sosgemini said:

i'm sorry. i do keep your sensibilities in mind when i compose my thoughts on here, i assure you.

Anx said:

You know what-I'll let you decide. If it was you would you want to be belittled and insulted racially, would you want someone that you loved to experience that feeling? If you say yes-you are so full of shit! If you say you don't care that's even worse . No matter who the recipient happens to be-it's racism either way you slice it.

nurse said:

Sorry, but I think that doesn't fully answer my question/concern.

1. Should the org censor Prince's work (songtitles, lyrics) and insist on cutting the N word out - yes or no?

2. Should it be allowed to recommend or praise any Prince work using the N word (like the Black Album), as it technically means nothing else than encouraging people to listen to insulting material?

StoneCrib said:

I agree 100 %.

nurse said:

it's not racism. it's ignorance. when someone calls me a "fag", that's not racism. technically, it's homophobia. but it's an ignorant person using a word that they think gives them power.

i don't let ignorance insult me or make me feel little. i'm sorry if that's what it does to you. and i know we've gone around and around on this thread, but if you think any one thing i've said is sincere, believe this: i am TRULY sorry if you let those words cause you pain. i'm not saying that from a condescending place.

when i was in high school, someone attacked me when he knew nobody was watching. he pinned me to the ground and brought his face really close to mine.

"you know you're a complete loser, right?" he said to me. "you'll always be a loser. you'll never be anything. just a loser."

then he slapped me in the face, got up and ran off.

it took me a long time to shake that incident off. but with time, wisdom and a lot of contemplation, i learned that he did that because HE was afraid of ME.

if you really have disdain for something, you avoid it. if you're afraid something has power over you, you fight back.

i'm not afraid of what anyone has to say about me. you can call me whatever you want, but you know what? you don't know me. what would your words mean to me?

but i know what it's like to be forcefed someone's hatred. it's easy to let emotion cover up the truth of the incident. and it's completely human to do so.

but i won't let the words of ignorant people disempower me. i won't allow it. it's a waste of my time.

EmancipationLover said:

Truthfully, I would have to say yes because of the society that we live in. Even though this site is dedicated to Prince-any usage of that word to make others think it's okay to use should be censored. It's not okay .

As far as recommemding his work to others that's a personal decision of the listener and what is offensive to them.

Anx said:

Oh Anx! This was nicely said, but must we go round 'n' round? The N-word is more than a racial slur. It is a combination of hatred and economical disenfranchisement for a race of people. Millions of people over time had no choice but to be "forcefed" this hatred . Unless you've ever been called this then you cannot possibly relate. The word is one of those nasty stains on human history that just will not go away. I'm not afraid of the word or it's intentions, actually I'm a stronger person because of it and yes you were trying to be condescending, but that's just your way and you never answered my question. Would you want yourself or someone you loved to experience this kind of racism not just homophobia?

this is site forum folks..not p&r.

nurse said:

Sorry, but I think prince.org can't be prince.org anymore then. Dedicate a website to someone who has produced such offensive work that we can't even post the full songtitles on here (not to talk about the segues on "Exodus")?

And do you really want posts like "I recommend that album with the title I'm not allowed to post here due to forum rules to you because it's really funky"?

In the end, the two alternatives for the mods are:

1. Snip any posts containing the N word regardless of context (after the forum rules have been changed accordingly and an announcement has been made).
2. Review every post containing the N word and decide if its use might be within the forum rules because it's part of a work of art (song, film) which we can't change anyway or because it serves explanatory purposes in a P&R thread or whatever.

What do you prefer? I go for number 2.

EmancipationLover said:

To be honest I think that the Mods need to leave this topic alone-it's a topic that goes far beyond the confinements of the ORG and it's a concept that certain people will never relate to because they choose not too.

nurse said:

So do you vote for 1 or 2?

No-one's actually typed the word yet, and we're 70+ posts in!

Can I be first?

fathermcmeekle said:

I typed it in the context of an album title (Goldnigga), so you're not first. I really thought about doing this as I somehow think it's slightly insensitive to type it out in a thread about its use, but of course you're free to make your own decisions.

fathermcmeekle said:

Prime example of insensitivity .
[Edited 7/1/06 15:53pm]

EmancipationLover said:

I pass on this vote-it's much deeper than just a vote .

EmancipationLover said:

Interesting that we are all tip-toeing around this word like we are afraid of it. It's only a word isn't it? Or is it like.....Candyman!?!?

nurse said:

Insensitivity is my main motivation around here.

But seriously, banning words is a bad move.

nurse said:

And there you have the conflict of theory and practice. If this was a P&R thread, you could easily say "it's too deep for a simple vote", but this is about mod decisions in the future. As far as I see the situation, I'd say the mods only have these 2 alternatives (otherwise please correct me). So, if you were a mod, how would you handle this issue?

nurse said:

i think you've said all you need to say for me to understand the way you arrive at your arguments, as i hope i have.

you've made the claim that i could never understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism. you've also maintained that it is a completely different experience to be on the receiving end of homophobia. i think both experiences are alike in that we are at the receiving end of ignorance. we disagree on that point, and so that's where our discussion has to end.

thanks for the discussion.

Anx said:

BYE-BYE

nurse said:

very "jerry springer" of you.

seriously, have a happy holiday weekend.

Anx said:

"Jerry, Jerry" I hate that show .

I posted a really long thought on this subject but the Org hiccuped and it was lost.

Basically, the Org has about five people who use this word in an offensive way, most of those people show up on every race topic here.

Banning the word? I don't know. Keeping a look out for these people that keep repeating their hateful behavior, yeah.

i agree with anx that it's the context and intent. and the whole slippery slope.
so no. banning a word is silly. banning users who use the word to belittle, intimidate, etc. is the thing to do.

It would be difficult to police the use of a word on such a site -- even among people who are (allegedly) black. I agree with Romera's point about mods keeping a tighter watch on behavior among certain posters.

The Org is, for many, an escape. It tends to play out that some white/non-black posters see it as an escape from the PC confines of everyday life. For blacks, some of us wish it to be an escape from the racist realities of everyday life.

I think each side (as if there are only two) should do more to understand the other's perspectives and be far less strident in our deliveries.

But that applies to more than just race-related discussions here, particularly in the P&R forum.

So, don't ban the word. Ban immaturity.

CarrieMpls said:

please dont use words like, "silly"...there are folks here who disagree with you and are passionate about that desbelief...can you imagine having your strong convictions called silly?

XxAxX said:

sosgemini said:

Banning a word is silly. Such a decision only serves to increase the power and conotation of the word in question and is not an ant's pube away from fascism. Don't make words more tempting for the nieve and ignorant to hijack. The more people who go around in comedy Hitler moustaches and SS uniforms the better. We have to mock what is abbhorent.

sosgemini said:

maybe we should ban the word "silly" too.

seriously, i think you're conflating the policy you've asked us to discuss with the larger issue of racism. a word is not an act. a word is not a behavior.

a word is a group of letters or a combination of sounds. it is how you USE the words that creates an act or provokes a certain kind of behavior.

i agree with carrie. i think it is silly to ban combinations of letters. i think it is the complete OPPOSITE of silly to abuse any combination of letters in order to hurt another person.

but then, maybe i have the same emotional response to censorship that other people on here have toward racism, so it's always going to be a head-clashy subject for me.

Anx said:

exactly....thats why i keep requesting that we respect the discussion and make an effort to not be insensitive to other's. one's own point of view can be made without critiquing others.

well, at least within this thread, which im trying to use as an aid for us mods. a tool to figue out what's going on and we can imrpove things.