Moved to site discussion.

Any race topic discussion is in p & r.

luv4u said:

BlackandRising said:

luv4u said:

Moved to site discussion.

Any race topic discussion is in p & r.

Race isn't politics; it's intimately intertwined with his art and who he was. If you guys don't want that discussion here, man up and just say it.

It has usually detrailed into discussing not the artist but simply the issue of race itself......... so if it goes that way it goes to p & r.

luv4u said:

BlackandRising said:

luv4u said: Race isn't politics; it's intimately intertwined with his art and who he was. If you guys don't want that discussion here, man up and just say it.

It has usually detrailed into discussing not the artist but simply the issue of race itself......... so if it goes that way it goes to p & r.

ok let's say that's the case; then why was the BLM and Van Jones thread simply deleted instead of moved to P&R? And from what I was reading, it was about Prince down to the last post that I read. I never felt this way about P.org, but the things I deal with in the workplace whilst being black are alive and well here on the org. If it was one or two threads, I could see; but all of the threads that I've seen have one constant; Oldfriends4sale. He interjects his opinion in a very heavy-handed way, and he participates in the "derailment" of said threads, and then at some point decides he's had enough and decides to delete the thread. I refuse to believe there's not one mod that can see this pattern. Be that as it may, as a Prince fan that has been one since 1979, I have never felt so out of place in a place about Prince as I do here, and it's double hurtful given that the man is no longer here, and I thought this would be the one place one could discuss Prince without fear of retribution for saying what was on one's mind about Prince.

BlackandRising said:

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said:

Race isn't politics; it's intimately intertwined with his art and who he was. If you guys don't want that discussion here, man up and just say it.

That's been happening for years here on threads discussed about Prince's race. I have no idea why it's an issue, when it's no secret he was a talented Black Americsn musician, who successfully crossed racial lines, but yes unfortunately it is not easy discussing race-related issues regarding Prince here. Im dutprised the Van Jones thread was still here after 10 posts. On the other hand, the positive thing since his passing, is hearing the information from some of his friends/associates, who let the public know how socially conscious and aware he was, and his concern about the present/future of the Black community, and all the various donations he has made to education, music and art programs, across the U.S., especially during the Welcome to America tour. He was an amazing artist. [Edited 6/5/16 17:12pm]

agreed, but what's so frustrating about this, is that even though more and more is coming out, there's outright denial here with regard to the bolded above that this is the case; as if what they dont' see as being verifiable by Prince's literal words, then these people are someone being untruthful. And it's usually one mod who very forcefully opines on this, and is typically the very reason these threads go where they do. Luv4u, if these threads are saved, I simply ask that they be read and then ask yourself the question as to why these threads spiral into something completely different that the OP. I mean, fuck, the irony here is that in my life, this is the ONE place where I feel that I'm somehow being brushed aside due to my race and simply wanting to discuss it, as it relates to Prince and who he was.

I agree with BlackandRising 100%. And like you, 2elijah, I was surprised that the Van Jones thread wasn't locked because the OP was race-baiting from the jump. [Take it up with the moderator that dealt with you via orgnotes, thanks snip - luv4u]

So as B&R said, luv4u, discussing Prince's race IS discussing his music. They were intertwined. However you all are trying to be crafty and move this thread that once again calls you moderators out on your allowing/sanctioning the perpetuation of the aforementioned bigotry to the Site Discussion forum where it will escape the eyes of 95% of people who come here to post.

Again, I'm apalled at such treatment of a Black artist when Black people try to discuss the impact P had as a Black man on our community. This is beyond hypocritical and if her were still here and were aware of this, he'd probably send the org a fucking cease and desist letter just to eradicated this foolishness.

BlackandRising said:

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said: That's been happening for years here on threads discussed about Prince's race. I have no idea why it's an issue, when it's no secret he was a talented Black Americsn musician, who successfully crossed racial lines, but yes unfortunately it is not easy discussing race-related issues regarding Prince here. Im dutprised the Van Jones thread was still here after 10 posts. On the other hand, the positive thing since his passing, is hearing the information from some of his friends/associates, who let the public know how socially conscious and aware he was, and his concern about the present/future of the Black community, and all the various donations he has made to education, music and art programs, across the U.S., especially during the Welcome to America tour. He was an amazing artist. [Edited 6/5/16 17:12pm]

agreed, but what's so frustrating about this, is that even though more and more is coming out, there's outright denial here with regard to the bolded above that this is the case; as if what they dont' see as being verifiable by Prince's literal words, then these people are someone being untruthful. And it's usually one mod who very forcefully opines on this, and is typically the very reason these threads go where they do. Luv4u, if these threads are saved, I simply ask that they be read and then ask yourself the question as to why these threads spiral into something completely different that the OP. I mean, fuck, the irony here is that in my life, this is the ONE place where I feel that I'm somehow being brushed aside due to my race and simply wanting to discuss it, as it relates to Prince and who he was.

BlackandRising said:

Though your response wasn't to me, 2elijah, thank you for your words. People like to pretend that we are merely trying to stir up confusion when all we are asking for is simple acknowledgement and respect (such as that displayed within your post.) So again, thanks for displaying basic common sense and most importantly a sense of humanity! Peace and blessings.

