From a non-personal / non-emotional / non-accusatory perspective, let's gain a group understanding of what a TROLL is, and what FLAMING actually is.

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These words have been used a lot lately on the org, and it seems people have different definitions or ideals of what Troll(ing) Flame(ing) consists of. I think this could be a healthy coming together of individual in general...

.

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

created by ModJune7 Thread started 01/07/08 5:44pm (This if the the Sticky found on the Site Management page) This topic posted by Mod June7 is very indepth about Trolling in general it goes into wider degrees of Cyber Trolling and bullying

Trolling will not be tolerated and will be acted upon immediately when reported.
Review of such posting on threads could result in adverse action up to, and including, permanent removal from this site.

DO NOT TROLL -

DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN TROLLING -

REPORT ALL TROLLING -

KEEP THE ORG A TROLL FREE PLACE TO VISIT

For a better understanding of the problems and heartache that arise from trolling, read this.
(With special thanks to ZombieKitten for providing the link.)

Thank U

Politics & Religion

Flex your debating skills on more serious topics such as world politics, history, religion, racial issues etc. Keep it friendly though!

Interested in discussing your political or religious views? Then this is the forum for you. Civility, respect and tolerance must be maintained at all times. Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion. Any deletion of combative, bigoted or insensitive comments should not be construed as denial of your individual right to air your own opinion ; we only attempt to maintain an inclusive forum.

Be civilized
Don't create offensive, vulgar, obscene, threatening, abusive or excessively profane posts. Do not instigate, engage in, or encourage 'flame wars'. If you insult someone "jokingly", be prepared to have it not interpreted that way by the Moderators. A good general rule: "criticize ideas, not people." Any language which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense is grounds for immediate account deletion.

Don't post trolls/ads/spam/get-rich-quick schemes/other junk.
Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up. Don't post useless off-topic stuff. Even if a silly, no-purpose post seems harmless and fun, don't be surprised if you get a warning and the message locked/deleted. You might think it's cute, but Moderators who have to wade through tons of posts like this, don't. In general, don't post advertisements. Advertising may be allowed in certain circumstances; ask a moderator privately before posting. If a post is mostly just an ad for another website, it will likely be removed. In general, post if you have something to say. If you want to start a new thread, make it worthwhile. Don't be lazy and give a 1-sentence "what do you think about X?". At least explain your position, why, etc... make it interesting to read; you're more likely to get quality responses.

thank you for this thread OldFriends4Sale. i'm sorry i got all bent out of shape on this issue and took it out on you.

what i see happening at prince.org in my opinion, with respect to the issue i brought up, would fall into the categories below.

Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion.

Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up.

in my opinion, there is a fine line between playful mockery, such as a one-off joke or two about a thread topic, as opposed to following a specific orger around the forums to post on every single one of their threads with ridicule and personal attacks.

depending on whose point of view is considered, this would be a tough call to make. in this regard, i think the feelings of the OP/thread creator should be taken into account.

[Edited 4/3/15 17:26pm]

Here is an Urban Dictionary definition

troll

As a linguist this absolutely is my field of interest. Clare Hardaker of Lancaster University is one of the UK's leading experts in 'trolling'. I find this quote of hers particularly interesting:

"The time-wasting noise of one troll-post is relatively easily ignored, but the noise of hundreds of replies to the troll-post, and complaints about those replies, can entirely drown out the worthwhile content."

In other words, it is not the original troll post that brings down the thread but the people who choose not to ignore it. Actually trolls are quite subtle usually as they are easily identified if they are too inflammatory. Often they might gradually steer the thread way from the original topic through multiple subtle replies. It's done for self amusement but can make a genuine thread unreadable (remember the Hit n Run thread for Louisville Saturday shows?).

Sadly trolls will continue to haunt any public websites with forums. Some are cleverer than others. Best thing to do if you feel really angered by another orgers comments is not to spontaneously reply but to take a moment and see if the comment genuinely relates to the topic of the thread. If not, it's best ignored. However we all have our own opinions so if someone has commented on something relative to the topic that deserves a reply relevant to the topic then a reply is necessary (just keep to topic and not make it personal)

Trolling is posting a video with no commentary, insight or analysis. In fact, that's not only trolling but it's also a violation of the P&R forum's rules.

