violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I noticed that comment about the 80's during I Love U But I Don't Trust You too.I had heard him say that in some of his other performances of it during the P&M shows and it is interesting that he added that line.Some have thought he was talking about Denise but it's true that he gave Susannah a ring.I had never thought of that before and that it may have been another song that was inspired by her.He was talking about getting someone out of his system during the shows at PP as well.He said some very interesting things during the P&M shows and he came across as very open and honest.I found it sweet the way he seemed to be sharing his heart with the audience.

Yes, he was opening up a bit more emotionally. Like Susannah mentioned in her interview, he most likely knew he didn't have much time left. So sad. His Sister Tyka has stated he told her 3 years ago. Wish someone could have stopped his decline.

Yes,it's so sad.It didn't seem that he had anyone who was really there for him though I'm sure plenty of his friends,Susannah included would have been there had they known what he was going through.Susannah said in the interview that she felt that Lisa could have reached him and that he would have responded to her if she had been there.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, he was opening up a bit more emotionally. Like Susannah mentioned in her interview, he most likely knew he didn't have much time left. So sad. His Sister Tyka has stated he told her 3 years ago. Wish someone could have stopped his decline.

Yes,it's so sad.It didn't seem that he had anyone who was really there for him though I'm sure plenty of his friends,Susannah included would have been there had they known what he was going through.Susannah said in the interview that she felt that Lisa could have reached him and that he would have responded to her if she had been there.

I'm sure Susannah feels that way, and they may have tried to be there, but if his Sister and closest friend (which I think was Kirk Johnson) could not change things I don't think they could have either. Tyka stated when she got a call from Prince a few years ago she didn't think anything in particular about some of the things he was telling her. He had asked her to forward a certain message to Andre Cymone and a few other close friends. She stated when she received the message to send him she figured it out and was extremely upset. She said when she spoke to Prince again he told her that he'd done all that he came here to do. She said she knew he was dying

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes,it's so sad.It didn't seem that he had anyone who was really there for him though I'm sure plenty of his friends,Susannah included would have been there had they known what he was going through.Susannah said in the interview that she felt that Lisa could have reached him and that he would have responded to her if she had been there.

I'm sure Susannah feels that way, and they may have tried to be there, but if his Sister and closest friend (which I think was Kirk Johnson) could not change things I don't think they could have either. Tyka stated when she got a call from Prince a few years ago she didn't think anything in particular about some of the things he was telling her. He had asked her to forward a certain message to Andre Cymone and a few other close friends. She stated when she received the message to send him she figured it out and was extremely upset. She said when she spoke to Prince again he told her that he'd done all that he came here to do. She said she knew he was dying

I saw that interview with Tyka as well.It does seem there's more to the story than has been told.Prince associate Dr Funk says he thought that Tyka had misunderstood and that Prince didn't mean it the way she had taken it.He said that Prince had a lot of plans for the future and a lot of projects in the works.It does seem that he needed a better support system around him.Dr.F also said that he felt if Prince had been surrounded by more women that it wouldn't have happened because he said that Prince would listen to women and take their advice more than he did men.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

I'm sure Susannah feels that way, and they may have tried to be there, but if his Sister and closest friend (which I think was Kirk Johnson) could not change things I don't think they could have either. Tyka stated when she got a call from Prince a few years ago she didn't think anything in particular about some of the things he was telling her. He had asked her to forward a certain message to Andre Cymone and a few other close friends. She stated when she received the message to send him she figured it out and was extremely upset. She said when she spoke to Prince again he told her that he'd done all that he came here to do. She said she knew he was dying

I saw that interview with Tyka as well.It does seem there's more to the story than has been told.Prince associate Dr Funk says he thought that Tyka had misunderstood and that Prince didn't mean it the way she had taken it.He said that Prince had a lot of plans for the future and a lot of projects in the works.It does seem that he needed a better support system around him.Dr.F also said that he felt if Prince had been surrounded by more women that it wouldn't have happened because he said that Prince would listen to women and take their advice more than he did men.

Could be the case, but I get the impression that Prince and Tyka were still close, even though they did not publicize it. I could be wrong about that. I agree he seemed to relate much better to women. Also, I don't think Wendy, Lisa and Susannah would have worried about confronting him or talking to him about it, although it may have been hard for them to reach him directly. Also, I can't remember where I read this, but someone in his circle had stated in an interview that he told him he was having lucid dreams of conversations with people who had already passed. Also, the same guy, or another guy at PP told a journalist that the night Prince held the concert, after the Molene incident, he knew something wasn't right, because Prince's expression either before or after going on stage was very serious - not the usual smile or upbeat attitude he would normally have.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I saw that interview with Tyka as well.It does seem there's more to the story than has been told.Prince associate Dr Funk says he thought that Tyka had misunderstood and that Prince didn't mean it the way she had taken it.He said that Prince had a lot of plans for the future and a lot of projects in the works.It does seem that he needed a better support system around him.Dr.F also said that he felt if Prince had been surrounded by more women that it wouldn't have happened because he said that Prince would listen to women and take their advice more than he did men.