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said:

agreed, but what's so frustrating about this, is that even though more and more is coming out, there's outright denial here with regard to the bolded above that this is the case; as if what they dont' see as being verifiable by Prince's literal words, then these people are someone being untruthful. And it's usually one mod who very forcefully opines on this, and is typically the very reason these threads go where they do. Luv4u, if these threads are saved, I simply ask that they be read and then ask yourself the question as to why these threads spiral into something completely different that the OP. I mean, fuck, the irony here is that in my life, this is the ONE place where I feel that I'm somehow being brushed aside due to my race and simply wanting to discuss it, as it relates to Prince and who he was.

I hear you and just like you feel your race is being brushed aside, it's almost the same as what some fans do regarding when Prince's race is discussed, and not accepting that at sometime in his life and given the era of his childhood, Prince (like other Black musicians and Black Americans) experienced some form of racial prejudices, because of his race, sometime in his and his family's life. I suppose that is why Prince made it clear in his own way, why he refused to allow the music industry to label him as a Black artist only capable of playing r&b music, when his music skills went beyond that, but I think some fans, for selfish reasons, mistook that attitude as though Prince was denying his race, when it appears he was basically sending the message, that all Black musicians' skills are not limited to one form of music, and he wasn't going to allow anyone to limit his music skills, and he succeeded in proving that, opening doors for other Black musicians to not buy into the 'limitation' tactics of the music industry. Anyway, I will stop there before one of the mods claim this is off-topic, lol, but I do get where you are coming from when it involves discussing Prince, race and his associations/interests/concerns and contributions to the Black community. Not easy to discuss on this site, as most of those threads get deleted unfortunately. [Edited 6/5/16 17:49pm]

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said:

agreed, but what's so frustrating about this, is that even though more and more is coming out, there's outright denial here with regard to the bolded above that this is the case; as if what they dont' see as being verifiable by Prince's literal words, then these people are someone being untruthful. And it's usually one mod who very forcefully opines on this, and is typically the very reason these threads go where they do. Luv4u, if these threads are saved, I simply ask that they be read and then ask yourself the question as to why these threads spiral into something completely different that the OP. I mean, fuck, the irony here is that in my life, this is the ONE place where I feel that I'm somehow being brushed aside due to my race and simply wanting to discuss it, as it relates to Prince and who he was.

I hear you and just like you feel your race is being brushed aside, it's almost the same as what some fans do regarding when Prince's race is discussed, and not accepting that at sometime in his life and given the era of his childhood, Prince (like other Black musicians and Black Americans) experienced some form of racial prejudices, because of his race, sometime in his and his family's life. I suppose that is why Prince made it clear in his own way, why he refused to allow the music industry to label him as a Black artist only capable of playing r&b music, when his music skills went beyond that, but I think some fans, for selfish reasons, mistook that attitude as though Prince was denying his race, when it appears he was basically sending the message, that all Black musicians' skills are not limited to one form of music, and he wasn't going to allow anyone to limit his music skills, and he succeeded in proving that, opening doors for other Black musicians to not buy into the 'limitation' tactics of the music industry. Anyway, I will stop there before one of the mods claim this is off-topic, lol, but I do get where you are coming from when it involves discussing Prince, race and his associations/interests/concerns and contributions to the Black community. Not easy to discuss on this site, as most of those threads get deleted unfortunately. [Edited 6/5/16 17:49pm]

Thanks to you both for articulating my exact feelings on this issue. I'm relatively new to this site and was drawn because I believed it would be a good place to connect with loyal Prince fam who I believed were like me, deeply grieving the Greatest musician, singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist Of All Time. Prince also was a generous humanitarian who gave to many causes, the UNCF, BLM #YesWeCode, to name a mere few.

That he embraced his blackness and championed black issues seems to unsettle some posters - and even moderators - here. I won't rehash the same debate that apparently led to the deletion of the Van Jones BLM thread, but it's almost like some posters here want Prince to be colorless/non-racial and non-threatening, rather than the complex black man he actually was. And that's really troubling to me. What's worse, some of the most strident discourse has come from a moderator, who at the same times waggles a finger at posters admonishing similar behavior/rhetoric.

It's uneven moderation, IMO. If frank and honest discussions regarding race and socio-political movements Prince supported aren't encouraged/wanted on this site, then language stating such needs to be prominently displayed and offending threads immediately deleted, rather than allowing them go on ad naseuem with some of the most ridiculous, racist, offensive comments that received NO moderation.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

1. There are members here who should know by now that if a thread is HIDDEN, that it means some issue of moderation came up. Which means we hide the thread so no one else can post or respond to the thing that may be in need of moderation, as we look into if what is reported is violating the rules.
Any member that has been here more than a year actively should know this.

2. The OP of the thread is always notified what and why.

3. A moderator unrelated to the issue is always asked to look into the request of moderation and take care of it one way or another.

4. Make sure you have not crossed the lines of the Forum rules that you agreed to before you complain about what you think is or is not fair.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

1. There are members here who should know by now that if a thread is HIDDEN, that it means some issue of moderation came up. Which means we hide the thread so no one else can post or respond to the thing that may be in need of moderation, as we look into if what is reported is violating the rules.
Any member that has been here more than a year actively should know this.

2. The OP of the thread is always notified what and why.

3. A moderator unrelated to the issue is always asked to look into the request of moderation and take care of it one way or another.

4. Make sure you have not crossed the lines of the Forum rules that you agreed to before you complain about what you think is or is not fair.

