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PrintableRhondab said: mdiver said: 
In any race conversation on here if you are not black and american then your opinion is null and void  This isn't valid at all. A couple of black members may feel this way but to say its how things go, is just wrong. Mach and some others don't have issues with posting their opinions. At the same time, you don't TRY to understand the history of racism in America IS different. So, pot and kettle need to shut up. Goes both ways. At the same time Mdiver, anyone that doesn't agree with you has been called a Racist including myself. yeah, Active is awesome, abusive is not. 
You have ACTIVELY participated in much of the negativity in P&R as you're doing NOW. Nice way to cherry pick Rhonda. Same shit different day. We have had this argument over and over and now your buddy is gone you wanna keep it going. What i actually said was "any man that draws a line in the sand based on a persons colour is a racist" Just because you don't believe the generally accepted (outside of the USA) definition of racism and you have your get out clause of "i am black i have no power" you think that some things are ok if you are black because of the situation in the US and your personal experiences. After long discussion and my explaining to you the definition outside the US, how i felt about what you were saying to me and what it meant OUTSIDE OF THE US i did indeed say that would make you a racist OUTSIDE OF THE US. So don't go cherry picking out of context. It is simple here, racism does not rely on this definition of who has power and who does not.If a white man and a black man commit the same act then it is racism regardless of who has the balance of power because the act is the act. Simple. And what is this BS about not trying to understand racism in AMerica????WTF Of course i look,read and understand, I JUST DONT AGREE WITH SKEWED CONCLUSIONS AND REACTIONS THAT OCCUR BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED. What people do does not justify reactions that you seem to support. Not 2 weeks ago MF was advocating burning a bar down because a racist owned it. If you had read my reactions you would have seen how i "understand" what was meant and his intention and yet you then tried to tell me that "MF was not advocating it he was saying if it happened so be it" BULLSHIT. You were proved wrong in 1 post with him directly supporting it and saying he deserved it and yet you jumped in on the side of violence and retaliation .....why? That is where i lose understanding because there is a morality involved that goes beyond skin colour and lines in the sand.....we are ALL human. When you were shown wrong you said nothing except to try and make out that you were trying to "educate". Well thanks, i dont wish to be educated on how to retaliate and burn places to the ground. Treating people differently based on the colour of their skin is what we in England call racism. | |
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mdiver said: Rhondab said: This isn't valid at all. A couple of black members may feel this way but to say its how things go, is just wrong. Mach and some others don't have issues with posting their opinions. At the same time, you don't TRY to understand the history of racism in America IS different. So, pot and kettle need to shut up. Goes both ways. At the same time Mdiver, anyone that doesn't agree with you has been called a Racist including myself. yeah, Active is awesome, abusive is not.
You have ACTIVELY participated in much of the negativity in P&R as you're doing NOW. Nice way to cherry pick Rhonda. Same shit different day. We have had this argument over and over and now your buddy is gone you wanna keep it going. What i actually said was "any man that draws a line in the sand based on a persons colour is a racist" Just because you don't believe the generally accepted (outside of the USA) definition of racism and you have your get out clause of "i am black i have no power" you think that some things are ok if you are black because of the situation in the US and your personal experiences. After long discussion and my explaining to you the definition outside the US, how i felt about what you were saying to me and what it meant OUTSIDE OF THE US i did indeed say that would make you a racist OUTSIDE OF THE US. So don't go cherry picking out of context. It is simple here, racism does not rely on this definition of who has power and who does not.If a white man and a black man commit the same act then it is racism regardless of who has the balance of power because the act is the act. Simple. And what is this BS about not trying to understand racism in AMerica????WTF Of course i look,read and understand, I JUST DONT AGREE WITH SKEWED CONCLUSIONS AND REACTIONS THAT OCCUR BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED. What people do does not justify reactions that you seem to support. Not 2 weeks ago MF was advocating burning a bar down because a racist owned it. If you had read my reactions you would have seen how i "understand" what was meant and his intention and yet you then tried to tell me that "MF was not advocating it he was saying if it happened so be it" BULLSHIT. You were proved wrong in 1 post with him directly supporting it and saying he deserved it and yet you jumped in on the side of violence and retaliation .....why? That is where i lose understanding because there is a morality involved that goes beyond skin colour and lines in the sand.....we are ALL human. When you were shown wrong you said nothing except to try and make out that you were trying to "educate". Well thanks, i dont wish to be educated on how to retaliate and burn places to the ground. Treating people differently based on the colour of their skin is what we in England call racism. oh blah blah blah Mdiver.... See you're trying to make me Mutha and I'm not. This isn't about HIM but YOUR active and continued participation in the negativity in p&r. As far as Mutha "advocating" burning a bar down, I didn't read it that way. What you don't seemed to get is that I've publicly disagreed with Mutha on many occasions and have told him to sit his ass down in orgnotes. We all don't think alike Sir. This isn't some group think. If I didn't agree with Mutha, I don't have any issue telling him or you for that matter. NO ISSUE. Hear me. You came to this thread, something positive, to start some BS with your little abusive shitty comment. I'm sooooo sure you are about to play victim. Cry me a river. I'm TIRED of you frankly. Mdiver, its been noticed that you troll around from person to person to start stuff. You don't think many noticed and have talked about it and even reported it. We've even given each other advice to ignore YOU because you like to start stuff and then go cry about people being abusive, mainly Gray and Mutha. I've watched Gray just ignore you in threads but you will TRY to get shit started. You NEVER have anything positive to say about the black community on prince.org. YOU didn't even actively participate in the POSITIVE threads about race during black history month. If something negative was happening, you were there. This isn't about anything being about of context Mdiver. You called me a racist. You've called others racist because they don't agree with you. I'm not a racist and I'm still VERY offended that YOU of all people would open your mouth to say that bullshit. From that, I figured out what type of person you really are. So if you want to talk about Mutha, get his email and address him. I'm not him. I'm very much Rhonda. Because YOU continue to be here and that the mods seem to think your like is ok to be on this site, I do plan to leave after this summer. I can't deal with this negative stuff that goes unchecked and is biased. I'm sure you have some bs to say but I'm DONE with you. No more responding to you and your crap. Say what you want, run to the mods, do what you do best. I'm finished.  | |