We have a couple Orgers who do that on a constant basis. I am certain their "feelings" would be given more consideration if they adhered to the rules of the P&R forum - like everyone else does.

I think it's important to remember that the P&R forum is for debate. That is CLEARLY defined in the rules posted at the top of the forum, which I will reproduce below.

But there is absolutely no doubt that the P&R forum is NOT set up for Orgers to throw out random shit - or valid shit, take your pick - and say "What do u think about this?"

I don't see a lot of flaming, though. I've had my sexuality questioned, had it suggested that I like to stick gerbils up my ass, and had it intimated that I am in the KKK - all by the same Orger. But so what? I don't consider that "flaming", I consider it proof positive that Orger can't win on the facts so they have to result to insults. So I don't bother reporting that kind of stuff.

The P&R forum rules:

Interested in discussing your political or religious views? Then this is the forum for you. Civility, respect and tolerance must be maintained at all times. Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion. Any deletion of combative, bigoted or insensitive comments should not be construed as denial of your individual right to air your own opinion ; we only attempt to maintain an inclusive forum.

Above all: KEEP IT FRIENDLY!

One last thing: PLEASE do not copy articles verbatim from other sites or post videos without comment! If you want to quote something, or post a video, fine... say where it comes from, provide a link, and also provide ANALYSIS and INSIGHT of your own. We're here to discuss and debate ideas we actually hold. So make your opinion clear, and remember to do so with civility.

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[Edited 4/6/15 8:53am]

I honestly don't see the appeal of trolling. I mean, why the people that do it do it. To these people I'm just like 'wow, you managed to rustle a few jimmies, well done' 'Now get on with something more worthwhile, don't you have like, a life to live?'.

Although to be fair, many people will probably agree with me here that it's great to just sit and watch a shitstorm ensue right before your eyes but not get involved. Grab the popcorn, get a coke and watch strangers on the internet argue. Humans are funny like that

I guess some of the forums that get hit the hardest are Politics & Religion 1st Prince Music & More 2nd

.

I always look at these forums as 'Rooms' and only certain members choose to go into these rooms to discuss topics. For example in these rooms(using P&R) there are 3 tables: 1 is Religion 1 is Politics 1 is Race/Ethnicity. There actually may be only 10-20 people who actually go into this room to sit at 1 or more of these table discussions. Many Org members pass by the door, some look into but don't take part/stay. So there may be 7 people who like to talk about Religion only or 10 who like to talk about Race, so whenever a new discussion on that topic comes up, since there are only 7 or 10 people at that table they are the ones most likely to respond, so what might look like 'trolling' to some is just a member who likes to talk/discuss/debate on race or religion. And there are many people who just have very different opinions that how we think or believe.

.

From here on out is where a real definition of what Trolling is has to be taken into account.

XxAxX said:

thank you for this thread OldFriends4Sale. i'm sorry i got all bent out of shape on this issue and took it out on you.

what i see happening at prince.org in my opinion, with respect to the issue i brought up, would fall into the categories below.

Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion.

Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up.

in my opinion, there is a fine line between playful mockery, such as a one-off joke or two about a thread topic, as opposed to following a specific orger around the forums to post on every single one of their threads with ridicule and personal attacks.

depending on whose point of view is considered, this would be a tough call to make. in this regard, i think the feelings of the OP/thread creator should be taken into account.

Definately no one wants anyone to be hurt.

But that is a hard thing to cover in cyberspace outside of person blatantly attacking an individual.

Personal attacks vs attacks on the 'belief' or ideals for many seem to get tangled. Of course in certain discussion, they are very personal to the individual, so attacking the belief, a peson feels personally attacked. But that doesn't mean a member is trolling/flaming or attacking the individual.

.

Of course there are people that take criticm of Prince personally. In a FB group there was a woman who said she 'hated Morris Day' for 'what he did to Prince' in Purple Rain.

Cyberspace is a weird place to navigate.

