June, you might as well lock this shit again, some people will not let the bullshit go. I just thought it was a bad thing to lock a thread discussing moderation, but maybe it's for the best. Ian knows he attacked me on a personal level, he just thinks nobody cares. Sosgemini, thanks for noticing.

Lock it, I'd be happy to discuss moderation on a creative level with whoever thinks I have ideas worth exploring. If not, I did my best on this thread.

tackam said:

see, i dont get why you feel its appropriate and/or justified to make comments like this....

you are not helping us moderators try to improve this site..in fact, your making matters worse.

tackam said:

and because you feel its okay to harrass teacher in public let me issue this warning...any future baiting of her will result in moderation action towards your account.

got it? good...lets dance!!
[Edited 11/10/04 9:13am]
[Edited 11/10/04 9:18am]

meh.
[Edited 11/10/04 9:48am]

Teacher said:

I'm glad you agree with my suggestion!

sosgemini said:

What the fuck is this shit?

ian said:

Come again?

So far, I'd say this thread is going rather well!

ian said:

Org Karma, Kiigan--how does it feel?

Okay... home from work.

Man... so much to respond to, so little time.

Ian. You know I love ya, but, you of all people should understand what goes on within the walls of moderation. Your posts were not the only ones deleted, but a majority of the ones where they/it eluded to potential flames, massive arguments or baiting, etc... were deleted. I don't have the time or the patience to go through each sentence and clip and snip... when necessary. So, off goes the whole post. Don't take it personal.

tackam... another I'm quite fond of. Yours too fell into that category that included other messages that required snipping or cutting. So off goes the whole post. Don't take it personal, though I really don't think you did.

Teacher... who I've had a very rough past with, and whose posts were also deleted in mass quantities, appears to be the only one accepting the thread for what it is... a discussion of moderation.

Others were deleted and made no big whoop.

Ian... I'm very disturbed that you would take this public when I never got a chance to reply to your orgnote (after you orgnoted matt, of course). I'm sad that this is a side of you I've never known, and now do. As an friendly orger (to me, anyway), and former moderator (who usually was fair to me, as well), I must say I'm very surprised by your actions on this thread.

I'm going to leave this thread open, hoping it will improve... I won't hold my breath.



- June7

doctormcmeekle said:

sosgemini said:

Uh. . .kay.

June7 said:

Lemme try to give you a breather, June

restarting discussion

Care has to been taken that the moderation does not shift from moderating a forum to moderating a user. I realise the distinction can be difficult to make at times, but I think this is one of the root causes for disgruntled orgers.

About the locking (idd a better idea than deleting) of ones own thread: I ment it as a feature linked to user-level. It's obvious newbies, loose canons etc should be allowed this site-privilege.

Finally, a new thought: Is it an idea to have mods temporarily lock heated threads (say 15 mins) to force everyone keeping their cool. If the thread reopens and flaming starts afresh, permanent lock. So the temporal-lock is a final chance warning. This perhaps avoids having to deactivate users.

AnotherLoverToo said:

Well, I like it less than I did when I was deleting other people's posts if that's what you mean?

But I have learned nothing!

AlfofMelmak said:

Just two opinions I have about that.

One, I'm not sure temporary locks will help much. After all, flame wars can take place over hours and days - they don't have to be "live". So I'm not sure it would be effective, although it might be worth a shot.

Two, I don't really like the classism idea... having more priviledges if you've been here longer etc. I think the only "trusted" users (those with extra priviledges) should be those designated as moderators. But I think there could be a lot more mods in each forum.

That said, I do think given thread creators access to lock their threads is a good thing.

June7 said:

Sorry June7, I like you too but if you don't have time to do it right, don't be a moderator. Or let another moderator to manage the issue and do things properly - don't just do a half-assed job of it. There's plenty of moderators now.

I dislike the notion of "preventive deletion" - removing posts because they might possibly lead to an argument at some point in the future. You have to understand that people invest time in their posts, invest in discussions - so arbitrarily deleting large posts should only be done as a last resort. What is the point of posting on Prince.org at all, if overzealous mods will leap at the chance to delete large posts you've spent time on, purely on the basis that some fucking tedious crank takes issue with a single comment? That's just a crazy way to do things.

You could have asked me to tone it down, or to censor my own posts. I would happily have done that if requested. Ultimately you are a moderator so you should do whatever you see fit to do - but when you fuck over a user to such a degree, at least give him/her the courtesy of an orgnote to explain why.
Otherwise you end up with pissed off users, see?