Could be the case, but I get the impression that Prince and Tyka were still close, even though they did not publicize it. I could be wrong about that. I agree he seemed to relate much better to women. Also, I don't think Wendy, Lisa and Susannah would have worried about confronting him or talking to him about it, although it may have been hard for them to reach him directly. Also, I can't remember where I read this, but someone in his circle had stated in an interview that he told him he was having lucid dreams of conversations with people who had already passed. Also, the same guy, or another guy at PP told a journalist that the night Prince held the concert, after the Molene incident, he knew something wasn't right, because Prince's expression either before or after going on stage was very serious - not the usual smile or upbeat attitude he would normally have.

I believe he and Tyka had gotten closer the last few years from what I have read.I agree that Wendy,Lisa and Susannah wouldn't have had a problem with confronting him but it seemed some in his circle may have been keeping some people away from what some of his friends have said.He mentioned that he was having lucid dreams during one of the P&M shows at PP as well.I do remember Dr Funk saying that he saw him at the last PP party and that Prince gave him a look and he knew something wasn't right.He said that was the last time he saw him and that he didn't get a chance to talk to him.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Could be the case, but I get the impression that Prince and Tyka were still close, even though they did not publicize it. I could be wrong about that. I agree he seemed to relate much better to women. Also, I don't think Wendy, Lisa and Susannah would have worried about confronting him or talking to him about it, although it may have been hard for them to reach him directly. Also, I can't remember where I read this, but someone in his circle had stated in an interview that he told him he was having lucid dreams of conversations with people who had already passed. Also, the same guy, or another guy at PP told a journalist that the night Prince held the concert, after the Molene incident, he knew something wasn't right, because Prince's expression either before or after going on stage was very serious - not the usual smile or upbeat attitude he would normally have.

I believe he and Tyka had gotten closer the last few years from what I have read.I agree that Wendy,Lisa and Susannah wouldn't have had a problem with confronting him but it seemed some in his circle may have been keeping some people away from what some of his friends have said.He mentioned that he was having lucid dreams during one of the P&M shows at PP as well.I do remember Dr Funk saying that he saw him at the last PP party and that Prince gave him a look and he knew something wasn't right.He said that was the last time he saw him and that he didn't get a chance to talk to him.

Yes, I just think he knew. He was a smart guy, and he only let in those that he wanted to. Seems he confided in his Sister and just a few very close friends. As Susannah said, he really could not show weakness or vulnerability to anyone. He would not have wanted the public to know he needed rehabilitation due to pain med addiction. Just hearbreaking though, because he could have been treated for it - if that was the only reason for his decline.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I believe he and Tyka had gotten closer the last few years from what I have read.I agree that Wendy,Lisa and Susannah wouldn't have had a problem with confronting him but it seemed some in his circle may have been keeping some people away from what some of his friends have said.He mentioned that he was having lucid dreams during one of the P&M shows at PP as well.I do remember Dr Funk saying that he saw him at the last PP party and that Prince gave him a look and he knew something wasn't right.He said that was the last time he saw him and that he didn't get a chance to talk to him.

Yes, I just think he knew. He was a smart guy, and he only let in those that he wanted to. Seems he confided in his Sister and just a few very close friends. As Susannah said, he really could not show weakness or vulnerability to anyone. He would not have wanted the public to know he needed rehabilitation due to pain med addiction. Just hearbreaking though, because he could have been treated for it - if that was the only reason for his decline.

That's true.I think he most likely was afraid of it getting out to the media,as well as fans and was very careful who he confided in.It is very heartbreaking.From what they have said,he had agreed to get help too.With the weight loss from 2015 on,I wonder if he may have also had an undisclosed illness.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I just think he knew. He was a smart guy, and he only let in those that he wanted to. Seems he confided in his Sister and just a few very close friends. As Susannah said, he really could not show weakness or vulnerability to anyone. He would not have wanted the public to know he needed rehabilitation due to pain med addiction. Just hearbreaking though, because he could have been treated for it - if that was the only reason for his decline.

That's true.I think he most likely was afraid of it getting out to the media,as well as fans and was very careful who he confided in.It is very heartbreaking.From what they have said,he had agreed to get help too.With the weight loss from 2015 on,I wonder if he may have also had an undisclosed illness.

It's possible there may have been some other factor contributing to the weight loss, but I do believe that pain med addiction can cause that as well. I think the desire or appetite for food goes away at a certain point - the effect of increasing the dosage. Yes, just heartbreaking that he finally agreed to seek help - or maybe he knew it was too late at that point.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That's true.I think he most likely was afraid of it getting out to the media,as well as fans and was very careful who he confided in.It is very heartbreaking.From what they have said,he had agreed to get help too.With the weight loss from 2015 on,I wonder if he may have also had an undisclosed illness.

