There are threads dealing with different subjects or more specific subjects within a general context that are getting locked. Unfortunately this makes takes away some of this site's quality as a source of information and discussion! What I would suggest is that before a thread gets locked, a careful (maybe a second moderator?) judges whether or not it is a dupe or not. For example the recent thread about specifically evaluating the movie Grafitti Bridge was not a duplicate of the thread called the Grafitti Bridge Era which is more of a picture thread encompassing the movie, album, singles, appearances, concerts, etc. Yet it was locked as a dupe.

In other cases, the threads that are dupes get locked but the better discussion or more repsonses were on that thread, yet they get discarded for a thread that was perhaps created first, but also not active. That in effect detroys the user experience and quality of information. The way to solve that would be to merge duplicate threads instead of locking them. this way everything would be preserved and the edit would be pro-active as opposed to destructive.

It's funny how this site is a microcosm example of both governement accomplishment as an ideal, and then government ineptitude based on human error. In that case a terrorist model would be a hacker taking down the site!

I also post on what is probably the most popular fan site of all, Aint it Cool News (which generates a substantial income and actual industry power at this time as a marketing force), and it's interesting to compare and contrast the way that site works which is completely different, but also has moderators who are very hands off.

that was very.... diplomatic of you.

I have never, ever understood why merging threads was not a technology enabled by the maintainers of this site as it would, ultimately, make the job of mods easier AND it would improve the user experience so that, as ufoclub said, the information is not lost to antiquity/etc.

Since Ben does actually post on here and on HQ/MQ, it would be encouraging if he showed an even general interest in maintaining the site.

Spinlight said:

I have never, ever understood why merging threads was not a technology enabled by the maintainers of this site as it would, ultimately, make the job of mods easier AND it would improve the user experience so that, as ufoclub said, the information is not lost to antiquity/etc.

Since Ben does actually post on here and on HQ/MQ, it would be encouraging if he showed an even general interest in maintaining the site.

he's currently consumed with the annoyances inherent in enrolling in the Red Robin rewards program.

give him time

how much time?

...

[Edited 2/15/11 3:14am]

For example, this indicates an illogical closing of a thread:

http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

Is this one reason so many informative posters of the past have moved on to underground sites to post more than here?

ufoclub said:

For example, this indicates an illogical closing of a thread:

http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

Is this one reason so many informative posters of the past have moved on to underground sites to post more than here?

I doubt that would be why.

It's not illogical closing, but I think it comes down to the opinion of the mod in the end. And to be honest, I'm glad that someone is keeping at least some of these fucking stupid threads locked down. It's too bad the forum tech isn't too advanced because otherwise mods would be able to do a lot more than they currently manage to do. Like merge threads, move nonsense threads to a nonsense "sandbox" subforum like some forums have, distinctly define what each forum is intended for, etc.

Spinlight said:

ufoclub said:

For example, this indicates an illogical closing of a thread:

http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

Is this one reason so many informative posters of the past have moved on to underground sites to post more than here?

I doubt that would be why.

It's not illogical closing, but I think it comes down to the opinion of the mod in the end. And to be honest, I'm glad that someone is keeping at least some of these fucking stupid threads locked down. It's too bad the forum tech isn't too advanced because otherwise mods would be able to do a lot more than they currently manage to do. Like merge threads, move nonsense threads to a nonsense "sandbox" subforum like some forums have, distinctly define what each forum is intended for, etc.

The opinion of what is nonsense is also suspect to the limits of someone's scope of thought. And it's simply a fact that individuals are limited on their own, and that includes you or me. That's why, generally speaking, thought control, censorship, and minority rule are detrimental in the long run to progress or culture.

For example this thread mentioned above that was closed down could start to have some actual thoughtful responses from some people (like the first response hints at), and a view into what kind of perception exists around Prince and his work. It's kind of like if someone a long time ago asked: "What if the world was round? What could lie on the other side?" And someone who is very short sighted shot down, "Quiet, that's nonsense, since we know the world is flat".