It was nonsense. Tackam did nothing at all, and sos (who I like and respect a lot) was totally out of line with his threatening post directed at her. No idea what that was about, but it was pretty fucking retarded.



Some people have learned to keep quiet because (a) if they misbehave they'll get booted again and (b) they know that by avoiding flames but instead harranguing mods privately they can get the results they crave. That's the way the Org works. Of course I'm speaking purely hypothetically here, and this should not be perceived as a flame or any kind of personal attack on any of the deranged cranks we may or may not have on the site.



"side of you" C'mon, give me a break here. This isn't personal, June7. It's just about moderation. That is the purpose of the thread remember? An honest discussion and all that.

If you don't understand why people get annoyed when you arbitrarily nuke their posts (because you don't have time to deal with them properly) with no consideration or explanation, I'm not sure what else to say to you. But I'll take this discussion to orgnote.
[Edited 11/11/04 2:53am]

While we are discussing moderation openly and honestly, I have another issue I'd like to mention. I think the mods have been a bit too lock-happy lately, a bit too paranoid perhaps. Particularly in forums such as the P&R forum, where people need a bit more scope to express themselves properly etc. Opinions? There's definitely a few threads that have been locked in the Site Discussion forum, and the P&R forum that really didn't need locking... it appears to have been done as a "pre-emptive strike". Is this the new standard here?

AlfofMelmak said:

I think you have to moderate orgers as well as the forums. I don't think you can seperate the two.

I like the idea of being able to lock your own threads in theory, but in practice I can see some issues. Ie, the ability to have the final word(post) and prevent discussion. Surely defeating the purpose of message boards. But maybe worth a try if not too dificult to set up? One for Ben I think.

I don't see the point of a temporary lock. If a thread needs locked it needs locked. How long is temporary when people are posting at all hours/time zones? And people on this site can carry grudges for years!!

Finally, I like the idea of more moderators. Providing they are not rubbish.

2the9s said:

doctormcmeekle said:

I agree though, I couldn't be happier with the way moderation is executed right now. I finally learned what FunkMistress said on June's thread in the GD about not posting adult images, she said something along the lines of "I used to argue with the teacher's rule about not being allowed to chew gum when I really needed to stfu and chew my gum at home". I learned to do just that, shut the fuck up, accept the mods' decisions and move on. I also grew up a little or a lot, and it helps too. The moderation IS much better now, it rarely if ever feels as arbitrary and kiss-ass as it used to. I of course understand why you make this comment seeing as 2the9s was banned, and I miss him a lot too. I can also understand why people take certain discussions like those in the P&R forum personally, because in nature those topics are a lot more personal than the usual rubbish or silly thread in the GD.
It's now totally beyond me how people even can bother being upset about one of those threads, but I'm feeling what people are saying about the P&R. I think that it might serve its purpose to wait just a little bit with locking the offensive threads, a warning could be issued on the thread for example, prior to locking it.
As for Ian's statement about me - I have never been booted from this site, all he did was preventing me from orgnoting cos he didn't want to face the discussion.

doctormcmeekle said:

I mentioned these issues as well, but maybe it would only be a child's disease, it could pass when the novelty wears off. I hope it would, but like you say it's worth a try unless it uproots everything Ben has done, then it's DEF not worth it. In that case I'd settle for more mods, maybe one or two of GD's more prolific and fair posters to deal with that forum only. My flag is still waving for Sag if she'd be willing, and Lleena.

ian said:

yes, more threads have been locked of late but its not due to us mods getting trigger happy...since the election we have seen a huge increase in the amount of "report to moderation"...and thats fine. emotions are high right now..on one hand you have people who are frustrated because their candidate lost and on the other you have people who are frustrated that others are soo upset their candidate won...whola!! instant recipe for turmoil...

but things have been calming down...and those who are abusing the "report to moderator" option are also being dealt with.....im hopeful things will get back to normal in four years.. i mean in a few days..

sosgemini said:

Here's hoping!

Teacher said:

That's simply not true. I really don't want to get into an argument about it, but it's not fair to misrepresent your moderation history (especially in a discussion about moderation), and it's not fair to imply that Ian was being untruthful.

matt said:

Edited cos I was just threatened with deactivation.
[Edited 11/11/04 7:39am]

Keep tha peace edit.
[Edited 11/11/04 9:40am]

sosgemini said:

oh my goodness.

Just-feeling-left-out-of-the-editing edit.


[Edited 11/11/04 21:31pm]

Teacher said:

Hey! What about me?







apparently-we-need-to-edit-our-posts-edit
[Edited 11/12/04 15:58pm]