1. Thanks for sharing this info, as I was unaware of this practice. I'm just curious at what point in that thread a moderation issue developed, since a moderator - you OldFriends4Sale - was an active, vocal participant.

2. Good policy.

3. Good policy.

4. Interesting.

Baduizm said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

1. There are members here who should know by now that if a thread is HIDDEN, that it means some issue of moderation came up. Which means we hide the thread so no one else can post or respond to the thing that may be in need of moderation, as we look into if what is reported is violating the rules.
Any member that has been here more than a year actively should know this.

2. The OP of the thread is always notified what and why.

3. A moderator unrelated to the issue is always asked to look into the request of moderation and take care of it one way or another.

4. Make sure you have not crossed the lines of the Forum rules that you agreed to before you complain about what you think is or is not fair.

1. Thanks for sharing this info, as I was unaware of this practice. I'm just curious at what point in that thread a moderation issue developed, since a moderator - you OldFriends4Sale - was an active, vocal participant.

2. Good policy.

3. Good policy.

4. Interesting.

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

.

We explain over and over and over, to people who have been her 5+ years that we hide a thread when anyone issues a request of moderation(outside of wrong forum/duplicate). And people still get on their rant and say we are being unfair.

.

Yes, I know you are a new member and it takes a bit of time to understand how that works especially if you haven't created a thread that had to be moderated.
There was a member who was viciously attacked for their opinion,

.

and the big one that finally required a hiding was 5-6 back to back posts by a member attack the Org about Tyka, YOU people are disgusting...Yet the moment the man isn't here to potentially read your works through lurking, and otherwise standup and defend himself, you all:

topics that had nothing to do with the thread just a disgusting rant that 100% violate forum rules.

This is just the opening of 6 consecutive posts about all of this. And attack the site moderators and making racial attacks.

First, who the fuck are you to even imagine

HE DIDN'T DIG YOU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM...

But you muthafuckas will cry over a damn lion in Africa

Just another off-beat idiot who wishes he could dance to the funk.

internally you have to admit that either you're lacking in normal-level adult intelligence or you're simply trolling because you think it's funny and cute.

.
So people here saying the thread is shut down because of race and we don't want anyone to talk about it etc is BS this thread went 7 pages. There is another thread about Prince and Blackness that is 10+ pages and STILL OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. Even with a lot of personal attacks and Rule #1 violations. Just to prove the false accusations are not the case. People break the rules and then when a post get's snipped a thread hidden for violation or locked they accuse the Org or censorship or not letting people discuss race. When the problem is them and the attitudes. Race & Religion is discussed over and over in the P&R forum. So the accusations get tired. If people stopped violating Rule #1 not to mention some of the others, these discussions would not flame up and burn until they get locked.

so when people say 'threads get locked because 'they' don't want us to talk about race...
That isn't the problem, what your read above is the reason. Oversensitive character attacks and vile inflamatory posts get discussions locked. Who wants to talk to that? The same issues tend to happen with Religion too. P&R is the worst when it comes to moderation issues, because people don't know how to discuss ideals without turning it on the person.
.
And if this thread continues it it will get locked too.

I know you are a new member, so this is a lot of history.

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

1. There are members here who should know by now that if a thread is HIDDEN, that it means some issue of moderation came up. Which means we hide the thread so no one else can post or respond to the thing that may be in need of moderation, as we look into if what is reported is violating the rules.
Any member that has been here more than a year actively should know this.

2. The OP of the thread is always notified what and why.

3. A moderator unrelated to the issue is always asked to look into the request of moderation and take care of it one way or another.

4. Make sure you have not crossed the lines of the Forum rules that you agreed to before you complain about what you think is or is not fair.

Please. There have been many threads that have disappeared down the proverbial memory hole, never to be seen again. And again, it's odd that these threads ALWAYS end up being "hidden" at some point. I rarely see them return. Be that as it may, I stand by my points about why threads like this, that start amicably enough, end up requiring some sort of moderation, or being "hidden".

There are many reason that you will never know.
1. many times the OP requests that they don't return or kept it locked

2. thread reappear all the time, it may depend on when the thread is finally looked at or finished being moderated. All it takes is 1 hour for that thread to be bumped to the 3rd page. Where because of the amount of discussion being had and new thread created, people just don't go back to them.

3. Nothing odd about it, you've been here too long to not know these threads(here I am having to repeat the same thing over again) get hidden for moderation issues. + as we ask members please do not just report a thread and expect us to look through, what can be 10 - 20 pages of posts. We don't get paid to do this, WE all have very active lives as well. And make us search for the issues. THEN we have to find every thread that someone replied to the offending posts and clean those up.

4. Sometimes the thread run their course.

5.I tried to explain to you in the other thread that when people respond emotionally and get sensitive to a post that is about ideals, they then turn and reply personally. And attack members character and persons is a violation against the rules. But you don't seem to get it.

6. You don't even know why the thread was hidden, and if you do and agree with it then that again is why these thread usually flame up and end up in hidden or lock land.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Baduizm said:

1. Thanks for sharing this info, as I was unaware of this practice. I'm just curious at what point in that thread a moderation issue developed, since a moderator - you OldFriends4Sale - was an active, vocal participant.

2. Good policy.

3. Good policy.

4. Interesting.

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

.