It's possible there may have been some other factor contributing to the weight loss, but I do believe that pain med addiction can cause that as well. I think the desire or appetite for food goes away at a certain point - the effect of increasing the dosage. Yes, just heartbreaking that he finally agreed to seek help - or maybe he knew it was too late at that point.

Yes, his cook said in an interview that he wasn't eating well.Some of the things he said during the P&M tour seemed almost like a cry for help in hindsight.Very sad to hear.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I just think he knew. He was a smart guy, and he only let in those that he wanted to. Seems he confided in his Sister and just a few very close friends. As Susannah said, he really could not show weakness or vulnerability to anyone. He would not have wanted the public to know he needed rehabilitation due to pain med addiction. Just hearbreaking though, because he could have been treated for it - if that was the only reason for his decline.

That's true.I think he most likely was afraid of it getting out to the media,as well as fans and was very careful who he confided in.It is very heartbreaking.From what they have said,he had agreed to get help too.With the weight loss from 2015 on,I wonder if he may have also had an undisclosed illness.

I believe if Prince could have lived a long healthy life he would have. Which tells me it was something terminal that couldn't be helped. Time has away of revealing the truth.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That's true.I think he most likely was afraid of it getting out to the media,as well as fans and was very careful who he confided in.It is very heartbreaking.From what they have said,he had agreed to get help too.With the weight loss from 2015 on,I wonder if he may have also had an undisclosed illness.

I believe if Prince could have lived a long healthy life he would have. Which tells me it was something terminal that couldn't be helped. Time has away of revealing the truth.

I think it's quite possible.He didn't look well from 2015 on and was becoming very frail.I also believe that he would have wanted to live as long as he could and he still had many things in the works from what some close to him have said.

[Edited 3/25/18 7:07am]

pinkcashmere23 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I believe if Prince could have lived a long healthy life he would have. Which tells me it was something terminal that couldn't be helped. Time has away of revealing the truth.

I think it's quite possible.He didn't look well from 2015 on and was becoming very frail.I also believe that he would have wanted to live as long as he could and he still had many things in the works from what some close to him have said.

[Edited 3/25/18 7:07am]

I think in an addiction situation, body weight declines while dosage increases, which then becomes too much for the body to handle. Most meds, especially strong ones, are prescribed with a specific dosage amount. That amount is often exceeded when the addiction becomes out of control. From what I read, Fentanyl is so strong that when taken in too high a dosage it will cause the body to "forget" to breathe. It is much stronger than Heroine, which I believe is still the number one cause of drug overdose - allthough, it seems pain meds are coming close.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I think it's quite possible.He didn't look well from 2015 on and was becoming very frail.I also believe that he would have wanted to live as long as he could and he still had many things in the works from what some close to him have said.

[Edited 3/25/18 7:07am]

I think in an addiction situation, body weight declines while dosage increases, which then becomes too much for the body to handle. Most meds, especially strong ones, are prescribed with a specific dosage amount. That amount is often exceeded when the addiction becomes out of control. From what I read, Fentanyl is so strong that when taken in too high a dosage it will cause the body to "forget" to breathe. It is much stronger than Heroine, which I believe is still the number one cause of drug overdose - allthough, it seems pain meds are coming close.

That's true.The decline in his health seemed pretty rapid.He still looked healthy and had a nice weight on him through 2013.His arms and legs were still quite muscular too.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

I think in an addiction situation, body weight declines while dosage increases, which then becomes too much for the body to handle. Most meds, especially strong ones, are prescribed with a specific dosage amount. That amount is often exceeded when the addiction becomes out of control. From what I read, Fentanyl is so strong that when taken in too high a dosage it will cause the body to "forget" to breathe. It is much stronger than Heroine, which I believe is still the number one cause of drug overdose - allthough, it seems pain meds are coming close.

That's true.The decline in his health seemed pretty rapid.He still looked healthy and had a nice weight on him through 2013.His arms and legs were still quite muscular too.

It just SUCKS that these drugs have taken the lives of so many, including the amazingly talented Prince

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That's true.The decline in his health seemed pretty rapid.He still looked healthy and had a nice weight on him through 2013.His arms and legs were still quite muscular too.

It just SUCKS that these drugs have taken the lives of so many, including the amazingly talented Prince

I know! It's so tragic.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That's true.The decline in his health seemed pretty rapid.He still looked healthy and had a nice weight on him through 2013.His arms and legs were still quite muscular too.

It just SUCKS that these drugs have taken the lives of so many, including the amazingly talented Prince

I just still can't believe this happened to Prince. If someone told me this would have happened to him 3 years ago I would have slapped them.

[Edited 3/25/18 17:49pm]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

violetcrush said:

It just SUCKS that these drugs have taken the lives of so many, including the amazingly talented Prince

I just still can't believe this happened to Prince. If someone told me this would have happened to him 3 years ago I would have slapped them. But Prince was hiding a BIG devastating,and tragic secret.

