Those that piss on new members for asking Prince questions that get tiresome should consider leaving and creating their own fan site for people who know everything about Prince; where you can piss on anyone for any reason you like.

This is Prince.org. People come here to discuss Prince and learn about Prince, not to exercise their ability to unravel the mysteries of varying personalities or to receive tips on self expression or to test their self confidence.

If it is that terribly bothersome that people ask questions about Prince and you simply do not have time or patience to deal with them in a respectful manner, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod at a website that caters to Prince fans and Prince information.

Appears very cut and dry to me.

i'm trying to post this response from a calm and somewhat mannered place, although i have food cookin' and i gotta get my butt prettied up for work here soon, and this thread has gone all over the map and i don't think there's any way to tie it up in a neat little bow, because the ability to make this site a useful resource center for fans is an ongoing process that is gonna involve a lot more conversations like this before we arrive at a tidy solution. SO.

i think we're working toward creating informative FAQs to answer a lot of the questions folks have that get asked over and over again. i don't think it's wrong to direct people to things like FAQs, and, with the addition of a link to an FAQ, i don't think it's wrong to lock such threads. maybe the manner in which mods do that needs to be explored. or maybe not. i'm not gonna weigh in on that. we all have our own styles of posting and moderating, and we're all learning and growing. to all us mods, i can only say we should be listening to our own consciences and sensibilities, and we should stand by what we do or be prepared to grow and improve. whatever THAT means to ANYone.

ALSO: i don't think it's wrong to bring other sites or URLs outside of the org to the table when we're pointing people in the direction of information they may be looking for. there's no reason for the org to sequester itself as a provincialized information and discussion forum. we're part of a broader network of sites, some official and some not, some regularly maintained and some not, but all of which share the same passion. i say to the newbies: explore HQ. explore NPGMC. explore whatever ya find on google. enjoy it. take stuff from those sites. contribute as you can. just have fun. don't let folks bring ya down. create what you want things to be like, and change will follow.

i hope some of that made sense. my rice is burning.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

So does this mean we can finally get some answers about the rib-removal thing?

Number23 said:

Yeah , the dude definitely needs a fucking
[Edited 4/20/05 13:31pm]

Neversin said:

please, within this forum, lets keep a certain level of civility. i commend all the mods who have participated in this discussion for allowing critical views to be heard. but making heated posts like this is going to be a surefire way of getting this thread locked up.....you ask who the hell this poster is? well, he/she is someone who wanted to express their views on the topic. and if we mods want to hear all perspectives (and not just the ones we agree with) then we need a forum that is inclusive to all.

in other words, address the topic and not the person. thanks!!



eeksclarificationedit..
[Edited 4/20/05 13:37pm]

sosgemini said:

I'm all in favor of this site being welcoming and informative to new people and casual prince fans searching for some information. But I don't think we need to hold people's hands like they're little kids.

Someone coming to this site should take the initiative to look around first, there's a TON of information about Prince here. And then, if they can't find an answer to their question, start a thread. It's not like they're walking up to a customer service desk at a department store, they're joining in on an ongoing discussion about Prince, and need to be considerate of that.

I got a laugh out of Dansa's pics, mainly because they seemed lighthearted and funny in the midst of some heated comments on here. I didn't realize some people were taking offense to them.

sosgemini said:

Oh really now?

milkandhoney said:

Nice view on the topic... I see it more as an attack to "Those that piss on new members"...

sosgemini said:

Tell that to that n00b that said this:

milkandhoney said:

Neversin.

Tom said:

Obviously those people that take offense to them know it's true...

I'm not saying everyone on this should ignore new members (I do however, fuck 'em) but pity them because they're too stupid is just insane...
Ok, it's not cool to lock threads without explanation (makes a n00b even more stupid and confused) but how about an (up to date) FAQ?
Or why not refer them to other sites? Or easier yet: how about LINKS TO OTHER WEBSITES on this site? Or a forum for n00bs with a sticky with FAQ's AND Links where they have to post at least 25 messages (useful ones mind you...) before entering the general forum area of the site?

Neversin.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I think being a mod esp in the P&more forum is a TASK. Most of us "oldies" who have moved on safely to the GD rarely ever go back to that forum. It's CRAZY and it's the same questions over and over and the same answers over and over. See, I can ignore it as I don't have to mod that forum. Not to mention some of the oldies go in that forum and Stir it up like Patti Labelle and just start stuff. I see very few oldies hang out and help out. The ones I used to know, got tired of it and have left (I haven't seen NouveauDance in a LOOOONG time).

Dansa get a lot of unnecessa booshit for moding that Forum because she is one of the sterner ones and occasionally gets annoyed. It's a very hard forum to Mod. I rarely se the other Mods hang out there much (a few do...but not as much as Dansa).

Ideas I like..

