I'm a member of prince.org for more than 5 years now, and have not only enjoyed a nice discussion here and there about Prince, but have also participated a bit in the P & R forum.

After a while of not really being active (for various reasons), I found that this particular forum apparently has become the new playground for testing out anti-semitic propaganda. One particular thread was removed by the mods, but was allowed to come back to the public just recently. And one particular user seems to be very obsessed with spreading lots of nice stuff about Israel, including the comparison of Israeli governmental action with that of the Nazis.

Dear Mods, dear Ben: Are you really serious about that? I mean, do you want this website to become a biotope for content like that, that you could also find on a Neo-Nazi website or a homepage of Islamistic fanatics?

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech anymore. In the site rules it is clearly said: "This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech."

I hope for a careful review of what is currently going on in the P & R forum. Otherwise I'll have to accept the consequences - that this is not the website anymore that I once subscribed to!

[Edited 6/14/10 4:25am]

I don't bother going into the Politics and Religion forum, but that sounds like what I would expect. I have notice a strong undercurrent of ant-gay innuendo and straight up homophobia on all of the other forums though. It would seem as Prince moves backwards, so does the org.

there's still a P&R forum here?

errant said:

there's still a P&R forum here?

On a serious note, I have known a few orgers that left due to the lack of respect and inability to express their views on the matters of Israel.

What a shame.

Well, I guess it is ok for some, those that are not interested in actually debating.

Have you reported the posts that you feel are anti-semitic?

If you are reporting something as against site rules and a mod decides not to delete them, you should at least get an explination back of why we disagreed.

Since I don't mod that forum, I can't really say without knowing exactly which posts you're talking about...

EmancipationLover said:

I'm a member of prince.org for more than 5 years now, and have not only enjoyed a nice discussion here and there about Prince, but have also participated a bit in the P & R forum.

After a while of not really being active (for various reasons), I found that this particular forum apparently has become the new playground for testing out anti-semitic propaganda. One particular thread was removed by the mods, but was allowed to come back to the public just recently. And one particular user seems to be very obsessed with spreading lots of nice stuff about Israel, including the comparison of Israeli governmental action with that of the Nazis.

Dear Mods, dear Ben: Are you really serious about that? I mean, do you want this website to become a biotope for content like that, that you could also find on a Neo-Nazi website or a homepage of Islamistic fanatics?

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech anymore. In the site rules it is clearly said: "This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech."

I hope for a careful review of what is currently going on in the P & R forum. Otherwise I'll have to accept the consequences - that this is not the website anymore that I once subscribed to!

[Edited 6/14/10 4:25am]

I don't think you're being fair here. The user you're talking about was making a series of angry criticisms of the the Israeli government and then the state of Israel, in a way which I also found to be somewhat overblown (as I told him on the thread). However, he in no way slighted Jewish people in general, brought up any negative stereotypes, or did any of the things that could legitimately be called anti-Semitic, so I think it's wrong to use that term.

I do think that that thread should possibly have been locked though, as it had ceased to really deal with the subject of the original post, and was just becoming a bit of an out-of-control shitstorm.

deebee said:

EmancipationLover said:

I'm a member of prince.org for more than 5 years now, and have not only enjoyed a nice discussion here and there about Prince, but have also participated a bit in the P & R forum.

After a while of not really being active (for various reasons), I found that this particular forum apparently has become the new playground for testing out anti-semitic propaganda. One particular thread was removed by the mods, but was allowed to come back to the public just recently. And one particular user seems to be very obsessed with spreading lots of nice stuff about Israel, including the comparison of Israeli governmental action with that of the Nazis.

Dear Mods, dear Ben: Are you really serious about that? I mean, do you want this website to become a biotope for content like that, that you could also find on a Neo-Nazi website or a homepage of Islamistic fanatics?

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech anymore. In the site rules it is clearly said: "This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech."

I hope for a careful review of what is currently going on in the P & R forum. Otherwise I'll have to accept the consequences - that this is not the website anymore that I once subscribed to!

