I created “The Center for Banned and Departed Orgers." The place actually has no proper name, but that's as good a name as any…here's the whole story as I see it:

Some history:

It was called “QuaidBowl” for a while only because Quaid was upgrading his site and wanted to include a discussion forum as one of the new features—and I offered to provide him with my new BBS, which I had been working on in my spare time for the last year. Some of you may recall me posting about it several times in the past. I moved my work to his server and worked on it there for months. When some of the personal attacks began, Quaid asked that I remove his logo and move the site. I did…it was called “The Beta BBS” for a little while, then when Aero posted that funny thread about “The Center for Banned and Departed Orgers,” it seemed cute. Little did Aero know that there was such a place…though not everyone was banned, and not everyone was from the org.

As you’ve probably noticed, my system looks and works a lot like the org; this was deliberate. The org is far and away the best BBS software I’ve ever seen—not some crappy off-the-shelf BBS like NPGMC—Ben wrote it from scratch himself and I was always just totally blown away by his skills. I’ve posted as much many times. So I used the org as the “ideal model” of a BBS as I built my own, and I occasionally asked Ben a question or two about how he did such-and-such, and he was always very kind and generous with his wisdom. When it comes to programming, Ben knows some serious kung fu.

As my system began to take shape, I was ready to show it off and I needed some users to give the system a work-out. See how it performed under real-world conditions. I passed the link around; nobody came (lucky for them!)…or I figure if they did, they didn’t sign up and post anything because the place was a ghost-town; nothing to see and nobody to talk to. Quaid himself wouldn’t even post much as he is not much of a forum person; back in the day I tried to get him to join the org, but it didn’t take. So I continued to work on it, using his beta site as host, using his login system, colors, and logo to place the system in a “real” context, and I tested it mostly by posting and replying to myself, until it got to the point that it was overdue for some testing by real users.

Invitations, Offensive Jokes, and Personal Attacks:

IceNine was an easy choice. He and I are good forum friends, and he had been banned…it was great to hang out again, and to enjoy some of his classic comedy. And he posts a whole lot, which was good exercise for the software. He gets pretty raunchy at times, even downright mean, but that’s part of his style. I like sick humor. I like it when Kenny gets killed in every episode of South Park, too. IceNine is sorta my Eric Cartman—extremely offensive, but fucking hilarious. Of course none of you righteously offended people on the org would ever watch a scandalous show like South Park or The Family Guy—I mean, they devoted a whole funny episode to pedophilia—the worst of all taboos that you must never joke about! You’d think JediMaster had committed murder or something. Please…

The same goes for the racist humor. Some of it is actually funny, and I don’t buy this “you’re not supposed to laugh” bullshit just because it’s a racist joke. Tell me Chris Rock isn’t funny. During one of his later concerts, The Great Chris Rock once said: “What’s all this about Jews? Black people don’t hate Jews! Black people hate WHITE PEOPLE.” The entire audience lost it—too fucking hilarious. Comic genius!

Lose the double standard, folks—a good racial joke isn’t the end of the world. Of course not everything posted there was very funny. That’s obvious. Some of it was stupid. Some of the Michael Jackson jokes were just priceless though. What else…Quaid posted some Mexican jokes—well guess what? He’s 100% Mexican. See...we don’t have such hang-ups. Some of you do. That’s why this stuff was posted there, and not posted here.

Actually, I do blush when I realize that honestly good ladies like Sag10 or SensualMelody might have clicked on the dirty joke thread. Sigh…most of you people spewing righteous indignation are some of the most venomous folks on the org to begin with. But the actual classy women—I do feel bad for offending them. You weren’t meant to see that stuff. I’m sorry you did. It was guy stuff, cheap locker-room humor. I hope you understand…

Anyways, it was only about 2 or 3 weeks ago that I started adding people to keep us company—prior to that, nothing would be posted for days, there were so few of us posting there. Melissa was an obvious choice—she and I have always been on the same wavelength. Of course Matt found out, and was curious, so I created an account for him too. Aero was curious too—just one hour before the bomb dropped. Does that make him the devil too? C’mon…

I never imagined the place would be portayed as some kind of dark, evil place, but I guess it depends on what you saw and what you focused on. Some of the “hurtful” posts were coming from people you would expect, and no, the rest of us mostly ignored it, and I certainly didn’t moderate. Why bring Aaron or IceNine to a place only to moderate them? I certainly didn’t agree with everything that was posted, but I liked the fact people were just honest, warts and all. It did get pretty ugly in spots…

Aaron and Melissa went at it in my forum—and after Aaron called Melissa some nasty names 8 or 9 times, they seemed to come to an understanding and settle down. I had a feeling they would, with no moderation. You’re used to threads being locked anytime there’s a ruckus—well, it just wasn’t that kind of site.