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Rhondab said: mdiver said: Nice way to cherry pick Rhonda. Same shit different day. We have had this argument over and over and now your buddy is gone you wanna keep it going. What i actually said was "any man that draws a line in the sand based on a persons colour is a racist" Just because you don't believe the generally accepted (outside of the USA) definition of racism and you have your get out clause of "i am black i have no power" you think that some things are ok if you are black because of the situation in the US and your personal experiences. After long discussion and my explaining to you the definition outside the US, how i felt about what you were saying to me and what it meant OUTSIDE OF THE US i did indeed say that would make you a racist OUTSIDE OF THE US. So don't go cherry picking out of context. It is simple here, racism does not rely on this definition of who has power and who does not.If a white man and a black man commit the same act then it is racism regardless of who has the balance of power because the act is the act. Simple. And what is this BS about not trying to understand racism in AMerica????WTF Of course i look,read and understand, I JUST DONT AGREE WITH SKEWED CONCLUSIONS AND REACTIONS THAT OCCUR BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED. What people do does not justify reactions that you seem to support. Not 2 weeks ago MF was advocating burning a bar down because a racist owned it. If you had read my reactions you would have seen how i "understand" what was meant and his intention and yet you then tried to tell me that "MF was not advocating it he was saying if it happened so be it" BULLSHIT. You were proved wrong in 1 post with him directly supporting it and saying he deserved it and yet you jumped in on the side of violence and retaliation .....why? That is where i lose understanding because there is a morality involved that goes beyond skin colour and lines in the sand.....we are ALL human. When you were shown wrong you said nothing except to try and make out that you were trying to "educate". Well thanks, i dont wish to be educated on how to retaliate and burn places to the ground. Treating people differently based on the colour of their skin is what we in England call racism. oh blah blah blah Mdiver.... See you're trying to make me Mutha and I'm not. This isn't about HIM but YOUR active and continued participation in the negativity in p&r. As far as Mutha "advocating" burning a bar down, I didn't read it that way. What you don't seemed to get is that I've publicly disagreed with Mutha on many occasions and have told him to sit his ass down in orgnotes. We all don't think alike Sir. This isn't some group think. If I didn't agree with Mutha, I don't have any issue telling him or you for that matter. NO ISSUE. Hear me. You came to this thread, something positive, to start some BS with your little abusive shitty comment. I'm sooooo sure you are about to play victim. Cry me a river. I'm TIRED of you frankly. Mdiver, its been noticed that you troll around from person to person to start stuff. You don't think many noticed and have talked about it and even reported it. We've even given each other advice to ignore YOU because you like to start stuff and then go cry about people being abusive, mainly Gray and Mutha. I've watched Gray just ignore you in threads but you will TRY to get shit started. You NEVER have anything positive to say about the black community on prince.org. YOU didn't even actively participate in the POSITIVE threads about race during black history month. If something negative was happening, you were there. This isn't about anything being about of context Mdiver. You called me a racist. You've called others racist because they don't agree with you. I'm not a racist and I'm still VERY offended that YOU of all people would open your mouth to say that bullshit. From that, I figured out what type of person you really are. So if you want to talk about Mutha, get his email and address him. I'm not him. I'm very much Rhonda. Because YOU continue to be here and that the mods seem to think your like is ok to be on this site, I do plan to leave after this summer. I can't deal with this negative stuff that goes unchecked and is biased. I'm sure you have some bs to say but I'm DONE with you. No more responding to you and your crap. Say what you want, run to the mods, do what you do best. I'm finished. Blah blah Rhonda, you keep saying the same shit and you never do it. Your skewed perspective is offensive in the extreme and it does not matter how many times you say it, it does not change the facts. | |
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I can only speak of my personal experiences here when I say this.
I have at times felt like I have been unable to speak my mind in this forum in the past 7 months or so especially. I did actively positively try to participate in the BHM threads in February. I started a few threads myself. I was baited on one of them because of my thread title, though it was the name of the article that I was posting, titled by NPR news..NOT ME! I also started a thread about the Congo that I had to request to be locked because I was baited by MF, Greycap and Dance. After a few times of posting genuinely sincere threads and posts regarding BHM and things pertaining to racism and being baited, I got tired of replying my opinions and views. What a shame. I FEEL I have never been baited and disrespected for just being myself and showing sincere concerns about issues such as racism. I guess I have just learned which threads I can reply on without being judged by the colour of MY skin or who I live with. 
I think every race, sex, sexual preference & nationality should feel comfortable posting their opinions here and be active. [Edited 5/23/08 5:29am] | |
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Serious said: Rhondab said: your nerve is unbelievable.  I don't agree with a lot of things mdiver says in P&R nor do I agree with the way he says some things on this forum as it just adds to the atmosphere, but IMO he has a point here. Although abusive may be a hard word the black community here often doesn't give whites the impression that their opinion is something they are interested in hearing and value and that's a shame. I don't even think that most do that on purpose, but that's the way they make me and others feel  . As I don't think it's fun to discuss with people who give me the impression I better shut up I rarely post here.
[Edited 5/22/08 5:26am] That's not true serious. Most of the orgers within the black community get chastized many times when discussing experiences of racism that they experience on a daily basis. We don't expect others outside our race to understand. No one is saying that no other race has experienced prejudice attitudes, but somehow when it is discussed, many non-black orgers will say we are playing victim or they will belittle our experience by saying "oh you were not the only ones discrimnated against". Thing is, we discuss our experiences and those of family members and friends before us, to make others aware that racism is still alive and well in this country. We go about our daily lives, but we are aware that it exists. No one is looking for sympathy or playing the victim game, point is, these experiences have existed and exist for many of us. Yet when a disagreement occurs, many, not all of the non-black orgers "cry victim" and start pointing fingers accusing non-white orgers of baiting and using terms like "ganging up", "abuse", "attack"...phrases all too common of stereotypical views. As far as people saying they can't express their opinions, how is that so when they are doing that right now? I mean who is stopping them? Many say they want to participate in "race" discussions, but when many Black History Month" threads were posted, there was very, low participation from non-black orgers. No one stopped any of them from participating. All I have seen is people calling out names unfairly of Orgers on this thread, some who are not here to defend themselves, and quite frankly, that is just unfair and just another form of baiting or slandering those individual's names; a way of "blacklisting" them so that when other orgers log on and read what is posted against them, will have a negative effect. I could do the same to some I refuse to hold a second of a conversation, but I will not stoop that low. I think all would be happy if many of the orgers of African-American descent just stop posting on this site period. From the treatment many of us have received, i.e., the insults, accusations, speaking the ugly truth about racism, banned or posts snipped quicker than most because we are outspoken about race issues, etc. I have had many conversations with non-black orgers on these forums, that have treated me with the utmost respect while discussing the issues of race, even when we disagreed on certain aspects of it. On the other hand, I have received some responses that I found accusatory, abusive, some of mockery, and some that even said they were tired of some of us discussing our experiences period. I remember posting an article regarding on Irish slavery within another article based on race/slavery, that actually took place in this country, England and the Caribbean, and very little responded while, many black or white, etc., orgers, seemed to take interest in the subject at all;, then in that same thread I was told "to get back on topic" by a very, rude and insulting orger.. Honestly, to those who have no interest in discussing those issues, then that is their choice, we pick and choose our battles. But when you choose those battles, remember that you chose them. No one forced you or put a gun to your head. Various personalities and attitudes exists on and off the forums, so that should not be a surprise to anyone. I respect your choice, but then when things get heated don't cry and play victim. It amazes me that some people on this thread who claim they want to see change in this country, and admitted their desire to vote for a presidential candidate pushing for change, (i.e, race relations), but then at the same time, those same individuals are singing songs to a different tune right here in this thread. So how do they expect others here to take them seriously about wanting to see race relations change in this country, when they keep changing the tune to their song? It amazes me that they say one thing but really mean another. If people would take just 5 minutes to put their egos on the shelves, and actually