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PrintableIt has been said by wise men that the last person to know how others perceive them is the person themselves. You seem a little shocked by all this Melissa.
Anyway, there is nothing I can say that hasn't brilliantly been said by Shausler, Lleena and Azurestar. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Also, I dont believe that the show of support in this thread and others for 2the9s could possibly be counter-productive to having him back here. If that were indeed so, that would show a shallowness of thought by the "decision makers" that would stagger me. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Quaidbowl, Matt/tackam's relationship...I'm sorry this thread has yet again gone way off topic. And I would ask that people respect the wishes of the thread starter here in keeping it respectful and constructive. I resent being referred to as needing "babysitters," since those people either supporting 2the9s or curious as to what happened have for the most part been extremely constructive, patient, and thoughtful. Also, lest we forget, the thread that led to 2the9s deactivation is this one:
http://www.prince.org/msg/105/120959 Thankyou ... [Edited 12/5/04 11:08am] | |
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tackam said: AzureStarr said: Tackam... you obviously have a right to your opinion, but, I'm a little shocked at your seemingly rude tone (if one can have one in text) through this whole thing. Sorry, but it appears that it's become your opinion because of your relationship with Matt. Or, at the very least, your harshness in displaying your opinion because of your relationship with the mod that banned 9s.
I mean... I caught the tail end of the controversy surrounding your relationship with Matt. I only caught the letters to the orgers that you two posted on a thread and while no one was banned, it would seem that you would understand the emotions that can infest people in an online community - whether that's being banned or having to do with ones choice of relationships. If I remember correctly, there were posts to your aid in that thread, posts that were in your and Matt's favor. You and Matt felt the need to post about your relationship publicly and also felt the need to post further about it and how it was received (again, only skimmed, because it wasn't that important to me, so I'm not fully aware of all that went on or what was said... to me, that was your business). But, you felt strongly enough that you created a thread about it. It's really not any different than people showing their support here. You didn't feel that your speaking out was silliness. Just as people here don't feel that their expressions within this thread are silly. I don't know. To each their own, but you've come off with a more than slightly sanctimonious attitude about the whole thing and I don't understand it and certainly was shocked to see you express your opinion in such a way because you're usually so tacktful in expressing them in the past. Or, maybe I just need sleep. BRING BACK 9s!... Or not.  I kind of think people are, in fact, misreading my tone a bit here, but. . .dunno. Maybe I am just a "sanctimonious", self-righteous bitch. Entirely possible.
I'm a bit perplexed as to how this has come around to that damn Statement of Love again. Gonna be haunted by that mutherfucker forever.  Yes, some people were supportive. And some people were jerks. I was never as upset about it as people took me to be, but that's not to say that I didn't feel it when people were being unkind. And I fail to see what any of this has to do with anything here. They are completely separate issues and contexts.
