How would you do it? What do you think is the best way to obtain RELIABLE international distribution on YOUR product - WITHOUT a record deal? Pure DISTRIBUTION only.

Old school - record deals, release parties, independent promo people, unloaded product from the back trunk of a car direct to radio and retail; grease, record store displays, free product to whoever counts, flyers & rags, great press, yadda yadda. And of course, new school would not ignore this today; promotion is where it's at - no promotion - no good.

Along comes www.
Are Internet Music Distributors, who promise to highlight new bands, new product, sell product, ship product etc; are they really selling enough product to benefit both themselves and the artists? Is it working? Do you think their distribution royalty rate of 60/40, some 50/50 is worth it for the artists. Or is it just as thieving as todays record companies?

Is there yet a better way?

What route would you go for an international release?

Red said:

Short answer, start local.


Unless you've already sold 200,000 units, going international is like a 16 year old hostess at a restaurant wanting to open her own 1000-seat restaurant in Manhattan, and then is turned down by the banks (or the banks' secretaries) for the ten million dollar loan. Forget the fact that she only has worked as a hostess (the only job she ever had) for three months.

Now, if the person seeking the ten million dollar bank loan had been a 20 year food service veteran, having worked as hostess, waitress, cook, bartender, head chef, assistant and general manager, well then, they might listen. But the real answer for the 16 year old hostess is the answer for the grassroots indie artist: Why are you wasting your time focusing on things that are so high level that they don't apply to you? They may apply to other people in larger marketing situations, but not to you at your level.

The real reason that the 16 year old hostess can't get the restaurant loan (and thus can't "move forward") is that she knows almost nothing about the restaurant business. She knows so little, as a matter of fact, that she does not even know what she doesn't know. But the bank knows, for a fact, that she has no chance of success...


Forget international, start by building a buzz locally by selling out clubs in your hometown, consigning your CD in local stores, and make it available online at amazon.com, CDBaby.com, CDStreet.com and your website. Once you sell enough locally or regionally, larger companies will start to come to you with better resources to help you up to the next level.

Bad analogy, low expectation - not taking advantage of global resources.

and what does this mean "They may apply to other people in larger marketing situations, but not to you at your level."
What is my level? Why limit it with a level? Possibilities are endless. You think some little punkette like Avril Lavigne, from some tiny Ontario town paid her dues there. No. OK, she had label support to hit the international level she did, but it didn't start with local gigs. She had a package built around her - a Matrix so to speak. And I don't think that is all that difficult to do. In fact, I know it isn't. I don't feel the Avril thing, she certainly isn't a ground breaking, earth shattering talent. She is simply an example of good packaging, good promo and yes...some grease. It's all packaging.

Which is simply the question. If you didn't have or don't WANT major label support - can internet music distributors factor into your success? I don't suppose they could hurt, but should they be considered an important element in the process?

Red said:

O.K. what global resources would these be? You can't think that by throwing your songs up on some websites, people will be running for their wallets, buying enough of your CD for you to quit your day job! Of course you need a web presence, as part of a bigger plan.

By the way, I gave you a good analogy, you just don't know it yet!



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[This message was edited Fri Apr 18 15:17:33 PDT 2003 by theSpark]

Red said:

I thought this thread was about the people that didn't have the support she has. Avril Lavigne was created in a corporate boardroom. Anything can be a success if you throw enough money behind it. Let's talk about how to do it if you don't have that matrix.

Red said:

Having a web presence is an important part of the equation, and virtually 100% of all online CD sales for indie musicians breaks down like this:

Amazon.com 94%
CDBaby.com/CDStreet.com 3%
Your own website 3%

Spark, I'm only too familiar with how to work an Artist and all that goes into it. However, the on-line approach is not one that I have tested yet, especially with new artists. Grant it, they require extra promo, home web-site, the whole bit - but I'm working a project right now that has no label support. By choice we decided to say fuck the label route, let's trying other avenues of distribution. I'd like to hear from someone, other than an international artist that can tell me - IF the on-line thang works for them. Are they actually selling CD's?

Red said:

No, the majority of CD sales for indie artists comes from live performances. Of course I've sold many CD's online, but ask yourself, what's worked for you? How many of the orgs musicians sites have you checked out, listened to and felt compelled to buy? (My site is http://CaryAria.com - just in case you want buy my CD! )

The best time to sell a CD is right after the audience has experienced a great live performance, when its still fresh in their minds, when you talk to everyone in the room and say "hey, thanks for coming, do you have my CD, its only $10". When you make a connection with your audience. Of course I do all I can to direct people to my website by getting them to sign my mailing list, all part of a total plan.


Thats been my experience anyway.

Well Spark, after a week's research on distribution, I'm gonna have to agree...the labels have it wrapped up. I have a 1001 ways to blow up an act but without distribution it's futile. What we need is a company out there that isn't a label but reps solely on distribution. It's a bitch.

Gave your tunes a listen - kinda retro's 60
Not bad, keep on truckin'.

Red said:

Great theory Red, except that NOBODY is going to do distribution on a band that NOBODY is going to buy because they haven't heard of that band.