read the various experiences posted of those who discuss their experiences regarding the racism they experienced , and not interject with responses of "that's nonsense" or "get over it" without hearing them out fully, or thinking the individual discussing their experience is pulling the "blame game" or trying to push "guilt" on specific persons, then maybe we could get just an inch closer to discussing finding solutions instead of snide responses which only adds to the problem. It's not a matter of crying for sympathy regarding America's ugly past, the fact of the matter is, that America's past has never gone away because it has never been dealt with or none of us would be having the conversation of racism still existing in America. As far as racism, I handle it on an individual basis, and don't close my mind or eyes to say it doesn't exist. I rather live with the ugly truths of life than shove it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist. I've come this far and survived many racist attitudes, and I will continue to survive it. As far as those on this site that are doing everything in their power to trash and bash certain orgers, by posting their usernames and trying to slander them, because they can't stand the fact that they are not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world and within their communities, well then I feel sorry for you that you cannot deal with the world having so many different people, opinions and personalities, but you will never, ever in your life possess the power to mold them into what you want them to be, instead of accepting them for who they are. You know, if the org closes tomorrow, then so be it, especially with all the sexual content and pics, being posted in various forums all over this site with underaged members viewing and participating as members on it as well, it would not surprise me if it did. Not to mention the racist attitudes, comments, baiting, stalking, trailing and false accusations towards non-white members that has been apparent for some time now on this site, and regardless of all the complaints to certain mods and the site owner, nothing is ever done about it. Now I don't expect the reaction to my post to be of peaches and cream because of what I have stated, but that in itself will not surprise me, it will be predictable of course , but I could live with that, as it won't take a damn thing away from my blessed, beautiful and peaceful life. But in closing, life goes on people and in that being said I wish you all well.
Peace! [Edited 5/23/08 9:11am] | |
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2elijah said: Serious said: I don't agree with a lot of things mdiver says in P&R nor do I agree with the way he says some things on this forum as it just adds to the atmosphere, but IMO he has a point here. Although abusive may be a hard word the black community here often doesn't give whites the impression that their opinion is something they are interested in hearing and value and that's a shame. I don't even think that most do that on purpose, but that's the way they make me and others feel . As I don't think it's fun to discuss with people who give me the impression I better shut up I rarely post here.
[Edited 5/22/08 5:26am] That's not true serious. Most of the orgers within the black community get chastized many times when discussing experiences of racism that they experience on a daily basis. We don't expect others outside our race to understand. No one is saying that no other race has experienced prejudice attitudes, but somehow when it is discussed, many non-black orgers will say we are playing victim or they will belittle our experience by saying "oh you were not the only ones discrimnated against". Thing is, we discuss our experiences and those of family members and friends before us, to make others aware that racism is still alive and well in this country. We go about our daily lives, but we are aware that it exists. No one is looking for sympathy or playing the victim game, point is, these experiences have existed and exist for many of us. Yet when a disagreement occurs, many, not all of the non-black orgers "cry victim" and start pointing fingers accusing non-white orgers of baiting and using terms like "ganging up", "abuse", "attack"...phrases all too common of stereotypical views. As far as people saying they can't express their opinions, how is that so when they are doing that right now? I mean who is stopping them? Many say they want to participate in "race" discussions, but when many Black History Month" threads were posted, there was very, low participation from non-black orgers. No one stopped any of them from participating. All I have seen is people calling out names unfairly of Orgers on this thread, some who are not here to defend themselves, and quite frankly, that is just unfair and just another form of baiting or slandering those individual's names; a way of "blacklisting" them so that when other orgers log on and read what is posted against them, will have a negative effect. I could do the same to some I refuse to hold a second of a conversation, but I will not stoop that low. I think all would be happy if many of the orgers of African-American descent just stop posting on this site period. From the treatment many of us have received, i.e., the insults, accusations, speaking the ugly truth about racism, banned or posts snipped quicker than most because we are outspoken about race issues, etc. I have had many conversations with non-black orgers on these forums, that have treated me with the utmost respect while discussing the issues of race, even when we disagreed on certain aspects of it. On the other hand, I have received some responses that I found accusatory, abusive, some of mockery, and some that even said they were tired of some of us discussing our experiences period. I remember posting an article regarding on Irish slavery within another article based on race/slavery, that actually took place in this country, England and the Caribbean, and very little responded while, many black or white, etc., orgers, seemed to take interest in the subject at all;, then in that same thread I was told "to get back on topic" by a very, rude and insulting orger.. Honestly, to those who have no interest in discussing those issues, then that is their choice, we pick and choose our battles. But when you choose those battles, remember that you chose them. No one forced you or put a gun to your head. Various personalities and attitudes exists on and off the forums, so that should not be a surprise to anyone. I respect your choice, but then when things get heated don't cry and play victim. It amazes me that some people on this thread who claim they want to see change in this country, and admitted their desire to vote for a presidential candidate pushing for change, (i.e, race relations), but then at the same time, those same individuals are singing songs to a different tune right here in this thread. So how do they expect others here to take them seriously about wanting to see race relations change in this country, when they keep changing the tune to their song? It amazes me that they say one thing but really mean another. If people would take just 5 minutes to put their egos on the shelves, and actually read the various experiences posted of those who discuss their experiences regarding the racism they experienced , and not interject with responses of "that's nonsense" or "get over it" without hearing them out fully, or thinking the individual discussing their experience is pulling the "blame game" or trying to push "guilt" on specific persons, then maybe we could get just an inch closer to discussing finding solutions instead of snide responses which only adds to the problem. It's not a matter of crying for sympathy regarding America's ugly past, the fact of the matter is, that America's past has never gone away because it has never been dealt with or none of us would be having the conversation of racism still existing in America. You know, if the org closes tomorrow, then so be it. I will still have my beautiful and peaceful life. As far as racism, I handle it on an individual basis, and don't close my mind or eyes to say it doesn't exist. I rather live with the ugly truths of life than shove it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist. I've come this far and survived many racist attitudes, and I will continue to survive it. As far as those on this site that are doing everything in their power to trash and bash certain orgers, by posting their usernames and trying to slander them, because they can't stand the fact that they are not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world and within their communities, well then I feel sorry for you that you cannot deal with the world having so many different people, opinions and personalities, but you will never, ever in your life possess the power to mold them into what you want them to be, instead of accepting them for who they are. Now some of the reaction to what I have stated in this post will not surprise me, it will be predictable of course , but I could live with that, as it won't take a damn thing away from my blessed and beautiful life. But in closing, life goes on people and in that being said I wish you all well.