I might have invited RD to come defend himself (let the two grown men settle it at my place ya know, no moderators—is that a horrible idea? Maybe it was…I dunno), but I figured he’d spill the beans, and as you can see, the org did not need this kind of gasoline thrown on its fire. Too late now. But IceNine hating RD? What else is new? Is that a surprise?

Aaron flaming Cborgman? So what? What else is new? You mean didn’t know that they dislike each other intensely? It happens on the org, it happened there—who really cares? Cborgman, do you really care?

I will not apologize for hosting an unmoderated forum. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. My mistake was in hosting something like this so close to the org, with those people, knowing that there are tensions running high here to begin with. It was irresponsible of me. Recklessly so. You all have a right to be upset with me about that. And so:

Some Apologies:

First and foremost, Ben. I feel like I’ve betrayed you. You’ve been nothing but kind and helpful to me and I've repaid you by causing your site to turn upsite down with drama. You deserve better. I’m sorry. Deactivate me if you wish—I am at your mercy.

Handclaps: You’re the one who’s had to pay the price for my thoughtless, reckless actions. I’ve made a mess of your forums and tripled your workload. I’m sorry…you deserve better too. I owe you one for this mess…

Matt: You got blindsided by all this, guilt by association, when you hardly came to my site at all, and now you’re in the hotseat for not clicking on every single thread from Pages 1-10 like the Uptown Reporter must have, digging for trouble. You got a bad rap in all this, and I’m sorry I didn’t think about the consequences of you being an org moderator.

Quaid: I seem to have dragged his domain name "quaidbowl.com" through the mud. You had never even heard of these people. I'm sorry.

To the org at large, whomever was genuinely offended by all this: I'm sorry for offending you. It started out rather harmless, and I won't apologize for the sick humor, but it was thoughtless of me to let it get out of control, to let it come to this, to mess up your org like this. I've caused so much headache around here...

To those who are acting all offended but really are just jumping on the bandwagon: No apology for you.

A few extra thoughts:

Apples, BorisFishPaw, Supa, and who ever came late to the party…you guys have nothing to apologize for—you saw the place as it was most days—just some old friends having fun including IceNine and Aaron being themselves. Not this very selective Uptown Reporter portrayal. If your lives on the org are ruined, then the org needs an enema. You’re good people. There's no shame in laughing at one of IceNine's better jokes.

Why didn't I stop it? It crossed my mind whenever people I consider friends were being attacked...but that wasn't the point; had I started deleting threads and accounts, it would be another ORG or NPGMC. Some of my friends dislike or hate each other and I'm not going to tell them what to think. No, I didn't condone the content of everything that was posted. But I liked not having any eggshells to tiptoe around.

I’m leaving the site down. Enough already.

I'll check back periodically and answer sincere questions (that rules you out, 2the9s )


EDIT: Spelling
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[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 13:59:25 PST 2004 by teller]

PEACE N B WiLD!!!

sincere?

So far 2 serious questions Thanks Teller for at least addressing this.

Thank you for being honest, Teller. I feel that the least you could have done was defended those who have befriended you on this site. Unmoderated forum or not. Racist jokes may be funny, IF the person telling them isn't racist OR gives the appearance of being racist.

I have a couple of questions for the moderators:

Is Matt going to recuse himself from moderating this thread?

Is theC going to be let back to respond to this?

Is MD7 going to be let back to respond to this?

Is Bliss going to be let back to respond to this?





And dude, it's spelled "statement."

My eyes are just watering with the sincerity of this post.

Whilst your explanations for setting up the site are well explained and legitimate it seems, your piss weak explanation for the filth that went on there is laughable.

Trying to compare the racial jokes on your site with those of Chris Rock are ridiculous. Chris Rock makes social commentary, he does not secretly post snide disgusting jokes. He does not talk of pulling people behind trucks etc.

You can make all the excuses in the world for your involvement in that filth, but you have been judged. Dont for a second think that many people here have not now seen the real you.

You have to live with yourself I guess.

2the9s said:

It is fucking INSANE that those people have been deactivated over this. They should be brought back immediately.

That post that TheC got banned on was just ridiculous.

bkw said:

I'm comfortable in my own skin, more or less. But you are welcome to judge me. I'm suddenly finding out who my friends really are.

True, none of those racist jokes compare to Chris Rock's genius. That wasn't the point--the point was that it was ok to make jokes.

The pulling behind the truck...I'm sure IceNine didn't really mean that. Well...I'm pretty sure he didn't, but that's his posting style. Graphic. I have no issues with it unless omeone actually thought it was a death threat or something. When he's talking about a complete stranger, it's pure comedy...when it's somebody you know and like, you sorta cringe. But that's the edge that is IceNine. i love him.

Well I agree with letting anyone banned back in to be able to say what they gotta say and get it out of their system. Hey, why not Bring Chemmie, Ice and Aaron back so that people are bashing the actual people they have a gripe with instead of scapegoating others who had nothing to do with anything they did on that site.

i think your kidding yourself if you think your the reason for matt's problems here.

and i miss me some icenine...send him my love...

