Handclapsfingasnapz said:

once again, ben, matt, kevin and ian never did that.....you are the only mod that does..or ever has.

the only time ian got in trouble was when he took things personal. and i think you take it personal too. you dont like dealing with newbies. (just kidding )

Anxiety said:

im talking about the irony in regards to respect. not hotlinks you smartass...

btw: i think ive said all i need to on this subject....

thanks enigmoid for voicing your concerns..

thanks anxiety and dansa for hearing my concerns.....like i said, i respect however you choose to handle your business...im out (unless you have further questions for me)..

sosgemini said:

that's entirely on them, not me. if one doesn't wanna take the time out to understand how i say/do things and think things through, fine. i'm not asking people to stay put here. folks have every right in the world to choose where they wanna spend their time, online and off. they have a right to pay attention to those they dig. they also have a right to piss right off if they don't like or care for what someone thinks or does. we're not in competition with anybody. we're not a money-making establishment; the closest thing to monetary value here is interaction. words on a screen.

sosgemini said:

heavens no. perish the thought.

i'm just saying, either make the change happen or deal with the reality.

i'm tired of all this kvetching about an environment that's always going to be inherently bitchy. it's the freakin' internet. the WORLD WIDE web. it's made up of folks from all over the globe, with all its etiquettes and world views and lacks thereof. it's not always gonna be donna reed, lemonade and angel food cake!

i spent most of my adult life in new york city. the way people carry on at this web site is small change compared to a day in midtown. and ya know what? living there and dealing with people day after day, you learn not to take it personally. you're dealing with people from all over the place, who learned to deal with people in SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, that you just have to get through your day as best you can. and you tolerate certain shit, and you learn when to stand your ground on other shit. someone like dansa might be brash or not completely hospitable by conventional standards, but she's HONEST. she's up front. it's not personal, she's just sayin' what's there to be said.

and she's only one person out of the kajillions of people who use this WWW bullshit.

and if you, as one other person on the web, want to be the patron saint of newbies, then go right ahead. maybe you can make a difference. but i think you should be working more toward positive change than wasting time bitching about the people who are peeving you. you're just adding to the negativity you seem to disapprove of.
[Edited 4/19/05 19:20pm]

Anxiety said:

eek..its not bitching when your trying to get someone to see there is a problem. and i dont have a problem with someone being blunt. but there is a difference between being blunt and being rude....and you have to agree with that.

the problem i see is that all the mods who have ever worked on this site have maintained a certain level of civility when conducting themselves...i dont have a problem with rudeness when your just posting something. but i do have a problem with someone being rude and then locking a thread up. those are two seperate things.

now, like i said previously you won me over to the arguement that mods have the right to be rude to newbies. but i have the right to try and persuade dansa to understand my perspective.

i dont appreciate you saying im bitching when im addressing things constructivly and have even conceeded ive lost the arguement and ended the discussion. thats not cool.


(let me clarify the civility part..civility when it comes to specific tasks like locking threads, moving threads and snipping comments. sure civility has been lost by many o mod when issues have become to personal for them to respond in a reasonable fashion...heck, ill conceed ive blown my lid a few times and made irrational decisions or statements. )
[Edited 4/19/05 19:26pm]

i'm sorry i touched a nerve or crossed a line.

i'll borrow a page from your book - i've pretty much said everything i can say on this subject already, so i'm gonna shut up while my head's still out of the noose.

if you or anyone else wants to continue a discussion on this topic with me for whatever reason, orgnote my ass.

peace and kitten burps,
anx the impaler

if one feels that they're being pissed on here, there's plenty of other places online they can go. if it gets to the point where they feel that they can't go anywhere for info or whatever (and trust me, all fansites have their dark sides--there is no "safe haven"), they'd be better off simply logging off and paying more attention to their offline duties or to somethin more constructive to wile away their time. contrary to popular opinion, being poked at on some friggin fansite for being new or for asking an oft-asked question is not the end of the world. there's worse things happening in the world than what's going on here. take that shit into perspective.

never forget: you are on

while you're here.

sosgemini said:

Sos. Here's my issue. If you can't stop the trolls (ewm) then why would you even be concerned with the feelings of a newbie when there's no reprimand for the trolls who are going to continue to be resident assholes as long as they are allowed?