If the thread I listed was cut off then why is this thread going? http://prince.org/msg/7/353162

or this one: http://prince.org/msg/7/353164

An example of this would be a while back when a Prince and the occult thread was shut down as nonsense, when in fact he has made the idea of a "Crystal Ball" the theme of an entire album with mention in songs and subtle photographic inclusion in huge close up right on the cover of "Sign o' the Times". And then there's the fact that he has songs like "There's Others Here With Us" in the vault.

The notion of certain threads being shut down is flawed in the sense that it invites short sightedness of an individual moderator to cut off interesting threads. And this has happened and is still happening.

On top of that, a few of the more silly threads are interesting to me, a major reason I come here, and humor and sillyness are also a major part of Prince's work in itself.

So why do you think the thread I first mentioned was locked? http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

ufoclub said:

Spinlight said:

I doubt that would be why.

It's not illogical closing, but I think it comes down to the opinion of the mod in the end. And to be honest, I'm glad that someone is keeping at least some of these fucking stupid threads locked down. It's too bad the forum tech isn't too advanced because otherwise mods would be able to do a lot more than they currently manage to do. Like merge threads, move nonsense threads to a nonsense "sandbox" subforum like some forums have, distinctly define what each forum is intended for, etc.

The opinion of what is nonsense is also suspect to the limits of someone's scope of thought. And it's simply a fact that individuals are limited on their own, and that includes you or me. That's why, generally speaking, thought control, censorship, and minority rule are detrimental in the long run to progress or culture.

For example this thread mentioned above that was closed down could start to have some actual thoughtful responses from some people (like the first response hints at), and a view into what kind of perception exists around Prince and his work. It's kind of like if someone a long time ago asked: "What if the world was round? What could lie on the other side?" And someone who is very short sighted shot down, "Quiet, that's nonsense, since we know the world is flat".

If the thread I listed was cut off then why is this thread going? http://prince.org/msg/7/353162

or this one: http://prince.org/msg/7/353164

An example of this would be a while back when a Prince and the occult thread was shut down as nonsense, when in fact he has made the idea of a "Crystal Ball" the theme of an entire album with mention in songs and subtle photographic inclusion in huge close up right on the cover of "Sign o' the Times". And then there's the fact that he has songs like "There's Others Here With Us" in the vault.

The notion of certain threads being shut down is flawed in the sense that it invites short sightedness of an individual moderator to cut off interesting threads. And this has happened and is still happening.

On top of that, a few of the more silly threads are interesting to me, a major reason I come here, and humor and sillyness are also a major part of Prince's work in itself.

So why do you think the thread I first mentioned was locked? http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

Mikey's threads were in jest, to make fun of those other ones. Obviously, they will be locked in due time. He knows that.

I don't think its minority rule to expect people to post a certain way here. I think that's called quality control. The forums being overrun by Akashic Ahkenatum Pyramid Egypt threads or "What would Prince's baby look like today" threads or "Prince Eye Luv U" threads would be a nightmare.

I was under the impression that by posting here, you agreed to the rules and to the lay of the land. Might be that the lay has changed over time (and does, consistently), but there is still (imo) no reason for bullshit teengirl threads like "What is Prince's geneaology?"....

Spinlight said:

ufoclub said:

The opinion of what is nonsense is also suspect to the limits of someone's scope of thought. And it's simply a fact that individuals are limited on their own, and that includes you or me. That's why, generally speaking, thought control, censorship, and minority rule are detrimental in the long run to progress or culture.

For example this thread mentioned above that was closed down could start to have some actual thoughtful responses from some people (like the first response hints at), and a view into what kind of perception exists around Prince and his work. It's kind of like if someone a long time ago asked: "What if the world was round? What could lie on the other side?" And someone who is very short sighted shot down, "Quiet, that's nonsense, since we know the world is flat".