OldFriends4Sale said:

XxAxX said:

thank you for this thread OldFriends4Sale. i'm sorry i got all bent out of shape on this issue and took it out on you.

what i see happening at prince.org in my opinion, with respect to the issue i brought up, would fall into the categories below.

Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion.

Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up.

in my opinion, there is a fine line between playful mockery, such as a one-off joke or two about a thread topic, as opposed to following a specific orger around the forums to post on every single one of their threads with ridicule and personal attacks.

depending on whose point of view is considered, this would be a tough call to make. in this regard, i think the feelings of the OP/thread creator should be taken into account.

. .. .. . But that doesn't mean a member is trolling/flaming or attacking the individual.

.

.. ..

actually, i think it IS true when a noticeable pattern emerges.

XxAxX said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

. .. .. . But that doesn't mean a member is trolling/flaming or attacking the individual.

.

.. ..

actually, i think it IS true when a noticeable pattern emerges.

I totally agree, and I would point out [SNIP -OF4S] statement in a thread on this forum a few months ago that he didn't intend to adhere to the rules, and that the mods were free to respond to that however they saw fit.

XxAxX said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

. .. .. . But that doesn't mean a member is trolling/flaming or attacking the individual.

.

.. ..

actually, i think it IS true when a noticeable pattern emerges.

It always depends.

For example when it comes down to certain religious debates, You automatically know 99% that in this corner will be 1 2 3 in the other corner will be A B C and they will have the same arguement, the same beliefs the same disagreement. You could say that is a pattern. But it doesn't mean trolling/flaming. Those 2 definitions have to be specific to a behaviour.

maplenpg said:

As a linguist this absolutely is my field of interest. Clare Hardaker of Lancaster University is one of the UK's leading experts in 'trolling'. I find this quote of hers particularly interesting:

"The time-wasting noise of one troll-post is relatively easily ignored, but the noise of hundreds of replies to the troll-post, and complaints about those replies, can entirely drown out the worthwhile content."

In other words, it is not the original troll post that brings down the thread but the people who choose not to ignore it. Actually trolls are quite subtle usually as they are easily identified if they are too inflammatory. Often they might gradually steer the thread way from the original topic through multiple subtle replies. It's done for self amusement but can make a genuine thread unreadable (remember the Hit n Run thread for Louisville Saturday shows?).

Sadly trolls will continue to haunt any public websites with forums. Some are cleverer than others. Best thing to do if you feel really angered by another orgers comments is not to spontaneously reply but to take a moment and see if the comment genuinely relates to the topic of the thread. If not, it's best ignored. However we all have our own opinions so if someone has commented on something relative to the topic that deserves a reply relevant to the topic then a reply is necessary (just keep to topic and not make it personal)

Well that is true lol

Once certain thread discussion get underway 4 pages in it's easy for a troll to derail the thread

Then 9 pages later a Mod gets the requests for moderation

RodeoSchro said:

XxAxX said:

actually, i think it IS true when a noticeable pattern emerges.

I totally agree, and I would point out [SNIP -OF4S] statement in a thread on this forum a few months ago that he didn't intend to adhere to the rules, and that the mods were free to respond to that however they saw fit.

[SNIP -OF4S]

What is the rule regarding STALKING?

Graycap23 said:

What is the rule regarding STALKING?

No one is stalking you.

Graycap23 said:

What is the rule regarding STALKING?

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

What is the rule regarding STALKING?

No one is stalking you.

SNIP -OF4S

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

No one is stalking you.

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

personally, i've been stalked on and offline as a result of posts i've made in the general discussion forum about a series of books with which i took issue.
.
so, online bullying is a topic i feel strongly about.
.
and for those who do not believe that someone could be enough to take offhanded posts at prince.org so seriously as to commit actual criminal acts in pursuit of their insanely skewed notion of 'justice', please be advised: they can, and at times do. just my 2c

XxAxX said:

RodeoSchro said:

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either.will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either. will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

SNIP

Please don't bring in 'outside' fights or personal gripes.