Newbie Q&A forum. No flaming...just questions. ANd any that get repeated often...get put into a Sticky or Newbie FAQ. You could even recruit some "oldies" to help out. Some like being the Prince Guru...but probably don't want to have to wade through all the crap on P Music and More.

That serach feature and a better FAQ...for all of the sites that are out there, there is no real FAQ out there anywhere. I think this FAQ should have a Discography and a Lyrics page. Yes it would take work...but it would also add value to the site that exists nowhere else. And not make Dansa so crazy.

Just my 2 cents. I think this is a wonderful site with great people (mostly). And to those that think it's cliquey and an inner circle..screw em! It's not not not. If you wanna make friends you have to reach out and be a willing participant on this site. If you sit back and say very little noone will get to know you. And vice versa. Sure it can be a little daunting as these folks have threads, jokes and a history on and offline amongst themselves...and you may or may not know what they are referencing. I say JACK THAT THREAD ...you will get to know folks instantly.

sinisterpentatonic said:

Orgnote me.

Anxiety said:

Jesus, you are sooo lame.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

thankyaverrmuch. i'm here all week - make sure to try the lasagna!

Anxiety - Appreciate the time and attention you constructed into your post. Redirecting new members to FAQ, search and alternate URLs is all well and good, but I don't have faith in it happening without attitude or syrupy sarcasm attached.

Neversin - I'd reply with my own abilities to trash talk but well, I'm not that common. I can recommend a nice charm school that can help you with your inability to interact civilly with humans. Someone give this person a much-needed hug and big, fat smooch, ASAP!
_____

I don't have a personal problem with any of you or this site. I get bored at work and lurk about. Mostly, I get fits of giggles from many members here. Your antics can be quite entertaining. However, I am witness to ego trips and when I found this thread I thought Enigmoid, and others that have complained, have valid points and appear to buckle under the pressure of bullying from the loud, booming voices of Oz behind the curtain. (I apologize for not using proper lingo, "n00b," as it seems quite retarded to spell a word incorrectly for the pure hell of it. That or else some Star Trek fan thought it up).

There's all this talk of how hard it is to moderate these forums, but I frequent other sites that seem to handle everything just fine. If it's that daunting a task, then some reconsiderations should be pondered. More mods for a difficult section? Mods with more experience or adequate knowledge of running a forum? Hell, I don't know and to be honest, I don't care. What I did care to acknowledge was the fact that people are turning away from here, insulted, because some choice "oldies" can't seem to check their egos at the door and have swelled heads simply because they are "oldies" and can hide behind the heavy curtain of anonymity.

If only everything in life was as easy as, "oh I'm just tired of dealing with it, so I'll toss out some random, thoughtless comments that amuse me and my friends and simply be done with it." Boy, would life be easier on me.

Now take my words and construe them however you see fit. I have faith that you will.

milkandhoney said:

such as life, not every place you frequent has the same exact clientele.

already happening.

i want to clarify something real quick here because that last post leaves the impression that ben might be giving the okay for moderators to conduct themselves in any matter which they choose and thats not correct.

ben has trusted certain people with moderating certain forums. he has never given specific instructions on how moderators should conduct themselves. i just wanna lay that out there.

now, i visit rottentomatoes.com, imdb.com, imusic.com, live365 and a few other forums....rottentomatoes was a non-profit forum originally (run by a bunch of cool people from the bay area) just like this one and i have never seen moderation tasks managed the way that the prince:music forum is moderated.

now, is that saying that their site is wrong and this one is right or vice versa? no...but i dont see this whole, "the internet is one full of negativity and thats just the nature of the beast and you need to grow up and deal with it" sentiment that dansa and anxiety have (in regards to moderation). i just havent. and i havent seen it on this site either (in regards to moderation). and ive been visiting and contributing to this website just like dansa and anxiety from the very beginning too..

now, you have a lot of people who more people voicing concern then about the moderation of prince:music and more then who are content with the statues quo.i personally find that telling.

or maybe ben needs to step in and give us mods some guidance.

anxiety, i know you are very passionate about allowing people the freedom to express themselves but i just dont see that that applies to us mods, i just dont. unless like teacher recommended you have a seperate log-in to conduct your business. i do think its telling that all the sites ive mentioned above have non-user specific log-ins for moderation/administration activity. it removes the personality clashes. but regardless of that i do hope that we mods are actually listening to the visitors of this site to find out how they want things. i hope we arent just sticking our face in the muds and ignoring what our fellow community members want....

and please, before you say im bitching more keep in mind the fact that the idear that everyone seems to like (the newbie forum) was a recommendation from me.


night y'all!!



lilclarificatonedit...
[Edited 4/20/05 22:41pm]

Considering the search isn't working, and the FAQ update is in progress, I think we need to be more understanding to some extent, of a new visitor coming to this site trying to find something. There's alot of information on Prince here, but it's hard to find what your looking for in some cases.

