LleeLlee said:

yeah, but the hippie dippie idealist in me believes that people don't walk around with a sign on their shirt that says "hi! i'm racist! and i think it's GREAT!"

and when people make racist comments on forums like this, on an online "community", sometimes i think it should be the goal of the rest of us not to simply SUPPRESS the comments, but to try to INFORM and EDUCATE those people as to why their comments are objectionable.

hard as it may be to believe, sometimes people JUST DON'T KNOW.

now, the people who DO know better...the ones who post bullshit just to troll and get people upset...those people should be disciplined appropriately, not JUST because they're posting racist comments, but because of the larger issue: they're manipulating other people's emotions for attention and their own "entertainment". that has less to do with the person at fault being a racist than it has to do with them being an insensitive, manipulative, immature ass. racism is merely the tool they're using to get their precious attention.

and then, there are people who truly are racist to the bone, and believe their feelings are righteous and true. and those people...well...i have no idea what can be done in these cases. i mean, if they're causing other people a sense of danger or discomfort with being on this site, then measures really need to be taken. maybe (uhhh, definitely?) the org is not the site for them.

then there are the people who might be working through their ignorance, and we have an opportunity to influence and inform their perceptions. which leads me to the beginning of my post.

i believe all of us, even the trolls, believe we're good people at heart. it's this perception of other people that makes me want us to have open lines of communication. any one of us can say something that may trigger something in someone else that may change them forever, maybe for the worse, but sometimes - maybe more often than we think - maybe fore the better, too.

and if it takes a well-thought out use of even "the n-word" to make someone understand something someday, then it will be a word well used. and i would rather that possibility be allowed to exist. i'm not presumptuous enough to say when or how that could or could not happen. but when we ban words, we also ban ideas. and to me, the thought of that kinda sucks.

Anx, as much as I appreciate the challenge of what you're saying about educating racist Orgers, I think that's a misguided mission.

Most of them aren't interested in being educated, only in offending and provoking -- and their posts attest to that. If rehabilitation -- not just mere interaction and dialogue -- is the approach mods are interested in seeking, I envision a lot more pointless, personal attacks.

It's one thing to say: "As offensive as his posts are, he's owed a chance to be heard." It's another to say: "I think we can broaden his understanding, despite the offensiveness of his posts."

ThreadBare said:

You need to take perspective into account, because what you're speaking of reeks of censorship. "Offensive" is relative to experience, and most people are biased when it comes to their convictions and views.

While I appreciate the effort, sos, the point is moot. Like any regular non-mod earthling, each individual mod is going to have a different knee-jerk reaction to it and do as they see fit without consulting anybody else. I was warned that I might be banned for posting a topic of discussion about a song that contained the word in its title (a highly influential song, no less). The topic was locked and deleted. Not a week later, a separate thread was started by somebody else with only the word "nigga" in the title ( http://www.prince.org/msg/8/192376 ). It racked up plenty of offensive posts and as far as I know is still open.

As others have said, banning the word will do nothing - it's not going to change the site and it's certainly not going to change somebody's deeply engrained belief systems.

Anx, as much as I appreciate the challenge of what you're saying about educating racist Orgers, I think that's a misguided mission.

Most of them aren't interested in being educated, only in offending and provoking -- and their posts attest to that. If rehabilitation -- not just mere interaction and dialogue -- is the approach mods are interested in seeking, I envision a lot more pointless, personal attacks.

It's one thing to say: "As offensive as his posts are, he's owed a chance to be heard." It's another to say: "I think we can broaden his understanding, despite the offensiveness of his posts."

ThreadBare said:

right. and i thought i did my best to include my thoughts on those people who know exactly what they're posting - which is to upset other people for their own amusement or for some kind of sick entertainment. there's really no argument from me where those folks are concerned - lock, hide, delete, ban, slice, dice, whatevs.

but i have seen a lot of people come on here and ask really vulnerable questions based on their own ignorance, and i've seen people give those threads a total "you're a big racist meanie!" smackdown. that's not right either. how else can we grow if we don't put our stuff out there, even if it's not always attractive or enlightened?

RipHer2Shreds said:

i had never seen that thread until you posted the link.

there were 0, ZERO, Zelch reports made to moderators and there were no posts in that thread by a moderator...yet numerous folks commenting how shocked they were that the thread was still open..

uhhh, HA HA HELLO???

sosgemini said:

Yes. Usually we get a reporting from an Orger as to an offensive post or thread. I can't believe that thread went unreported. It's up to all Orgers to help us when things like that are posted - we cannot be at all places at all times... Thanks for dropping that thread SOS, yes... it was offensive. I'da locked it and hid it too.

I think that that's it's hipocritical that the ones who complain about using the word are the exact same people who use it on a regular basis...

Jeez, it's just a word...If people have complaints about it, then that's all they should do...Don't change what people do because it may be considered offensive or morally wrong...I think that that's it's hipocritical that the ones who complain about using the word are the exact same people who use it on a regular basis...I cannot tell you how many times I've been walking and heard damn rap music utter the word every two seconds, or walk down the street and hear two black people calling each other that word...So I say, just shut up and deal with it, it's a word...

Disclaimer: This thread is has not been created to debate race relations. I just want to see what the general consensus from the site's community was. Please state Yay or Nay and if you'd like, a brief explanation why.
[Edited 6/30/06 15:52pm]

Oh...snaps.


This includes any variation of the word.

Thanks.

sosgemini said:

Yay, Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay, yay.

iceblueangel2007 said:

help me understand your statement,


1) are you annoyed by the nature of this discussion or

2) are you a banned or alias account user trying to get your digs at me personally?

sosgemini said:

Excuse me for interjecting, but I'm pretty sure that iceblueangel is answering your original request of "yay or nay" on banning the word. Iceblueangel is answering "yay x 7".

Members should be 'adult' enough to know when and when not to use a term or word in an appropriate manner.

I would never dream of using the "N" word - even in jest, Whenever I hear or read that word I have these visions of a psycho wearing a white hood and a shotgun in his hand. It is an awful word in every sense.

But people are free ( however you would be arrested here in UK for saying it in public !!) to say what they want.

it's up to ben.

though if my opinion is in any way useful, i say ABSOLUTELY NOT.

*NO* word should be banned from use.

the use of all words, however, should be monitored for CONTEXT and INTENT.

when the org starts banning words, the shark has SERIOUSLY been jumped.

You could search through all of these works and never find anything as worse as this one word. It was made for the purpose of making a race of people feel inferior-so you can call it what you want. I call it a shame. It's funny how threads get locked around here everyday for anything, but the one's with the N-word seem to last forever. Wonder what opinions the mods really have about it? Or do they really care? Lastly, how can it be justified that a site uses the name of an African-American who sings about these matters all the time in his music and yet this word is allowed to be used here daily. Really sad .

Question your motives? Yes. But your character never or maybe you're questioning yourself regarding the intent of this whole thread? Anyway, I've said my peace so my posting on this thread has come to an end. Maybe next time a thread with this topic will actually accomplish something.

Disclaimer: This thread is has not been created to debate race relations. I just want to see what the general consensus from the site's community was.

Please state Yay or Nay and if you'd like, a brief explanation why.


This includes any variation of the word.

Thanks.