Me either.I could never have imagined it.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, the last P&M performance he played many of his songs that were inspired by the women in his life - The Ballad O Dorothy Parker, Dark, I love U But I Don't Trust You. During the mix he said, "relationships....no matter what you try to do, sometimes they just don't work out. I believe we live in a civilized world now, and we can get along. I don't want to fight anymore". Right after the first few songs he said "okay, I think I've got her out of my system". Then he began the opening to Little Red Corvette and said, "well, maybe not!" Very cute. The mix of If I Was Your GF and Wait In Vain was toward the end of the show. Interestingly, when he played I love U But I Don't Trust You...after the lyric "I remember meeting you here back in the good old days" he then said "the 80's". I thought that song was inspired by the end of his first marriage, now not so sure - unless he just applied it that way for this show. The lyric "what happened to the ring I gave you?" would only have applied to Susannah in the 80's, as he had given her the diamond ring.

I noticed that comment about the 80's during I Love U But I Don't Trust You too.I had heard him say that in some of his other performances of it during the P&M shows and it is interesting that he added that line.Some have thought he was talking about Denise but it's true that he gave Susannah a ring.I had never thought of that before and that it may have been another song that was inspired by her.He was talking about getting someone out of his system during the shows at PP as well.He said some very interesting things during the P&M shows and he came across as very open and honest.I found it sweet the way he seemed to be sharing his heart with the audience.

He could also just be weaving together a story of a relationship that isn't directly about any particular woman.

.

I Love U But I Don't Trust you written in 1999 very strongly is about Mayte because it coinsides with the quote by him ending their marriage 'going back to the garden and not believing in contracts' etc he also said something to the effect of 'things/people turn out to not be what you want/thought' etc

OldFriends4Sale said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I noticed that comment about the 80's during I Love U But I Don't Trust You too.I had heard him say that in some of his other performances of it during the P&M shows and it is interesting that he added that line.Some have thought he was talking about Denise but it's true that he gave Susannah a ring.I had never thought of that before and that it may have been another song that was inspired by her.He was talking about getting someone out of his system during the shows at PP as well.He said some very interesting things during the P&M shows and he came across as very open and honest.I found it sweet the way he seemed to be sharing his heart with the audience.

He could also just be weaving together a story of a relationship that isn't directly about any particular woman.

.

I Love U But I Don't Trust you written in 1999 very strongly is about Mayte because it coinsides with the quote by him ending their marriage 'going back to the garden and not believing in contracts' etc he also said something to the effect of 'things/people turn out to not be what you want/thought' etc

True. I always thought it was originally about Mayte but with him adding the remarks about the 80's,he may have had someone else on his mind during those performances.

pinkcashmere23 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

He could also just be weaving together a story of a relationship that isn't directly about any particular woman.

.

I Love U But I Don't Trust you written in 1999 very strongly is about Mayte because it coinsides with the quote by him ending their marriage 'going back to the garden and not believing in contracts' etc he also said something to the effect of 'things/people turn out to not be what you want/thought' etc

True. I always thought it was originally about Mayte but with him adding the remarks about the 80's,he may have had someone else on his mind during those performances.

Pinkcashmere: I agree. He played several songs on the P&M tour known to be written for Susannah, or written during the time they dated - Nothing Compares 2 U, It, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, etc. Especially poignant was the last show where he intermixed If I Was Your Girlfriend and Waiting In Vain toward the end. Either he had something on his mind, or he just thought the songs mixed well together - but, he was known for meaning and message to his songs and performances.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

True. I always thought it was originally about Mayte but with him adding the remarks about the 80's,he may have had someone else on his mind during those performances.

Pinkcashmere: I agree. He played several songs on the P&M tour known to be written for Susannah, or written during the time they dated - Nothing Compares 2 U, It, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, etc. Especially poignant was the last show where he intermixed If I Was Your Girlfriend and Waiting In Vain toward the end. Either he had something on his mind, or he just thought the songs mixed well together - but, he was known for meaning and message to his songs and performances.

Yes,he played so many songs written for her,even Condition of the Heart and Forever In My Life.I heard that performance of Waiting In Vain where he mixed If I Was Your Girlfriend and it was especially tender and poignant,I agree.

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

The last date for the 1999 tour was April 10th. Dez was done at that point, and Wendy was asked to join the band - from what I have read. The main reason I think that their connection happened before the July/Aug '83 time frame is due to Susannah describing the intimate contact from him when she went to the studio in LA, and then states, "that following Summer they had started the rehearsals for PR movie and I went to visit Wendy and Lisa...."

Okay, that's it....I promise

[Edited 2/28/18 11:24am]

Dez’s last performence with Prince was May 16th.

