Allow me to blow off some steam.

It appears about a dozen people were temp-banned Monday by luv4u, based upon their requests to hear "Hot Summer". I was one of them. These bans were wrong, IMHO, for a couple reasons:

1. They were retroactive. Luv4u posted her warning well AFTER I had requested a way to listen to the song. In fact, the warning was posted after most of us that were temp-banned had made the posts in question. It was a retroactive decision. Had luv4u posted her warning prior to my post, I would never have asked for a way to hear the song. For the record, here's the warning:

[ATTENTION FOLKS !!!! - No asking for, hinting for, orgnoting for, wishing for or any other variation of asking for this song. Temp bans will be handed out left right and centre. I shit you not!! Now smarten up ! - luv4u]

2. This song is NOT a bootleg. It's been authorized to be played publicly by Prince, yet it is not offered for sale. What other way is there to here it than to ask if it's up somewhere? This is not, IMHO, the same thing as asking to hear, for example, the Small Club concert. That is a performance that Prince has NOT authorized to be played for the public, but "Hot Summer" WAS.

I might be wrong about this. But my feeling is that luv4u went over the line with this. I've made over 15,000 posts, and have never asked for a bootleg. I've never been banned or anything else. Same with some of the others that got the temp ban.

Considering that most of us made the allegedly-offending posts BEFORE luv4u posted her warning, and that many of us that were banned are NOT "the usual suspects", I think it's clear that at best, this was a misunderstanding of what constitutes a bootleg, and at worst, luv4u acted with an inappropriate hair trigger. IMHO, luv4u owes us an apology.

My two cents.

Hear, hear. I was banned, too - eight hours after I said, "I'm sure some kind, generous soul recorded the song. " Nothing more than that.

The rules state, "No requests to copy." I did not request a copy. I said I was sure someone had one. Eight hours after the fact, we suddenly have new rules - "no hinting" and "no orgnoting." These were never spelled out prior to the action taken.

Like RodeoSchro, I have never been banned from this site. I have diligently abided by the rules as stated. It is simply not fair to make up new rules on the fly and punish people for "disobeying."

You can try to contact Ben. Good luck!

[Edited 6/9/10 7:35am]

Yeah, that was kind of foul, especially since it was without warning.

I've been on here for years, without breaking any rules... ignoring requests for info on P, etc.

I admit that me saying, "I'm sure I'll get it in the PM..." could be construed as a violation of the rules, but I would've appreciated a warning before being banned.

Giovanni777 said:

Yeah, that was kind of foul, especially since it was without warning.

I've been on here for years, without breaking any rules... ignoring requests for info on P, etc.

I admit that me saying, "I'm sure I'll get it in the PM..." could be construed as a violation of the rules, but I would've appreciated a warning before being banned.

So I found out the hard way, you can get a ban without warning or your comments being snipped.

They don't even have to give you a reason.

Wow, for real with this? I had no idea. How silly.

My guess is this was a simple misunderstanding...

Same thing happened over here. I was like DAYUM. I've been on here since the beginning with thousands of posts and never committed a ban-able offense.

I never asked for a link, I never provided a link in any posting. I did provide the link to drfb's page where people could listen.

I had no idea asking people to PM/orgnote me without any specific reference to purpose, would be something that would get me banned. Kinda whack to find out after the fact.

Glad it was just for one day though

CarrieMpls said:

My guess is this was a simple misunderstanding...

I know this bell can't be unrung, but if we really didn't do anything wrong, an apology from luv4u would be nice.

Without knowing what exactly was posted (as I don’t moderate in that forum and didn’t handle this myself), if folks were asking where they could listen to or find a legit stream of the song, that’s OK.

If folks were asking or joking about where they could “get” (i.e. download) the song, that’s not.

We will often err on the side of being cautious in these matters to avoid legal issues and there are warnings all over the site about this.

To me it sounds like a few of these may have been snip-worthy and a few may not have been. As for the banning, I think the extreme measures were likely taken as there were LOTS of posts coming all in at once and it was the quickest way to ensure action was taken with a minimum of issues on the site’s side.

Luv will have to chime in for herself, though. Just my take.

The list of folks that were banned:

Genesia

Giovanni777

organgrinder

damn

NuPwrSoul

Shorty

Bfunkthe1

Joyinrepatition

Markk

Dave1992

aiden

ludwig

minneapolisFunq

PicklesMcMillan

liv4love

funkyhead

RumandRaisin

kaine

kimrachell

rossco

RodeoSchro

.

[Edited 6/9/10 9:00am]

CarrieMpls said:

Without knowing what exactly was posted (as I don’t moderate in that forum and didn’t handle this myself), if folks were asking where they could listen to or find a legit stream of the song, that’s OK.

If folks were asking or joking about where they could “get” (i.e. download) the song, that’s not.