As for my thoughts on Enigmoid's rant:

Personally, I think that a lot of the backlash against the NPGMC for being pro-censorship and whatnot is coming back to bite the org in the ass. Because this place is so supposedly free-speech oriented, now it's become a full-time job for someone to come along and clean up the mediocre ass threads that get started. I'm not trying to start a this Prince site vs. that Prince site but out of the NPGMC, Housequake and the org, the org is the only place where you'll find 12 threads about "3121" on the first page, the ever so tired "Is Prince black?" thread, and the "So Prince smokes a joint and..." threads.

Though I don't post there as frequently, I think Dansa and Anxiety are doing a great job of attempting to keep the Prince Music and More forum straight.

There's two things you never wanna let people see you make: sausages and laws!

I appreciate your post Haystack.

2the9s said:

i never want to see you make babies!





okay, now i'm done on this thread.

Anxiety said:

~~2the9s ponders a new thread in GD~~

2the9s said:

(ok, this is my last post in this thread, i freakin promise)
[Edited 4/19/05 20:30pm]

It's interesting to read this thread with all these comments from the mods. I had tended to think that you were all a lot more in lockstep.

Since this is an open thread, are you willing to take comments from others?

I mean I know others have already posted. I'm just asking. This seems a lot more like it's among you, which is a different thing than opening the floor etc.

Anyway...

psykosoul said:

okay...ill respond cause this guy on american idol is just horrid....


my specific concern is that when a moderator conducts official org actions and conducts themselves in a fashion that can be percieved as meanspirited towards new visitors of this site it might effect the traffic or the perception of the site. as a business owner i have always advocated that prince.org is a business (sure a non-profit business entity but a business none the less) and that those who represent the org should conduct themselves accordingly.

now, i dont moderate the prince:music & more forum...when i post there im just a regular visitor. but i can see how a newbie could get the message when a moderator of that forum posts a "oh lord" banner and locks their thread that their views arent appreciated. i fully understand that the net has an overall meanspirited tone. however, that doesnt mean that we have to follow suit. and im not even going to object to a moderator being blunt (as anxiety calls it) or rude (as i call it) within a thread they *arent* moderating. my main objection is blunt/rudeness when conducting official activity on behalf of prince.org. because not only does it affect the mod/visitor relationship for that moderator but it affects the relationships of everyone towards *all* the moderators of this site.

and how can other orgers defend the newbies (like anxiety recommends) against a moderator? there could be fear of retaliation or account deactivation....thats why i dont think its a fair playing feel....thats why i think mods should stay clear of such activities.....and like i said previously, it just sets a bad precedent...

for the regular ole hag orgers who like to clock newbies? by all means i dont want to create rules that would prohibit newbies from being attacked...im just trying to encourage some patience and reason from the seasoned people.


(and for the record, overall i think *all* the mods do an excellent job...we really are just nitpicking on a very lil issue.)



eeksegadsedit!!
[Edited 4/19/05 20:44pm]

okay, one last thought for real:





THE ORG IS NOT A BUSINESS.

THE ORG IS A COMMUNITY.




...with all that a community implies.

Anxiety said:

Ummm..Anxiety?...

Anxiety said:

agree...however, im just saying how i percieve how representatives of the org should conduct themselves...thats all...and by all means im not forcing how i percieve the mods should conduct themselves...i guess i should have qualified that statement by saying that is how *i* consider things when i represent the org....and i happen to think that if other mods *did* conduct themselves in that matter that there would be less personality clashes between mods and orgers....like the ones we have been seeing pop up where orgers start lashing out at dansa.....
[Edited 4/19/05 20:54pm]

2the9s said:

no no..speak up.....

sosgemini said:

Well now I'm shy and have to go to bed...

2the9s said:

you're here. speak your piece or forever keep it chut.

Ultimately it comes down to this:

You're the mods. You set the tone.

When Ben brought you in, he trusted that you could effectively represent the directions that the Org wanted to go in as far as the site itself, and the will of the people who come here.