Luvgirl: I figured out what Prince was doing in LA in March/April '83 - he was recording most of The Time's album Ice Cream Castle

From Princevault.com:

Recording process

Sessions for the album began in late March 1983, at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California (while Prince and The Time were still on the 1999 Tour), beginning with Jungle Love.

The Bird (in a studio version that was not used), Chili Sauce (under its original title, Proposition 17) and If The Kid Can't Make You Come followed in mid-April 1983.

The live version of The Bird, chosen for release was recorded live at First Avenue in Minneapolis, Minnesota in early October 1983. Ice Cream Castlesand My Drawers were the final tracks recorded for the album in mid-January 1984.

Other tracks recorded and considered for the album included My Summertime Thang, later released on The Time's fourth album Pandemonium) andCloreen Bacon Skin were recorded in late March 1983. The latter was with Morris Day on drums, but it is not believed to have been intended for the album.

Later tracks considered for the album include Chocolate (released on Pandemonium) and possibly My Love Belongs To You, both recorded in mid April 1983.

violetcrush said:

This topic is about Susannah (she is part of this particular discussion) and you did draw Mayte into the conversation soooo....

In the interest of debating this back and forth into perpetuity, I'll simply say that the glaring difference w/Susannah and Prince and Mayte and Prince is that Susannah can claim anything she wants but w/o irrefutable proof, those claims can be debated; while w/Mayte there is tangible documented proof via interviews, songs, album liner notes, letters, etc., from Prince that unequivocally show how he felt about Mayte, his "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife" (air, food, water, love of my life). Mayte is an integral part of Prince history as his first wife, Mother of his son, protégé, muse, collaborator, etc. Her presence cannot be discounted as she was paramount in so much of his work for the 10 years they were together.

NotACleverName said:

violetcrush said:

The YT video Prince & Mayte's Unromantic Shotgun Wedding" provides audio of two interviews with Mayte where she stated the baby was carried to term. The baby was most likely conceived prior to the wedding. However, I do empathize with their loss - nothing more devastating than losing a child. Other videos also provide information regarding her mocking of Prince in various forums, and again, making false statements concerning professional dance training. While some of the comments are a bit harsh, I think it does bring to light conflicting statements she has made throughout the years. Regarding her arrival at PP - she was a very young girl, and not a legal adult. Most parents would never allow that situation to occur unless money and fame are the priority. I have an 11 year old daughter - I don't care how talented I think she is - I would never put her in that situation at 16-17 yrs old. Even the Engineers working at PP at that time have stated they felt badly for her, because she was like a "deer in headlights" - just no clue about things that were happening there. Regarding the Emancipation album - it is known that Prince wrote and sequenced his music based on his feelings and life experiences. Disc 1 is very different than Disc 2. "Right Back Here In My Arms" was recorded in mid 1995, In This Bed I Scream recorded late 1995. He also re-recorded I Hate U Summer of 1995 with additional and very specific spoken word referencing someone he lost but still loved. Goodbye was also slated to be the last track on a 1995 configuration of the album, but was later replaced by The Holy River. The album's songs changed over the course of that year. The songs changed when his situation changed. Anyway....these are of course just my thoughts. We are way off of the original topic of this thread

This topic is about Susannah (she is part of this particular discussion) and you did draw Mayte into the conversation soooo.... In the interest of debating this back and forth into perpetuity, I'll simply say that the glaring difference w/Susannah and Prince and Mayte and Prince is that Susannah can claim anything she wants but w/o irrefutable proof, those claims can be debated; while w/Mayte there is tangible documented proof via interviews, songs, album liner notes, letters, etc., from Prince that unequivocally show how he felt about Mayte, his "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife" (air, food, water, love of my life). Mayte is an integral part of Prince history as his first wife, Mother of his son, protégé, muse, collaborator, etc. Her presence cannot be discounted as she was paramount in so much of his work for the 10 years they were together.

Mayte was a backup dancer for several years - prancing and gyrating around on stage in underwear and combat boots. Have ya seen those videos? Prince was with many other women during this time too - Carmen, Nona and probably dozens more. The Friend, Lover....song was written early 1996 - after Mayte became pregnant, as was "Let's Have A Baby" and "Holy River". Susannah's claims are no doubt true. She has printed proof of Prince remaining in contact with her - have you seen the card he wrote to her in 1994-95 time period? That is documented proof. Have you listened to the many intense and much more lyrically meaningful songs he wrote for her - Empty Room, Go, Big Tall Wall, Forevery In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Adore, Strange Relationship...?? Many of Prince's most beloved songs were inspired by Susannah and are favorites among his fans. I'm not stating that Prince never cared for or loved Mayte. I'm stating that I do not think she was "the love of his life". However, having a baby is a huge thing, and of course he was going to try to make that work. Also, collaborator?? Nah, that is a major stretch. She was "eye candy" for the audience - during a tumultuous and difficult time in his career. Prince needed to be in complete control. Mayte was young, inexperienced, attractive, and easy to control.