We will often err on the side of being cautious in these matters to avoid legal issues and there are warnings all over the site about this.

To me it sounds like a few of these may have been snip-worthy and a few may not have been. As for the banning, I think the extreme measures were likely taken as there were LOTS of posts coming all in at once and it was the quickest way to ensure action was taken with a minimum of issues on the site’s side.

Luv will have to chime in for herself, though. Just my take.

I don't have a problem with anything you said. The main issue I have is that luv4u posted a warning that was extremely broad-based, and then retroactively banned anyone that came within 100 miles of that warning.

Had she posted the warning before I made my post, I wouldn't have posted the way I did. I would have disagreed with her stance, but at least I would have known what the rules for that thread were, and would have abided by them, as I have for the past 15+ years and 15,000 posts.

CarrieMpls said:

Without knowing what exactly was posted (as I don’t moderate in that forum and didn’t handle this myself), if folks were asking where they could listen to or find a legit stream of the song, that’s OK.

If folks were asking or joking about where they could “get” (i.e. download) the song, that’s not.

We will often err on the side of being cautious in these matters to avoid legal issues and there are warnings all over the site about this.

To me it sounds like a few of these may have been snip-worthy and a few may not have been. As for the banning, I think the extreme measures were likely taken as there were LOTS of posts coming all in at once and it was the quickest way to ensure action was taken with a minimum of issues on the site’s side.

Luv will have to chime in for herself, though. Just my take.

I do have another question though, that I'd like your input on. Specifically, is "Hot Summer" a bootleg?

My understanding/definition of a bootleg is a performance that Prince has not authorized to be played for or sold to the public. That can be an unreleased song or a concert performance.

"Hot Summer" WAS authorized by Prince to be played for the public. And it is NOT for sale anywhere. So, do you think that makes it a bootleg?

Giovanni777 said:

The list of folks that were banned:

Genesia

Giovanni777

organgrinder

damn

NuPwrSoul

Shorty

Bfunkthe1

Joyinrepatition

Markk

Dave1992

aiden

ludwig

minneapolisFunq

PicklesMcMillan

liv4love

funkyhead

RumandRaisin

kaine

kimrachell

rossco

RodeoSchro

.

[Edited 6/9/10 9:00am]

LOL! I'm not mad... I was in good company

And I feel Luv on being overly cautious--sometimes that's the best policy esp with our litigious friend.

surely by now you've grown accustomed to her willy-nilly style of moderation.

errant said:

surely by now you've grown accustomed to her willy-nilly style of moderation.

So that's why i was banned! Thanks for the courtesy orgnote letting me know why mods. Had to find out here. Nice one.

Oh, and i merely requested a fairy visit me as i recall. But not a hairy one.

I didn't ask for shit.

errant said:

surely by now you've grown accustomed to her willy-nilly style of moderation.

I've never had a problem with her or any other mod. Which, I guess, is why after 15,000 posts, this came as a bit of a surprise.

Giovanni777 said:

The list of folks that were banned:

Genesia

Giovanni777

organgrinder

damn

NuPwrSoul

Shorty

Bfunkthe1

Joyinrepatition

Markk

Dave1992

aiden

ludwig

minneapolisFunq

PicklesMcMillan

liv4love

funkyhead

RumandRaisin

kaine

kimrachell

rossco

RodeoSchro

.

[Edited 6/9/10 9:00am]

May i ask how you know who got temp-banned?

Marrk said:

Giovanni777 said:

The list of folks that were banned:

Genesia

Giovanni777

organgrinder

damn

NuPwrSoul

Shorty

Bfunkthe1

Joyinrepatition

Markk

Dave1992

aiden

ludwig

minneapolisFunq

PicklesMcMillan

liv4love

funkyhead

RumandRaisin

kaine

kimrachell

rossco

RodeoSchro

.

[Edited 6/9/10 9:00am]

May i ask how you know who got temp-banned?

After I got banned, I clicked on several others' profiles, and the ones that came up "empty" were the ones that got banned.

Then, "RodeoShcro" composed this list in "General Discussion" 2 let folks know we didn't die or vaporize.

Marrk said:

errant said:

surely by now you've grown accustomed to her willy-nilly style of moderation.

So that's why i was banned! Thanks for the courtesy orgnote letting me know why mods. Had to find out here. Nice one.

Oh, and i merely requested a fairy visit me as i recall. But not a hairy one.

I didn't ask for shit.

Marrk, did you get an email? I was emailed at the address registered with this site letting me know about the ban.

didn't Mars23 say the best way to address this was through an org note to the moderator?

NuPwrSoul said:

Marrk said:

So that's why i was banned! Thanks for the courtesy orgnote letting me know why mods. Had to find out here. Nice one.

Oh, and i merely requested a fairy visit me as i recall. But not a hairy one.

I didn't ask for shit.