Maybe, instead of a FAQ there should be a Wiki, that everyone can add to. We could all contribute in building a big collection of Prince trivia, that new visitors can read through.

In response to Milkandhoney's comment about the difficulty of org moderation; It's not really "difficult", but it can be time consuming and cumbersome. The org has been glitchy for several months now, and consequently even simple editing can take alot longer sometimes. You can easily drop like 20 min or more on a thread trying to edit out someone's flame, then the 10 times other people quoted it when replying, then the site freezes for several minutes in between reloading the page, etc...

In general, on any bulletin board/forum, its considered bad "netiquette" to simply start a thread without first looking for the answer to your question in a FAQ, Sticky, or one of the thousands of already active threads.
[Edited 4/21/05 3:52am]

Tom said:

Ugh, slow running websites are a bitch. I can see how one could get grumpy dealing with that.

In regard to netiquette, I haven't found a lot of people that respect it or take the time to know it and understand it to begin with.

I'm sure we'll all muddle through.

milkandhoney said:

The stupidity...
You probably haven't been able to put 1 and 1 together eh? Or still haven't read what the actual complaint regarding new members was of the mod you rambled on about...
How do you think this site became as slow as it is?

Neversin.

oh my stars...i just was checking out the gd forum and i could never imagine moderating that forum..i too would end up giving people hell..

maybe we should do a rotating roster of mods for the prince: music/more section. ya know like have two of the current mods concentrate (like say for three months have anxiety and luv4u do it and then the next three months tom and dansa)..i could totally see how being forced to read every single thread could be frustrating...


if i had to mod the gd..... ughh!!! hell na!! (and i used to love posting in the gd many moons ago.)

well, we could always just ask ben to shut down the GD forum again.

Anxiety said:

was that your humor again? its soo hard to tell these days..

sosgemini said:

yeah, well, sorry about that. no, i was being serious. ben did it before, so it's completely within the realm of possibility to advocate for doing it again, if it seems to be too much of a drain on the rest of the site. just sayin' is all.

Anxiety said:

why is it a drain? are you talking about bandwidth or something?


the only reason i mentioned the gd because its not a forum that i enjoy anymore and if i were to moderate it im sure i would get snippy with people there all the time.....but, the solution is that is for me *not* to hang out in the gd..

thats why i recommended having rotating mods for the prince: music more...cause if the problem is frustration, that might help eleviate the issue of newbies feeling dissed....

(im trying to come up with solutions like you've repeatedly recommended...cha know?)

sosgemini said:

so did i...occasionally i pop up on there if i see a thread that interests me, but otherwise i stay waaaaay away from there. smells like the inside of a 10-cent viewing booth there nowadays.

sosgemini said:

and you're doing a fantastic job of knocking around ideas. and no, for the kabobbibillionth time, i'm not being sarcastic.

i'm just saying that if we didn't have a GD, we'd have one less forum to worry about moderating, and we'd be able to focus on the more relevant forums of this site, which is intended to be a fan site devoted to a particular artist. also, without the GD, there'd be less opportunity for people to post threads of a personal nature, and discussion would be more germaine to music and prince-related topics, which would give us more time to properly serve as resource specialists for those who are new users or casual users. i mean, as you've said repeatedly and as others have echoed, moderators do have certain obligations and responsibilities, and we don't need to be wasting our time with non-prince related stuff when we could be helping visitors to the site. and, ya know, it's not like we're exactly getting paid to do this, either.

so, i don't know. maybe i'm seeing your point. but maybe my interpretation is that we should cut some of the fat from the site and streamline it so it's more of a utility for the fan community, and not so much a place to 'hang out' and chit chat about things that aren't related to prince's work and career.

but you gotta remember the reason why ben added on the gd forum: all the prince threads would get jacked with off-topic shit. getting rid of the gd forum would streamline the place, but then it'd create even more chaos with handling the site.

personally, i don't think we need to change a damn thing.

i don't have any problems with moderating this site, other than i kinda wish we had more of an ongoing dialog with the person who owns and ostensibly maintains this site...but i can't criticize ben for being busy with his family and career, so i just deal with making the best with things the way they are.

as for dealing with people and people dealing with me, it gets bumpy but the drama passes. maybe i shoulda held true to my statement a few dozen posts up, and shut my damn trap. maybe this isn't a conversation to which i need to contribute, seeing as how i'm only spewing hypotheticals that have nothing to do with actual changes i really truly think need to be made.

so anyway, yeah. i don't think we need to change a damn thing. and if my personality isn't appropriate behavior for a mod, then i need to know so i can turn in my badge and blend in with the common people, cuz i don't see what i do now as making me any different than anyone else who uses this site, aside from the fact that i've taken on some responsibilities that i think i'm performing quite well.

so, uh....so there.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I can SO see that happening...AB777 would HAVE to be banned.