[Edited 6/14/10 4:25am]

I don't think you're being fair here. The user you're talking about was making a series of angry criticisms of the the Israeli government and then the state of Israel, in a way which I also found to be somewhat overblown (as I told him on the thread). However, he in no way slighted Jewish people in general, brought up any negative stereotypes, or did any of the things that could legitimately be called anti-Semitic, so I think it's wrong to use that term.

I do think that that thread should possibly have been locked though, as it had ceased to really deal with the subject of the original post, and was just becoming a bit of an out-of-control shitstorm.

O.k., so let's make a test here. I've got two quotes for you:

1) "Therefore Israel has no right to exist. The only moral solution is to end Israel."

2) "Of course it must be possible to critize the cooperation with Israel. [...] A state which steals and kills cannot be a partner. [...] There must not be extra rights for the Zionist state."

One of the quotes has been made in a previously hidden, now re-opened thread on prince.org. The other one is my translation of an extract from a statement of a well-known German Neo-Nazi leader.

Guess who said what?

EmancipationLover said:

deebee said:

I don't think you're being fair here. The user you're talking about was making a series of angry criticisms of the the Israeli government and then the state of Israel, in a way which I also found to be somewhat overblown (as I told him on the thread). However, he in no way slighted Jewish people in general, brought up any negative stereotypes, or did any of the things that could legitimately be called anti-Semitic, so I think it's wrong to use that term.

I do think that that thread should possibly have been locked though, as it had ceased to really deal with the subject of the original post, and was just becoming a bit of an out-of-control shitstorm.

O.k., so let's make a test here. I've got two quotes for you:

1) "Therefore Israel has no right to exist. The only moral solution is to end Israel."

2) "Of course it must be possible to critize the cooperation with Israel. [...] A state which steals and kills cannot be a partner. [...] There must not be extra rights for the Zionist state."

One of the quotes has been made in a previously hidden, now re-opened thread on prince.org. The other one is my translation of an extract from a statement of a well-known German Neo-Nazi leader.

Guess who said what?

I'm not interested in playing guessing games about this. I think his statements on Israel were overblown, and I said so. I also said to the same orger on another thread just now that people should try as best as possible to avoid making statements on this topic that are open to being misread. It remains the case, however, that criticism of a state, which is a political entity, is not the same thing as expressing a prejudice against an entire ethnoreligious community of people. If the latter does happen, I'm fully behind reporting it and not allowing it to stand. I think it's misguided to conflate the two things, though.

you shouldn't get your payots in a twist cuz some dumb-ass posts shit on the internet.

there's an ignore button somewhere.

PS: biotope? wtf?

errant said:

PS: biotope? wtf?

biotope.

Well, let me be the first to say I'm adding that to my list of potential alter account names.

The P&R forum isn't the only forum going to hell in a handbasket.

Just finished reading a thread in Prince Non Music forum and rabid talk of "Pro-Zionists" forces being behind an "assasination" of a hip hop star borders on lunatic fringe mentality.

squirrelgrease said:

I don't bother going into the Politics and Religion forum, but that sounds like what I would expect. I have notice a strong undercurrent of ant-gay innuendo and straight up homophobia on all of the other forums though. It would seem as Prince moves backwards, so does the org.

I've noticed it too, and it often goes unsnipped.

meow85 said:

squirrelgrease said:

I don't bother going into the Politics and Religion forum, but that sounds like what I would expect. I have notice a strong undercurrent of ant-gay innuendo and straight up homophobia on all of the other forums though. It would seem as Prince moves backwards, so does the org.

I've noticed it too, and it often goes unsnipped.

If you believe it goes against site rules, then report it please. Mods cannot be everywhere at all times.

luv4u said:

meow85 said:

I've noticed it too, and it often goes unsnipped.

If you believe it goes against site rules, then report it please. Mods cannot be everywhere at all times.