Do you realize that the opinion I expressed here that started all of this was just that the fussing is counterproductive? Not that people don't have a right to feel bad, not that Matt even did the right thing (though I think what he did was reasonable, and I believe I would think that whether I knew him or not), but that continuing to harp on this is not going to bring 9s back sooner? That's my point. And how it has been blown up into first Quaidbowl and now a thread I started more than a year ago is just beyond me. Can my thoughts just stand for what they are without it being about who I sleep with? Because, you know, I could make it about that. I could tell you about who Matt is as a person and what he has done for this site over the years. I have some thoughts about that. But scroll back. . .see any of that? No. I've given my opinions, my reasons behind them when applicable. . .and here we are. Fuck me. If I disagree with the majority, it just MUST be because of Matt, couldn't possibly be that I have a mind of my own. Fair? I don't really think so. But here's what I have to say to the person who claims that life is any more fair on the org than anywhere else: 
This totally doesn't belong in this thread. If anybody has anything more to say to me that has freakin' NOTHING to do with 2the9s, could it go do orgnote please? Or if you really think I'm so interesting, a new thread?  Okay then. | |
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Lleena said: I resent being referred to as needing "babysitters," since those people either supporting 2the9s or curious as to what happened have for the most part been extremely constructive, patient, and thoughtful. Also, lest we forget, the thread that led to 2the9s deactivation is this one:
http://www.prince.org/msg/105/120959 Thankyou ... [Edited 12/5/04 11:08am] I also resent that remark, especially since no one who wants 2the9s back is flaming, baiting, or otherwise taking a snitfit. There hasn;t been anyone who has said that they are leaving because 2the9s has been banned, has there? Some people feel less inclined to post but there are no "suchandso is leaving the org!" threads popping up all over the GD. This thread's intention is for people to express the fact that they miss a member of this online community and that they feel that his banishment was unfair. It's a shame that speaking up for what you believe in means that you need a babysitter or that you;re a childish idiot, or that you need to get over yourself, or whatever. The fact that this thread had become what it's become says a great deal about the power that 2the9s has in this community, even when it comes to those who claim that they don;t care and that we all need let it go. Perhaps those people should start a petition to keep 2the9s banned if they're that pissed off at the show of support on this thread or if they feel like this viewpoint needs to be balanced. All I know is that I miss him. I read the thread that initiated this banishment and I feel that the action was unjust and 2the9s should be allowed to return to the site. | |
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JasmineFire said: Lleena said: I resent being referred to as needing "babysitters," since those people either supporting 2the9s or curious as to what happened have for the most part been extremely constructive, patient, and thoughtful. Also, lest we forget, the thread that led to 2the9s deactivation is this one:
http://www.prince.org/msg/105/120959 Thankyou ... [Edited 12/5/04 11:08am] I also resent that remark, especially since no one who wants 2the9s back is flaming, baiting, or otherwise taking a snitfit. There hasn;t been anyone who has said that they are leaving because 2the9s has been banned, has there? Some people feel less inclined to post but there are no "suchandso is leaving the org!" threads popping up all over the GD. This thread's intention is for people to express the fact that they miss a member of this online community and that they feel that his banishment was unfair. It's a shame that speaking up for what you believe in means that you need a babysitter or that you;re a childish idiot, or that you need to get over yourself, or whatever. The fact that this thread had become what it's become says a great deal about the power that 2the9s has in this community, even when it comes to those who claim that they don;t care and that we all need let it go. Perhaps those people should start a petition to keep 2the9s banned if they're that pissed off at the show of support on this thread or if they feel like this viewpoint needs to be balanced. All I know is that I miss him. I read the thread that initiated this banishment and I feel that the action was unjust and 2the9s should be allowed to return to the site. Amen | |
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Lleena said: That's why? Ah. Now it all makes sense. | |
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 To Sir, with Love | |
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Lleena said: Quaidbowl, Matt/tackam's relationship...I'm sorry this thread has yet again gone way off topic. And I would ask that people respect the wishes of the thread starter here in keeping it respectful and constructive. I resent being referred to as needing "babysitters," since those people either supporting 2the9s or curious as to what happened have for the most part been extremely constructive, patient, and thoughtful. Also, lest we forget, the thread that led to 2the9s deactivation is this one:
http://www.prince.org/msg/105/120959 Thankyou ... [Edited 12/5/04 11:08am] IAN PART OF THIS MESS? NOW THE TOXIC TRUTH COMES FULL CIRCLE! DexMSR said I'm not an Orger...I just Crush alot!
FUKIn classic wHAp MASTEr! | |
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bkw said: It has been said by wise men that the last person to know how others perceive them is the person themselves.
I have no doubt as to the truth of that statement. None. But trust me, I understand that, however I'm being perceived on this thread specifically and on the org in general, it ain't pretty. That's quite clear. Got it. Message received. 
And no, I'm not shocked. Over time, most of us who have contributed anything of ourselves on the org have a group of people who don't much like us. What surprises me is that people find ways to bring up random, irrelevant old shit again and again and again. But each time it happens, I'm less surprised, so y'all please keep on and pretty soon it won't phase me at all. I'm counting on you. 