If the thread I listed was cut off then why is this thread going? http://prince.org/msg/7/353162

or this one: http://prince.org/msg/7/353164

An example of this would be a while back when a Prince and the occult thread was shut down as nonsense, when in fact he has made the idea of a "Crystal Ball" the theme of an entire album with mention in songs and subtle photographic inclusion in huge close up right on the cover of "Sign o' the Times". And then there's the fact that he has songs like "There's Others Here With Us" in the vault.

The notion of certain threads being shut down is flawed in the sense that it invites short sightedness of an individual moderator to cut off interesting threads. And this has happened and is still happening.

On top of that, a few of the more silly threads are interesting to me, a major reason I come here, and humor and sillyness are also a major part of Prince's work in itself.

So why do you think the thread I first mentioned was locked? http://prince.org/msg/7/352990

Mikey's threads were in jest, to make fun of those other ones. Obviously, they will be locked in due time. He knows that.

I don't think its minority rule to expect people to post a certain way here. I think that's called quality control. The forums being overrun by Akashic Ahkenatum Pyramid Egypt threads or "What would Prince's baby look like today" threads or "Prince Eye Luv U" threads would be a nightmare.

I was under the impression that by posting here, you agreed to the rules and to the lay of the land. Might be that the lay has changed over time (and does, consistently), but there is still (imo) no reason for bullshit teengirl threads like "What is Prince's geneaology?"....

But the practice of cutting out what are considered bullshit threads to one individual, has also cut out quite legitimate threads. So the only thing to do in order to keep the site from snipping relevant threads is to allow ALL threads. No one has to read through threads they don't care about.

This is basic philosophy about how things should progressively work not only in a supposed forum about Prince and related subjects and fans, but in bigger more important things like the press, news, government, etc.

Personally I don't believe in censorship of threads, and HATE any kind of conservative kneejerk reaction, especially if its on a Prince fan website. Prince himself has practiced explicit freedoms in the past, and freedom to voice, more and more, all manner of bizarre beliefs and subjects. This site should should reflect that.

I guess though things like this happen historically (and this is just a microcosm), and eventually the organization is sabotaged, abandoned, or becomes completely irrelevant. Prince's own attempts at moderation of Housequake.com caused that site to kill itself. On this particular site, you can see how many have just left and taken to facebook who wanted to socialize. And some serious fandom moves on to a secret site.

ufoclub said:

Spinlight said:

Mikey's threads were in jest, to make fun of those other ones. Obviously, they will be locked in due time. He knows that.

I don't think its minority rule to expect people to post a certain way here. I think that's called quality control. The forums being overrun by Akashic Ahkenatum Pyramid Egypt threads or "What would Prince's baby look like today" threads or "Prince Eye Luv U" threads would be a nightmare.

I was under the impression that by posting here, you agreed to the rules and to the lay of the land. Might be that the lay has changed over time (and does, consistently), but there is still (imo) no reason for bullshit teengirl threads like "What is Prince's geneaology?"....

But the practice of cutting out what are considered bullshit threads to one individual, has also cut out quite legitimate threads. So the only thing to do in order to keep the site from snipping relevant threads is to allow ALL threads. No one has to read through threads they don't care about.

This is basic philosophy about how things should progressively work not only in a supposed forum about Prince and related subjects and fans, but in bigger more important things like the press, news, government, etc.

Personally I don't believe in censorship of threads, and HATE any kind of conservative kneejerk reaction, especially if its on a Prince fan website. Prince himself has practiced explicit freedoms in the past, and freedom to voice, more and more, all manner of bizarre beliefs and subjects. This site should should reflect that.

I guess though things like this happen historically (and this is just a microcosm), and eventually the organization is sabotaged, abandoned, or becomes completely irrelevant. Prince's own attempts at moderation of Housequake.com caused that site to kill itself. On this particular site, you can see how many have just left and taken to facebook who wanted to socialize. And some serious fandom moves on to a secret site.

I think you don't give the current lineup of regular posters enough credit.

There has always been shit like this on the org. The org is no better or worse than before. It gets no fewer visits, that's for sure. The posting content is relatively the same and there's a similar cast of characters.