If I reported every instance I see, some days I'd just be hitting the Report button all day.

meow85 said:

luv4u said:

If you believe it goes against site rules, then report it please. Mods cannot be everywhere at all times.

If I reported every instance I see, some days I'd just be hitting the Report button all day.

I'll provide bandages for your sore finger

TheVoid said:

biotope.

Well, let me be the first to say I'm adding that to my list of potential alter account names.

Sounds like something you'd need to get surgically removed

If I am correct, the discussion that you may be referring to had to do with Isreal's attack on the Turkish relief vessel headed for the Palesinians where Isreali soldiers shot and killed an unarmed man aboard an unarmed relief vessel carrying medical supplies for Palestinians.

Understand that when incidents like this happen, no matter what the country is involved, it is going to bring up very strong emotions in everyone. Isreal is no exception. Now, if people are speaking hateful things about Jewish people in particular, that should be reported. Listen, people criticize what is happening in Sudan / Darfur all the time and I don't take it that people are being Anti-African, I just take it that they see injustices. Now if people were to start calling Sudanese people racist names, I would have a problem with that. In Uganda they are proposing to make homsoexuality punishable by death!! If anyone wants to sound off about how absolutely crazy, demonic and nazi-like that is...I have no problem with that...because it is. However when you start to attack races of people, or people basedon their gender, or sexuality etc. I think that's where the real problem lies.

I don't think people should refrain from discussing injustices that are occurring in Isreal anymore than they should not refrain from discussing them as they occur in any other nation across the globe.

I'm sorry if you felt that your faith was being attacked. Wanna hear a bad joke....people attack Prince's faith all the time. Seriously though, report anything you feel is unjust.

TheVoid said:

biotope.

Well, let me be the first to say I'm adding that to my list of potential alter account names.

Please tell me that's not a picture of Chocolate1! It's so small I can't tell...Lawd you and your KY targets

you can be antiZionist without being antiSemetic .

ehuffnsd said:

you can be antiZionist without being antiSemetic .

Are you not aware of Zionists that comes from all racial backgrounds? Pat Robertson is a perfect example of a white male Zionist, and many orgers dislike or hate THIS man with a passion! And lets not forget the black male Zionist by the name of Barack Obama, a man that many orgers (including myself) voted for USA President.

Just saying.

TonyVanDam said:

ehuffnsd said:

you can be antiZionist without being antiSemetic .

Are you not aware of Zionists that comes from all racial backgrounds? Pat Robertson is a perfect example of a white male Zionist, and many orgers dislike or hate THIS man with a passion! And lets not forget the black male Zionist by the name of Barack Obama, a man that many orgers (including myself) voted for USA President.

Just saying.

Christian Evangalical Zionist are the worse! they only want a state of israel hoping that it will bring the end of the world they are waiting for.

ehuffnsd said:

you can be antiZionist without being antiSemetic .

Wrong!

You can criticise Israel without being anti-semitic - no problem!

But being anti-zionist does not mean you want to criticise Israel, it means you want Israel to disappear from the surface of this planet. And this, in turn, means you choose to ignore the whole track record of anti-semitism which has led to the founding of Israel. It also means you ignore the fact that zionism was an exotic political idea with only few supporters until a guy named Adolf Hitler came along and decided to kill Jewish people in gas chambers, which was what made zionism a much stronger political movement.

You are blinded by the fact that in the US, there is a strange tendency that right-wing ultra-religious freaks like to pose as extreme pro-Israel activists. The problem is that you cannot choose who declares to be your friend, so Israel is really not responsible for Robertson or whoever.

But if you decide to oppose such people by choosing to be an "anti-zionist", then that's like saying you become vegetarian because Robertson eats meat.

EmancipationLover said:

ehuffnsd said:

you can be antiZionist without being antiSemetic .

Wrong!

You can criticise Israel without being anti-semitic - no problem!

