OldFriends4Sale said:

TonyVanDam said:

Here's the thing: I never called anyone "the devil" at all, not once time ever! My previous thread was intended to debunk the hateful myth about "all white people are the devils". You know that myth is bigoted bullshit and I know that myth is bigoted bullshit. Therefore, we should not be afraid to discuss why that myth is bigoted bullshit. My professional opinion of course.

But after what you said in the previous post, I know now that "others" are too afraid to discuss it.

TonyVanDam said:

I'll start this controversial thread off by saying this:
Within the issue of racism and white supremacy, some white folks are "the devils" if they are still convince that they are better than everyone else worldwide.

.

Stop Tony, seriously stop. Dot your i's and cross you T's. These race threads are about burnt out.

No I will not stop if you or anyone, mod or orger, are going to continue to take anything a person said out of context. And if someone is using "soundbyte-like tactics" to take any of my posts out of context like what you're trying to do, I automatically earn the opportunity to defend myself. Plain and simple.

You have you character to defend and I have my character to defend. You don't want anyone to wrongfully accuse you for being homophobic, then please don't wrongfully accuse me for being culturally bias. Plain and simple.

Wow....my Tony,

One big issue I see is when "some" mods think that they are somehow above criticism. Even though we are reminded over and over and over and over, ad nauseum that mods have the final say that does not mean that anybody is prohibited from criticizing them. It is not against the rules and that line is being over used to stifle legitimate observations.

I'm sure that being unfairly accused of abuse of power sucks but it's not something that should not have come as a surprise and I don't see it stopping anytime soon, so you have the option to deal with it or not.

For example, on the aforementioned thread where militant jumped to kcool's defense with no regard for how he consistently flames others while trying to be a self appointed, de-facto moderator. The moderator has to consider both sides, not just the ones they agree with. I only mention that example because it has already been brought up. It might have seemed unfair to militant but not to those who routinely get targeted by the person he was defending.


Another example is how one member has been mercilessly trolling another and attacking him personally for over a month and nothing has been done about it, despite the fact that there is obvious personal animus. There was a time when personal vendettas were directed to be settled in orgnotes so as not to clutter the thread but that doesn't happen anymore.

A lot of this could be avoided if people were reminded more often to STAY ON TOPIC but I have never seen anyone other than Luv and Mach consistently enforce it.

Moreover, why are there fully ten moderators listed on this site but only four are regularly active? That in and of itself is ridiculous as no mod should have to be in charge of more than two forums. It's gotta be damn near impossible to keep up. Either force the slackers to step up or get rid of them once and for all and get some people who can be available. Of course, I'm excusing anybody who hasn't been around for personal reasons.

Finally, we have a rule in P&R that says we must provide commentary to whatever article or video that we post. Is it too much to ask for the respondents on a thread to actually read the damn article or watch the freakin video? That would cut way down on a lot of misunderstanding from people spouting off on shit that wasn't even the topic in the first place. It's frustrating as hell to post something and get some stupid reply from somebody who didn't even bother to read what I've taken time to post. If people aren't willing to do that, they shouldn't reply.

What kind of decent discussion can take place when people are responding to what they think they heard based on their own agenda instead of what was actually said? A helluva lot of confusion could be avoided if people would actually pay attention and respond on topic.....less need for moderation that way too.

babynoz said:

Wow....my Tony,

One big issue I see is when "some" mods think that they are somehow above criticism. Even though we are reminded over and over and over and over, ad nauseum that mods have the final say that does not mean that anybody is prohibited from criticizing them. It is not against the rules and that line is being over used to stifle legitimate observations.

I'm sure that being unfairly accused of abuse of power sucks but it's not something that should not have come as a surprise and I don't see it stopping anytime soon, so you have the option to deal with it or not.

For example, on the aforementioned thread where militant jumped to kcool's defense with no regard for how he consistently flames others while trying to be a self appointed, de-facto moderator. The moderator has to consider both sides, not just the ones they agree with. I only mention that example because it has already been brought up. It might have seemed unfair to militant but not to those who routinely get targeted by the person he was defending.


Another example is how one member has been mercilessly trolling another and attacking him personally for over a month and nothing has been done about it, despite the fact that there is obvious personal animus. There was a time when personal vendettas were directed to be settled in orgnotes so as not to clutter the thread but that doesn't happen anymore.