We explain over and over and over, to people who have been her 5+ years that we hide a thread when anyone issues a request of moderation(outside of wrong forum/duplicate). And people still get on their rant and say we are being unfair.

.

Yes, I know you are a new member and it takes a bit of time to understand how that works especially if you haven't created a thread that had to be moderated.
There was a member who was viciously attacked for their opinion,

.

and the big one that finally required a hiding was 5-6 back to back posts by a member attack the Org about Tyka, YOU people are disgusting...Yet the moment the man isn't here to potentially read your works through lurking, and otherwise standup and defend himself, you all:

1. Bash his full-blooded sister because of her looks

2. Trash his close friends like Sheila who have known him damn-near 40 years.

3. Are quick to suddenly label him as a drug addict when the truth is one could 'accidentally' OD in myriad ways.

4. Try to deny Prince's blackness and assert that he cared little about the community because he loved "all" people, regardless of color.

topics that had nothing to do with the thread just a disgusting rant that 100% violate forum rules.

This is just the opening of 6 consecutive posts about all of this. And attack the site moderators and making racial attacks.

First, who the fuck are you to even imagine

HE DIDN'T DIG YOU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM...

But you muthafuckas will cry over a damn lion in Africa

Just another off-beat idiot who wishes he could dance to the funk.

internally you have to admit that either you're lacking in normal-level adult intelligence or you're simply trolling because you think it's funny and cute.

.
So people here saying the thread is shut down because of race and we don't want anyone to talk about it etc is BS this thread went 7 pages. There is another thread about Prince and Blackness that is 10+ pages and STILL OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. Even with a lot of personal attacks and Rule #1 violations. Just to prove the false accusations are not the case. People break the rules and then when a post get's snipped a thread hidden for violation or locked they accuse the Org or censorship or not letting people discuss race. When the problem is them and the attitudes. Race & Religion is discussed over and over in the P&R forum. So the accusations get tired. If people stopped violating Rule #1 not to mention some of the others, these discussions would not flame up and burn until they get locked.

so when people say 'threads get locked because 'they' don't want us to talk about race...
That isn't the problem, what your read above is the reason. Oversensitive character attacks and vile inflamatory posts get discussions locked. Who wants to talk to that? The same issues tend to happen with Religion too. P&R is the worst when it comes to moderation issues, because people don't know how to discuss ideals without turning it on the person.
.
And if this thread continues it it will get locked too.

I know you are a new member, so this is a lot of history.

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

Firstly, I haven't created any threads that were hidden. I created this thread in another forum, and another moderator moved it here because somehow she didn't feel that it was related to Prince and his music. I created it in response to yet another discusison of race (BLM/Van Jones) that you, yet again, are deeply involved in, that, like other threads discussing race that you were deeply involved in, disappeared again. My entire point in all of this? Maybe mods that post in these threads should take a long, hard look at what they post, how it's received, and, hey, maybe consider that it's their posts that cause these threads to descend into chaos that requires moderation.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Please. There have been many threads that have disappeared down the proverbial memory hole, never to be seen again. And again, it's odd that these threads ALWAYS end up being "hidden" at some point. I rarely see them return. Be that as it may, I stand by my points about why threads like this, that start amicably enough, end up requiring some sort of moderation, or being "hidden".

There are many reason that you will never know.
1. many times the OP requests that they don't return or kept it locked

2. thread reappear all the time, it may depend on when the thread is finally looked at or finished being moderated. All it takes is 1 hour for that thread to be bumped to the 3rd page. Where because of the amount of discussion being had and new thread created, people just don't go back to them.

3. Nothing odd about it, you've been here too long to not know these threads(here I am having to repeat the same thing over again) get hidden for moderation issues. + as we ask members please do not just report a thread and expect us to look through, what can be 10 - 20 pages of posts. We don't get paid to do this, WE all have very active lives as well. And make us search for the issues. THEN we have to find every thread that someone replied to the offending posts and clean those up.

4. Sometimes the thread run their course.

5.I tried to explain to you in the other thread that when people respond emotionally and get sensitive to a post that is about ideals, they then turn and reply personally. And attack members character and persons is a violation against the rules. But you don't seem to get it.

6. You don't even know why the thread was hidden, and if you do and agree with it then that again is why these thread usually flame up and end up in hidden or lock land.

first of all, I don't sit here 24/7 to remember all of these rules, that at the end of the day don't matter, given your point #5, i.e., the subjective nature with which they are applied. Regarding people posting emotionally and getting sensitive, again, you post incessantly in these threads and push your agenda, your ideals. It's like no one is allowed to discuss any nauance that hasn't been literally uttered by Prince. In your mind, if it hasn't, it's not the case. we are wrong, you are right. Here's an idea; go through that thread post by post and review the timeline from the start to where it looks like people might be getting sensitive, abour a topic that, well, people are sensitive about. it kind of forces people at some point to take a defensive stance based on the things you say. I don't know, maybe that's your intent in posting what you do.

#6, I dont' need to know why it's hidden, all I know is that every single thread that is based on race and Prince, and that you post in to the nth degree, at some point is locked/hidden/deleted.

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There are many reason that you will never know.
1. many times the OP requests that they don't return or kept it locked

2. thread reappear all the time, it may depend on when the thread is finally looked at or finished being moderated. All it takes is 1 hour for that thread to be bumped to the 3rd page. Where because of the amount of discussion being had and new thread created, people just don't go back to them.

