Racial Terms

2elijah said:

.. and THAT being said.. on a site dedicated to a black man ..

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Reply #61 posted 10/21/08 2:01pm

2elijah said:

I see a lot less "Dont' talk about it race " to more of a "willing to discuss, listen and ask questions about race." I see more people defending those outside of their race, as oppose to only giving a damn when it only concerns a situation concerning theirs. Still got a long way to go, but it's looking pretty good so far. Just my 2 cents, and yes I can't believe I said this either. lol

I agree.. we're progressing..

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Reply #62 posted 10/21/08 2:36pm

ehuffnsd

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2elijah said:

Well, I know for a fact that there has been plenty of racist insults directed towards quite a few African-American orgers in p&r, especially last year everytime we tried to have a decent discussion regarding race, many of us were accused of race-baiting just because we chose to discuss it or called other names, and even several times told by some orgers who are posting on this very thread, to stop discussing it, it has no place here.. It almost felt like some of us had to rsise our hands to ask permission if we could discuss it. But that was last year.

...and I have to say, since this election, in P&R, I see more people willing to discuss race issues and sort of reach a bit of common ground and share their experiences with other orgers about race; asking questions regarding other cultures, etc. I have even noticed that for the past 2 months, it seems a bit calmer in p&r, aside from debating whose presidential candidate is the best one for the job. It's unfortunate though that it took Barack Obama running for President, for the subject of race to finally be discussed on a slightly, more comfortable basis in P&R without feeling attacked or that you said a taboo word.

Race will never be an easy subject to discuss. Someone will always be offended. The point is if people let others know what terms are considered offensive and disrespectful, then you will see less of it if you educate others to let them know about it. I have to say I enjoy conversing with people in P&R on race/culure/social and political issues. It's not easy at times, but looking at the p&r forum today, compared to last year, I say we've pretty much come a long way. More people are willing to "listen and learn" as oppose to "knowing it all, having a closed mind and refusing to hear others out by taking it personal".

I see a lot less "Dont' talk about it race " to more of a "willing to discuss, listen and ask questions about race." I see more people defending those outside of their race, as oppose to only giving a damn when it only concerns a situation concerning theirs. Still got a long way to go, but it's looking pretty good so far. Just my 2 cents, and yes I can't believe I said this either. lol

what prompted this wasn't a a discussion on race. it was another orger refering to someone with a racial slur.

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Reply #63 posted 10/21/08 2:43pm

ehuffnsd said:

2elijah said:

what prompted this wasn't a a discussion on race. it was another orger refering to someone with a racial slur.

yeah, when it's about 'your' race.. not nice when the shoe is on the other foot.. and that's the only time some around here give a damn is when they are offended.. slurs against any race is disrespectful... 2elijah was just expressing how she feels on the whole matter.. and very well stated

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Reply #64 posted 10/21/08 2:52pm

ehuffnsd

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Flowers2 said:

ehuffnsd said:

what prompted this wasn't a a discussion on race. it was another orger refering to someone with a racial slur.

actully i report all racial slurs i see.

You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis

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Reply #65 posted 10/21/08 3:28pm

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2elijah said:

I agree with this. I'm just sad that it took hundreds of news articles, youtube videos, campaign speech gaffes, and dead bears to stop some people in P&R from yelling, "Get over it--go back to Africa--racism is in your head--you're making a big deal out of nothing, etc." disbelief

Now that it's all out in the open and everyone knows it's not some imaginary racism fairy tale, I think the discussion is helpful and has progressed to some great dialogue.

Everyone also knows I am white. ehuff, I love you, hug

but I have never been offended by someone calling me a "cracker." I lol

and consider where it's coming from. Nine times out of ten, it's probably from someone who has been a victim of some terrible form of racism recently. Discriminated against on the job, passed over for a promotion, stopped by the cops for DWB, or called that horrible name that starts with an "N."

Now, why don't I get offended by the word "cracker," when I hate racism in any form? Because when someone calls a Black person the N word, they are implying that that person is inferior, ignorant, less than human, not deserving of basic human rights...you know what I mean.

When a white person is called a cracker or honky, the meaning is different. To me it just means that the person using the word thinks I may be part of the racist mindset that relegates his people to a lower class and tries to keep them down at all costs. And more than likely, once they get to know me, they know that I'm not part of that racist crowd. Whereas, if you hear someone calling someone a n*****, it's highly unlikely they'll change their minds about a race they hate, or even want to associate with any Black person.