I guess what I've hinted at before is that there should be a sort of "sandbox" or "jungle gym" type free for all subforum which could include posts of the silliest nature. But, in general, there is not a big draw to keep coming back to a website where the primary discussion is if Prince's penis is cute in this pic or that pic, etc.

Spinlight said:

ufoclub said:

But the practice of cutting out what are considered bullshit threads to one individual, has also cut out quite legitimate threads. So the only thing to do in order to keep the site from snipping relevant threads is to allow ALL threads. No one has to read through threads they don't care about.

This is basic philosophy about how things should progressively work not only in a supposed forum about Prince and related subjects and fans, but in bigger more important things like the press, news, government, etc.

Personally I don't believe in censorship of threads, and HATE any kind of conservative kneejerk reaction, especially if its on a Prince fan website. Prince himself has practiced explicit freedoms in the past, and freedom to voice, more and more, all manner of bizarre beliefs and subjects. This site should should reflect that.

I guess though things like this happen historically (and this is just a microcosm), and eventually the organization is sabotaged, abandoned, or becomes completely irrelevant. Prince's own attempts at moderation of Housequake.com caused that site to kill itself. On this particular site, you can see how many have just left and taken to facebook who wanted to socialize. And some serious fandom moves on to a secret site.

I think you don't give the current lineup of regular posters enough credit.

There has always been shit like this on the org. The org is no better or worse than before. It gets no fewer visits, that's for sure. The posting content is relatively the same and there's a similar cast of characters.

I guess what I've hinted at before is that there should be a sort of "sandbox" or "jungle gym" type free for all subforum which could include posts of the silliest nature. But, in general, there is not a big draw to keep coming back to a website where the primary discussion is if Prince's penis is cute in this pic or that pic, etc.

Actually some of the most hilarious (in a brilliant creative way) posters past are gone, and I don't see that element here too often anymore. It's a huge difference, in that years ago I could show many hilarious threads on here to outsider friends. Now there is not much to entertain in that way. I used to really get a kick out of scanning threads in all sections a lot more, but I think those people either got bored, or in some cases were censored or banned. It could also be that people are generally getting older.

I really have to respect AintItCoolNews for their normally complete hands off policy. It doesn't matter if it's silly nonsense flames or someone from the industry posting rare info... it's almost all allowed. It's too bad they aren't organized in a way that encourages discussion as opposed to one-off posts.

ufoclub said:

There are threads dealing with different subjects or more specific subjects within a general context that are getting locked. Unfortunately this makes takes away some of this site's quality as a source of information and discussion! What I would suggest is that before a thread gets locked, a careful (maybe a second moderator?) judges whether or not it is a dupe or not. For example the recent thread about specifically evaluating the movie Grafitti Bridge was not a duplicate of the thread called the Grafitti Bridge Era which is more of a picture thread encompassing the movie, album, singles, appearances, concerts, etc. Yet it was locked as a dupe.

In other cases, the threads that are dupes get locked but the better discussion or more repsonses were on that thread, yet they get discarded for a thread that was perhaps created first, but also not active. That in effect detroys the user experience and quality of information. The way to solve that would be to merge duplicate threads instead of locking them. this way everything would be preserved and the edit would be pro-active as opposed to destructive.

It's funny how this site is a microcosm example of both governement accomplishment as an ideal, and then government ineptitude based on human error. In that case a terrorist model would be a hacker taking down the site!

I also post on what is probably the most popular fan site of all, Aint it Cool News (which generates a substantial income and actual industry power at this time as a marketing force), and it's interesting to compare and contrast the way that site works which is completely different, but also has moderators who are very hands off.

that was my thread xD i didnt think it was a dupe either, for that reason. thats why i bothered to post the thing in the first placee.. but oh well, "mod has the final say"

ufoclub said:

Spinlight said:

I think you don't give the current lineup of regular posters enough credit.

There has always been shit like this on the org. The org is no better or worse than before. It gets no fewer visits, that's for sure. The posting content is relatively the same and there's a similar cast of characters.

