Right, we've finally established a sticky thread where new people can look to see if their questions have already been answered. But even so...

This place has become so unwelcoming to new people. The impression that I'm curently getting from this place is that it consists merely of a clique of oldies who just want to remain the only ones in 'the circle'.

The most annoying thing is this dull, overworked joke of posting a pic of Prince in some shocked, surprised or disgusted pose and dubbing on some words that basically put down the person who's dared to start a thread asking a question of their hero. Even worse is that a number of supposedly respected members of this site are the worst offenders of this frankly never-funny-in-the-first-place joke. If we're going to put down new people, can we at least do it in an original and freshly witty way? Nope? Thought not.

I purposely decided to take less interest in this site because I felt that it was taking up too much of my time. Now I look at it and thank God that I'm not that into it anymore because it's become the embarrassment that it has been accused of from other parties for some time now. I never thought I'd ever say that about what used to be my beloved Org.

If anybody I knew suddenly took an interest in Prince, I'd tell them to keep away from this place because all it seems to do these days is take the piss out of those who haven't lived, breathed and shat Prince for the past 20 years.

There's a big difference in having fun and putting people down. Sadly, the Org is getting to the point where putting people down is taking a higher priority than having fun.

We've all been new to Prince at some point in our lives. Back in 1994, even after 9 years of fandom, I was at a record fair and asked the guy who was manning the Madhouse stall about Glam Slam Ulysses and if it was real and if any recordings existed of it. He must have been asked about it many times, and yet he was so enthusiastic and informed me that the only recordings were crap with regards to sound quality. He wasn't condascending nor patronising and spoke to me like I was a great friend, simply because I was a Prince fan.

Before the internet, you were ecstatic to meet a new Prince fan and discuss various issues, regardless of whether or not you agreed/disagreed with each other. You met fans as people first and opinions after. Sadly, the internet has spoilt us and we've created an army of fans that see the 'newbie' first and the person after.

Yeah, the new people may ask questions that we see as 'dumb', but it would be nice if we could all be polite, non patronising (this seems impossible around here) and helpful (a large number of peeps around here may need to look this word up) when mentioning to them that their questions have already been answered elsewhere, rather than just taking the piss and making new people look like idiots and feel totally unwelcome.

Posting on the Org is becoming less and less attractive. There is no excuse for rudeness, patronising attitudes and plain piss-taking.
Just a reminder for the hard of remembering: talk to people on an internet forum as you would if you spoke to them face to face.

Ben would turn in his grave... Wait, he's not dead.

Do you feel better now that you got that off your chest???
[Edited 4/19/05 17:26pm]

luv4u said:

i have to agree with him though.....ive voiced my frustration about this many times when i see these things occur.....

i love the idear of updating the Q/A but i still dont like how the older orgers here treat the newbies..

and i say this understanding that the internet is full or rude arse people and blah blah blah people should grow thick skins and get over it but.....

ive never bought that bullshit. ill respect the mods who choose to walk that line....but i a have the right to voice my opposition when other orgers choose to follow suit.

sosgemini said:

I hear ya. I for one will help out a newbie and try to make the feel welcome and comfortable and that if they have a problem to contact the Mods.

maybe we should start a netiquette forum, or have an "orger of the week" for people who are particularly nice? perhaps we could start a blue-star system where those who are particularly helpful or who have done "X" amount of good deeds get special little icons next to their names whenever they post.

and no, i'm not being smart-alecky. i think we should have a kinder, gentler org that caters more to the newbies.

actually, when i maintain the news section, my focus is on attracting casual visitors to the site...in terms of how i organize the information that appears on our updates page, i've been catering to the newbies for the past year or so. i think whoever handled the news items before me was just as conscientious.

i guess we just have to completely reconsider how we operate as an online community, so we can be more accommodating and less complacent in our familiarity with each other. it's easy to get so selfishly caught up in our existing relationships on here that we completely forget our responsibilities toward people who don't have as much history on here as others. that's just thoughtless of us. we should spend more time considering our duties toward others and quit selfishly enjoying this site so much.

great thread!
[Edited 4/19/05 18:28pm]

Wow, 'Stack. I hate you feel that way cuz I missed you here.

i think we should start an ORG SCOUTS clique on here that looks out for the newbies and protects them from mean orgers. it would be like those guardian angel people with the red berets.

now, i don't want to be a member. i just think we should start something like that, so folks can "do the work" beyond just complaining and criticizing about what a rotten mean place this is and how nobody's looking after the tender lambs and kittens and orglings and stuff.
[Edited 4/19/05 18:32pm]

Anxiety said:

haha funny funny....interesting that your knocking on the sentiment yet how else are we supposed to address an issue that obviously is of concern to some?

and no, the org hasnt always been like this....sure youve had your trolls (ewm) who would tell you your views were stupid. but now we have people slamming others for posing a simple question. if ben, matt and kevin addressed the org like that at the creation of the org do you think it would have grown to its current popularity?

fuck 'em.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

why? why should being rude be justified? should we follow this attitude through until there are only four people posting?

or should there be a big hyperlink to Housequake.com (Go here to be respected)?

is that our goal...i find it intersting that we are forced to respect housequake enough that we have to reference them when we post a picture from there yet we cant respect our own new visitors enough to understand that they arent going to know every single detail about prince when they first start getting to know them....