Is it correct? No. Is it a good word? No. But, to me, it's nowhere near the same as calling someone a "n*****." Not by a long-shot. You can't even really compare the words.

"Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack

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Reply #66 posted 10/21/08 3:41pm

noimageatall said:

Now, why don't I get offended by the word "cracker," when I hate racism in any form? Because when someone calls a Black person the N word, they are implying that that person is inferior, ignorant, less than human, not deserving of basic human rights...you know what I mean.

Is it correct? No. Is it a good word? No. But, to me, it's nowhere near the same as calling someone a "n*****." Not by a long-shot. You can't even really compare the words.

I appreciate all your posts dealing with race, when you post, a person can really feel your compassion in what you say Noimage, we should all feel this for each other... but I consider you a 'sister' anyway ... you know you one of us (and Supa too) ..

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Reply #67 posted 10/21/08 3:46pm

MuthaFunka

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nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher

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Reply #68 posted 10/21/08 3:52pm

meow85

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ehuffnsd said:

XxAxX said:

the fuck it's not on the same level. check yourself please. perhaps it would help if you were to remember that you do not speak for me, or for the people i know.

and as a matter of fact if you look carefully around the ORG, specifically at P&R, you will see empty chairs where once ORGers sat. these are people who have deleted their accounts because of this ongoing racist, name-calling issue.

and no, i don't see a need to argue this point with you (as you have demanded of ehuff) so i won't waste my time explaining why i dislike seeing derogatory names directed at white people. just take my word for it, hate speech is not appropriate. period.

And I just don't see it as hate speech. And honestly. I'm surprised that anyone would.

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Reply #69 posted 10/21/08 3:54pm

meow85

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noimageatall said:

2elijah said:

but I have never been offended by someone calling me a "cracker." I lol

You worded that so much better than I did.

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Reply #70 posted 10/21/08 5:08pm

2elijah

noimageatall said:

2elijah said:

but I have never been offended by someone calling me a "cracker." I lol

Thanks, noimage. hug

(Excuse the typos/grammatical errors in that post. I edited the post a little. I was at work at the time I typed it and was trying to type it fast.. lol

)
[Edited 10/21/08 17:38pm]

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Reply #71 posted 10/21/08 5:39pm

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I found some interesting info on the words...this probably belongs in P&R, but I thought it was appropriate. People everywhere take offense over insignificant words and gestures all the time. But there is a collective responsibility to deem whether their offense is not personally valid, but culturally valid. IMO, "honkey" has no characteristics, and carries no weight as does the N word. Even the term "white trash" is a backhanded slap against minorities, saying they’re "trash" that’s actually "white." And if "honkey" is so offensive to whites, why is there honky-tonk music, "Honkey-Tonk Woman," (Rolling Stones) and "Honkey-Tonk Badonkadonk?"

crack'er, n, 1.

One who or that cracks; specifically, (a) a firecracker; (b) a grinding machine for raw rubber; (c) a person who breaks flints; (d) a braggart [Obs] 2. A hard-baked biscuit, thin and crisp. 3. One of a class of low whites of southern United States.

cracker:

1440, "hard wafer," but the specific application to a thin, crisp biscuit is 1739. Cracker-barrel (adj.) "emblematic of down-home ways and views" is from 1877. Cracker, Southern U.S. derogatory term for "poor, white trash" (1766), is from c.1450 crack "to boast" (e.g. not what it's cracked up to be), originally a Scottish word. Especially of Georgians by 1808, though often extended to residents of northern Florida.

"I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas and Georgia, who often change their places of abode." [1766, G. Cochrane]

nig ger, n. 1.

A contemptuous term applied to a member of the black race. [Colloq.] 2. A person of color, especially a native of the East Indies, [Colloq.] 3. The larva of a ladybird. 4. A donkey engine. [Colloq.]

nigger:

1786, earlier neger (1568, Scot. and northern England dialect), from Fr. nègre, from Sp. negro (see Negro). From the earliest usage it was "the term that carries with it all the obloquy and contempt and rejection which whites have inflicted on blacks" [cited in Gowers, 1965]. But as black inferiority was at one time a near universal assumption in Eng.-speaking lands, the word in some cases could be used without insult. More sympathetic writers late 18c. and early 19c. seem to have used black (n.) and, after the American Civil War, colored person. Also applied by Eng. settlers to dark-skinned native peoples in India, Australia, Polynesia.

