Sosgemini, was a mod during the time of discussion to do with how to deal with the MJ flooding in Music: non-Prince forum. Complaints also came from users in that forum dealing with that as well. Hence, Anxiety (another mod) at the time, came up with the idea of a sticky to deal with the flooding of the music: non-Prince forum. In other words to have one thread one sticky to discuss all things MJ. ...... which..... from that time.... up to now.... has been working for a long time. This site is not Jackson.org.

People who post on the MJ sticky, whether a fan of the man or not, are having no problem using the sticky and seem quite ok with a sticky. When it gets too long it gets replaced by a new fresh thread. The sticky thread has helped tremendously in that forum.

It would be impossible to have a sticky for all musical artists. There are stickies from time to time if let’s say a release of a new album, death of a musical artist, etc. etc. MJ is very much discussed ad nausem.

You helped make the rule, quitting, and now make a living criticizing the other mods.

Anyways......... why fix what has been working for a long time now. Besides, folks in that forum seem to be happy with it. Why change what's working great.

1) Thank you for answering my questions however

2) You can't just up and lock a thread when there is a healthy dialog going on. It's the equivalent of taking your toys and walking away from the sandbox. Poor form. Poor form.

3) Why are you making this personal and about me? I don't diss other mods. I question behavior or actions that I feel are irresponsible, unproffessional or just plain not thought out. Just as the case with the stickys in Music: Non Prince

4) Now can we get to the meat of the discussion?

A) Not sure why you brought up MJ cause I didn't.

B) You say there might be too many threads. Well, for the past six months there's been one artist without a sticky: Janet. Now there is another: Lady Gaga. Are you seriously saying that three arrtist sticky's is too many?

C) You say nobody is complainging...are you insane? People have been complaining about this stuff for a while.

I look forward to your responses to my points and please don't lock or hide this. It was rude of you to have done that to the previous thread in the first place.

Thanks!

ps. I don't know why luv brought up me being a mod during the time the rule was created. I said in the previous thread I agree with the sticky rule. However, I do not agree with the rule that Luv4u created on her own, to create single (non-sticky) threads for artist like Janet and Lady Gaga. It's confusing for new visitors of this site who don't know about her self-created undocumented rule. Plus, it forces all participants of the site to dig, google search or ask where the one single thread is. It makes no sense.

[Edited 3/28/11 10:02am]

Make some suggestions. I would love to hear from folks who use that forum. If they have some ideas on what they would like to see in that forum or even to improve the music: non-Prince forum, I'm up for that.

Temp stickies would be ideal for stuff such as tours, new album releases .........

I have been out of the loop

My Mom's death ... anyway

Trying to catch up when I can/feel open to doing so

seems I missed some things the past 3-4 weeks ...

luv4u said:

Make some suggestions. I would love to hear from folks who use that forum. If they have some ideas on what they would like to see in that forum or even to improve the music: non-Prince forum, I'm up for that.

Temp stickies would be ideal for stuff such as tours, new album releases .........

I think the obvious suggestion is if you're going to force people to post on one thread about a particular person/subject, it ought to be a sticky at the top of the forum. I really don't see how people can be expected to hunt down a thread that's fallen to page two or three to post something about Janet Jackson if there's a news item, or what-not. You're just creating more work for yourself (and other mods) by not making it a sticky if you're going to treat it like a sticky.

errant said:

luv4u said:

Make some suggestions. I would love to hear from folks who use that forum. If they have some ideas on what they would like to see in that forum or even to improve the music: non-Prince forum, I'm up for that.

Temp stickies would be ideal for stuff such as tours, new album releases .........

I think the obvious suggestion is if you're going to force people to post on one thread about a particular person/subject, it ought to be a sticky at the top of the forum. I really don't see how people can be expected to hunt down a thread that's fallen to page two or three to post something about Janet Jackson if there's a news item, or what-not. You're just creating more work for yourself (and other mods) by not making it a sticky if you're going to treat it like a sticky.

Or create a master sticky thread directory with instructions. Although that would create additional work for mods.

And before someone points out that there is the myorg page which lets you find threads, well, I don't like posting (nor do I like the clutured way subsciptions work) so the myorg page just doesn't work for many folks. Nor do they solve the problem for new visitors to the forum or when a new non-sticky thread is created.

With all this being said, thanks Luv4U for evolving and allowing an open dialog about this sites and in specific your role within it.