I guess what I've hinted at before is that there should be a sort of "sandbox" or "jungle gym" type free for all subforum which could include posts of the silliest nature. But, in general, there is not a big draw to keep coming back to a website where the primary discussion is if Prince's penis is cute in this pic or that pic, etc.

Actually some of the most hilarious (in a brilliant creative way) posters past are gone, and I don't see that element here too often anymore. It's a huge difference, in that years ago I could show many hilarious threads on here to outsider friends. Now there is not much to entertain in that way. I used to really get a kick out of scanning threads in all sections a lot more, but I think those people either got bored, or in some cases were censored or banned. It could also be that people are generally getting older.

I really have to respect AintItCoolNews for their normally complete hands off policy. It doesn't matter if it's silly nonsense flames or someone from the industry posting rare info... it's almost all allowed. It's too bad they aren't organized in a way that encourages discussion as opposed to one-off posts.

That's just it. I think we have those people here today. I really hesitate to start naming names because then I feel its too much of a popularity contest. Hey, posters come and posters go. There's plenty of people right now on Prince.org who can bring legitimate discussion to the table. What's left to discuss? The small facts thread languished eventually (I think too much 2nd hand knowledge intimidates people).

What it boils down to is that the quality of the discussion comes from the contributors. It's like Wiki. And I don't necessarily think some form of rules and regulations are bad. I'm into free speech and I think silly threads should enjoy the same crack at a lifespan as the legitimate ones, but only if the people who want to contribute to those respective threads keep them alive.

I know the guy who runs Oh No They Didn't! and am very good friends with one of the mods there. Their approach is similar to AICN in that it is largely hands off. The entire community, which commands an audience of about 100k a day, is moderated by about the same amount of people as the org is and they have much better success. So what's the difference? Not a whole lot - threads on the org aren't exactly on crazy ass lockdown*.

Could it be that Prince himself inhibits discussion on this site, man? Honestly, take a step back and see what people are given to work with. Someone here, man I really need to find it, made a post that was SO spot on about how Prince is only interested in doing exactly what he wants to do and if it coincides with the fans' wishes then wonderful, but if it doesn't then tough shit. I think RodeoSchro did the post (and he's a FANTASTIC old school poster who still is sharp as a tack). So, there's not a whole lot of shit going on in the Prince world that is terribly interesting and this puts a huge damper on the community as a whole.

I remember when I was big into the Courtney Love community for a long time. Her original site, Kitty Radio, was poised to be the ultimate fan site as her webmistress was a tough, DIY broad who was wicked intelligent and totally built up this huge community for Courtney. When Courtney's professional life began to slump and her personal life became a wreck, she lashed out at the fan community and dissolved the group. I had never seen a celebrity so hellbent on unmaking since, well, Prince. Interestingly enough, her change of heart happened around the same time as Prince's. Hers was brought on by coke, pills, and crack cocaine. What is Prince's excuse other than that he is a shill?

* If people disagree with the mods, I encourage them to discuss the issue with the mod. Unfortunately, this garbage-coded site is so fucked up and broken that the tools are outrageously out of date and the mods have very little actual power from what I can tell. The most obvious clue was the lack of thread-merging, which is just hilarious on a forum site in 2011.

I have long been an advocate for splitting the M&M forum into a more serious "music" forum and a "more" forum for those that want to comb through the finer points of cock outlines in pants and such. Ultimately, as Spinlight has noted, the only person that can make that change is Ben.

I can say I fully support it.

UFOClub - Aintitcool does not let users post threads and their users get banned instantly for infractions are far less that what is allowed here. They also lack a report button. As it has been noted hundreds of times here, we cannot read every thread on the site, and thay certainly can't over there either. It's not a very good comparison. How much fun would this site be if only mods could post threads? Certainly all of the threads you talked about enjoying would never have existed.

Regardless, yes some updates are badly needed, but the moderators cannot make them. Only one person owns this site.