The reclamation of the word as a neutral or positive term in black culture, often with a suggestion of "soul" or "style," is attested first in the Amer. South, later (1968) in the Northern, urban-based Black Power movement. Variant niggah, attested from 1925 (without the -h, from 1969), is found usually in situations where blacks use the word. Nigra (1944), on the other hand, reflects a pronunciation in certain circles of Negro, but meant to suggest nigger, and is thus deemed (according to a 1960 slang dictionary) "even more derog. than 'nigger.' "

Slang phrase: nigger in the woodpile attested by 1800; "A mode of accounting for the disappearance of fuel; an unsolved mystery" [R.H. Thornton, "American Glossary," 1912]. Nigger heaven, "the top gallery in a (segregated) theater" first attested 1878 in ref. to Troy, N.Y. disbelief

I remember when I was about 12 in South Carolina, we had one theater in town and they still would only let Black people sit in the balcony. It hasn't been that long ago, folks. confused

" 'You're a fool nigger, and the worst day's work Pa ever did was to buy you,' said Scarlett slowly. ... There, she thought, I've said 'nigger' and Mother wouldn't like that at all." [Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind," 1936]
Used in combinations (e.g. nigger-brown, nigger-head, nigger-toe) since 1840s for various dark brown or black hues or objects; euphemistic substitutions (e.g. Zulu) began to appear in these senses c.1917.

from Wiki:

Honky is a corruption of hungy or hunky, a term which originated in the stockyards and slaughterhouses of Chicago. Black workers and Hungarian workers were two of the largest ethnic groups in the Chicago meat industry. Racial and ethnic tension between the two groups led Black workers to begin calling Hungarian workers, and those perceived as Hungarian workers, hunky, perhaps in retaliation for the familiar racist epithets to which black workers were subject. The corruption ‘honky’ emerged shortly thereafter.

From Urban Dictionary:
Honkey lol

A term used by any other person who is not white to offend the white race, even though it doesn’t offend one single white person. A way of getting back at the white man for using the word nigger.

honkey

insult to white people. same as whitey and cracker, but no white person is offended by these words no matter who is saying them. unless u call a wigger a honkey. then they get pissed.

someone: you honkey.
white person:(bursts out laughing) lol

The term cracker was thought to have originated from Don West's poem "Look Here, America". It comes from the term corncracker. Anyone remember the song "Jimmy Crack Corn"?

Most of the romance languages (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese...) have the word "negro" meaning "black" (in colour) derived from the Latin "niger". During the period in America's history when black workers were shipped to America to work as slaves, this word came to be adopted from the Hispanic South American languages to describe a person of dark skin. Essentially, a "negro" person simply means a "black" person.

Through constant repetition of the Spanish word in the American accent, it seems likely that the word was corrupted from "negro" to "niggero" to simply "nigger". The term "nigger" has taken on pejorative qualities as it implies not only darkness of skin, but a general lack of intelligence and sophistication. At the time of the word's origin, various English speaking North American settlers who set cultural standards considered black people fundamentally inferior and less civilized. The term is generally considered offensive to black people not only because it singles them out on the basis of their skin colour, but also, because of its origin, it carries connotations of slavery, inferiority and oppression.

CREATION OF THE NEGRO

Compiled by Ayinde

Extracts from: The name "negro" its origin and evil use: Richard B. Moore

http://www.raceandhistory.../negro.htm

The name that you respond to determines the amount of your self worth. Similarly, the way a group of people collectively respond to a name can have devastating effects on their lives, particularly if they did not choose the name.

Asians come from Asia and have pride in the Asian race' Europeans come from Europe and have pride in Europe accomplishments. Negroes, I am to assume, come from negroland-a mythical country with an uncertain past and an even more uncertain future. Since negroland is a myth, where did the myth of the negro originate? The key to understanding what a negro is, is to understand the definition of that word and its origin.

The word negro is Spanish for black. The Spanish language comes from Latin, which has its origins in Classical Greek. The word negro, in Greek, is derived from the root word necro, meaning dead. What was once referred to as a physical condition is now regarded as an appropriate state of mind for millions of Africans.

Historically when the Greeks first traveled to Africa 2,500 years ago, the Egyptian civilization was already ancient. The Great Pyramid was over 3,000 years old and the sphinx was even older. Writing, science, medicine and religion were already a part of the civilization and had reached their zenith. The Greeks came to Africa as students to sit at the feet of the masters, and to discover what Africans already knew. In any student / teacher relationship the teacher can only teach as much as the student is capable of understanding.