[Edited 4/3/11 10:28am]

sosgemini said:

Sosgemini, was a mod during the time of discussion to do with how to deal with the MJ flooding in Music: non-Prince forum. Complaints also came from users in that forum dealing with that as well. Hence, Anxiety (another mod) at the time, came up with the idea of a sticky to deal with the flooding of the music: non-Prince forum. In other words to have one thread one sticky to discuss all things MJ. ...... which..... from that time.... up to now.... has been working for a long time. This site is not Jackson.org.

People who post on the MJ sticky, whether a fan of the man or not, are having no problem using the sticky and seem quite ok with a sticky. When it gets too long it gets replaced by a new fresh thread. The sticky thread has helped tremendously in that forum.

It would be impossible to have a sticky for all musical artists. There are stickies from time to time if let’s say a release of a new album, death of a musical artist, etc. etc. MJ is very much discussed ad nausem.

You helped make the rule, quitting, and now make a living criticizing the other mods.

Anyways......... why fix what has been working for a long time now. Besides, folks in that forum seem to be happy with it. Why change what's working great.

1) Thank you for answering my questions however

2) You can't just up and lock a thread when there is a healthy dialog going on. It's the equivalent of taking your toys and walking away from the sandbox. Poor form. Poor form.

3) Why are you making this personal and about me? I don't diss other mods. I question behavior or actions that I feel are irresponsible, unproffessional or just plain not thought out. Just as the case with the stickys in Music: Non Prince

4) Now can we get to the meat of the discussion?

A) Not sure why you brought up MJ cause I didn't.

B) You say there might be too many threads. Well, for the past six months there's been one artist without a sticky: Janet. Now there is another: Lady Gaga. Are you seriously saying that three arrtist sticky's is too many?

C) You say nobody is complainging...are you insane? People have been complaining about this stuff for a while.

I look forward to your responses to my points and please don't lock or hide this. It was rude of you to have done that to the previous thread in the first place.

Thanks!

ps. I don't know why luv brought up me being a mod during the time the rule was created. I said in the previous thread I agree with the sticky rule. However, I do not agree with the rule that Luv4u created on her own, to create single (non-sticky) threads for artist like Janet and Lady Gaga. It's confusing for new visitors of this site who don't know about her self-created undocumented rule. Plus, it forces all participants of the site to dig, google search or ask where the one single thread is. It makes no sense.

[Edited 3/28/11 10:02am]

Hmmm...

OK I disagree. There are quite a few people who have expressed grievance with the MJ sticky situation and it's because it gets flooded with pictures and gossipy shit.

People who want to talk about the music and specific aspects of it don't want to get their posts mixed up in all that shit. It's not conducive to good conversation. You have someone talking about something interesting in relation to the music, and then someone makes a post with 18 pictures and a couple of people quote it and then when you go to reply it ends up being two pages down the line and people have given up on that topic. It's a bit lame really.

So what if there are quite a few MJ posts at once. He is prob the most popular artist of all time so it's only natural there will be a few posts discussing him.

I don't like the idea of any artist having stickies for covering all topics about them, for previously stated reasons. I know that others feel the same. There are plenty of smart, knowledgeable people here who like to delve into topics at depth.

If there remains an MJ sticky, it should be for non-music purposes ie posting pictures/gushing over them and taboidy stuff. Regular threads discussing ASPECTS OF HIS MUSICAL CAREER, which is what the forum is for as far as I can tell, should be allowed to develop freely and naturally.

Thanks for listening to the feedback.

Oh, and I forgot one of the absolute worst things about having one sticky for an artist:

When you post something, be it a new topic or a response to someone elses post and then very soon after, the thread gets locked because it's reached a massive length and your effort of posting is all in vain because nobody sees it, let alone responds to it!

You gotta agree, that is a HUGE flaw of that kind of system!

It's all about conversation flow. If it doesn't flow, then what's the point?

nd33 said:

Oh, and I forgot one of the absolute worst things about having one sticky for an artist:

When you post something, be it a new topic or a response to someone elses post and then very soon after, the thread gets locked because it's reached a massive length and your effort of posting is all in vain because nobody sees it, let alone responds to it!

You gotta agree, that is a HUGE flaw of that kind of system!

It's all about conversation flow. If it doesn't flow, then what's the point?

