I'm not sure what to think. In the "'Posts that I'll delete' thread locked..." thread, he totally removes some valuable criticism of him by Anxiety. Then in asks SkletonKee a question at the end, but locks the thread bofore an answer can be given by Mr. Kee.

And if this thread gets deleted because of some valid criticisms of moderators, then we're back to square one when the GD forum got shut down in the first place.

ohh...he removed my criticism also...im not liking this at all...and not even going to go into the tone of the orgnote I have recieved.

somebodys been feeling like Mel Brooks in History Of The World Part 1. Running around saying, "Its good to be the king!! Its good to be the king!!"

from http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=20880

ian said:

This is all well and good. But when you keep deleting criticisms of you or lock threads about the subject before anyone can respond, all you're doing is continuing the desire for people to start OTHER threads about it. To try to get some kind of reasonable debate about it. The more you delete/lock, the worse it's going to get. It'll get to the point it did with matt when ben felt he had to shut down the GD forum in the first place. You're stifling people's legitimate complaints/criticisms of how you go about doing your job. If you keep taking this approach, you're only going to create more work for yourself.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 26 15:39:11 PDT 2002 by Aaron]

I can take over his job ian, write ben bout it!

I dont have a problem with threads getting locked or deleted...however, i do have a problem with the way its being handled. dont send me snippy org.notes that include cursing...i dont talk to people like that in real life and i refuse to deal with people like that hear. (ask Calhoun...huh sweety? )

further more...i think if someone wants to discuss the effectiveness of a moderator they should be able to do it on the prince.org discussion forum..after all, debate is an effective way of *working through* problems. this abritrary, only in org.note crap does not bode well with me...i dont know these people personally and dont want them corresponding with me personally. you got something to say, say it so everyone can read it...maybe then you will treat people with respect in your responces...

"If you don't agree with a decision, you may discuss it with the moderator who made the judgement in private, but you aren't 'entitled' to a "hearing" or even a response. The rules outlined on this page, above, will be used as moderation guidelines."

wow, just noticed this rule. hey ben, why was this rule included? while i understand this is your site, i dont think i would have agreed to this rule and agreed to post things here if i knew this...

however, i dont think i violated and policies when addressing Ian about his post to Anxiety...After all, it wasnt *my* thread that was deleted...dont I have the right to share *my* opinion on matters? i've been doing that since day one...i think you have even changed parts of the site, or ways you handle matters because of my advise...

theres gotta be healthy debate..if you dont allow your visitors to feel like they are part of the community, they are going to stop visiting this site...then what do you have?

SkletonKee said:

I don't have a problem with ridiculous threads/posts being locked/deleted either. However, I don't think threads and posts that raise criticism of moderators are ridiculous. And if I were a moderator, I'd never have the audacity to try to cover up any dissent about how I'm doing my job. Take a "tough luck" position, sure. But to censor what people feel are valid complaints and grievances will quickly escalate into a problem, as they did when matt was using such heavy-handed tactics.

Well, coming out with phrases like "Get used to it" is clumsy, to say the least. Sounds like Assertiveness 101, Lesson One...

I felt that there was very little value in Anxiety's little rant - it was an insane paranoid little diatribe, a complete overreaction that was better kept to private messages. There was no room for further discussion (he decided to leave the site) so the only objective of the post was to generate attention. I felt that was the wrong way to start the new Org so I chose to censor the thread.

On the other hand, the "Prince.org site discussion" forum is perfectly suited for discussion concerns about the way the site is moderated.

I don't like the way some people on the site tried to undermine the efforts of Ben and Matt in the old GD Forum. I won't put up with any of that rubbish, you'll find. However there are two key points that should work in all our favour:

• I'm a reasonable, friendly person, I'll always be willing to listen to any feedback from any of the people on this site. I've been on the Org since day 1, I post here regularly myself, so I'm not some abstract figure sitting in an ivory tower making decisions from up high.
  
• I'm doing this in my spare time (what little of it I have) because I have a genuine interest in seeing the site improve and become a better place for all of us.
  

Instead of bitching about me, why not work with me to make the site a more pleasant experience? We don't come here every day of the week to argue do we? That would be a silly way to spend our time.

SkletonKee said:

SkletonKee also said (in another forum)

:

Yea, nice job on the no cursing thing.

Does refusing to deal with such "people" include answering their posts, mentioning their name & being asshole-ish?? Like I asked, please go back to ignoring me - I cursed in hopes that you'll actually do it this time considering your delicate sensibilities & all...

actually Calhoun...Lately, your posts have been sans the foul language that you so frequently used in the past and I was starting to enjoy your statements...and the reference above was simply a way to make light of our previous interactions with eachother..sorry you didnt see it that way.. i thought the would make it clear.

my original statement was more tounge-in-cheek also..hence the "lol" added...but since then I have realized that you hold some sorta grudge against me and maybe it is better to let bygones be bygones and not respond to your threads or posts...

with that in mind, I have always been polite to you and have only responded to your threads with recommendations on how to make the best of situations..never did i say you should stop posting or leave the site...you have a place here just like everyone else..i think, even the post you copied and pasted, is a testement to that (even though you conveniently edited the original message to make it appear as if i wasnt being balanced and fair).

and finally, in my book, *damn*, isnt a curse word...but good catch..maybe i shouldnt use it and probably wont from here on end...thanks!! sorry you think im being and arse-hole..are you sure your just not reading into my posts with your own biases?



oye!!
[This message was edited Mon Aug 26 21:41:55 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]
[This message was edited Mon Aug 26 21:51:23 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

SkletonKee said:

in other words...*bitter beer face*?



girl, lighten up...please...im begging you...life is too good...and i really dont dislike you...i love all, but that doesnt mean i cant give constructive criticism...

ian said:

Contradict much?