But being anti-zionist does not mean you want to criticise Israel, it means you want Israel to disappear from the surface of this planet. And this, in turn, means you choose to ignore the whole track record of anti-semitism which has led to the founding of Israel. It also means you ignore the fact that zionism was an exotic political idea with only few supporters until a guy named Adolf Hitler came along and decided to kill Jewish people in gas chambers, which was what made zionism a much stronger political movement.

You are blinded by the fact that in the US, there is a strange tendency that right-wing ultra-religious freaks like to pose as extreme pro-Israel activists. The problem is that you cannot choose who declares to be your friend, so Israel is really not responsible for Robertson or whoever.

But if you decide to oppose such people by choosing to be an "anti-zionist", then that's like saying you become vegetarian because Robertson eats meat.

i realize the Jewish people have had problems and issues in the past. but the same could be said for just about every other minority. that doesn't mean they have the right to go in and uproot people and claim a land is theirs just because of some of fairy tale. i don't agree with a Christian state, i don't agree with a Muslim state and i don't agree with a Jewish state.

ehuffnsd said:

EmancipationLover said:

Wrong!

You can criticise Israel without being anti-semitic - no problem!

But being anti-zionist does not mean you want to criticise Israel, it means you want Israel to disappear from the surface of this planet. And this, in turn, means you choose to ignore the whole track record of anti-semitism which has led to the founding of Israel. It also means you ignore the fact that zionism was an exotic political idea with only few supporters until a guy named Adolf Hitler came along and decided to kill Jewish people in gas chambers, which was what made zionism a much stronger political movement.

You are blinded by the fact that in the US, there is a strange tendency that right-wing ultra-religious freaks like to pose as extreme pro-Israel activists. The problem is that you cannot choose who declares to be your friend, so Israel is really not responsible for Robertson or whoever.

But if you decide to oppose such people by choosing to be an "anti-zionist", then that's like saying you become vegetarian because Robertson eats meat.

i realize the Jewish people have had problems and issues in the past. but the same could be said for just about every other minority. that doesn't mean they have the right to go in and uproot people and claim a land is theirs just because of some of fairy tale. i don't agree with a Christian state, i don't agree with a Muslim state and i don't agree with a Jewish state.

"Issues"? So I guess you can name the numerous other minorities which have been put into concentration camps and were systematically killed in gas chambers - and where this has been the result of a long-term oppression of this particular minority.

Your misconception is that Israel is a somehow religously motivated entity. This is just not true, because being "Jewish" does not necessarily involve a religious belief, it is - first and foremost - an ethnic term. One of my best friends is Jewish and hardcore atheist, but if I came to him explaining that he isn't Jewish then, he would laugh his ass off. In Judaism, you are considered Jewish if you have a Jewish mother. It's an ethnic group we're talking about, just as we call Arabs Arabs, only that this ethnic group happens to be culturally linked to a certain religion (at least those of them who are religious). So the Jewish state Israel is completely different from, let's say, the Muslim state Iran.

EmancipationLover said:

ehuffnsd said:

i realize the Jewish people have had problems and issues in the past. but the same could be said for just about every other minority. that doesn't mean they have the right to go in and uproot people and claim a land is theirs just because of some of fairy tale. i don't agree with a Christian state, i don't agree with a Muslim state and i don't agree with a Jewish state.

"Issues"? So I guess you can name the numerous other minorities which have been put into concentration camps and were systematically killed in gas chambers - and where this has been the result of a long-term oppression of this particular minority.

Your misconception is that Israel is a somehow religously motivated entity. This is just not true, because being "Jewish" does not necessarily involve a religious belief, it is - first and foremost - an ethnic term. One of my best friends is Jewish and hardcore atheist, but if I came to him explaining that he isn't Jewish then, he would laugh his ass off. In Judaism, you are considered Jewish if you have a Jewish mother. It's an ethnic group we're talking about, just as we call Arabs Arabs, only that this ethnic group happens to be culturally linked to a certain religion (at least those of them who are religious). So the Jewish state Israel is completely different from, let's say, the Muslim state Iran.

Native Americans for one were systematicly killed and their culture destroyed.