Yes it does get locked. Reason being is that many have let me know when the thread gets way ass long past page 25 for instance, folks complain that it takes the thread too long to load for them.

luv4u said:

nd33 said:

Oh, and I forgot one of the absolute worst things about having one sticky for an artist:

When you post something, be it a new topic or a response to someone elses post and then very soon after, the thread gets locked because it's reached a massive length and your effort of posting is all in vain because nobody sees it, let alone responds to it!

You gotta agree, that is a HUGE flaw of that kind of system!

It's all about conversation flow. If it doesn't flow, then what's the point?

Yes it does get locked. Reason being is that many have let me know when the thread gets way ass long past page 25 for instance, folks complain that it takes the thread too long to load for them.

I understand that it gets locked for being too long. But can you understand how the sticky thread makes it virtually impossible to have a good flowing conversation the way a thread that has a specific topic does?

The whole premise of a forum, is conversation.

This is well flawed the way it is...

nd33 said:

luv4u said:

Yes it does get locked. Reason being is that many have let me know when the thread gets way ass long past page 25 for instance, folks complain that it takes the thread too long to load for them.

I understand that it gets locked for being too long. But can you understand how the sticky thread makes it virtually impossible to have a good flowing conversation the way a thread that has a specific topic does?

The whole premise of a forum, is conversation.

This is well flawed the way it is...

Mods agreed during discussion on how to deal with the MJ problem.

Ok what other suggestions do you have for other issues/concerns in that forum?

luv4u said:

nd33 said:

I understand that it gets locked for being too long. But can you understand how the sticky thread makes it virtually impossible to have a good flowing conversation the way a thread that has a specific topic does?

The whole premise of a forum, is conversation.

This is well flawed the way it is...

Mods agreed during discussion on how to deal with the MJ problem.

Ok what other suggestions do you have for other issues/concerns in that forum?

Keep the sticky there for general MJ gushing, pictures, gossip, family business etc and allow threads that are about music topics to go ahead??

Title it "MJ - Non Music Talk etc"?

There are many people here who don't care much at all for the MJ gushing, pictures, gossip, family business etc that goes on constantly in the sticky but would love to be able to talk about him as a music artist freely in other threads when the chance arises.

It would still keep things tidy, but improve the conversation immensely!

luv4u said:

nd33 said:

I understand that it gets locked for being too long. But can you understand how the sticky thread makes it virtually impossible to have a good flowing conversation the way a thread that has a specific topic does?

The whole premise of a forum, is conversation.

This is well flawed the way it is...

Mods agreed during discussion on how to deal with the MJ problem.

Ok what other suggestions do you have for other issues/concerns in that forum?

When did we agree to this? Let's see, I first started my political work in 2004 and I believe I resigned when my first candidate got elected to Congress at the end of 2005. So we are talking about a policy that is the least 6 years old? Even in federal politics, you have representatives having to run every two years and senators running in six. That way, older policies have to be justified by electoral vote. Do you really think you can rely on such old policy to justify action?

I have always been a firm advocate of mods retiring after a certain timeperiod because we as humans evolve and in the case of being an authorative figure--we run the risk of becoming out of touch. So I ask, is it fair to use a six year old policy created by a majority of people who are no longer moderating this site as justification to keep a policy?

I say that as someone who agrees with the MJ sticky rule.

From what I can tell, the primary issue being discussed here is that if posters are being directed to a single thread to post about a particular artist, that it should be made sticky so that it is easy to find and discourages people giving up and just starting a new thread anyway.

The counter argument is that we'd end up with too many stickies in the Music:Non-Prince forum.

It's since been pointed out that there are only a handful of artists that this applies to and so far, all but one of them are part of the Jackson family.

A secondary issue that's been raised is that the MJ thread is very hard to follow, particularly because it regularly needs to be locked and recreated on account of getting unreasonably long. I myself gave up very quickly on trying to follow this thread, despite being a fan of Michael, because it is so disjointed and, in between having very interesting information, contains great long discussions about topics that I have no interest in.

I know that it's often stated that this is not "jackson.org" etc... but there is no doubt that a great number of Prince fans are also MJ fans and this is reflected daily by the vast number of posts that are made about Michael and other members of the Jackson family.

Given that these posts need to be moderated regardless of the format they are in, and it seems to be generally agreed that if they are not made into one thread they would all but dominate the Music:Non-Prince forum, is it worth at least considering making a "Jackson" forum?

Members clearly want to post about the Jacksons.

Having a "Music:Non-Prince" forum opens the door for them to do so.