Peace! [Edited 5/23/08 8:20am] dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive. 
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten? a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here?  i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. | |
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evenstar3 said: 2elijah said: That's not true serious. Most of the orgers within the black community get chastized many times when discussing experiences of racism that they experience on a daily basis. We don't expect others outside our race to understand. No one is saying that no other race has experienced prejudice attitudes, but somehow when it is discussed, many non-black orgers will say we are playing victim or they will belittle our experience by saying "oh you were not the only ones discrimnated against". Thing is, we discuss our experiences and those of family members and friends before us, to make others aware that racism is still alive and well in this country. We go about our daily lives, but we are aware that it exists. No one is looking for sympathy or playing the victim game, point is, these experiences have existed and exist for many of us. Yet when a disagreement occurs, many, not all of the non-black orgers "cry victim" and start pointing fingers accusing non-white orgers of baiting and using terms like "ganging up", "abuse", "attack"...phrases all too common of stereotypical views. As far as people saying they can't express their opinions, how is that so when they are doing that right now? I mean who is stopping them? Many say they want to participate in "race" discussions, but when many Black History Month" threads were posted, there was very, low participation from non-black orgers. No one stopped any of them from participating. All I have seen is people calling out names unfairly of Orgers on this thread, some who are not here to defend themselves, and quite frankly, that is just unfair and just another form of baiting or slandering those individual's names; a way of "blacklisting" them so that when other orgers log on and read what is posted against them, will have a negative effect. I could do the same to some I refuse to hold a second of a conversation, but I will not stoop that low. I think all would be happy if many of the orgers of African-American descent just stop posting on this site period. From the treatment many of us have received, i.e., the insults, accusations, speaking the ugly truth about racism, banned or posts snipped quicker than most because we are outspoken about race issues, etc. I have had many conversations with non-black orgers on these forums, that have treated me with the utmost respect while discussing the issues of race, even when we disagreed on certain aspects of it. On the other hand, I have received some responses that I found accusatory, abusive, some of mockery, and some that even said they were tired of some of us discussing our experiences period. I remember posting an article regarding on Irish slavery within another article based on race/slavery, that actually took place in this country, England and the Caribbean, and very little responded while, many black or white, etc., orgers, seemed to take interest in the subject at all;, then in that same thread I was told "to get back on topic" by a very, rude and insulting orger.. Honestly, to those who have no interest in discussing those issues, then that is their choice, we pick and choose our battles. But when you choose those battles, remember that you chose them. No one forced you or put a gun to your head. Various personalities and attitudes exists on and off the forums, so that should not be a surprise to anyone. I respect your choice, but then when things get heated don't cry and play victim. It amazes me that some people on this thread who claim they want to see change in this country, and admitted their desire to vote for a presidential candidate pushing for change, (i.e, race relations), but then at the same time, those same individuals are singing songs to a different tune right here in this thread. So how do they expect others here to take them seriously about wanting to see race relations change in this country, when they keep changing the tune to their song? It amazes me that they say one thing but really mean another. If people would take just 5 minutes to put their egos on the shelves, and actually read the various experiences posted of those who discuss their experiences regarding the racism they experienced , and not interject with responses of "that's nonsense" or "get over it" without hearing them out fully, or thinking the individual discussing their experience is pulling the "blame game" or trying to push "guilt" on specific persons, then maybe we could get just an inch closer to discussing finding solutions instead of snide responses which only adds to the problem. It's not a matter of crying for sympathy regarding America's ugly past, the fact of the matter is, that America's past has never gone away because it has never been dealt with or none of us would be having the conversation of racism still existing in America. You know, if the org closes tomorrow, then so be it. I will still have my beautiful and peaceful life. As far as racism, I handle it on an individual basis, and don't close my mind or eyes to say it doesn't exist. I rather live with the ugly truths of life than shove it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist. I've come this far and survived many racist attitudes, and I will continue to survive it. As far as those on this site that are doing everything in their power to trash and bash certain orgers, by posting their usernames and trying to slander them, because they can't stand the fact that they are not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world and within their communities, well then I feel sorry for you that you cannot deal with the world having so many different people, opinions and personalities, but you will never, ever in your life possess the power to mold them into what you want them to be, instead of accepting them for who they are. Now some of the reaction to what I have stated in this post will not surprise me, it will be predictable of course , but I could live with that, as it won't take a damn thing away from my blessed and beautiful life. But in closing, life goes on people and in that being said I wish you all well.
Peace! [Edited 5/23/08 8:20am] dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive.
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten? a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here? i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. I could not have said that better myself. | |
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2elijah said: Serious said: I don't agree with a lot of things mdiver says in P&R nor do I agree with the way he says some things on this forum as it just adds to the atmosphere, but IMO he has a point here. Although abusive may be a hard word the black community here often doesn't give whites the impression that their opinion is something they are interested in hearing and value and that's a shame. I don't even think that most do that on purpose, but that's the way they make me and others feel . As I don't think it's fun to discuss with people who give me the impression I better shut up I rarely post here.