And yeah, none of that changes my positions. I think something would be wrong if it did. | |
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YOUR CONSTANT USE OF TRITE EMOTICONS IN THIS THREAD IS UNNEARVING AT BEST. YOUR UNENDING DISCRECARD FOR OTHERS FEELINGS IS INEXCUSABLE. DexMSR said I'm not an Orger...I just Crush alot!
FUKIn classic wHAp MASTEr! | |
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JusTinTimE said: YOUR CONSTANT USE OF TRITE EMOTICONS IN THIS THREAD IS UNNEARVING AT BEST. YOUR UNENDING DISCRECARD FOR OTHERS FEELINGS IS INEXCUSABLE.
 | |
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tackam said: JusTinTimE said: YOUR CONSTANT USE OF TRITE EMOTICONS IN THIS THREAD IS UNNEARVING AT BEST. YOUR UNENDING DISCRECARD FOR OTHERS FEELINGS IS INEXCUSABLE.
 DexMSR said I'm not an Orger...I just Crush alot!
FUKIn classic wHAp MASTEr! | |
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JusTinTimE said: tackam said:  | |
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keep your posse close to home
keep your ass and mouth sown up shut keep on believin keep decieiving your own mind in its own mind rut keep on justifyin what you cant back out of and i know we all heard enough of any thing about you my friends gone n im blue baby bring him back no flack hay stack no lookin back keep undercover from the site just a web page all will b all right keep repeatin like a mantra till the words seep deep into yo soul like burnin coal keep the home fires burnin proof of a mornin after gleem nothin in org land is ever what it might seem keep a stiff uppa lip and a nose so clean n call me baby in the mornnnnniinnnnn call me baby in the mornin we can talk , [Edited 12/5/04 19:03pm] | |
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Shaus!  When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Lleena said: Also, lest we forget, the thread that led to 2the9s deactivation is this one:
http://www.prince.org/msg/105/120959 In all fairness, what led to his deactivation was that thread in combination with his past history. Also, it's important to note that in the post I snipped, 2the9s stated that he wasn't willing to follow our rule on "challenging" moderation decisions. Before users are allowed to post to the forums, the site software requires them to agree to the rules. And when a user explicitly reneges on that agreement, well, Houston, we have a problem. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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PEJ said: I wonder if matt ever heard from ben ... how about an update?
Okay, I'm back in Seattle, and an update you shall have.... 
Ben has not yet had an opportunity to contact me via telephone. He's apparently very busy with work and being a new father. However, he has been participating in the online discussion that's currently taking place among the mods about issues such as 2the9s, and I think we are making some real progress. Also, Ben does have both my home and cell phone numbers, and I've let him know that I'm happy to talk with him at his convenience. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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tackam said: sag10 said: Haven't you ever heard of speaking up for what you feel is right? First amendment rights. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the ORG for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief. That is what each and all of us is doing.. I'm sitting here honestly trying to figure out to what degree you are kidding here. In case you're serious: The. Org. Ain't. A. Democracy. It's a theocracy, Ben is god, and the mods are his earthly representatives. "Ain't no room to disagree. . ."
I respect the mods leaving this thread in place, but the reality is, IMHO, it's counterproductive.  Tackam please let's just leave this as is.. The people here are speaking up for what they believe in. And for that I respect each and every one of them. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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sag10 said: tackam said: I'm sitting here honestly trying to figure out to what degree you are kidding here. In case you're serious: The. Org. Ain't. A. Democracy. It's a theocracy, Ben is god, and the mods are his earthly representatives. "Ain't no room to disagree. . ."
I respect the mods leaving this thread in place, but the reality is, IMHO, it's counterproductive. Tackam please let's just leave this as is.. The people here are speaking up for what they believe in. And for that I respect each and every one of them.  That post was 4 days ago. I think I DID leave it. . . I guess you mean more generally, but sorry, I've got thoughts on this too.