3. Nothing odd about it, you've been here too long to not know these threads(here I am having to repeat the same thing over again) get hidden for moderation issues. + as we ask members please do not just report a thread and expect us to look through, what can be 10 - 20 pages of posts. We don't get paid to do this, WE all have very active lives as well. And make us search for the issues. THEN we have to find every thread that someone replied to the offending posts and clean those up.

4. Sometimes the thread run their course.

5.I tried to explain to you in the other thread that when people respond emotionally and get sensitive to a post that is about ideals, they then turn and reply personally. And attack members character and persons is a violation against the rules. But you don't seem to get it.

6. You don't even know why the thread was hidden, and if you do and agree with it then that again is why these thread usually flame up and end up in hidden or lock land.

first of all, I don't sit here 24/7 to remember all of these rules, that at the end of the day don't matter, given your point #5, i.e., the subjective nature with which they are applied. Regarding people posting emotionally and getting sensitive, again, you post incessantly in these threads and push your agenda, your ideals. It's like no one is allowed to discuss any nauance that hasn't been literally uttered by Prince. In your mind, if it hasn't, it's not the case. we are wrong, you are right. Here's an idea; go through that thread post by post and review the timeline from the start to where it looks like people might be getting sensitive, abour a topic that, well, people are sensitive about. it kind of forces people at some point to take a defensive stance based on the things you say. I don't know, maybe that's your intent in posting what you do.

#6, I dont' need to know why it's hidden, all I know is that every single thread that is based on race and Prince, and that you post in to the nth degree, at some point is locked/hidden/deleted.

#1 You agreed to the RULES. You need to memorize them, or stop accusing the ORg of treating you unfairly if you are breaking the rules because you choose not to follow the rules that YOU agreed to.
Go get a credit card or a license and break the rules and see if it is OK because you didn't read the rules you agreed to when you got your credit card, loan, license, rental agreement, mortgage or marriage certificate. excuses?

.

THAT DON"T MATTER? REALLY? AT THE END OF THE DAY, you can do whatever you want in your home and in your mind, BUT when you come onto the ORG You agreed to rules you have to follow. And you don't get to cry victim or racism or censorship if YOU break the rules that YOU agreed to just because you don't have the time to read the rules that YOU agreed to when you joined the org.

.

No, you don't have to get defensive. No one is forcing you to do anything. That is YOUR choice to respond emotionally. Don't blame me because I post my opinion about a topic NOT ANY MEMBER.

A GOOD IDEA rule #1 discuss ideals NOT persons.

.

If you don't need to know why it is hidden then STOP accusing the Org and moderators of doing something wrong or underhanded. Stop scapegoating on why something is happening, because you don't know why it is happening. Stop creating conspiracy issues that are NOT happening.

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

.

We explain over and over and over, to people who have been her 5+ years that we hide a thread when anyone issues a request of moderation(outside of wrong forum/duplicate). And people still get on their rant and say we are being unfair.

.

Yes, I know you are a new member and it takes a bit of time to understand how that works especially if you haven't created a thread that had to be moderated.
There was a member who was viciously attacked for their opinion,

.

and the big one that finally required a hiding was 5-6 back to back posts by a member attack the Org about Tyka, YOU people are disgusting...Yet the moment the man isn't here to potentially read your works through lurking, and otherwise standup and defend himself, you all:

1. Bash his full-blooded sister because of her looks

2. Trash his close friends like Sheila who have known him damn-near 40 years.

3. Are quick to suddenly label him as a drug addict when the truth is one could 'accidentally' OD in myriad ways.

4. Try to deny Prince's blackness and assert that he cared little about the community because he loved "all" people, regardless of color.

topics that had nothing to do with the thread just a disgusting rant that 100% violate forum rules.

This is just the opening of 6 consecutive posts about all of this. And attack the site moderators and making racial attacks.

First, who the fuck are you to even imagine

HE DIDN'T DIG YOU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM...

But you muthafuckas will cry over a damn lion in Africa

Just another off-beat idiot who wishes he could dance to the funk.

internally you have to admit that either you're lacking in normal-level adult intelligence or you're simply trolling because you think it's funny and cute.

.
So people here saying the thread is shut down because of race and we don't want anyone to talk about it etc is BS this thread went 7 pages. There is another thread about Prince and Blackness that is 10+ pages and STILL OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. Even with a lot of personal attacks and Rule #1 violations. Just to prove the false accusations are not the case. People break the rules and then when a post get's snipped a thread hidden for violation or locked they accuse the Org or censorship or not letting people discuss race. When the problem is them and the attitudes. Race & Religion is discussed over and over in the P&R forum. So the accusations get tired. If people stopped violating Rule #1 not to mention some of the others, these discussions would not flame up and burn until they get locked.

so when people say 'threads get locked because 'they' don't want us to talk about race...
That isn't the problem, what your read above is the reason. Oversensitive character attacks and vile inflamatory posts get discussions locked. Who wants to talk to that? The same issues tend to happen with Religion too. P&R is the worst when it comes to moderation issues, because people don't know how to discuss ideals without turning it on the person.
.
And if this thread continues it it will get locked too.

I know you are a new member, so this is a lot of history.