Egyptians, like other Africans, understood that life existed beyond the grave. Ancestral worship is a way of acknowledging the lives of the people who have come before you, and their ability to offer guidance and direction to the living. Temples were designed as places where the ancestors could be honored and holidays (Holy Days) where the ancestors could be honored, and holidays (Holy Days) were the days designated to do so.

The Egyptians had hundreds of temples and hundreds of Holy Days to worship their ancestors. The Greeks thought the Africans had a preoccupation with death. The act of ancestral worship became known as necromancy or communication with the dead. The root word necro means dead. Another word for necromancy is magic - that Old Black Magic which was practiced in Ancient Africa. When the Greeks returned to Europe, they took their distorted beliefs with them and the word negro evolved out of this great misunderstanding.

Less than 300 years after the first Greeks came to Egypt as students, their descendants returned as conquerors. They destroyed the cities, temples and libraries of the Egyptians and claimed African knowledge as their own.

Not only was the African legacy stolen, but also the wholesale theft of African people soon followed. With the birth of the slave trade, it became necessary to dehumanize Africans and devalue their historical worth as a people in order to ensure their value as slaves.

So there you have it, the negro - a race of dead people with a dead history and no hope for resurrection as long as they remained ignorant of their past. This was a triple death - the death of the mind, body, and spirit of the African people.

It was strictly forbidden for negro slaves to learn to read and write. Such knowledge was the key to liberation and was placed firmly out of reach. As negroes became educated, however, they sought to redefine themselves.

The evolution of the word negro from colored, to black, to African represents a progression of self-awareness. As a free people, we have a responsibility to educate ourselves and rediscover our Identities. Knowledge of self is the key to unlocking the door to the future.

Books:

The name "negro" its origin and evil use: Richard B. Moore
African Origins of Civilization: Cheikh Anta Diop
Stolen Legacy: George James G.M.
The Destruction of Black Civilization: Chancelor Williams
From the Browder File: Compiled & written by Anthony T. Browder

[Edited 10/21/08 17:50pm]

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Reply #72 posted 10/21/08 5:43pm

2elijah

ehuffnsd said:

2elijah said:

what prompted this wasn't a a discussion on race. it was another orger refering to someone with a racial slur.

I know, but I thought I'd add a bit anyway. But getting back to someone making a comment you considered a racial slur on one of these forums, maybe if you had let the person who made the comment, you found offensive aware of how you felt about it, either by pm or publically on the forum, then maybe that person would have enough respect not to do it again, and if they do it again, then I guess you would have to take it to the mods and let them handle it.
[Edited 10/21/08 17:44pm]

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Reply #73 posted 10/21/08 5:45pm

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Flowers2 said:

noimageatall said:

Well, I will take being compared with supa as a compliment any day. thumbs up!

Thank you. hug

"Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack

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Reply #74 posted 10/21/08 6:30pm

2elijah

(From article noimageatall posted:)

Less than 300 years after the first Greeks came to Egypt as students, their descendants returned as conquerors. They destroyed the cities, temples and libraries of the Egyptians and claimed African knowledge as their own.

Not only was the African legacy stolen, but also the wholesale theft of African people soon followed. With the birth of the slave trade, it became necessary to dehumanize Africans and devalue their historical worth as a people in order to ensure their value as slaves.

So there you have it, the negro - a race of dead people with a dead history and no hope for resurrection as long as they remained ignorant of their past. This was a triple death - the death of the mind, body, and spirit of the African people.

Noimageatall:Wow, thanks for that info . I especially am amazed of that section above from that article. It explains to me why racism is being continued today against many Blacks, from the ancient days of Egypt and Africa. Very sad.

I have tried to order the book "African Origins of Civilization: Cheikh Anta Diop, from Amazon 2 years ago, and they kept sending delayed order notices, so I cancelled the order. I actually have "The Destruction of Black Civilization: Chancelor Williams" and have had it for 4 years, but never had the time to get into reading it. I think it's way overdue for reading, and guess it's time to give it a read. This article should have been in P&R, but thanks for posting that, truly appreciate it. (sorry if this is hijacking your thread ehuffnsd).
[Edited 10/21/08 18:48pm]

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Reply #75 posted 10/21/08 9:43pm

luv4u

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moderator

noimageatall said:

[One biggie information blurb]

Very good reference clapping

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Reply #76 posted 10/21/08 10:04pm

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luv4u said:

noimageatall said:

[One biggie information blurb]

Very good reference clapping

Yeah...I know. I got carried away. I like to get the whole message through in one post, not twenty. cool

I have things to do! toilet

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Reply #77 posted 10/22/08 6:39am

XxAxX

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meow85 said:

ehuffnsd said:

And I just don't see it as hate speech. And honestly. I'm surprised that anyone would.

well then agree to disagree. your definition of hate speech and my own do not match. some people agree with you, some people agree with me.

but at least i think we can all agree on one thing: there is no room for insulting language and derogatory name calling against people of ANY color at prince.org.