I respect that people are saying what they think (I'm not going to say "right" because nobody has a "right" to say ANYthing on the org). And I'm saying what I think. Am I less entitled to that because I disagree with the majority? Honestly, sag? Am I? | |
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tackam said: sag10 said: Tackam please let's just leave this as is.. The people here are speaking up for what they believe in. And for that I respect each and every one of them. That post was 4 days ago. I think I DID leave it. . . I guess you mean more generally, but sorry, I've got thoughts on this too.
I respect that people are saying what they think (I'm not going to say "right" because nobody has a "right" to say ANYthing on the org). And I'm saying what I think. Am I less entitled to that because I disagree with the majority? Honestly, sag? Am I? You are entitled to your opinion.. But it appears that you are being combative.. This isn't about you, it is about 2the9s. He has been here for a long time, and people adore the numbskull. They sincerely care about him. As I do. Matt is doing a great job handling this thread... and I for one appreciate his time and effort. He is all that is needed. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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sag10 said: tackam said: That post was 4 days ago. I think I DID leave it. . . I guess you mean more generally, but sorry, I've got thoughts on this too.
I respect that people are saying what they think (I'm not going to say "right" because nobody has a "right" to say ANYthing on the org). And I'm saying what I think. Am I less entitled to that because I disagree with the majority? Honestly, sag? Am I? You are entitled to your opinion.. But it appears that you are being combative.. This isn't about you, it is about 2the9s. He has been here for a long time, and people adore the numbskull. They sincerely care about him. As I do. Matt is doing a great job handling this thread... and I for one appreciate his time and effort. He is all that is needed. Oooooohhhh, nice. That's just lovely. So, only people who who agree with the majority, plus Matt, are supposed to post here? Look, I'm not trying to ride in Matt's sidecar here, I'm just saying what I freakin' think! And I would have been off of this damn thread a long time ago if I had been allowed to do that like anybody else! I didn't want it to be about me! Fucking hell! People were free to disagree with my perspective, tell me why, and move on, but instead it has become this big, personal THING. It was NOT my intention, I'm NOT enjoying it, and I'd be delighted if we could fucking drop it! Geezus! 
(And once again, for the record, I do not have and have never had any problem with 2the9s. Hopefully the feeling is still mutual.  ) | |
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tackam said: sag10 said: You are entitled to your opinion.. But it appears that you are being combative.. This isn't about you, it is about 2the9s. He has been here for a long time, and people adore the numbskull. They sincerely care about him. As I do. Matt is doing a great job handling this thread... and I for one appreciate his time and effort. He is all that is needed. Oooooohhhh, nice. That's just lovely. So, only people who who agree with the majority, plus Matt, are supposed to post here? Look, I'm not trying to ride in Matt's sidecar here, I'm just saying what I freakin' think! And I would have been off of this damn thread a long time ago if I had been allowed to do that like anybody else! I didn't want it to be about me! Fucking hell! People were free to disagree with my perspective, tell me why, and move on, but instead it has become this big, personal THING. It was NOT my intention, I'm NOT enjoying it, and I'd be delighted if we could fucking drop it! Geezus!
(And once again, for the record, I do not have and have never had any problem with 2the9s. Hopefully the feeling is still mutual. )If you want off this thread then why are you posting on it? NOBODY is twisting your arm. There was no need to be so combative with Sag, now please calm down
Perhaps you shouldn't read this thread as it seems to be upsetting you. | |
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tackam said: sag10 said: You are entitled to your opinion.. But it appears that you are being combative.. This isn't about you, it is about 2the9s. He has been here for a long time, and people adore the numbskull. They sincerely care about him. As I do. Matt is doing a great job handling this thread... and I for one appreciate his time and effort. He is all that is needed. Oooooohhhh, nice. That's just lovely. So, only people who who agree with the majority, plus Matt, are supposed to post here? Look, I'm not trying to ride in Matt's sidecar here, I'm just saying what I freakin' think! And I would have been off of this damn thread a long time ago if I had been allowed to do that like anybody else! I didn't want it to be about me! Fucking hell! People were free to disagree with my perspective, tell me why, and move on, but instead it has become this big, personal THING. It was NOT my intention, I'm NOT enjoying it, and I'd be delighted if we could fucking drop it! Geezus!