Marrk, did you get an email? I was emailed at the address registered with this site letting me know about the ban.

Oh, that'll be why. I haven't had that email address for the last 4 years.

BlackAdder7 said:

didn't Mars23 say the best way to address this was through an org note to the moderator?

I did that. I got no reply.

Pardon me, but do you actually have something to contribute or are you just being the resident scold today?

Oh come on now! I'm usually one all for calling bullshit on Moderation around here but y'all were wrong as hell! So much so that even I had to say something about it, way before the Mods got around to it.

Oh hold up!

Now I said I wouldn't say anything about the song but this blatant HYPOCRITICAL begging to SHARE a BOOTLEG because if you have it in your computer's possession it is now a BOOTLEG, which for some of the folks begging the hardest is supposed to be a and only something us Haters would do...is another matter all together!

Y'all don't even want to play that game today!

However, I did not report y'all. If I had, I'd be more than happy to say so.

I was trying to get y'all to cut it out because had that been the resident "Haters" doing that, we'd have been reported, reprimanded and told in numerous posts and hit and run threads, how disrespectful we were to Prince, the Org, the fans, the sun, the moon, the stars and then we'd have STILL been banned and more than likely not temporarily!

The rule at the very top of the main page of the PM&M forum state in flashing letters:

ABSOLUTELY NO SOLICITING FOR BOOTLEGS.

and if that rule applies to ME...it applies to EVERYBODY...no matter how cleverly WE might try to disguise it...out in the open forum.

I heard in CHAT that somebody died.

mcmeekle said:

I heard in CHAT that somebody died.

Oh. No. Wait. NOBODY died! That's what it was!

mcmeekle said:

mcmeekle said:

I heard in CHAT that somebody died.

Oh. No. Wait. NOBODY died! That's what it was!

Maybe it's time for that antiquated ass RULE to die, ONCE AND FOR ALL?

Marrk said:

Giovanni777 said:

The list of folks that were banned:

Genesia

Giovanni777

organgrinder

damn

NuPwrSoul

Shorty

Bfunkthe1

Joyinrepatition

Markk

Dave1992

aiden

ludwig

minneapolisFunq

PicklesMcMillan

liv4love

funkyhead

RumandRaisin

kaine

kimrachell

rossco

RodeoSchro

.

[Edited 6/9/10 9:00am]

May i ask how you know who got temp-banned?

Yesterday, while my ban was in place, I clicked on the profiles of everyone that had a snip message from Luv4U, and each time I got the screen that indicates a profile isn't active.

I think there was one person who got snipped but not banned, but I can't remember who that was.

And there was at least one person that put up a link to hear the song that did not have their link taken down, nor were they banned. I'm not saying who that was, though.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

mcmeekle said:

Oh. No. Wait. NOBODY died! That's what it was!

Maybe it's time for that antiquated ass RULE to die, ONCE AND FOR ALL?

We'll all be laughing about this next week!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Oh come on now! I'm usually one all for calling bullshit on Moderation around here but y'all were wrong as hell! So much so that even I had to say something about it, way before the Mods got around to it.

Oh hold up!

Now I said I wouldn't say anything about the song but this blatant HYPOCRITICAL begging to SHARE a BOOTLEG because if you have it in your computer's possession it is now a BOOTLEG, which for some of the folks begging the hardest is supposed to be a and only something us Haters would do...is another matter all together!

Y'all don't even want to play that game today!

However, I did not report y'all. If I had, I'd be more than happy to say so.

I was trying to get y'all to cut it out because had that been the resident "Haters" doing that, we'd have been reported, reprimanded and told in numerous posts and hit and run threads, how disrespectful we were to Prince, the Org, the fans, the sun, the moon, the stars and then we'd have STILL been banned and more than likely not temporarily!

The rule at the very top of the main page of the PM&M forum state in flashing letters:

ABSOLUTELY NO SOLICITING FOR BOOTLEGS.

and if that rule applies to ME...it applies to EVERYBODY...no matter how cleverly WE might try to disguise it...out in the open forum.

Most of us, if not all of us, did not solicit for a bootleg. We asked where we could go to hear a song that Prince had made available to the public to listen to, but not to buy.

And even if that is against the rules (I would argue it's not, or at best is a very gray area), what bothers me is that I was retroactively banned for violating a warning that was posted AFTER my post.

Even if my post was wrong, it seems to me that the correct order of events would have been to merely snip my post. I can see banning someone that posted something offensive AFTER the warning, but BEFORE?

As you can see by the list of those that got the ban, several long-time, non-bootlegging users got banned. I think the evidence is clear that our ban was wrong. We clearly aren't a bunch of serial bootleggers.

Just between me, Genesia and Giovanni, we have over 30,000 posts. None of us has ever been banned. Hell, I can count on one hand the number of snipped comments I've seen from us three.