With that, you've made your bed, and it sounds like a couple of you are more than happy to lie in it. Well, alright for you.

But what you're missing is that the PRINCE part of the site is very shallow now. From the PML to the PPML to the TogDog site to Prince.org v1 and the beginning of v2, this place was THE place to go when looking for a solid Prince resource. Obviously, that's not that important of a goal anymore.

Anxiety: I looked back at my old thread and noticed that you asked me what I felt the Org owes me. I'm sorry I overlooked that as it got mixed in with some other posts. The answer is that the Org owes me nothing.

The strange part is that I don't understand why you feel you need to ask that question. The name of this forum is "site discussion" and it's a place that Ben and Matt setup so that we can let our ideas/feelings be known about the site. What the site owes or does not owe me has nothing to do with why I choose to post in this forum.

I have sentimental feelings the Org. That's what drives my coming to the site and putting up with dozens of posts in threads that are rather distracting to interesting original topics. But I can only call 'em as I see 'em. If you think that's some mal-intended slam on you as a person, that's your perogative. I imagine you can always say "fuck 'em" or "well, go start your own site." *shrug*

I'm merely pointing out that this site has changed thanks to how moderators have chosen to let the site evolve. If you're happy with that and can live with where the Org is now, then goodie for you, eh?

Dauphin said:

it ain't solely our duty. what we do is keep ya'll from rippin each other's heads off and things of that nature. the things brought to this community all boil down to those who take part in it, not just us mods.

Yeah , i completely agree !!
That's why i started this thread yesterday (which eventually got locked)

http://www.prince.org/msg/7/141968
[Edited 4/19/05 21:08pm]

the older this site gets, and the more ground that is covered on this site - over and over and over again - the more shallow the 'prince' part of this site will continue to become to some of us, and the more involved the 'community' part of this site will become to some of us.

have you ever noticed a trend when prince releases a new album or goes on tour? it seems like when he's interviewing a lot and on tv a lot and doing lots of concerts and videos and such, we tend to talk about prince a lot more. why? because we have something new to talk about.

conversely: when he's taking a rest or off recording something new or just keeping out of the public eye for a bit, we get all worked up and restless.

interestingly enough, i'm reading a book on rats right now, and i thought of the org when it was mentioned that rats tend to feed on each other when there is a lack of food in their environment. anyway.

it all seems simple to me. doesn't seem like any great shakes. we weren't having these discussions a year ago this month because we had more interesting things to talk about. and so it goes.

and as for people bagging on dansa for the way she moderates...THAT is part of belonging to a community. people ABSOLUTELY SHOULD speak their minds about how they are treated. it doesn't mean dansa's doing a bad job. but we mods have an accountability to the folks who use this site in that we should be able to stand by everything we do. it doesn't mean we have to carry ourselves with any kind of formality or unusual behavior or protocol. but if we're screwing up left and right, it's the job of the users to speak up, whether newbies or oldies. how else are we gonna learn or improve? and if one of us just can't improve and we're dragging the site down, then that has to be addressed too.

believe it or not, i think everything on this site is pretty much operating as it should. if someone has an idea for a more dynamic forum in which discussing prince can be something that is eternally revelatory and insightful and constantly rich 24/7, i'm all for it. let's have some ideas.

Anxiety said:

but isnt that what people are doing by complaining about the treatement of newbies? and the recommendation seems to be uniformed that dansa needs to tone it down.... ---->>>clarification..that last sentence was a joke...<<----




nice post btw.
[Edited 4/19/05 21:22pm]

sosgemini said:

joke or no, it ain't happenin, chief.

sosgemini said:

if dansa needs to tone it down, then i suggest we draft a set of new rules of conduct with very specific rules and punishments, and that we even consider non-profanity rules and deleting posts and banning users who are overly critical or negative toward prince. after all, he's not only why we're all here, but he's a human being too.

and i'm not being one bit sarcastic about this suggestion.

Anxiety said:

i can hear the whaaaaa-mbulance startin up already...

Anxiety said:

obviously we should *not* limit speech on this site in regards to site visitors..but i agree, that might be a good idear for the mods....