[Edited 5/22/08 5:26am] That's not true serious. Most of the orgers within the black community get chastized many times when discussing experiences of racism that they experience on a daily basis. We don't expect others outside our race to understand. No one is saying that no other race has experienced prejudice attitudes, but somehow when it is discussed, many non-black orgers will say we are playing victim or they will belittle our experience by saying "oh you were not the only ones discrimnated against". Thing is, we discuss our experiences and those of family members and friends before us, to make others aware that racism is still alive and well in this country. We go about our daily lives, but we are aware that it exists. No one is looking for sympathy or playing the victim game, point is, these experiences have existed and exist for many of us. Yet when a disagreement occurs, many, not all of the non-black orgers "cry victim" and start pointing fingers accusing non-white orgers of baiting and using terms like "ganging up", "abuse", "attack"...phrases all too common of stereotypical views. As far as people saying they can't express their opinions, how is that so when they are doing that right now? I mean who is stopping them? Many say they want to participate in "race" discussions, but when many Black History Month" threads were posted, there was very, low participation from non-black orgers. No one stopped any of them from participating. All I have seen is people calling out names unfairly of Orgers on this thread, some who are not here to defend themselves, and quite frankly, that is just unfair and just another form of baiting or slandering those individual's names; a way of "blacklisting" them so that when other orgers log on and read what is posted against them, will have a negative effect. I could do the same to some I refuse to hold a second of a conversation, but I will not stoop that low. I think all would be happy if many of the orgers of African-American descent just stop posting on this site period. From the treatment many of us have received, i.e., the insults, accusations, speaking the ugly truth about racism, banned or posts snipped quicker than most because we are outspoken about race issues, etc. I have had many conversations with non-black orgers on these forums, that have treated me with the utmost respect while discussing the issues of race, even when we disagreed on certain aspects of it. On the other hand, I have received some responses that I found accusatory, abusive, some of mockery, and some that even said they were tired of some of us discussing our experiences period. I remember posting an article regarding on Irish slavery within another article based on race/slavery, that actually took place in this country, England and the Caribbean, and very little responded while, many black or white, etc., orgers, seemed to take interest in the subject at all;, then in that same thread I was told "to get back on topic" by a very, rude and insulting orger.. Honestly, to those who have no interest in discussing those issues, then that is their choice, we pick and choose our battles. But when you choose those battles, remember that you chose them. No one forced you or put a gun to your head. Various personalities and attitudes exists on and off the forums, so that should not be a surprise to anyone. I respect your choice, but then when things get heated don't cry and play victim. It amazes me that some people on this thread who claim they want to see change in this country, and admitted their desire to vote for a presidential candidate pushing for change, (i.e, race relations), but then at the same time, those same individuals are singing songs to a different tune right here in this thread. So how do they expect others here to take them seriously about wanting to see race relations change in this country, when they keep changing the tune to their song? It amazes me that they say one thing but really mean another. If people would take just 5 minutes to put their egos on the shelves, and actually read the various experiences posted of those who discuss their experiences regarding the racism they experienced , and not interject with responses of "that's nonsense" or "get over it" without hearing them out fully, or thinking the individual discussing their experience is pulling the "blame game" or trying to push "guilt" on specific persons, then maybe we could get just an inch closer to discussing finding solutions instead of snide responses which only adds to the problem. It's not a matter of crying for sympathy regarding America's ugly past, the fact of the matter is, that America's past has never gone away because it has never been dealt with or none of us would be having the conversation of racism still existing in America. As far as racism, I handle it on an individual basis, and don't close my mind or eyes to say it doesn't exist. I rather live with the ugly truths of life than shove it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist. I've come this far and survived many racist attitudes, and I will continue to survive it. As far as those on this site that are doing everything in their power to trash and bash certain orgers, by posting their usernames and trying to slander them, because they can't stand the fact that they are not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world and within their communities, well then I feel sorry for you that you cannot deal with the world having so many different people, opinions and personalities, but you will never, ever in your life possess the power to mold them into what you want them to be, instead of accepting them for who they are. You know, if the org closes tomorrow, then so be it, especially with all the sexual content and pics, being posted in various forums all over this site with underaged members viewing and participating as members on it as well, it would not surprise me if it did. Not to mention the racist attitudes, comments, baiting, stalking, trailing and false accusations towards non-white members that has been apparent for some time now on this site, and regardless of all the complaints to certain mods and the site owner, nothing is ever done about it. Now I don't expect the reaction to my post to be of peaches and cream because of what I have stated, but that in itself will not surprise me, it will be predictable of course , but I could live with that, as it won't take a damn thing away from my blessed, beautiful and peaceful life. But in closing, life goes on people and in that being said I wish you all well.
Peace! [Edited 5/23/08 9:11am] I am aware that many black orgers feel the way you describe it. They and their families have been discriminated against and still have to face racism. They try to raise awareness and fight for equality. They are sick and tired of being told that they need to get over it. I understand all that and agree with it. It's a damn shame that people are treated different because of the colour of their skin or because of where they come from. It's one of the darkest chapters in the history of mankind that millions of people have been enslaved because of the colour of their skin. It's something that should never be forgotten especially as it still affects the lives of millions of people in one way or another. What I don't agree with is that orgers would like to stop blacks from posting their experiences and share their view on things. There may be some rare exceptions, but I am quite sure the vast majority here doesn't think like that. IMO some blacks here assume because of experiences they have made in their life that whites are likely to not care about their situation and try to belittle it when they mention other cases of discrimination or victims of repression. Like the stupid discussions who had it worse, the blacks or the Jews . But that's often just not the case. Just as blacks are tired of being not taken seriously when it comes to their valid "complaints" (sorry I don't know any better English word) I am tired of having to face the situation here on the org again and again that I am told being white and therefore will never understand anything and probably just don't want to hear the ugly truth anyway.
Most of the black orgers probably don't even see that we whites at times do get the feeling that our thoughts/experiences are not welcome or at least not near as "valuable" as the thoughts of blacks. But all I can say that I got this feeling several times. Not necessarily as a reaction to something I posted, but probably even before I would have started posting just from reading the tone in certain threads. Sure I could have continued posting and just not care, but why should I post in a discussion if I have the impression my viewpoint isn't of any interest and certain groups of people start telling that we will never understand anyway and don't know anything. I can honestly say that I never ever posted anything that may have implied I think that blacks play the victim card and need to move on and get over it. Because that's not my opinion as I think that not only America, but all countries have a long way to go to reach equal rights for everybody (different races/sexes/sexual orientations) in everyday life. I don't have any problem to be told "the ugly truth about racism", I am quite aware racism exists and when I see it I will try to stand up against it. I am not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world, not at all. There is still racism in the USA as well as elsewhere towards blacks, no doubt about that. With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A.... | |