Teller, I'm not here much nowadays. I've seen yesterday from the mirror sites some of what was said.

For what it's worth, I think J Dodson has the right approach.

http://www.prince.org/msg/100/79222

Also,

http://www.prince.org/msg...sg_1397593

And I think Chris Rock is just wrong.

sosgemini said:

Uh-oh. Don't mention the "I" word. Or you know what'll happen

Therapy said:

Now that ya mention it, I'm not a big Chris Rock fan, either.

teller said:

I honestly think any response would be lost on you.

Another suggestion...Even though this seems the proper forum, perhaps it should be moved to the General Forum so that it is in a more highly trafficed area. I think this is the first time I've ever been to this forum.

bkw said:

As is the "moderation" of all of this. I was once deactivated because I criticised the moderation of this site, by quoting a dictionary concerning the meaning of the word. A better word for what the volunteers do is "operating". Just like doctors, there are people who're good at it and people who suck at it.

Teller, u had me fooled. I liked u, but what u did is terrible and despicable, and the time u took to write this thread would have been better spent on apologising to the people affected by it. None of the people participating in that filth and hatred will be looked upon favourably by most of the org users who read the pertinent threads, especially u, who created and encouraged it. People are saying that the banned users posting on your site should be let back here, with the implied meaning that we wouldn't dare say what we've said about all of them to their cyberfaces, ie that we would behave like all of u have done. I always said my piece, just as I'm doing now.

"Pretty sure" doesn't cut it, not even halfway close. I said it on another thread and I'll say it again: I hope that everything all of the posters on QQQuaidbowl wished for to happen to others will happen to u. For real. Go away.

Btw, seems like I need a new keyboard. My Q key gets stuck sometimes.



Twocents typo edit.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 14:39:22 PST 2004 by Teacher]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

no..this crap needs to stay in this forum...that way the people who dont want to deal with the "drama" dont have to..

thats my number one beef with this site...*consistency*!! dansa kept a fan gathering post on the gd section but then deleted my picture from the family jamm...thats not consistent...and it was the only time i got sorta pissed off at a moderator...but hey, i moved on..

some people get their "site" discussion threads moved and deleted from the gd section and others dont...things got a proper place..use the rules and there wont be drama...if the moderation was consistent here im sure all the drama would disappear...if you think about it, the fact that rdhull still posts while icenine and chemmie and aaron are banned is a huge part of the current drama...the moderators arent consistent...

Teacher said:

Teacher, I don't really know you that well, but the fact that you wish death on people for real says a lot about you. At any rate, thanks for posting...I'm sure many folks will agree with you.

2the9s said:

Exactly.

If he cannot see that that joke was disgusting (bearing in mind the real-life hate crime that sparked the reference) then there is no hope for him.

bkw said:

I like disgusting jokes.

teller said:

Maybe it was just a "disgusting joke," oh abuser-of-intellect...

teller said:

Oh, so THAT'S what u were doing, wishing people dead! I was trying to flush that out, seems I succeeded. Well, it was all a joke, right? Harmless?

Two c's in succeeded edit. Long live the C edit.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 14:54:57 PST 2004 by Teacher]

thanks for telling us what happened. Personally, I'm not surprised by anything that you said and did not expect more from you. I've read many of your racial and political posts here on the org, as well as the racial and political posts of the others on that site, for quite some time so I wasn't shocked by the racist filth that was displayed there.


It just saddens me to realize that some people will say such things about people they don't even know. Or make such horrible jokes then say, "well chris rock does it!" Chris Rock does make racial jokes but what he does NOT do and will NEVER do is make racist jokes. He lampoons racial relations more than the races themselves. The joke that you partially quoted in your statement is a misrepresentation of his humor.

How can you name apples as one of the inncocent ones when she started a thread called 'I hate spades'? At the end of the thread she ridiculed african-americans for being upset about the racial slur because it is "no longer in the american vernacular." That's just as bad as saying that RDHull should be dragged behind a truck.

But really, that website just reminded me of what pathetic little people those former orgers are.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 14:57:26 PST 2004 by jessyMD32781]

2the9s said:

Well, these QQQuaidbowl people are very honest, isn't that what they're saying? So they shouldn't have any problem with honesty, since one of the major problems they seem to be having is the illusion that we wouldn't say the same things TO IceNine and Aaron as we're doing ABOUT them. I always told both of them they're worthless and have no place in humanity.

We all know they're chewing on the carpet in rage reading it though

Fucking typos edit. Long Live MD7 edit.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 15:05:23 PST 2004 by Teacher]

Teacher said:

They probably aren't mad at all...

What's it like to be intelligent but have no common sense teller?

You made your bed, lie in it.