You can't just canvas the nation with CDs. AOL's been doing that for years, and well... I digress. My point is, there IS NO "GET BIG OVERNIGHT" scheme. It just doens't happen, unless yeah, you're Avril "pet of the label" Levigne.

That's just the label creating a product, then pumping MILLIONS into making the public believe that it's the flavor of the month. She'll disappear in 6 months (GOD I hope).

But from a BAND's perspective, there's no way you can do it. You HAVE to start small, and build up slowly, town by town, that HARD way.

Just BECAUSE you could get a CD into every store in every town in the nation, or the world, it doens't mean people will buy that CD. Unless you're there, pushing the product, folks wont even KNOW about you.

It's SUPPLY and DEMAND. You could have all the supply in the world, but without the DEMAND, you won't sell a single disc.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 8:12:57 PDT 2003 by otan]

Ahhh but this is the original point to my question Otan. We are prepared to do the work and spend $ on promotion. This is covered and I can assure you, better than any label out there could do. Just as we would be prepared to spend $ on distribution - if it was available without the label. Hello...the distribution arms of the labels are shipping constantly and to all major cities. Why couldn't a distributor charge a price to the Artist to include chosen cities for distribution. I don't need every momandpop store, just one major store per major city. I'd pay that price. Just the distribution. I'll sell it.

Yes, I would pay 4 it.

Post Script

Let me give U an example, away from the Avril poop.
Remember what happened to St. Germain's Tourist after the movie 'SNATCH'. This is what I'm talking about.

Germain was of course, not an unknown, but almost. This movie turned it around overnight. His distributor (record label yes) was on top of it. They had product everywhere and that product took off fast and hard. It wasn't the label that pushed his product (and maybe they didn't even put the film deal together) - it was the movie.

It's very very possible. Right time - right place - right product.

Otan brought up some great points about starting small.

I believe that one has to dominate a little area then the next, and so fourth.
I've made a good name of my self in my school and town, but i ain't jack shit anywhere else, right?
I have to keep starting over, every place i go.
then hopefully ppl will catch on.

But Red's got a good idea, combined with the starting small.

Germain's advantage was getting onto a movie, so he/they didn't have to invest a DIME in pushing public awareness NEAR as hard as someone just pushing it on their own.

IF you got your song into a movie that starred Brad Pitt, come on, that's about as good as it can get. So again, while it's a valid point, it's hardly a by-the-numbers process.

BUT, you COULD market wisely instead of widely. Send out your CDs to radio stations first, follow up with a letter a week later (just checking how's it going, playing, any feedback, etc) and THEN go push the CD in stores in that area.

But again, without the public knowing about your disc, you're wasting your money shipping even one cd. I've had a CD in a local music store for TWO YEARS now, just one cd, just one local music store, and it's never sold. I sell the discs at gigs, and even online sometimes, but not in the music store... I'm sure by now thousands of people have passed it over in search of something else, something that they KNOW they're looking for.

So maybe we should look at "HOW CAN YOU PUSH PUBLIC AWARENESS" before looking at how to get the distribution... because trust me, once you've got public awareness and interest, not demand, but interest, labels will want to work with you on distribution.

SO. Methods of raising public awareness without actually gigging: commercials, movies, background music on radio/cable shows... ANY thing that plays music in the background while people are looking at/for something else.

With THAT in mind, I would suggest sending your discs to cable stations like CNN, Weather, Shopping, Sports, Cooking - ANY of those type shows - I bet they're constantly looking for music, and I bet their website lists the artists that appear on those shows. Ditto with radio - NPR is ALWAYS throwing cool stuff into their broadcasts.

So there you go. I would suggest following these routes for creating public awareness/interest. Your costs would be much lower, fewer discs going out. If you put your music on national stations, you'd need to make your music available online, but if you put it locally on radio/tv stations, then you might be able to put some discs in stores and see a profit.

MAN we oughtta put all this knowledge into a website - internet music marketing.

Now you're getting it. Grant it, I have a bit of an edge having worked bands for more years than I'd like to mention, hence my distaste for the labels. Being in the entertainment industry also affords you avenues that the unknown Artist doesn't have, which is why they turn to a label. But, as a seasoned professional, with contacts - I feel I have everything but the dayum distribution...and it's buggin.

I'd have to say with the state of radio today and Clear Channel that if an unknown Artist is going to send product to radio stations, it's gonna make a nice office frisbee or coaster. Radio isn't going to air it until it makes noise or Clear Channel doles out the grease (and don't believe that press release this week about Clear Channel getting rid of their middle men...it will never happen; payola will always be part of the game.

However, hookin up with jingle houses, TV & film libraries, film producers, events, other Artists, getting it spun in clubs, bars, cafes, consignment with independent stores... and yes the local flyers, papers and rags CAN make it happen. But...baby when it does blow up, U betta have the product available. Who's going to sell it? Will it be in-store retail or will it be on-line distributors like CDStreet, CDBaby, etc.

Maybe I'm not putting enough trust in on-line retailers. Maybe this IS the way to go.