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evenstar3 said: 2elijah said: That's not true serious. Most of the orgers within the black community get chastized many times when discussing experiences of racism that they experience on a daily basis. We don't expect others outside our race to understand. No one is saying that no other race has experienced prejudice attitudes, but somehow when it is discussed, many non-black orgers will say we are playing victim or they will belittle our experience by saying "oh you were not the only ones discrimnated against". Thing is, we discuss our experiences and those of family members and friends before us, to make others aware that racism is still alive and well in this country. We go about our daily lives, but we are aware that it exists. No one is looking for sympathy or playing the victim game, point is, these experiences have existed and exist for many of us. Yet when a disagreement occurs, many, not all of the non-black orgers "cry victim" and start pointing fingers accusing non-white orgers of baiting and using terms like "ganging up", "abuse", "attack"...phrases all too common of stereotypical views. As far as people saying they can't express their opinions, how is that so when they are doing that right now? I mean who is stopping them? Many say they want to participate in "race" discussions, but when many Black History Month" threads were posted, there was very, low participation from non-black orgers. No one stopped any of them from participating. All I have seen is people calling out names unfairly of Orgers on this thread, some who are not here to defend themselves, and quite frankly, that is just unfair and just another form of baiting or slandering those individual's names; a way of "blacklisting" them so that when other orgers log on and read what is posted against them, will have a negative effect. I could do the same to some I refuse to hold a second of a conversation, but I will not stoop that low. I think all would be happy if many of the orgers of African-American descent just stop posting on this site period. From the treatment many of us have received, i.e., the insults, accusations, speaking the ugly truth about racism, banned or posts snipped quicker than most because we are outspoken about race issues, etc. I have had many conversations with non-black orgers on these forums, that have treated me with the utmost respect while discussing the issues of race, even when we disagreed on certain aspects of it. On the other hand, I have received some responses that I found accusatory, abusive, some of mockery, and some that even said they were tired of some of us discussing our experiences period. I remember posting an article regarding on Irish slavery within another article based on race/slavery, that actually took place in this country, England and the Caribbean, and very little responded while, many black or white, etc., orgers, seemed to take interest in the subject at all;, then in that same thread I was told "to get back on topic" by a very, rude and insulting orger.. Honestly, to those who have no interest in discussing those issues, then that is their choice, we pick and choose our battles. But when you choose those battles, remember that you chose them. No one forced you or put a gun to your head. Various personalities and attitudes exists on and off the forums, so that should not be a surprise to anyone. I respect your choice, but then when things get heated don't cry and play victim. It amazes me that some people on this thread who claim they want to see change in this country, and admitted their desire to vote for a presidential candidate pushing for change, (i.e, race relations), but then at the same time, those same individuals are singing songs to a different tune right here in this thread. So how do they expect others here to take them seriously about wanting to see race relations change in this country, when they keep changing the tune to their song? It amazes me that they say one thing but really mean another. If people would take just 5 minutes to put their egos on the shelves, and actually read the various experiences posted of those who discuss their experiences regarding the racism they experienced , and not interject with responses of "that's nonsense" or "get over it" without hearing them out fully, or thinking the individual discussing their experience is pulling the "blame game" or trying to push "guilt" on specific persons, then maybe we could get just an inch closer to discussing finding solutions instead of snide responses which only adds to the problem. It's not a matter of crying for sympathy regarding America's ugly past, the fact of the matter is, that America's past has never gone away because it has never been dealt with or none of us would be having the conversation of racism still existing in America. You know, if the org closes tomorrow, then so be it. I will still have my beautiful and peaceful life. As far as racism, I handle it on an individual basis, and don't close my mind or eyes to say it doesn't exist. I rather live with the ugly truths of life than shove it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist. I've come this far and survived many racist attitudes, and I will continue to survive it. As far as those on this site that are doing everything in their power to trash and bash certain orgers, by posting their usernames and trying to slander them, because they can't stand the fact that they are not afraid to speak out about social ills in this world and within their communities, well then I feel sorry for you that you cannot deal with the world having so many different people, opinions and personalities, but you will never, ever in your life possess the power to mold them into what you want them to be, instead of accepting them for who they are. Now some of the reaction to what I have stated in this post will not surprise me, it will be predictable of course , but I could live with that, as it won't take a damn thing away from my blessed and beautiful life. But in closing, life goes on people and in that being said I wish you all well.
Peace! [Edited 5/23/08 8:20am] dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive.
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten?
a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here? i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on! | |
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Can someone kill this thread already? It's become pointless.
Richard, I appreciate that you started this thread.  | |
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2elijah said: evenstar3 said: dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive.
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten?
a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here? i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on!
From the rules of this site You're responsible for what you write. Individual authors of prince.org messages are solely responsible for their content, I am sure you would have not accepted it if i had said "it was Mf's fault or it was Greycaps fault" when i got banned because of the above so just as it is our fault we got banned (evenstar and I) it is also nobody but their fault that they got banned. You maintain that people should not think there is any gang mentality and that is stereotypical so how do you expect people to do that when your post is littered with phrases like "many of us" and "ringleaders", it just does not add up. Even within your tirade above you seem confused and angry, just because you don't like an opinion that does not make it wrong or make it BAIT. Just as you are allowed your opinion the the rest of the world is also. [Edited 5/23/08 9:38am] | |
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2elijah said: evenstar3 said: dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive.
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten?
a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here? i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on! could you possibly try addressing what i actually posted, instead of just writing me off with 'oh, i expected that'? this isn't me baiting you to try and get you banned (wtf, by the way? ), but trying to engage you in dicussion about this, and if you perceive it that way i'm sorry.
yeah, i've baited back, i got snipped and banned for it. but, as you may have missed me pointing out- so have you, so has most everyone who's posted here. we're all major posters in p&r, it happens. really, i trail no one's posts specifically but my boyfriend's, despite how much MF or anyone else wants to believe otherwise. i post in all sorts of threads in p&r- political, religious, etc, not just those about racism, and i have for a long time. you used to yell at me for even daring to post in the same thread as you at one point, but i thought we were past that.
i never said you weren't entitled to an opinion, if you look at the first line of my post i point out that we're all entitled to one & that the denial or belittlement of that is what's caused so much of this. | |
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mdiver said: just because you don't like an opinion that does not make it wrong or make it BAIT.
yeah- like elijah, my opinion of your opinion that 'all would be happy if african american orgers stopped posting' is that it's totally off, and me telling you that isn't baiting, imo. i would genuinely like to know why you think such a blanket statement is true. | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I feel that there have been a lot of growing pains with regards to race issues in this forum but I for one am happy to see such active participation by black members who are sharing with the broader P&R audience their world and what makes it go round. Of course this is not to say that all blacks have all the same experiences but there are many experiences that most share and which are unique to the community and I am glad to learn about them. Thanks everyone
 Thank you again Supa for having an open mind and embracing the experiences of those of us outside your community, and not allowing your ego to get in the way, as we shared our experiences with you, no matter how ugly the reality of those experiences were or are, you always seem to show an interest and share your experience as well, without belittling ours or insulting us. Well, continue being you, and I know you and I did not start off on a smooth plate, but in time that situation has been resolved. I don't know you personally, but judging from my conversations with you, I just want you to know that I appreciate you and many others here that have been willing to listen and share their experiences with us as well. Peace and take care! [Edited 5/23/08 10:26am] | |
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Serious said: Rhondab said: your nerve is unbelievable. I don't agree with a lot of things mdiver says in P&R nor do I agree with the way he says some things on this forum as it just adds to the atmosphere, but IMO he has a point here. Although abusive may be a hard word the black community here often doesn't give whites the impression that their opinion is something they are interested in hearing and value and that's a shame. I don't even think that most do that on purpose, but that's the way they make me and others feel . As I don't think it's fun to discuss with people who give me the impression I better shut up I rarely post here.