NotACleverName said:

violetcrush said:

The YT video Prince & Mayte's Unromantic Shotgun Wedding" provides audio of two interviews with Mayte where she stated the baby was carried to term. The baby was most likely conceived prior to the wedding. However, I do empathize with their loss - nothing more devastating than losing a child. Other videos also provide information regarding her mocking of Prince in various forums, and again, making false statements concerning professional dance training. While some of the comments are a bit harsh, I think it does bring to light conflicting statements she has made throughout the years. Regarding her arrival at PP - she was a very young girl, and not a legal adult. Most parents would never allow that situation to occur unless money and fame are the priority. I have an 11 year old daughter - I don't care how talented I think she is - I would never put her in that situation at 16-17 yrs old. Even the Engineers working at PP at that time have stated they felt badly for her, because she was like a "deer in headlights" - just no clue about things that were happening there. Regarding the Emancipation album - it is known that Prince wrote and sequenced his music based on his feelings and life experiences. Disc 1 is very different than Disc 2. "Right Back Here In My Arms" was recorded in mid 1995, In This Bed I Scream recorded late 1995. He also re-recorded I Hate U Summer of 1995 with additional and very specific spoken word referencing someone he lost but still loved. Goodbye was also slated to be the last track on a 1995 configuration of the album, but was later replaced by The Holy River. The album's songs changed over the course of that year. The songs changed when his situation changed. Anyway....these are of course just my thoughts. We are way off of the original topic of this thread

This topic is about Susannah (she is part of this particular discussion) and you did draw Mayte into the conversation soooo.... In the interest of debating this back and forth into perpetuity, I'll simply say that the glaring difference w/Susannah and Prince and Mayte and Prince is that Susannah can claim anything she wants but w/o irrefutable proof, those claims can be debated; while w/Mayte there is tangible documented proof via interviews, songs, album liner notes, letters, etc., from Prince that unequivocally show how he felt about Mayte, his "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife" (air, food, water, love of my life). Mayte is an integral part of Prince history as his first wife, Mother of his son, protégé, muse, collaborator, etc. Her presence cannot be discounted as she was paramount in so much of his work for the 10 years they were together.

Here is the note card w/ inside note that Prince wrote to Susannah in the mid 1990's.....wanting her to hear the progress on his Ballet (most likely Kamasutra) and telling her he loves her. The picture on the note card indicates this was most likely 1994-1995 based on his look at that time. Susannah was classicly trained in Ballet. He respected and valued her opinion in music and dance.

[Edited 4/3/18 10:25am]

[Edited 4/3/18 10:26am]

violetcrush said:

Prince assigned her as a member of the NPG citing her dancing as an integral part of the visual experience. A good portion of that gyrating and prancing around was done at the direction of Prince and the majority of her outfits were approved by Prince. Aamof, I have listened to the numerous songs that were inspired by Susannah....many of them are beautiful and a few are among my favorites; however, your statements about them as "much more meaningful lyrically" and "fan favorites" are merely opinion. Mayte inspired Prince and his creative output for 10 years. Among the many gems their union produced are the Love Symbol album/Three Chains O' Gold movie, Emancipation, VH1 Love 4 One Another special. She also inspired his philanthropic nature and they founded the Love 4 One Another charity together. And, yes, they did collaborate on Mayte's album Child of the Sun. There are numerous articles in which Prince publicly declared Mayte his soulmate, which is in and of itself, unwavering proof of his deep love for her; however, for some unknown reason you appear to know Prince's heart better than he himself did. For goodness sake, he created a wedding program that details how his and Mayte's souls are on an eternal quest to seek out the other through their various lives. I will again direct you to this active thread - http://prince.org/msg/5/452536 - wherein you will find unmistakable, tangible evidence of how very much Prince loved, adored and respected Mayte.

Fwiw, Prince always had numerous women. This is not new news. I do believe he had a strong desire to remain faithful throughout his two marriages. Unfortunately, based on reports/rumor/innuendo, he was likely unsuccessful in this endeavor. While she was not his wife, Susannah was not immune to this either. Some have speculated that the engagement was a consolation prize due to Prince firing her as the female lead in UTCM.....it's also been said he banished her from Paris during filming and shortly thereafter, moved her out of their shared home into an apartment in an effort to get some distance between them so he could resume his philandering ways. At one time I am sure he loved Susannah; however, he did not carry a torch for her throughout the 90s and Susannah certainly did not get the best of Prince.

Btw, I tell my best friend of 35 years that "I love her" when closing out phone calls, signing birthday cards, etc. It's a thing one does when they have a shared history with someone. There are many different kinds of love.