(And once again, for the record, I do not have and have never had any problem with 2the9s. Hopefully the feeling is still mutual. )OK, then... goodbye!  VOTE....EARLY | |
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Lleena said: If you want off this thread then why are you posting on it? NOBODY is twisting your arm. There was no need to be so combative with Sag, now please calm down
Perhaps you shouldn't read this thread as it seems to be upsetting you. Well said, Lleena (and Sag). Now... let's get back to the petition at hand: BRING BACK 2the9s!!!!!    VOTE....EARLY | |
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Just thinking about 2the9s makes me wanna play tic tac toe. No, hold on, wait a minute, that aint right!  When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Lleena said: tackam said: Oooooohhhh, nice. That's just lovely. So, only people who who agree with the majority, plus Matt, are supposed to post here? Look, I'm not trying to ride in Matt's sidecar here, I'm just saying what I freakin' think! And I would have been off of this damn thread a long time ago if I had been allowed to do that like anybody else! I didn't want it to be about me! Fucking hell! People were free to disagree with my perspective, tell me why, and move on, but instead it has become this big, personal THING. It was NOT my intention, I'm NOT enjoying it, and I'd be delighted if we could fucking drop it! Geezus!
(And once again, for the record, I do not have and have never had any problem with 2the9s. Hopefully the feeling is still mutual. )If you want off this thread then why are you posting on it? NOBODY is twisting your arm. There was no need to be so combative with Sag, now please calm down
Perhaps you shouldn't read this thread as it seems to be upsetting you. Oh, I don't know about "upset". Annoyed, yes. The reason I'm still here is to defend myself. "Combative", eh? Maintaining a cool tone doesn't make one any less obnoxious, as sag has skillfully demonstrated. I'd rather just come out with it. I'm not the passive aggressive sort. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities. Why bother at all? Dunno. Why not? It's more fun than the things I should be doing right now. | |
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DiminutiveRocker said: tackam said: Oooooohhhh, nice. That's just lovely. So, only people who who agree with the majority, plus Matt, are supposed to post here? Look, I'm not trying to ride in Matt's sidecar here, I'm just saying what I freakin' think! And I would have been off of this damn thread a long time ago if I had been allowed to do that like anybody else! I didn't want it to be about me! Fucking hell! People were free to disagree with my perspective, tell me why, and move on, but instead it has become this big, personal THING. It was NOT my intention, I'm NOT enjoying it, and I'd be delighted if we could fucking drop it! Geezus!
(And once again, for the record, I do not have and have never had any problem with 2the9s. Hopefully the feeling is still mutual. )OK, then... goodbye! 
Uh oh, she's STILL HERE! AAAHHHH! Still waiting for my ban. . .  . . .not sure what's taking so long. How many moderators do I have to blow to get some action around here? Christ. . . | |
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tackam said: Lleena said: If you want off this thread then why are you posting on it? NOBODY is twisting your arm. There was no need to be so combative with Sag, now please calm down
Perhaps you shouldn't read this thread as it seems to be upsetting you. Oh, I don't know about "upset". Annoyed, yes. The reason I'm still here is to defend myself. "Combative", eh? Maintaining a cool tone doesn't make one any less obnoxious, as sag has skillfully demonstrated. I'd rather just come out with it. I'm not the passive aggressive sort. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities. Why bother at all? Dunno. Why not? It's more fun than the things I should be doing right now. You know Tackam you are just creating more, and more trouble.. [Personal attack snipped. --Matt] . [Edited 12/6/04 15:26pm] [Edited 12/7/04 6:24am] ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
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Well, that's the thread turned to shit. Again.
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