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

Firstly, I haven't created any threads that were hidden. I created this thread in another forum, and another moderator moved it here because somehow she didn't feel that it was related to Prince and his music. I created it in response to yet another discusison of race (BLM/Van Jones) that you, yet again, are deeply involved in, that, like other threads discussing race that you were deeply involved in, disappeared again. My entire point in all of this? Maybe mods that post in these threads should take a long, hard look at what they post, how it's received, and, hey, maybe consider that it's their posts that cause these threads to descend into chaos that requires moderation.

WHAT??
Did You Not Create a Thread on:Thread started 06/05/16 4:09pm

AUTHOR: BlackandRising

Did you not create a thread in the PMM called

We March, Race, Black Muse - Princes songs regarding race

OldFriends4Sale said:

BlackandRising said:

I don't know if the thread we are directly talking about is the one BlackandRising is refering to since he did not originate it. He created a thread that was hidden recently. Which according to group policy rules he is to communicate with the Moderator who hid he thread privately and not make a public discussion about it. Which people usually don't follow the rules they agreed to when joining the site in too many of these circumstances. That alone can get a thread locked or hidden.

Firstly, I haven't created any threads that were hidden. I created this thread in another forum, and another moderator moved it here because somehow she didn't feel that it was related to Prince and his music. I created it in response to yet another discusison of race (BLM/Van Jones) that you, yet again, are deeply involved in, that, like other threads discussing race that you were deeply involved in, disappeared again. My entire point in all of this? Maybe mods that post in these threads should take a long, hard look at what they post, how it's received, and, hey, maybe consider that it's their posts that cause these threads to descend into chaos that requires moderation.

WHAT??
Did You Not Create a Thread on:Thread started 06/05/16 4:09pm

AUTHOR: BlackandRising

Did you not create a thread in the PMM called

We March, Race, Black Muse - Princes songs regarding race

Who here listens to Prince's songs concerning race? If you do and understand where he was coming from, check it out:
It's getting very disheartening to see threads that these particular songs speak to, be arbitrarily deleted for seemingly no other reason than one persons opinion of the subject matter. To have speech literally censored on the whims of one person's thought in threads regarding Prince's race is just not fair, right, equitable, etc. I have contacted Ben to this effect to no avail. If you feel the same, regardless of where you stand on the issue, but feel that your right to state an opinion, debate, etc., is more important than someone's feelings as to what's getting too heavy or whatever, I implore you to speak up. This is simply not right and I don't think Prince would want a topic like this swept under the rug like it always is on Prince.org.

luv4u clearly stated that thread was deleted simply because it contained the same basic information as this thread. But I'm not referencing that thread here in any way or calling anyone out publicy for deleting it. I sent you a note that speaks the the confusion that becomes inherent when trying to decipher what is what regarding threads/posts.

Baduizm said:

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said: I hear you and just like you feel your race is being brushed aside, it's almost the same as what some fans do regarding when Prince's race is discussed, and not accepting that at sometime in his life and given the era of his childhood, Prince (like other Black musicians and Black Americans) experienced some form of racial prejudices, because of his race, sometime in his and his family's life. I suppose that is why Prince made it clear in his own way, why he refused to allow the music industry to label him as a Black artist only capable of playing r&b music, when his music skills went beyond that, but I think some fans, for selfish reasons, mistook that attitude as though Prince was denying his race, when it appears he was basically sending the message, that all Black musicians' skills are not limited to one form of music, and he wasn't going to allow anyone to limit his music skills, and he succeeded in proving that, opening doors for other Black musicians to not buy into the 'limitation' tactics of the music industry. Anyway, I will stop there before one of the mods claim this is off-topic, lol, but I do get where you are coming from when it involves discussing Prince, race and his associations/interests/concerns and contributions to the Black community. Not easy to discuss on this site, as most of those threads get deleted unfortunately. [Edited 6/5/16 17:49pm]

Thanks to you both for articulating my exact feelings on this issue. I'm relatively new to this site and was drawn because I believed it would be a good place to connect with loyal Prince fam who I believed were like me, deeply grieving the Greatest musician, singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist Of All Time. Prince also was a generous humanitarian who gave to many causes, the UNCF, BLM #YesWeCode, to name a mere few.

That he embraced his blackness and championed black issues seems to unsettle some posters - and even moderators - here. I won't rehash the same debate that apparently led to the deletion of the Van Jones BLM thread, but it's almost like some posters here want Prince to be colorless/non-racial and non-threatening, rather than the complex black man he actually was. And that's really troubling to me. What's worse, some of the most strident discourse has come from a moderator, who at the same times waggles a finger at posters admonishing similar behavior/rhetoric.

It's uneven moderation, IMO. If frank and honest discussions regarding race and socio-political movements Prince supported aren't encouraged/wanted on this site, then language stating such needs to be prominently displayed and offending threads immediately deleted, rather than allowing them go on ad naseuem with some of the most ridiculous, racist, offensive comments that received NO moderation.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

And since you are 'new' here. let me give my 2 cents. We all have a right to discuss topics. We all have a right to discussion ideals. Whether you I or anyone else likes it or not. No matter the topic(unless it is something against forum rules or viewing Princes dead body) But we don't get to cuss out other people, we don't get to character assassinate other members/mods we don't get to attack others on their ideals. And we don't get to attack the Org. And this Mod did not attack anyone on their ideals. There is a HUGE difference in discussing topics/beliefs/ideal vs trying to psychoanalyze another member/mod

And I NEVER moderated anyone in those threads. Any issue of Moderation that needs to be dealt with I defer to another mod who is neutral. So there is no UNEVEN modertion that happened.