I'm not usually a big fan of "eye for an eye" actions, but this was just too much of a temptation for me to pass up.

When you're done feeling threatened, really take a look at some of the things you've said. I'm sorry for my tone over the weekend. The points I'm trying to get across, however, I stand by without apology. And I'm seeing I'm not alone.

You're not the only one who wants this site to be a pleasant experience. It's just that we need to get on the same page as to the definitions of "pleasant" and "experience".

Jesse Helms and George Carlin would have wildly different definitions of "pleasant" and "experience".

Anita Bryant and George Michael would have wildly different definitions of "pleasant" and "experience".

I don't think we're that radically different around here. But then, I can be more optimistic and naive than I give myself credit for sometimes...

This is what you call "leaving the site" is it?

Admit it, you're a drama queen, as bad as Oceana and the rest. If you want to continue posting, you're more than welcome, as I've already said. But if you're gonna leave, leave. Or do we need to listen to another few weeks of you explaining your decision to leave in vague emotional terms?

Cheers

Ian

SkletonKee said:

Maybe it was the "huh, sweety?" that sounded a bit smug IMO, and I've been rubbed the wrong way since our "discussion" in the GD forum. So yes, I'm definitely reading your posts w/ my own biases. I know you were nice about it (the advice you gave) but I've been here long enough to know what I like & dislike about the site - and if you know ME at all, you KNOW I'm gonna complain it if that's what I feel like doing. It's real simple: my question about thread limits wasn't a plea for your take on how I should maneuver through the Org.

I've noticed your posts lately too - you're giving out more advice than a Dr. Phil marathon, which is fine if that's what you wanna do. I just don't feel I'm in need of it.

We once had a very decent discussion about Black films - that stuff I'm glad to talk about. As far as any other interaction (i.e. giving me recommendations) I'll gladly (and quietly) take my grudge & go back to my corner if you'll agree to put the prescription pad away, at least when it comes to me. Thanks...

Calhoun,when are you and Skeleton gonna kiss and make up? This feud is silly and childish!

DavidEye said:

Hey David

There won't be any kissing, lol, but I agree it is pretty silly. This isn't a squabble, just a little clearing of the air. I should have left it alone but you know me, I just HAD to state my case. Moving on...

I think the problem here is that everyone here is talking about making the org a decent place but no one knows how to bite the bullet and let some of these childish things go. I was really starting to hate the old org. That is my opinion. I think the measures the moderators are going to have to take to keep the site "clean" aren't going to neccesarily sit well with everyone but that is the price we have to pay because when certain forums weren't being so closely moderated before, they were just plain outrageous and most things being said were neither positive nor neccessary.

adorable2 said:

I totally agree adorable2. It's a bitter pill to swallow (censorship, moderation etc) but it does get the job done We'll see how it goes. It will take time for people to get used to, but we can safely say that it couldn't be any worse than it was before

Hey, as long as nobody's being mean or purposefully offensive, I don't mind a rapper talking silly shit. Every board has an unmoderated forum. You don't make a big deal of it, and soon it doesn't become fun to harass the mods and everyone calms down. It works, trust me.

tommyalma said:

We've tried it, it didn't work. That's why we no longer have forums which are unmoderated. There are other sites you can go to for that kind of thing, but that's not what we choose to do with this website.

Hopefully though, once people settle into the new rules, the forums will police themselves and not require big brother to intervene all the time. Ideally I wouldn't have to be mister heavy-handed moderator at all.

I like Ian, he's mah friend

The fact that JMG1 likes me even though I've locked hundreds of her threads just shows what a friendly person she is. See, you can't take this moderation stuff personally

I would also like to voice the fact that I have no problem with ians moderation. Some things you may disagree on but give him a chance. I remember before Ian was a moderator, everyone liked him. Whats so different now? Hes helping Ben & co keep this site going & thats fine with me.

Its a bit like a police officer having to arrest his friend, hes just doing his job.

Thing is that only Ben & staff know what goes on behind the scenes of p.org. Maybe we dont realise how much our flaming & arguing must affect the traffic to this site.

thecloud9mission said:

ever the suck-up

aarom

buy a clue dude

ian puts the moderate into moderator

i think hes honest and fair

besides, give him a little more time before u start

a thread on his progress so far

cheers to ian

oh

and


\ / 0 0 / \ / \ s

Aaron said:

How about we rent a boxing ring so you can settle your dispute that way?

Seriously... please take it somewhere else. Thanks!

shausler said:

you're 10 days late. and ian's improved his performance since then kudos to ian!