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Reply #78 posted 10/22/08 9:58am

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ehuffnsd said:

Why is it ok to refer to a white person as a cracker or a honkie or any other term ok in some forums, but in all forums racial terms are not ok for blacks, asians, latinos and whoever else?

This is a good question. I posted what other people call my family and got snipped. It's called reality folks.

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Reply #79 posted 10/22/08 11:47am

meow85

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XxAxX said:

meow85 said:

And I just don't see it as hate speech. And honestly. I'm surprised that anyone would.

"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"

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Reply #80 posted 10/28/08 7:01am

momentsofbliss	[Bait snip - luv4u]
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Reply #81 posted 10/28/08 6:04pm

momentsofbliss	momentsofbliss said: [Bait snip - luv4u] why is what i said bait?... it was an honest opinion on the subject.... i just didn't wrap it in cotton wool i do think some white person whining about being called a cracker needs to get a real problem
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Reply #82 posted 10/29/08 6:25am

momentsofbliss

XxAxX said:

meow85 said:

And I'm not arguing that it's not, just pointing out that it's really not on the same level.

the fuck it's not on the same level.

it isn't.... because of history ... plain and simple

and as a matter of fact if you look carefully around the ORG, specifically at P&R, you will see empty chairs where once ORGers sat. these are people who have deleted their accounts because of this ongoing racist, name-calling issue.

and there are PLENTY of cool people that are no longer here because of the fact that the org doesn't allow real discussions on race

gay people on this site can be as militant as hell about being persecuted by so-called christians (rightly so)... plenty of name calling etc

but you get get someone here who doesn't pull punches about white people's teatment of black people (that on many levels still continues to some degree today) and it's shut down in a heart beat

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Reply #83 posted 10/29/08 6:39am

XxAxX

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momentsofbliss said:[quote]

XxAxX said:

it isn't.... because of history ... plain and simple

i think your post just proves my point, rather than otherwise.

rose

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Reply #84 posted 10/29/08 6:40am

XxAxX

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momentsofbliss said:

[Bait snip - luv4u]

why is what i said bait?... it was an honest opinion on the subject.... i just didn't wrap it in cotton wool

i do think some white person whining about being called a cracker needs to get a real problem

especially this bit, where you repeat the word that was snipped earlier by a mod.

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Reply #85 posted 10/29/08 6:59am

momentsofbliss	XxAxX said: momentsofbliss said: why is what i said bait?... it was an honest opinion on the subject.... i just didn't wrap it in cotton wool i do think some white person whining about being called a cracker needs to get a real problem especially this bit, where you repeat the word that was snipped earlier by a mod. what word?... cracker?.... it's in the original post
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Reply #86 posted 10/29/08 7:11am

momentsofbliss

the work 'cracker' has no power... it's just a word

the 'n' word is what it is because of all that was/is associated with it

if there had been a history of white people being sold/lynched/raped/persecuted in conjunction with the word 'cracker' ... then it would take on a whole new meaning

if NOT ALL THAT LONG AGO us white people weren't allowed to eat in the same places ... sit in the same seats etc as black people while being referred to as crackers ...then it would take on a whole new meaning

but that's simply not the case

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Reply #87 posted 10/29/08 2:51pm

Stymie

momentsofbliss said:

I agree 12,000%.

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Reply #88 posted 10/29/08 5:39pm

luv4u

Moderator

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momentsofbliss said:

[Bait snip - luv4u]

What you posted was obvious bait and if it was not then it would not have been snipped. That's simple as apple pie with ice cream on top smile

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #89 posted 10/30/08 2:40am

momentsofbliss

luv4u said:

momentsofbliss said:

What you posted was obvious bait and if it was not then it would not have been snipped. That's simple as apple pie with ice cream on top smile

you're wrong... but i'll agree to disagree

i appreciate the fact you answered my post... thanks

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