A lot of this could be avoided if people were reminded more often to STAY ON TOPIC but I have never seen anyone other than Luv and Mach consistently enforce it.

Moreover, why are there fully ten moderators listed on this site but only four are regularly active? That in and of itself is ridiculous as no mod should have to be in charge of more than two forums. It's gotta be damn near impossible to keep up. Either force the slackers to step up or get rid of them once and for all and get some people who can be available. Of course, I'm excusing anybody who hasn't been around for personal reasons.

Finally, we have a rule in P&R that says we must provide commentary to whatever article or video that we post. Is it too much to ask for the respondents on a thread to actually read the damn article or watch the freakin video? That would cut way down on a lot of misunderstanding from people spouting off on shit that wasn't even the topic in the first place. It's frustrating as hell to post something and get some stupid reply from somebody who didn't even bother to read what I've taken time to post. If people aren't willing to do that, they shouldn't reply.

What kind of decent discussion can take place when people are responding to what they think they heard based on their own agenda instead of what was actually said? A helluva lot of confusion could be avoided if people would actually pay attention and respond on topic.....less need for moderation that way too.

Bingo on BOTH points!

Another thing that has to be established is that a topic being offensive to any given member doesn't necessarily mean it's against the rules. For example, GD regularly has thread about eating ass and similar filth which I find offensive so I skip those kinds of threads. In P&R we have an abundance of anti-christian sentiment on a regular basis. In M&M somebody is always whining about Prince's hair. There's any number of things on here that I find immature, stupid or just plain hateful.

Members have the option to report content that is against the rules but do they? Noooo, everybody wanna see and be seen so they go back and forth with the OP on and on and then wonder why the thread stays active? Here's a crazy idea....if you ignore a thread it sinks to the bottom of the forum.

If you really believe that someone is trolling or baiting either report them or ignore them, but stop grandstanding and then complaining about something you are fully participating in.

babynoz said:

Another thing that has to be established is that a topic being offensive to any given member doesn't necessarily mean it's against the rules. For example, GD regularly has thread about eating ass and similar filth which I find offensive so I skip those kinds of threads. In P&R we have an abundance of anti-christian sentiment on a regular basis. In M&M somebody is always whining about Prince's hair. There's any number of things on here that I find immature, stupid or just plain hateful.

Members have the option to report content that is against the rules but do they? Noooo, everybody wanna see and be seen so they go back and forth with the OP on and on and then wonder why the thread stays active? Here's a crazy idea....if you ignore a thread it sinks to the bottom of the forum.

If you really believe that someone is trolling or baiting either report them or ignore them, but stop grandstanding and then complaining about something you are fully participating in.

For u 2 even have to try and explain this is just sad. It is like dealing with a bunch of 5 year olds. What is the point of posting in threads that u have no interest in? Just plain silly.

It wouldn't hurt to rotate moderators that way we don't have the same mods doing the same old thing over and over again. Give them a break and let someon else have a chance at being a mod.

SeventeenDayze said:

It wouldn't hurt to rotate moderators that way we don't have the same mods doing the same old thing over and over again. Give them a break and let someon else have a chance at being a mod.

Pretty good idea.

babynoz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

It wouldn't hurt to rotate moderators that way we don't have the same mods doing the same old thing over and over again. Give them a break and let someon else have a chance at being a mod.

Pretty good idea.

Thank you. I don't think it would hurt to have a fresh batch of moderators or at least to have a forum where we could have more input on who gets to be a moderator or not.

babynoz said:

Another thing that has to be established is that a topic being offensive to any given member doesn't necessarily mean it's against the rules. For example, GD regularly has thread about eating ass and similar filth which I find offensive so I skip those kinds of threads. In P&R we have an abundance of anti-christian sentiment on a regular basis. In M&M somebody is always whining about Prince's hair. There's any number of things on here that I find immature, stupid or just plain hateful.

Members have the option to report content that is against the rules but do they? Noooo, everybody wanna see and be seen so they go back and forth with the OP on and on and then wonder why the thread stays active? Here's a crazy idea....if you ignore a thread it sinks to the bottom of the forum.