[Edited 5/22/08 5:26am] In all honesty, some have dismissed outright concerns of black members and their experiences. Anymore I don't know if the real reason for that is an open minded attitude or if some agenda is cloaked in open mindedness. Just the other day I got off the train and there was a guard checking departing passengers for their passes and the guard asked a black man for his pass and he showed him and the guard grabbed it from him and then started examining it up and down, back and forth and there was a fray at the edge and the guard claimed that passes don't fray and that it was fake. Meanwhile I cannot pass and be on my way because of this. I looked at my pass and saw that the edge of my pass did the same thing as that man's and while the guard was telling him it was fake and he could fine him $250 if he wanted to, I pushed my pass in front of the guard telling him our passes are made of paper and mine is fraying too. He just looked at me blankly and then continued lecturing the black guy. Now some will come in and always claim that black people are reading racism into it, meanwhile what the hell is it if his focus was not on me or any other non-black person? There are a lot of subtle ways in which blacks still suffer from racism in this country and they are real and I personally appreciate the utopian ideal and pursuit of a colorblind society but some who claim that is their goal still dismiss real things that are happening to real people. If that was happening to you, do you think you'd be open if that is what you encountered every time you expressed your grievences? 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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2elijah said: evenstar3 said: dude, it's not about playing the victim, it was about being sick and tired of being unable to debate ANYTHING in threads about race without being told your opinion wasn't to be held as valid as anyone else's by Muthafunka or whoever. and yes, i'm using his name specifically because we ALL know he did that pretty damn often if you disagreed with his point. it has nothing to do with not liking anyone who's outspoken about 'social ills, etc'- it's when people try to insist that their opinion is THE most valid, over and over, based on their arbitrary view of a situation, that it gets ridiculous. and as far as accusing people of 'slandering' others simply by mentioning their orgnames- do you think it's any better of you to make the accusations you've done here (e.g., some people say they support Obama but 'but really mean another' thing)? i find that kind of slanted jibe just as offensive.
didn't most of the non-black orgers on this thread participate quite a bit in the black history month threads? perhaps you've forgotten?
a lot of what you're saying here is way out there, imo- where do you get off thinking no one wants african-american orgers to post here? i'm sorry, but that's total bullshit. it's not just black orgers than have been banned or snipped either, i'm pretty sure ALL of us have been here at some point.
that said, i think p&r has been in a positive uptick lately & that trend should continue until things get nasty between conservatives and liberals around the election. Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on! I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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double post edit. [Edited 5/23/08 10:34am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Serious said: I don't agree with a lot of things mdiver says in P&R nor do I agree with the way he says some things on this forum as it just adds to the atmosphere, but IMO he has a point here. Although abusive may be a hard word the black community here often doesn't give whites the impression that their opinion is something they are interested in hearing and value and that's a shame. I don't even think that most do that on purpose, but that's the way they make me and others feel . As I don't think it's fun to discuss with people who give me the impression I better shut up I rarely post here.
[Edited 5/22/08 5:26am] In all honesty, some have dismissed outright concerns of black members and their experiences. Anymore I don't know if the real reason for that is an open minded attitude or if some agenda is cloaked in open mindedness. Just the other day I got off the train and there was a guard checking departing passengers for their passes and the guard asked a black man for his pass and he showed him and the guard grabbed it from him and then started examining it up and down, back and forth and there was a fray at the edge and the guard claimed that passes don't fray and that it was fake. Meanwhile I cannot pass and be on my way because of this. I looked at my pass and saw that the edge of my pass did the same thing as that man's and while the guard was telling him it was fake and he could fine him $250 if he wanted to, I pushed my pass in front of the guard telling him our passes are made of paper and mine is fraying too. He just looked at me blankly and then continued lecturing the black guy. Now some will come in and always claim that black people are reading racism into it, meanwhile what the hell is it if his focus was not on me or any other non-black person? There are a lot of subtle ways in which blacks still suffer from racism in this country and they are real and I personally appreciate the utopian ideal and pursuit of a colorblind society but some who claim that is their goal still dismiss real things that are happening to real people. If that was happening to you, do you think you'd be open if that is what you encountered every time you expressed your grievences? I said before that I am aware that racism still happens. If I was there when that happened I would have reacted the exact same way you did. I can understand that blacks are sensitive as a result of having been treated unfair again and again. As I know that and as I know how I would react if I were in such a situation I try to be more sensitive myself and show that I am sincere. As I don't want to add any more to the way discussions are done here I usually just keep my mouth shut. What else should I do in your opinion? With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A.... | |
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Serious said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: In all honesty, some have dismissed outright concerns of black members and their experiences. Anymore I don't know if the real reason for that is an open minded attitude or if some agenda is cloaked in open mindedness. Just the other day I got off the train and there was a guard checking departing passengers for their passes and the guard asked a black man for his pass and he showed him and the guard grabbed it from him and then started examining it up and down, back and forth and there was a fray at the edge and the guard claimed that passes don't fray and that it was fake. Meanwhile I cannot pass and be on my way because of this. I looked at my pass and saw that the edge of my pass did the same thing as that man's and while the guard was telling him it was fake and he could fine him $250 if he wanted to, I pushed my pass in front of the guard telling him our passes are made of paper and mine is fraying too. He just looked at me blankly and then continued lecturing the black guy. Now some will come in and always claim that black people are reading racism into it, meanwhile what the hell is it if his focus was not on me or any other non-black person? There are a lot of subtle ways in which blacks still suffer from racism in this country and they are real and I personally appreciate the utopian ideal and pursuit of a colorblind society but some who claim that is their goal still dismiss real things that are happening to real people. If that was happening to you, do you think you'd be open if that is what you encountered every time you expressed your grievences? I said before that I am aware that racism still happens. If I was there when that happened I would have reacted the exact same way you did. I can understand that blacks are sensitive as a result of having been treated unfair again and again. As I know that and as I know how I would react if I were in such a situation I try to be more sensitive myself and show that I am sincere. As I don't want to add any more to the way discussions are done here I usually just keep my mouth shut. What else should I do in your opinion? I think you should do what any person should do and that is to share your thoughts regardless. There are some who have the attitude that you're not black and won't understand. I've had the same charge against me but I don't ever let it stop me from stating my opinion. In a way I can understand because I am gay and straights don't often understand because they will never go through what I go through. But I realize also that doesn't mean someone can't see even if they will never walk in my shoes. I think so much of the issue comes down to personality conflicts. But the dismissive attitude really doesn't help either way. Anyone who wants to share their views, should. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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And seriously, I normally let people fight their own battles but I really resent and reject charges of Rhonda being a racist. I mean really. She is one of the most levelheaded and fair people on this entire site.