And because you are 'new' here, you should have hit the button for request for moderation if you see things you know according to the rules should be looked at.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BlackandRising said:

first of all, I don't sit here 24/7 to remember all of these rules, that at the end of the day don't matter, given your point #5, i.e., the subjective nature with which they are applied. Regarding people posting emotionally and getting sensitive, again, you post incessantly in these threads and push your agenda, your ideals. It's like no one is allowed to discuss any nauance that hasn't been literally uttered by Prince. In your mind, if it hasn't, it's not the case. we are wrong, you are right. Here's an idea; go through that thread post by post and review the timeline from the start to where it looks like people might be getting sensitive, abour a topic that, well, people are sensitive about. it kind of forces people at some point to take a defensive stance based on the things you say. I don't know, maybe that's your intent in posting what you do.

#6, I dont' need to know why it's hidden, all I know is that every single thread that is based on race and Prince, and that you post in to the nth degree, at some point is locked/hidden/deleted.

#1 You agreed to the RULES. You need to memorize them, or stop accusing the ORg of treating you unfairly if you are breaking the rules because you choose not to follow the rules that YOU agreed to.
Go get a credit card or a license and break the rules and see if it is OK because you didn't read the rules you agreed to when you got your credit card, loan, license, rental agreement, mortgage or marriage certificate. excuses?

.

THAT DON"T MATTER? REALLY? AT THE END OF THE DAY, you can do whatever you want in your home and in your mind, BUT when you come onto the ORG You agreed to rules you have to follow. And you don't get to cry victim or racism or censorship if YOU break the rules that YOU agreed to just because you don't have the time to read the rules that YOU agreed to when you joined the org.

.

No, you don't have to get defensive. No one is forcing you to do anything. That is YOUR choice to respond emotionally. Don't blame me because I post my opinion about a topic NOT ANY MEMBER.

A GOOD IDEA rule #1 discuss ideals NOT persons.

.

If you don't need to know why it is hidden then STOP accusing the Org and moderators of doing something wrong or underhanded. Stop scapegoating on why something is happening, because you don't know why it is happening. Stop creating conspiracy issues that are NOT happening.

tell me what rules I broke. See, your condescending approach here is what I'm referring to. but please, objectively point to where I broke a rule.

Baduizm said:

Baduizm said:

2elijah said:

BlackandRising said: I hear you and just like you feel your race is being brushed aside, it's almost the same as what some fans do regarding when Prince's race is discussed, and not accepting that at sometime in his life and given the era of his childhood, Prince (like other Black musicians and Black Americans) experienced some form of racial prejudices, because of his race, sometime in his and his family's life. I suppose that is why Prince made it clear in his own way, why he refused to allow the music industry to label him as a Black artist only capable of playing r&b music, when his music skills went beyond that, but I think some fans, for selfish reasons, mistook that attitude as though Prince was denying his race, when it appears he was basically sending the message, that all Black musicians' skills are not limited to one form of music, and he wasn't going to allow anyone to limit his music skills, and he succeeded in proving that, opening doors for other Black musicians to not buy into the 'limitation' tactics of the music industry. Anyway, I will stop there before one of the mods claim this is off-topic, lol, but I do get where you are coming from when it involves discussing Prince, race and his associations/interests/concerns and contributions to the Black community. Not easy to discuss on this site, as most of those threads get deleted unfortunately. [Edited 6/5/16 17:49pm]

Thanks to you both for articulating my exact feelings on this issue. I'm relatively new to this site and was drawn because I believed it would be a good place to connect with loyal Prince fam who I believed were like me, deeply grieving the Greatest musician, singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist Of All Time. Prince also was a generous humanitarian who gave to many causes, the UNCF, BLM #YesWeCode, to name a mere few.

That he embraced his blackness and championed black issues seems to unsettle some posters - and even moderators - here. I won't rehash the same debate that apparently led to the deletion of the Van Jones BLM thread, but it's almost like some posters here want Prince to be colorless/non-racial and non-threatening, rather than the complex black man he actually was. And that's really troubling to me. What's worse, some of the most strident discourse has come from a moderator, who at the same times waggles a finger at posters admonishing similar behavior/rhetoric.

It's uneven moderation, IMO. If frank and honest discussions regarding race and socio-political movements Prince supported aren't encouraged/wanted on this site, then language stating such needs to be prominently displayed and offending threads immediately deleted, rather than allowing them go on ad naseuem with some of the most ridiculous, racist, offensive comments that received NO moderation.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

We have a history on the org of people derailing, disrupting and minimizing certain types of threads. The same people routinely manufacture drama on race threads as a pretext to get them locked or deleted and anybody who complains risks getting banned.

Prince has never been allowed to define himself as he sees fit on this site. He must forever remain racially, sexually, socially and spiritually ambiguous or people go into crisis. There are people who have a pathological need to fetishize Prince and project their fantasies onto him and anytime he steps outside of that bubble they freak out and attack his friends, his hair, his work in support of causes they don't approve of, his faith, or anything that doesn't agree with their imagined view of him, even to the point of pretending they know who his friends are or accusing those friends of extortion.