Mods have to police these posts regardless, even moreso perhaps because they need to shepherd them into one thread, that constantly needs locking and recreating.

So, all that said, is it completely absurd that there be a fourth Music forum solely for the Jacksons at Prince.org?

I realise this doesn't solve the initial sticky issue for the likes of Lady Gaga (hmm, there's probably a pun there I should leave alone) and potentially others in the future, but it would take things down to one sticky (if the one-thread rule was changed to be made sticky by default) and would also make the MJ content infinitely more readable.

I also realise it's a pretty "out-there" suggestion and I apologise if it's one that's been made and rejected many times before - it just seemed like something worth considering.

luv4u said:

nd33 said:

Oh, and I forgot one of the absolute worst things about having one sticky for an artist:

When you post something, be it a new topic or a response to someone elses post and then very soon after, the thread gets locked because it's reached a massive length and your effort of posting is all in vain because nobody sees it, let alone responds to it!

You gotta agree, that is a HUGE flaw of that kind of system!

It's all about conversation flow. If it doesn't flow, then what's the point?

Yes it does get locked. Reason being is that many have let me know when the thread gets way ass long past page 25 for instance, folks complain that it takes the thread too long to load for them.

Something about that doesn't make sense. Not that you are lying, but that those people must be suffering from other problems. How could a super long thread (and by P.org standards, what is a super long thread) make someone's computer load slower unless they were trying to view all pages at one time? You don't actually download data from previous or forthcoming pages in a thread until you access the page directly.

I don't download info from page 6-39425 when I am on page 5. So that logic is bizarre and faulty.

Spinlight said:

luv4u said:

Yes it does get locked. Reason being is that many have let me know when the thread gets way ass long past page 25 for instance, folks complain that it takes the thread too long to load for them.

Something about that doesn't make sense. Not that you are lying, but that those people must be suffering from other problems. How could a super long thread (and by P.org standards, what is a super long thread) make someone's computer load slower unless they were trying to view all pages at one time? You don't actually download data from previous or forthcoming pages in a thread until you access the page directly.

I don't download info from page 6-39425 when I am on page 5. So that logic is bizarre and faulty.

Can't one control how many posts appear per page? So for some, a thread can become really long?

And I wanna address the whole "this ain't jackson.org" disclaimer. It reads kind of childish and rude, IMHO.

sosgemini said:

I agree that the one sticky for MJ does need modifying. I myself don't even bother clicking it because it just becomes too much to follow but my concern with your idea would be it would become to hard to manage for the mods. I could see subjects verying into new gossipy like directions and then what happens? lock them?

I actually like the forum idea but instead of it being exclusively for the Jackson family, why not do a Music-Non Prince Icon forum. That way, MJ, Madonna, Janet (and a couple others) can have their own place with no restrictions on the amount of threads.

sosgemini said:

I agree that the one sticky for MJ does need modifying. I myself don't even bother clicking it because it just becomes too much to follow but my concern with your idea would be it would become to hard to manage for the mods. I could see subjects verying into new gossipy like directions and then what happens? lock them?

I actually like the forum idea but instead of it being exclusively for the Jackson family, why not do a Music-Non Prince Icon forum. That way, MJ, Madonna, Janet (and a couple others) can have their own place with no restrictions on the amount of threads.

I think that if a thread started out with specific intentions and it turned a bit gossipy, so be it!

I think there's enough smart people that are interested in talking about the music to divert that from happening too much though.

I agree with you, I rarely click into the MJ thread either because it's so fricken incoherent!

I do enjoy partaking in some talk about the music though when a topical MJ thread slips through the cracks on the odd occasion, and so do many others!

The icon forum could work too. I just don't see how it's a big deal in the first place if there happens to be multiple threads on an artist in the first place (unless they're pics and bullshit and not really about anything). Some musicians/people are more popular, nothing can be done about that. It's life!

Kudos to all the moderators, past and present. I don't know how you summon the patience to deal with all of the issues. It truly boggles the mind.

^^^I agree with what they say. Sorry for being a loud newbie but either MJ sub-forum or allowing people to post limited numbers of MJ posts on Music:non-Prince forum both sound like a great idea to me...It's not like anyone is going to turn into a Michael fan from being Prince's all of a sudden just because Michael gets discussed a lot...

Elle85n09 said:

Kudos to all the moderators, past and present. I don't know how you summon the patience to deal with all of the issues. It truly boggles the mind.

oh geez