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

*any attempts at derailling the thread, attacking indivuals whether it be Moderators/Members will be removed(according to site rules) please no ganging up or below the belt comments either, will be Snipped, Warned, and if you continue a Temp Ban will be issued

http://www.urbandictionar...rm=flaming

flaming

I think with the org there isn't really 'trolling' or 'flaming' per se because most of the people here are old enough to understand that arguing with people on the internet is a pointless waste of time and ignore/avoid arguments that are obvious bait. Take a thread with the title of 'Purple Rain is a shit album' as an example. Guarenteed replies, because it's his most famous album and many people appreciate it. But at the same time, with a quick glance into the thread you will probably find that the OP is trying to initiate a flame war between himself and the members. So most people will see this and move on. (I would anyway lmao, I grew up with the internet).

Edit: I just wanted to add that bait comes in all shapes and forms. It's identifying it thats the trick. Because I've grown up with the internet from being a teenager I've been on a lot of forums and stuff from a young age, so I can kind of tell when someone is trying to start an argument even if it's subtle. What you could call 'premium quality bait' is basically someone starting a thread that looks legit, but they plant tiny seeds in there that will most probably start an argument.

I think what the issue is is that you have different types of fans all coming together with their own ideas, most commonly what I like to call (affectionately) 'the Prince arse lickers' and the 'I wish it was still 1988' Prince fans. Basically the first type are the ones that believe Prince can do nothing wrong and will defend him to the grave (you all know these people), and the second are just the opposite of that, they practically despise the man yet still listen to his music/buy his concert tickets etc. These two types often come into contact with each other and what looks like trolling, isn't. It's just a difference of opinion. Two largely out of proportion opinions, but opinions nontheless.

[Edited 4/8/15 9:58am]

Angelsoncrack said:

I think with the org there isn't really 'trolling' or 'flaming' per se because most of the people here are old enough to understand that arguing with people on the internet is a pointless waste of time and ignore/avoid arguments that are obvious bait. Take a thread with the title of 'Purple Rain is a shit album' as an example. Guarenteed replies, because it's his most famous album and many people appreciate it. But at the same time, with a quick glance into the thread you will probably find that the OP is trying to initiate a flame war between himself and the members. So most people will see this and move on. (I would anyway lmao, I grew up with the internet).

Edit: I just wanted to add that bait comes in all shapes and forms. It's identifying it thats the trick. Because I've grown up with the internet from being a teenager I've been on a lot of forums and stuff from a young age, so I can kind of tell when someone is trying to start an argument even if it's subtle. What you could call 'premium quality bait' is basically someone starting a thread that looks legit, but they plant tiny seeds in there that will most probably start an argument.

I think what the issue is is that you have different types of fans all coming together with their own ideas, most commonly what I like to call (affectionately) 'the Prince arse lickers' and the 'I wish it was still 1988' Prince fans. Basically the first type are the ones that believe Prince can do nothing wrong and will defend him to the grave (you all know these people), and the second are just the opposite of that, they practically despise the man yet still listen to his music/buy his concert tickets etc. These two types often come into contact with each other and what looks like trolling, isn't. It's just a difference of opinion. Two largely out of proportion opinions, but opinions nontheless.

[Edited 4/8/15 9:58am]

Yep, I think it's easier to pinpoint it in thread like P&R and most other threads you don't get the FLAME threads

But it is a problem in the P&R thread

Lot's of sensitivity to issues, and sometimes people don't know how to seperate the content of the info and the person actually typing. So then the lines are crossed and it can quickly become personal.

OldFriends4Sale said:

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

I really dislike use of the word "Troll", but to answer the question I believe it's somebody who has nothing positive to say about all things Prince. I also believe it's someone who brings negativity to a thread that is meant for only those who have positive thoughts on the subject. For example, if I start a thread titled "What's your favorite song from The Rainbow Children" I wouldn't want anyone saying they don't have one because the entire album is crap blah blah blah. Anyone who does is trolling.

Flaming is disagreeing, criticizing, being negative or posting something controversial without backing it up. For example, saying "Prince sucked in concert" is flaming but saying "Prince didn't put on a very good show because too many songs were sung by his backup singers, he had technical problems with his guitar and the setlist was full of just the same old hits". Criticism is fine as long as there's a reasonable attempt to provide a logical explanation for the criticism.

Pokeno4Money said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

For those members willing, please post what you believe a Troll is and what Flaming is in conjuction with Prince.org

I really dislike use of the word "Troll", but to answer the question I believe it's somebody who has nothing positive to say about all things Prince. I also believe it's someone who brings negativity to a thread that is meant for only those who have positive thoughts on the subject. For example, if I start a thread titled "What's your favorite song from The Rainbow Children" I wouldn't want anyone saying they don't have one because the entire album is crap blah blah blah. Anyone who does is trolling.

Flaming is disagreeing, criticizing, being negative or posting something controversial without backing it up. For example, saying "Prince sucked in concert" is flaming but saying "Prince didn't put on a very good show because too many songs were sung by his backup singers, he had technical problems with his guitar and the setlist was full of just the same old hits". Criticism is fine as long as there's a reasonable attempt to provide a logical explanation for the criticism.

Troll is a harsh word, but that is what it is

I've had the same thoughts opinions about certain threads (and U C it all the time) threads created 'Parade Appreciation' and someone sometimes the 1st person to post says I don't think it is his best work, or I prefere Rainbow Children. And this stuff should and will be snipped and the offending member given a warning.

Same thing in other forums.

.

Flaming, sometimes comes in the form of 'Venting' threads especially about 'other' people

There are a lot of posts where people drop a bomb and then watch the rest of members explode. Members think they should address such 'wrong' thinking and that is how we feed the Trolls

.

And then there are obvious flaming threads that people ignore, sometimes because the OP's post is so unintelligent, that you can't respond

XxAxX said:

thank you for this thread OldFriends4Sale. i'm sorry i got all bent out of shape on this issue and took it out on you.

what i see happening at prince.org in my opinion, with respect to the issue i brought up, would fall into the categories below.

Disagree if you wish, but do not attack other individuals on the basis of their beliefs. Remember there is no right or wrong opinion.

Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up.

in my opinion, there is a fine line between playful mockery, such as a one-off joke or two about a thread topic, as opposed to following a specific orger around the forums to post on every single one of their threads with ridicule and personal attacks.

depending on whose point of view is considered, this would be a tough call to make. in this regard, i think the feelings of the OP/thread creator should be taken into account.

[Edited 4/3/15 17:26pm]

One thing, that I brought up earlier, is in certain discussion that consist of very personal subject matter, like Race Relgion Gender in that order, people hold very close, it's intertwined with who they are of course. Race get's to be a very uncomfortable subject because some think if you disagree with their post/thoughts/beliefs you are in fact attacking them, or talking down to them or against them. So a member could easily be sticking to the rules and discussing the words and the person they are replying to takes it personal. So from there if those 2 people are regularly in P&R and debating the one that disagrees is automatically accused of trolling or being abusive or being wrong.

I think this whole thing is getting a bit out of control. While I do understand RodeoSchro´s frustration with some of Graycap´s threads which sometimes consist of nothing but a videoclip or a copy-and-paste job of an article, I still enjoy some of Graycap´s posts about aliens, UFOs, conspiracies and racism. Not that I necessarily believe in those things but some of them are really interesting and I don´t have a problem with Graycap not adding any thoughts to the stuff he posts.

Sure, it IS a violation of rules to just post something without adding your own thoughts or questions but still, some of that stuff has some entertainment value, so I don´t really mind.

As far as the personal vendetta between the two goes, I understand both sides but it is getting a bit tiresome now and very often the aggressive aura on those threads, the back and forth rebuttals and comments diminish the fun and entertainment, and often leads to threads getting locked.

-

I´d rather see less censorship and editing on the org, and , considering this is more or less a grown folks forum ( most young folks don´t even KNOW Prince ) I´d appreciate less censorship in the General Discussion forum, too.

Also, I don´t think that orgers who violate the rules should be banned for good. Even when I hate certain people or disagree strongly , I don´t think that people should ever get banned. If I don´t like them or their posts, I can simply ignore them. The org used to be so interesting ten years ago, or 15 years ago. Let´s bring some of that energy and diversity back.

The process of communication involves a mutual agreement on the meaning of words
-Charley Halsted