NotACleverName said:

violetcrush said:

Mayte was a backup dancer for several years - prancing and gyrating around on stage in underwear and combat boots. Have ya seen those videos? Prince was with many other women during this time too - Carmen, Nona and probably dozens more. The Friend, Lover....song was written early 1996 - after Mayte became pregnant, as was "Let's Have A Baby" and "Holy River". Susannah's claims are no doubt true. She has printed proof of Prince remaining in contact with her - have you seen the card he wrote to her in 1994-95 time period? That is documented proof. Have you listened to the many intense and much more lyrically meaningful songs he wrote for her - Empty Room, Go, Big Tall Wall, Forevery In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Adore, Strange Relationship...?? Many of Prince's most beloved songs were inspired by Susannah and are favorites among his fans. I'm not stating that Prince never cared for or loved Mayte. I'm stating that I do not think she was "the love of his life". However, having a baby is a huge thing, and of course he was going to try to make that work. Also, collaborator?? Nah, that is a major stretch. She was "eye candy" for the audience - during a tumultuous and difficult time in his career. Prince needed to be in complete control. Mayte was young, inexperienced, attractive, and easy to control.

Prince assigned her as a member of the NPG citing her dancing as an integral part of the visual experience. A good portion of that gyrating and prancing around was done at the direction of Prince and the majority of her outfits were approved by Prince. Aamof, I have listened to the numerous songs that were inspired by Susannah....many of them are beautiful and a few are among my favorites; however, your statements about them as "much more meaningful lyrically" and "fan favorites" are merely opinion. Mayte inspired Prince and his creative output for 10 years. Among the many gems their union produced are the Love Symbol album/Three Chains O' Gold movie, Emancipation, VH1 Love 4 One Another special. She also inspired his philanthropic nature and they founded the Love 4 One Another charity together. And, yes, they did collaborate on Mayte's album Child of the Sun. There are numerous articles in which Prince publicly declared Mayte his soulmate, which is in and of itself, unwavering proof of his deep love for her; however, for some unknown reason you appear to know Prince's heart better than he himself did. For goodness sake, he created a wedding program that details how his and Mayte's souls are on an eternal quest to seek out the other through their various lives. I will again direct you to this active thread - http://prince.org/msg/5/452536 - wherein you will find unmistakable, tangible evidence of how very much Prince loved, adored and respected Mayte. Fwiw, Prince always had numerous women. This is not new news. I do believe he had a strong desire to remain faithful throughout his two marriages. Unfortunately, based on reports/rumor/innuendo, he was likely unsuccessful in this endeavor. While she was not his wife, Susannah was not immune to this either. Some have speculated that the engagement was a consolation prize due to Prince firing her as the female lead in UTCM.....it's also been said he banished her from Paris during filming and shortly thereafter, moved her out of their shared home into an apartment in an effort to get some distance between them so he could resume his philandering ways. At one time I am sure he loved Susannah; however, he did not carry a torch for her throughout the 90s and Susannah certainly did not get the best of Prince. Btw, I tell my best friend of 35 years that "I love her" when closing out phone calls, signing birthday cards, etc. It's a thing one does when they have a shared history with someone. There are many different kinds of love.

The wedding was held at the New Power Generation store, according to the invitation. At the bottom it says "Peace and Be Wild". Sorry, but I don't consider that to be very deep and meaningful. Mayte has been quoted stating she could not initiate a call to Prince during their relationship and marriage - she had to wait for him to contact her. I would consider that as him having complete control over the relationship. Regarding the performing - I agree that it was most likely Prince's direction, but that would seem to indicate how he felt she was best suited based on her skill level. Cat Glover's routines show a much more collaborative and professional effort with Prince. With the exception of a few televised performances and larger shows, it is just gyrating, hip swinging, bending over and diving into the audience. From what I have read, Child Of The Sun is made up mainly of recycled songs and little investment was made toward the album in comparison to other projects during that time. Regarding Love 4 One Another - that has Prince's creation written all over it. Again, Prince was in control of everything that carried his symbol or name. He often gave credit to others in his camp when in fact he was the creator/producer. As far as the Symbol album - Prince was in a relationship with Carmen Electra at least at the beginning of this period, as recording for that record started Sept '91. From princvault.com: "Like the previous album, Diamonds And Pearls, for the most part did not contain any updated tracks from the vault; only The Flow was a re-recording, of the original track recorded in September 1990. The rest of the album's 16 songs were written and recorded between September 1991, and March 1992 at Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN USA." Of course, by the time of its release Prince had begun a relationship with Mayte, hence the decision to release The Morning Papers (in which he references their age difference) as the single instead of other songs. Also, if you consider the Come album -recorded in early-mid '93 - many of the songs are very sad. Dark and Solo especially. Matt Thorne's book states that Prince had met with David Henry Hwang (writer of the lyrics to Solo) and asked him to "write a poem about loss - the way you feel when you've lost someone, and you know they're never coming back. And that, for the rest of your life, you're going to be alone." And Prince took the words and recorded Solo, a heart-wrenchingly sad song. Interestingly, this would coincide with the year that Susannah stated Prince reached out to her for comfort, and he was very unhappy. Regarding the note to Susannah - I don't think Prince took the time to write many hand-written notes - especially in later years - otherwise there would be many more shown online by now. He also did not seem to be the type to casually write these words. It was "I love you", not just a signed "Love, P." And also asking her to please write to him. I also find it curious that he took the time during Summer of 1995 (supposedly during the time he and Mayte were so much in love) to extensively re-mix the previously recorded song I Hate U (Because I Love U) and included very specific spoken word directed toward a woman from his past whom he still loves - "now my dear all you are to me is an old flame, and when it burns out I'll be free of the mouth, the lips I used to kiss - my baby, my little nasty Miss. The one nobody could see, no one but me. Why, why did you wanna leave? Was I so hard to please? I hate you baby.....because I love you" The original version of this song had long been recorded and released on the Gold Album. I think it is very telling that he re-recorded the song with the extended lyric/spoken word. He was obviously communicating to someone. As far as Emancipation - as I mentioned in a prior post, Disc 1 and Disc 2 are very different. Also, the lyrics to Strange But True - on Rave Un 2 The Joy Fantastic 1999 - say a lot - "you were the one I gave it to, the one I fantasized for, and time away from you has taught me what I should have known. This hole I'm trying to fill with another, yeah it's grown... And over this time my life force has increased by knowing you. Whenever one door closes another one opens. Strange but true." Per Hans Martin Buff, Prince's Engineer for the record, "He became hesitant about "Strange But True", I suspect because the lyrics were so personal. By that point, I was good friends with Manuela, who was working at Paisley, so we spoke when he wasn't around and we formed an alliance to save "Strange But True". I do believe that Prince's songs described his feelings. While he did write several love songs for Mayte there were also many songs throughout the 90's that focused on the loss of someone he really loved. Who knows, for all we know that person could have been Kim Basinger - he had a pretty intense period with her in 1989, and I think any man would easily have fallen under her spell