Enigmoid said:

i do that. and still i say: fuck 'em.

sosgemini said:

why should you care about how many people frequent here in the first place? i certainly don't. i'm not here or on any other forum for the number of people, nor am i here or any other forum to play nicey-nicey towards people simply because they're new. half the time people get one's reactions misconstrued as it is, which leads 'em to either having a bad taste in their mouth or leaving the site totally. that's on them, not those of us who are kidding around (believe me, 90% of the cats here kid around on a daily basis) or who know that people are kiddin around.

as has been said before, there are forums that are FAR WORSE than here. absolutely merciless compared to here.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

so maybe you need an official signature that declares that your views are not supported by anyone else and that newbies who arent familiar with your personality shouldnt be offended and that your just being you and that somebody with a lil more tact will come along and respond in a more friendly manor if they choose...sorta like luv4u who has so graciously offered to assist the newbies out with questions...

i vote for that . and i dont mean to be harsh but people are going to follow the examples that are set by someone who has an official "senior moderator" monicure.....that could explain why these occurances have increased over the past few months....

or better yet, how about we create a "newbie" forum so that newbies have a time to incubate and get ready to deal with people who think its justifiable to be asses (on the net and in person).

sosgemini said:

already done. check the banner in my profile. speakin of which, i'm workin on a newer banner at the moment...this thread's broken my concentration on it.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

why? because i consider ben a friend....and because i have my own site and i know how much money goes into maintaining it...and i personally would not want to see viewership drop.....

ben put the google think in in hopes of recouping some costs.....the less people hitting this site means the less monies he recoups...

sosgemini said:

funny thing is, i'm only half-joking.

if you guys wanna make it a warm fuzzy place for newbies - if it's that much of a concern - then do something about it. create avatars that identify you as someone committed to making the org a 'safe place' for newbies, and who will advocate against trolling, flaming, smart remarks, etc.

as a moderator, maybe you could serve as the head of this effort. think of it as the online equivalent to those nice boys who volunteer to walk female college students home from the library at night so they don't get attacked by mashers.

i might be posting this in a facetious tone, but i'm serious as a heart attack about the idea. you know how to deal with trolls and flamers and the like. there are others on here who are equally as adept. so use what you know to help folks who aren't as experienced. quit complaining about those who are doing something wrong, and start visualizing what's right.

personally, i have no issue with newbies, nor do i have any especial desire to alienate anyone who's new to the site. without newbies, we don't have oldies. everyone was a newbie sometime.

but here's the thing - i was a newbie once too. i hadda deal with people being smart-asses to me and flaming me and trolling me, and through it all i figured out how to handle myself, and i found my way to the folks i could trust and really relate to. and when it got too obnoxious...i just logged off.

i don't mean to suggest that some folks are getting a titch hypersensitive around these parts, but...well...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

no, i never...ever ever check inside profiles..so why would a newbie look in there? they are new.....

sosgemini said:

actually ben got rid of the google banners a while back, so that's a non-issue. no matter, the traffic on this site wouldn't really hiccup because there's new people here almost daily.

sosgemini said:

they'd better.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

yeah, so your the ass but ownership is on everyone else but you?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

so, once again justification to be an ass because "other people come along all the time"...

i just dont buy it...im sorry. look, i dont have any authority over what you do beyond the power of persuation...and for the life of me i dont see how you can justify being rude and curt with people...expecially as a mod. it just sets a bad example...

can you not see that?

sosgemini said:

nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. 'sides, the majority of the people here are grown. we ain't dealing with teenagers or small children--if we were i'd see your point. but i'm hoping that any new passers-through have at least half a backbone before they set foot on a message forum. clashings of personalities are guaranteed and people should know that from the get-go.

Anxiety said:

im sorry...i see the issue as dansa set an example of rudeness that others thought was justification for them to pick up on it and run with it..once again, this is recent phenom.....yes, through out the years people have been rude (ewm anyone? ) but not as rude to the newbies as has been recently...

now, yes dansa has the right to respond the way she does....and yes the other orgers have the right to follow suit....but i have the right to note what i have observed...

no i dont want to mod prince: music & more....i just want to share my view of things..which i have done..(hey if i gotta watch people be bitches to others all the time then they should be able to take a lil bit of it back)....

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

all just further justification for your lack of tact.....ben trusts you with helping manage this site....not adding to peoples ill thoughts of it. think about that. think of how many people complain when you make your comments..think of the fact that somebody was soo annoyed by it they created a thread on the subject.

how can you be dismissive of that sentiment?

re: housequake.com

i think HQ is a brilliant site for video and pics. i think that's the site's niche, and if they have something up in their video forum that i think people would dig, then yeah - i'll direct them to HQ. the site is part of the online fan community. why would i want to pretend we're independent of HQ or NPGMC or any other site that we all check out from time to time, more or less?

i ENCOURAGE folks on the org to check out housequake.com. i encourage folks to check out NPGMC. i encourage people to mix and match and get the best out of all the sites out there. it's not about competition or territorialism or any of that crap. it's about enjoying the amazingly vast body of work inspired and/or created by an artist that we all enjoy. i think each of the well-known prince sites out there excel in a different way. each has something specific to offer. in my opinion, to miss out on any part of the experience is to do oneself a disservice as a fan.

sosgemini said:

s'never been a recent thing. it's always been that way around here, me never spearheading anything.

sosgemini said:

so are you more interested in protecting the new orgers who are being treated poorly by the old orgers, or are you simply interested in taking the piss out of mean old orgers? because one of those options sounds kinda productive, and the other sounds kinda boring and self-righteous.

Anxiety said:

yeah, i agree...the only reaso i bring up housequake is because dansa asked that we respect housequake and its people by referencing them when we post their pics...yet we cant respect newbies enough (as reps of this site) to treat them with respect?

am i the only one that sees the irony in that?

Anxiety said:

are u calling me boring and self-righteous?

hey, im all game for an equal playing field..but the minute people speak up and set the record straight threads get locked up or hidden....thats not a fair playing field..is it?

sosgemini said:

oh, i get ya.

so what have people been hotlinking from the newbies?