. [Edited 5/23/08 11:18am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Serious said: I said before that I am aware that racism still happens. If I was there when that happened I would have reacted the exact same way you did. I can understand that blacks are sensitive as a result of having been treated unfair again and again. As I know that and as I know how I would react if I were in such a situation I try to be more sensitive myself and show that I am sincere. As I don't want to add any more to the way discussions are done here I usually just keep my mouth shut. What else should I do in your opinion? I think you should do what any person should do and that is to share your thoughts regardless. There are some who have the attitude that you're not black and won't understand. I've had the same charge against me but I don't ever let it stop me from stating my opinion. In a way I can understand because I am gay and straights don't often understand because they will never go through what I go through. But I realize also that doesn't mean someone can't see even if they will never walk in my shoes. I think so much of the issue comes down to personality conflicts. But the dismissive attitude really doesn't help either way. Anyone who wants to share their views, should. It just doesn't make any sense to me to post in threads that sooner or later end up in name calling and baiting (and I am not saying that comes from just one side) and where 90% of the people posting seem to have made their minds up about posts just from judging who makes them. I don't see any constructive discussions going on here for long, it's the same every time and I am tired of it. With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A.... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: 2elijah said: Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on! I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. | |
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2elijah said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. Supa knows me better than you.
I do wish you'd address some of the outlandish statements you've made in this thread, instead of seemingly pretending you as though you hadn't said them, but I understand if you can't I guess. It's very disheartening to me that this pattern of throwing out statements like that but then not explaining them will continue, though. | |
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Serious said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I think you should do what any person should do and that is to share your thoughts regardless. There are some who have the attitude that you're not black and won't understand. I've had the same charge against me but I don't ever let it stop me from stating my opinion. In a way I can understand because I am gay and straights don't often understand because they will never go through what I go through. But I realize also that doesn't mean someone can't see even if they will never walk in my shoes. I think so much of the issue comes down to personality conflicts. But the dismissive attitude really doesn't help either way. Anyone who wants to share their views, should. It just doesn't make any sense to me to post in threads that sooner or later end up in name calling and baiting (and I am not saying that comes from just one side) and where 90% of the people posting seem to have made their minds up about posts just from judging who makes them. I don't see any constructive discussions going on here for long, it's the same every time and I am tired of it. Well I have the attitude that even if it's going to be the same story different day that I will give my opinions if I feel they are constructive because how would you ever expect a thread to take a different or positive direction if direction is never provided? Ever consider that someone is reading the thread without participating in it? It happens and for that reason I always contribute even if things are "going downhill" so to speak. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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double post damn! 
[Edited 5/23/08 11:17am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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2elijah said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. Well.... we'll just agree to disagree then 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: 2elijah said: Of course I expected you to respond, should I be surprised?? because if you want to go there with names, you have been one of the "main" ringleaders in trying your best to bait Muthafunka and Gray and persistently doing everything you can to do that, even when they "ignored" you. You persistently trailed their posts as though no one would notice.
You did the same thing to me for a long time and I ignored you. You say P&R has been positive lately? Of course, because for sometime now many of us have ignored the "usual" crew that have continously tried to "bait" us. What I've stated in my posts remain "true and valid".....and with that being said, I will not play into your usual game of "bait to ban", so you can continue with your response to my posts, but from here on in I will ignore your responses. I stick by every word in my above posts, and like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Evenstar, have a wonderful and blessed day! Carry on! I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. When someone states "You're not black so you won't understand" it is not telling them they can't offer their opinions on black/white issues, they are basically saying "You can understand but only to a limited degree" basically, because they don't walk in their shoes, or may not have seen situations the poster has experienced, such as what you yourself Supa has experienced with some of your friends and the situation at the airport that you posted about on this thread. There's a difference. It's the same as a white person telling me that I could never understand their experience on racist issues, as I don't walk in their shoes. If they tell me they experienced racial prejudice, how can I tell them they didn't? I'm not them, so it would be foolish for me to disagree. The bottom line is, there are posters that can't handle discussions on race, and should know it is a very,sensitive topic and emotions, anger, judging, name-calling, insults will somehow find its way in some of those threads, but I do not ever recall any non-white orgers telling white orgers they could not post their opinions on race in those type of threads and I believe those accusations are just another form of "playing victim." [Edited 5/23/08 11:23am] | |
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2elijah said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I really don't agree. What we are dealing with is a personality conflict on all fronts. I think Laurel, althought challenging some of the most outspoken orgers is very fair when it comes to race issues. Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. When someone states "You're not black so you won't understand" it is not telling them they can't offer their opinions on black/white issues, they are basically saying "You can understand but only to a limited degree" basically, because they don't walk in their shoes, or may not have seen situations the poster has experienced, such as what you yourself Supa has experienced with some of your friends and the situation at the airport that you posted about on this thread. There's a difference. It's the same as a white person telling me that I could never understand their experience on racist issues, as I don't walk in their shoes. If they tell me they experienced racial prejudice, how can I tell them they didn'tt? I'm not them, so it would be foolish for me to disagree. Well I think there needs to be another way of phrasing it then. Because it tends to make people feel excluded. And the reality is that they can't be included in an experience they will never experience for the sake that they don't have the pre-requisites which lead to those experiences but it's not fair on either side to say you can't understand when an experience doesn't have to happen to someone for them to see that it happening to someone else is wrong. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: 2elijah said: Sorry, Supa...but on this one, I don't agree with you, but still respect your opinion anyway. It is what it is. When someone states "You're not black so you won't understand" it is not telling them they can't offer their opinions on black/white issues, they are basically saying "You can understand but only to a limited degree" basically, because they don't walk in their shoes, or may not have seen situations the poster has experienced, such as what you yourself Supa has experienced with some of your friends and the situation at the airport that you posted about on this thread. There's a difference. It's the same as a white person telling me that I could never understand their experience on racist issues, as I don't walk in their shoes. If they tell me they experienced racial prejudice, how can I tell them they didn'tt? I'm not them, so it would be foolish for me to disagree. Well I think there needs to be another way of phrasing it then. Because it tends to make people feel excluded. And the reality is that they can't be included in an experience they will never experience for the sake that they don't have the pre-requisites which lead to those experiences but it's not fair on either side to say you can't understand when an experience doesn't have to happen to someone for them to see that it happening to someone else is wrong. It is often expressed in a way (here on the org) that gives you the feeling you better shut up as you don't know shit.With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A.... | |
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Serious said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Well I think there needs to be another way of phrasing it then. Because it tends to make people feel excluded. And the reality is that they can't be included in an experience they will never experience for the sake that they don't have the pre-requisites which lead to those experiences but it's not fair on either side to say you can't understand when an experience doesn't have to happen to someone for them to see that it happening to someone else is wrong. It is often expressed in a way (here on the org) that gives you the feeling you better shut up as you don't know shit.This isn't exclusive to the black community. "Groups" of all kinds do it. I have said the same type of thing to someone because they are not gay and it's always because someone is dismissing the issues I and my community face. I do my best though not to carry that over into any and all responses. I try and give people the benefit of the doubt but when it comes to this issue, some of the serial "dismissers" I feel are doing it to get people's goats and to aggrivate and not for altruistic reasons. But yeah, I can definitely understand the frustration. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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