One person even went so far as to suggest that Prince's support of BLM and "the hood" was the reason he was no longer with us and absolutely nothing was done about it. The same individual routinely makes up all kinds of cruel thngs to say in violation of the site rules and noting is ever done.

This isn't new, it's been going on for years.

BlackandRising said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

#1 You agreed to the RULES. You need to memorize them, or stop accusing the ORg of treating you unfairly if you are breaking the rules because you choose not to follow the rules that YOU agreed to.
Go get a credit card or a license and break the rules and see if it is OK because you didn't read the rules you agreed to when you got your credit card, loan, license, rental agreement, mortgage or marriage certificate. excuses?

.

THAT DON"T MATTER? REALLY? AT THE END OF THE DAY, you can do whatever you want in your home and in your mind, BUT when you come onto the ORG You agreed to rules you have to follow. And you don't get to cry victim or racism or censorship if YOU break the rules that YOU agreed to just because you don't have the time to read the rules that YOU agreed to when you joined the org.

.

No, you don't have to get defensive. No one is forcing you to do anything. That is YOUR choice to respond emotionally. Don't blame me because I post my opinion about a topic NOT ANY MEMBER.

A GOOD IDEA rule #1 discuss ideals NOT persons.

.

If you don't need to know why it is hidden then STOP accusing the Org and moderators of doing something wrong or underhanded. Stop scapegoating on why something is happening, because you don't know why it is happening. Stop creating conspiracy issues that are NOT happening.

tell me what rules I broke. See, your condescending approach here is what I'm referring to. but please, objectively point to where I broke a rule.

Discuss that with OF4S via orgnotes, thanks.

2elijah said:

Baduizm said:

Thanks to you both for articulating my exact feelings on this issue. I'm relatively new to this site and was drawn because I believed it would be a good place to connect with loyal Prince fam who I believed were like me, deeply grieving the Greatest musician, singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist Of All Time. Prince also was a generous humanitarian who gave to many causes, the UNCF, BLM #YesWeCode, to name a mere few.

That he embraced his blackness and championed black issues seems to unsettle some posters - and even moderators - here. I won't rehash the same debate that apparently led to the deletion of the Van Jones BLM thread, but it's almost like some posters here want Prince to be colorless/non-racial and non-threatening, rather than the complex black man he actually was. And that's really troubling to me. What's worse, some of the most strident discourse has come from a moderator, who at the same times waggles a finger at posters admonishing similar behavior/rhetoric.

It's uneven moderation, IMO. If frank and honest discussions regarding race and socio-political movements Prince supported aren't encouraged/wanted on this site, then language stating such needs to be prominently displayed and offending threads immediately deleted, rather than allowing them go on ad naseuem with some of the most ridiculous, racist, offensive comments that received NO moderation.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

You're welcome to you and orger 'Well' for your comments. I've always said if Prince didn't see an issue or importance of exposing race issues in this country, he would have never had any reason to create songs, raising awareness about it, so to dismiss any discussion of race or even discussing songs inclusive of that topic, created by a Black musician/artist, is basically dismissing, turning-the-other-cheek or devaluing the reason he wrote it. It does get tiring of some trying to dismiss Prince's race or finding some other way to de-Black Prince. Not just here, but on other sites as well. At the end of the day race-related topics are not easy to discuss here, or on other social media sites, without the possible deletion of those threads or because some members may choose to derail it, (which changes the flow of the discussion), because many are not comfortable with the topic being discussed, which of course is not fair to those who are comfortable discussing it. Unfortunately, there really isn't any easy way to handle discussing race topics, because of the sensitivity of it. [Edited 6/6/16 7:15am]

Is was stated to another message, the Org is not dismissed or devalued the discussion. The Van/BLM thread went 7 pages deep. And would have continued, if some lurke troll did not post 6 posts full of slanderous/baiting/flaming posts. So it had to be hidden for another Moderator to look at and clean it up. Otherwise it would still be open, and if deamed necessary it will be opened again. You have been here a long time and this has been explain before that this is why it happens.

And the Ebony Prince and blackness thread 10pages deep is still open.

So no one is trying to censor anyone.

People being comfortable or not is not the issue. And this is the issue with most race or religion threads. I posted some of the problem on why it was hidden for moderation above. what does any of that have to do with the topic. HOw is this below(from 6 posts by the same person) not the reason why it was hidden temporarily

YOU people are disgusting...Yet the moment the man isn't here to potentially read your works through lurking, and otherwise standup and defend himself, you all:

topics that had nothing to do with the thread just a disgusting rant that 100% violate forum rules.

This is just the opening of 6 consecutive posts about all of this. And attack the site moderators and making racial attacks.

First, who the fuck are you to even imagine

HE DIDN'T DIG YOU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM...

But you muthafuckas will cry over a damn lion in Africa

Just another off-beat idiot who wishes he could dance to the funk.

internally you have to admit that either you're lacking in normal-level adult intelligence or you're simply trolling because you think it's funny and cute.

.

OldFriends4Sale said:

we have 2 'white' Moderators out of 7

don't assume you know the ethnic backgrounds of anyone, nor their nationalities or religious/non religious beliefs.

your post was slanderous and bigoted. And another Mod is looking into any needed Moderation.

The thread discussion wasn't a problem.

OldFriends4Sale said: