SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Everyone in prison is innocent.

CarrieMpls said:

Thanks Carrie.

CarrieMpls said:

While calling it a boldfaced lie may have been a bit much, does it make it any less untrue? Carrie, I have been threatened with being banned with no history, no strikes and just the one orgnote warning that a ban was the next step. No talking about it, no asking questions: nothing.

BTW, I got warned for discussing the exact same issues on this thread right now.

Mars23 said:

hardy har har. I have contacted mods in the past over issues that I thought were unfair to receive absolutely no response. If it's happened to me, it could very well have happened to these others. I trust Janfriend and Stymie as I know them personally.

CarrieMpls said:

Forgive me if I attempt to speak for several of us, but we don't necessarily disagree with that we HAVE a record, in some cases (or all ) but we ARE saying that we didn't recieve proper warning before being banned, or never even warned that a strike had been issued against us.
Right people, that's what we're saying?

CarrieMpls said:

He was generalizing, by stating that everyone who says they didn't get a warning is a liar. He should speak for his moderating only

Mars23 said:

You won't know that until you're in prison

Janfriend said:

He's doing just that, it's just that you (we, up until his and mine convo in orgnotes) can't see it cos we've got a red cloth blocking our view. Like Carrie said, all June can speak about is his experience and he's doing that. Did you really expect him to bend over and accept guilt for something he didn't do?

Stymie said:

How far in the past was this?

I feel like no one can win with you, Ivy. You seem to want to complain about the past no matter what anyone has to say. I can tell you what you can do going forward, and I can apologize about what's happened even if I've had no part in it, but if you're so turned off about what's happened in the past that you've no faith in the moderation for the future, I wonder why you bother posting in this forum.

CarrieMpls said:

Nevermind.

Fuck it edit.
[Edited 2/12/08 17:00pm]

I try to take everything in moderation.
I'm not always successful, but I do put in the effort.
My record doesn't get any straighter than that.
Brohams.

Teacher said:

No, not at all, but I also don't think he should assume everyone moderates the same as he does and then make a statement like he knows what is fact and what's not
[Edited 2/12/08 19:21pm]

CarrieMpls said:

YIKES...isn't this something for an orgnote maybe.....

Rhondab said:

I like orgnotes.

I've had very few reasons to message moderators about anything here
On the occasions I have, usually about threads being removed, edited etc, I have always received a reply
I might not have liked the reason, but there has always been one and they have always been courteous
The mods are damned if they do and damned if they don't, with regard to their actions
With the extraordinarily broad spectrum of personalities and characters on any website, especially one as well established as this one, there are always going to be disagreements over any decision taken
I think its also important to mention the mods give up their time free and gratis to try and ensure this website operates within the laws of several different countries, and that its a pleasant environment for anyone to use
Maybe instead of being so critical of the human decisions they make, people should simply appreciate the effort they, and the admin, put in here and be thankful for this free resource we all get to share
You can't please all of the people all of the time

All I will say is that I think the moderation of this site is ridiculous relative to how it's done on several other forums I visit.

Having attempted to deal with moderators now once banned (I didn't even know why I was banned - I had to get evenstar to email and find out - and June, you KNOW that's true), I can tell you it's ridiculously secretive, dictatorial and personal.
The decision to ban me was personal on the part of the moderator in question, he did not consult all the other mods as I was originally told in an email (because I emailed the other mods and they were shocked).

Moderating decisions should always be discussed, all orgers should have right to appeal, and, finally, Ben should never have final say because:
a) He's never here (and don't say otherwise).
b) He only replies to moderator's emails.
c) He doesn't know us.
d) He always supports the mods, regardless.

That is not a fair system, however you look at it.

I originally wrote a 2,000-ish word essay in Word to copy and paste upon being unbanned, but because I quote email correspondence between me and various mods, I have a feeling I'd create a lot of in-fighting between mods.

All that I will say is that it's very clear that some moderators moderate based on who their friends are and aren't on this site. It's ridiculous. Obviously not all do, but there should be some kind of check to make sure one Mod is not taking a personal decision - maybe a hierarchy of mods with mods like Mach, Luv, Sweeney overseeing and approving decisions?

Incidentally, I do not deny - in fact, I accept - that what I said was inappropriate and that it merited punishing. You should see less dark jokes and swearing from me now.

That said, a perma ban? recurrent record of offenses?

Note how the "recurrent record of offenses" is something that seems to take every banned orger by suprise. Perhaps a warning first? How's about a chance to redeem yourself?

I had plans to take this site off ben's hands, put it in private (modern) dedicated hosting and redesign the site, but I'm now so disenfranchised I just don't care.
[Edited 2/16/08 11:53am]

Is there any way we can find out if we've any strikes against us or had any warnings that are permanent, on record and still stand now? 'Cause I can't imagine I'd have any strikes against me as I've not so much as had a post snipped in years, but this all has me thinking that maybe I just don't realise how the system works. Could there be strikes from years back? If so, should they still stand if an orger hasn't needed moderation for a long time? One offence for the first time in ages could see someone banned if long ago they'd been in trouble. Is that correct?

I'd like to know how much room I've got left to work with here.

I think there are good moderators here and some pretty poor ones. I appreciate everyone for taking the time to do it though.

It's not 3 strikes = a ban of some duration then?

It's all so confusing!

Can someone please, with bullet points, break it down for me? How much is discretion and how much is just a rigid system? If there is a rigid system or incremental step thing going on to how it works I need it explained like I'm a 6 year old.

Fauxie said:

It essentially depends on the mod and how they feel at that particular moment.

benyamin said:

I was told today on my record there's a ban, 3 strikes and boots from the chat. I can't account for the 3 strikes as I'm sure I've not received warning orgnotes about them.

Boots from chat?? But JustErin incited me to capitalize!

Fauxie said:

You've been in chat? What was it like?

I've had 2 strikes, 2 temp bans, 1 perma ban, and warning orgnotes about the odd post in GD, usually followed by either me editing my post or it being snipped.

benyamin said:

Perma ban eh? Well Laurel, you do a very convincing Benyamin.

My ban was just 48 hours and was years ago. Bev was kind enough to let me know about my track record, but it wasn't easy to get details out of her initially. I don't think it's something they really want to get into. I just wanted to know where I stand. I still don't know where the strikes came from, if they're separate to the ban.

The chat? It's like having sex with a fat girl. It's slow, time-consuming, you know you could be having more fun doing something else instead, but ultimately when it ends you're glad you came.

Fauxie said:

In actuality Laurel *really* wasn't posting as me, etc. Yes, she was sticking up for me, and yes I was talking to her the whole way through, but no, I never posted as her.

My only bannings have come from P&R, it should be mentioned, because I didn't get how it worked there and argued abusively. Naive old me.

benyamin said:

I mean now. You're here and yet you were permabanned? It was good that it brought a few things to peoples' attention though.

Fauxie said:

We don't need more mods, we need a new moderation system.

I'd like a moderation forum, which would be the only place banned users could post - almost like a court for banned users to plead their case, etc. It would have to be totally open. So many of the moderating problems arise here due to the ridiculous secrecy policy that is essentially just a dictatorial enactment designed to protect the mods from taking shit for terrible decisions.

benyamin said:

Moderation forum sounds like something deserving further discussion.

Ok, I realise I may be singling someone out here, but still, I think it's pertinent. Do we want a moderator reviewing posts, making decisions and whatnot when they're in a state that sees them make this post in the site discussion forum?





Just sayin'

Fauxie said:

That was in my essay.

.
[Edited 2/17/08 10:09am]

Fauxie said:

That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard of. There is no forum room against capitalizing and capitalizing doesn't always equal yelling. This is one of the main problems with the moderating here, people making up their own rules

benyamin said:

No! For Godsakes, string him up!!!

It's funny that you two (or three or whatever) have all this time to discuss the moderation process here and how different you would make it, even eluding to the prospect of "taking it off ben's hands"! (that one was my fave, btw)

I think you think too much of yourselves. Get over it. It happened. I reversed my decision - regardless of your statements, you have no idea why it was done or how, or who was involved. But you had two weeks to pout, write a fucking essay ( that's a whole 'nother story ), and obsess over the whole thing - yet, here it is, week three and your still not over yourself? Yes, I permabanned you. I also reduced that decision... and it was my decision to do so. I'm not going to sit here and regurgitate the whole thing... but, you're funny to think that I make decisions base on who I like, or don't. This is my fourth or fifth year moderating this site, and over ten years being on this site... and I'll be here long after you've grown bored with the place.

I was wondering what route you'd take upon your return. I'm not surprised that you decided to take the route you did... my suggestion? Move on.

Thank you.

June7 said:

No, just get rid of you as a mod. I actually appreciate the time you put in, but it just turns out that you're not particularly good at it.



Um:





Just try not to be completely rat-arsed when moderating the website and you'll be far better placed to defend yourself after backtracking on a poor decision.