If you really believe that someone is trolling or baiting either report them or ignore them, but stop grandstanding and then complaining about something you are fully participating in.

1. Reporting the trolls & flamebaiters is the right thing to do. But it's too bad that it's takes the mods almost a week too late to show up to do anything.

2. Ignoring the troublemakers doesn't work. All it does is get them room to deraid a thread off-topic to the point of ruins.

SeventeenDayze said:

It wouldn't hurt to rotate moderators that way we don't have the same mods doing the same old thing over and over again. Give them a break and let someon else have a chance at being a mod.

Good idea. Bring your suggestion to Ben's attention, if you can.

TonyVanDam said:

SeventeenDayze said:

It wouldn't hurt to rotate moderators that way we don't have the same mods doing the same old thing over and over again. Give them a break and let someon else have a chance at being a mod.

Good idea. Bring your suggestion to Ben's attention, if you can.

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

Hardly anyone uses the report button, despite the fact that we've repeatedly brought it up whenever anyone says "Why hasn't X been dealt with".

If you have a problem with a post, report it! And we will ALWAYS review it.

TonyVanDam said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

TonyVanDam said:

I'll start this controversial thread off by saying this:
Within the issue of racism and white supremacy, some white folks are "the devils" if they are still convince that they are better than everyone else worldwide.

.

Stop Tony, seriously stop. Dot your i's and cross you T's. These race threads are about burnt out.

No I will not stop if you or anyone, mod or orger, are going to continue to take anything a person said out of context. And if someone is using "soundbyte-like tactics" to take any of my posts out of context like what you're trying to do, I automatically earn the opportunity to defend myself. Plain and simple.

You have you character to defend and I have my character to defend. You don't want anyone to wrongfully accuse you for being homophobic, then please don't wrongfully accuse me for being culturally bias. Plain and simple.

Stop Tony

You said you never called anyone the devil

then I quote you saying what you said.

Stop Tony

Militant said:

Hardly anyone uses the report button, despite the fact that we've repeatedly brought it up whenever anyone says "Why hasn't X been dealt with".

If you have a problem with a post, report it! And we will ALWAYS review it.

Right

And when you do get it the thread is 10 pages deep with no post #s to reference

.

If we remove Religion + Race discussion that would cut out 90% of these trouble threads and issues

babynoz said:

Wow....my Tony,

One big issue I see is when "some" mods think that they are somehow above criticism. Even though we are reminded over and over and over and over, ad nauseum that mods have the final say that does not mean that anybody is prohibited from criticizing them. It is not against the rules and that line is being over used to stifle legitimate observations.

I'm sure that being unfairly accused of abuse of power sucks but it's not something that should not have come as a surprise and I don't see it stopping anytime soon, so you have the option to deal with it or not.

The reminder most of the times comes when the person doesn't follow that part of the rule.

No one thinks they are above criticism, but take it to orgnotes, not creating a thread or bring it up

in that thread-taking the topic off direction (which is what happens most of the time) which is why that rule is usually put up. And in most of my experiences they don't attempt to communicate via org notes after they made an issue of it in public whether in that particular thread or by creating a thread to discuss it.

.

Legitimate observations only occur when the person complaining follows the rule.

And of course who isn't dealing with it? Of course we deal with it. But being accused of 'abuse' and taking away someones freedom of speech... we are reminded over and over and over and over, ad nauseum

We deal with it, have a chuckle and move on

.

Most people don't complain about their 'buddies' crossing the lines, or trolling someone, they only care when their 'buddies are being trolled and someone is supposedly crossing the line with them.

Which of course creates a flame war.

90% of the problems come from Religion & Race threads, for obvious reasons, and it's been a problem before I was a mod, before I was a member

.

TonyVanDam has every right to criticize, but at least be valid.

This whole thread was created because he thought I said 'having you by the nutts' was me being homophobic and breaking a rule. Wrong

He says the thread about White Devils had no complaints from anyone in the thread and they were having a lovely education discussion, then I post all the complaint posts that he chose to dismiss in why the thread was removed. A thread that is only on page 2 and 1/2 the comments are complaints and 1/3rd are off topic. It became a none sense thread and removed.

I've moderated threads created by TVD, I've had many requests of moderation on TVD posts & threads. I've found some with warrent and others not. The one time out of all this time that I've had to remove a thread he gets offended and makes an attack against my moderation.

Water off my back

.

the 10 Moderators you are counting -is because everyone has to have Moderation in the site discussion forum. Everyone is not a direct Mod in every forum

SeventeenDayze said:

TonyVanDam said:

Good idea. Bring your suggestion to Ben's attention, if you can.

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

That says a lot

And probably why you would like a change of moderators

change of mods wouldn't change things if the reason 'your email might be met with controversy' is still an issue

SeventeenDayze said:

TonyVanDam said:

Good idea. Bring your suggestion to Ben's attention, if you can.

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

There's nothing controversial about what you just posted. You have a right to your opinion, just as anyone else does - including mods. And FYI, I'm relatively sure Ben doesn't read many posts on the Org. So you should orgnote or email him if you want him to know your views.

RodeoSchro said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

There's nothing controversial about what you just posted. You have a right to your opinion, just as anyone else does - including mods. And FYI, I'm relatively sure Ben doesn't read many posts on the Org. So you should orgnote or email him if you want him to know your views.

I'll help her, I will cut in paste her opinion in the Mod forum for Ben and the others to see

OldFriends4Sale said:

TonyVanDam said:

No I will not stop if you or anyone, mod or orger, are going to continue to take anything a person said out of context. And if someone is using "soundbyte-like tactics" to take any of my posts out of context like what you're trying to do, I automatically earn the opportunity to defend myself. Plain and simple.

You have you character to defend and I have my character to defend. You don't want anyone to wrongfully accuse you for being homophobic, then please don't wrongfully accuse me for being culturally bias. Plain and simple.

Stop Tony

You said you never called anyone the devil

then I quote you saying what you said.

Stop Tony

Then why not "man up" and bring my thread back, but keep it locked, in P&R so all of the orgers and mods alike can see the thread in its entire so they can draw their own conclusion?

I know why: Because it's you that's telling a bold face lie with your one sided story.

And I definitely know that I can and will never ever trust you again after you already revealed yourself to Gray and myself that you're a "Native American Genocide denier" (which is as racial insensitive as a "Jewish Holocrast denier") back in that Jane Elliott thread. No one has to attack your character OldFriends because you already done an excellent done exposing yourself.

ONE LAST THING: Thank you for showing up too late in one of my other thread when I really needed a moderator to help me save my from Treehouse's derailing attempt. You wouldn't tell him anything but you only wanted to talk at Seventeen & myself?!?

Just as I already knew, your a mod showing favoritism. So you stop it OldFriends.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Militant said:

Hardly anyone uses the report button, despite the fact that we've repeatedly brought it up whenever anyone says "Why hasn't X been dealt with".

If you have a problem with a post, report it! And we will ALWAYS review it.

Right

And when you do get it the thread is 10 pages deep with no post #s to reference

.

If we remove Religion + Race discussion that would cut out 90% of these trouble threads and issues

Bad idea. Without a P&R forum to discuss religion & race-related topics, you have a problem keeping the General Discussion clean from hot topics.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

That says a lot

And probably why you would like a change of moderators

change of mods wouldn't change things if the reason 'your email might be met with controversy' is still an issue

Speaking for myself, I've never told anyone that I wanted you to step down from moderator duties. No, not one ever!

Granted, you have been disappointing in P&R. But you're excellent in P:M&M. I just wish you were a lot more fair in P&R as you always been in P:M&M.

TonyVanDam said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Stop Tony

You said you never called anyone the devil

then I quote you saying what you said.

Stop Tony

Then why not "man up" and bring my thread back, but keep it locked, in P&R so all of the orgers and mods alike can see the thread in its entire so they can draw their own conclusion?

I know why: Because it's you that's telling a bold face lie with your one sided story.

And I definitely know that I can and will never ever trust you again after you already revealed yourself to Gray and myself that you're a "Native American Genocide denier" (which is as racial insensitive as a "Jewish Holocrast denier") back in that Jane Elliott thread. No one has to attack your character OldFriends because you already done an excellent done exposing yourself.

ONE LAST THING: Thank you for showing up too late in one of my other thread when I really needed a moderator to help me save my from Treehouse's derailing attempt. You wouldn't tell him anything but you only wanted to talk at Seventeen & myself?!?

Just as I already knew, your a mod showing favoritism. So you stop it OldFriends.

get it all out of your system TonVanDam, get it all out, so you can enjoy all the other threads of yours that are still open for discussion.

OldFriends4Sale said:

TonyVanDam said:

Then why not "man up" and bring my thread back, but keep it locked, in P&R so all of the orgers and mods alike can see the thread in its entire so they can draw their own conclusion?

I know why: Because it's you that's telling a bold face lie with your one sided story.

And I definitely know that I can and will never ever trust you again after you already revealed yourself to Gray and myself that you're a "Native American Genocide denier" (which is as racial insensitive as a "Jewish Holocrast denier") back in that Jane Elliott thread. No one has to attack your character OldFriends because you already done an excellent done exposing yourself.

ONE LAST THING: Thank you for showing up too late in one of my other thread when I really needed a moderator to help me save my from Treehouse's derailing attempt. You wouldn't tell him anything but you only wanted to talk at Seventeen & myself?!?

Just as I already knew, your a mod showing favoritism. So you stop it OldFriends.

get it all out of your system TonVanDam, get it all out, so you can enjoy all the other threads of yours that are still open for discussion.

"TonVanDam"? Now seriously OldFriends, you dislike me so me that now you have reduced to name-calling? Shameful!

Militant said:

Hardly anyone uses the report button, despite the fact that we've repeatedly brought it up whenever anyone says "Why hasn't X been dealt with".

If you have a problem with a post, report it! And we will ALWAYS review it.

Hey Militant, I use the report button but the problem is that the majority of the time the same two moderators respond to all of the complaints and sometimes it seems that they side with people that they agree with on the political issues.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Hey Ben, if you're reading this please change the moderators as soon as you can. I would email you but I kinda think my email might be met with controversy so I respectfully decline to do that. I'd rather just post it here. Thanks.

That says a lot

And probably why you would like a change of moderators

change of mods wouldn't change things if the reason 'your email might be met with controversy' is still an issue

It seems that every single comment that I write is met with a sarcastic or rude reply by you. If I annoy you that much please ignore me. Thanks!

SeventeenDayze said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That says a lot

And probably why you would like a change of moderators

change of mods wouldn't change things if the reason 'your email might be met with controversy' is still an issue

It seems that every single comment that I write is met with a sarcastic or rude reply by you. If I annoy you that much please ignore me. Thanks!

some people are just so insecure to think I'm replying to every single comment you write.

I don't even reply to .05% of the comments you make.

No SeventeenDayze, I actually cut n pasted your request word 4 word,

with date and time to Ben/Moderator forum

Nothing to hide on my end

OldFriends4Sale said:

SeventeenDayze said:

It seems that every single comment that I write is met with a sarcastic or rude reply by you. If I annoy you that much please ignore me. Thanks!

some people are just so insecure

No SeventeenDayze, I actually cut n pasted your request with date and time to Ben/Moderator forum

Nothing to hide on my end

SeventeenDayze said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

some people are just so insecure

No SeventeenDayze, I actually cut n pasted your request with date and time to Ben/Moderator forum

Nothing to hide on my end

No, I prefer that you ignore me from now on. Thank you in advance.

Not going to happen SeventeenDayze

You said the same thing in general to a thread you created, that you wish you could filter out certain people. This is straight business.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SeventeenDayze said:

No, I prefer that you ignore me from now on. Thank you in advance.

Not going to happen SeventeenDayze

You said the same thing in general to a thread you created, they you wish you could filter out certain people. This is straight business.

Apart from your duties as a moderator, I would really prefer that you ingore me indefinitely. Thanks.

SeventeenDayze said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not going to happen SeventeenDayze

You said the same thing in general to a thread you created, they you wish you could filter out certain people. This is straight business.

Apart from your duties as a moderator, I would really prefer that you ingore me indefinitely. Thanks.

Not going to happen.

Even though I only reply to .05% of your posts.

You can't even prove that I have regular conversations with you

As a member you say you want others to ignore you, yet you will

indirectly reply to something those you have on (ignore) thru another person post