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said: Dez’s last performence with Prince was May 16th.

Luvgirl: I figured out what Prince was doing in LA in March/April '83 - he was recording most of The Time's album Ice Cream Castle

From Princevault.com:

Recording process

Sessions for the album began in late March 1983, at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California (while Prince and The Time were still on the 1999 Tour), beginning with Jungle Love.

The Bird (in a studio version that was not used), Chili Sauce (under its original title, Proposition 17) and If The Kid Can't Make You Come followed in mid-April 1983.

The live version of The Bird, chosen for release was recorded live at First Avenue in Minneapolis, Minnesota in early October 1983. Ice Cream Castlesand My Drawers were the final tracks recorded for the album in mid-January 1984.

Other tracks recorded and considered for the album included My Summertime Thang, later released on The Time's fourth album Pandemonium) andCloreen Bacon Skin were recorded in late March 1983. The latter was with Morris Day on drums, but it is not believed to have been intended for the album.

Later tracks considered for the album include Chocolate (released on Pandemonium) and possibly My Love Belongs To You, both recorded in mid April 1983.

*

You are certainly allowed to have your own analogy of when you think SM and Prince started seeing each other Violetcrush. Personally, I just don't agree with your interpretations when Susannah Melvoin herself along with other information about her time with Prince points to the contrary. You have to take into account all that Susannah Melvoin has said, not just Prince Vault showing dates that Prince was in LA for a few days working on The Time album.

*
Susannah said it was when Wendy got the gig with Prince. That would mean Wendy was rehearsing with the band as an official band member. Dez's future with the band was still unsure at that particular time, as I verified from Dez's book. Also, take into account everything I've mentioned in my prior posts that SM herself stated. Again, (Quest Love interview starting at 37:52) Susannah told the story of meeting Prince with Vanity in Dec of 82 and then says "cut to" and pinpoints the date Prince started showing interest in her to the timeframe of Dez Dickerson's Birthday party. After telling the story of Prince plopping down next to her on the couch and asking her if she dreamt about him last night, she went on to literally say, "That's when it all started." Dez party was the weekend after the benefit concert August 3rd. Vanity left in the midst of that date in August.

*

Specifying the time with Dez's Birthday, also coincides and confirms with Wendy's statement in "The making of Purple Rain," where she said Prince first started showing interest in Susannah at the benefit concert Aug 3rd, (Ch 4, at 31%) That night was 4 days before Dez Dickerson's B-day party) A birthday is a reliable time to mark a memory. Paired with the fact that when she was asked about the songs she heard in the studio, she only mentions songs that were recorded around August or afterward. This affirms to me, that it was indeed July/August that she started to experience his work in the studio and ultimately began a relationship with Prince. Though it's clear to me it was around this time frame, I respect your opposition to the date.

*
In regards to your post to Clever, where you've mentioned Strange Relationship as a song inspired by Susannah, It's now been confirmed that Strange Relationship was inspired by Vanity. See Complete Studio Sessions by Duane Thudhal. Apart from that info Strange Relationship was recorded before Prince and Susannah started a relationship. Vanity also mentions in the un-released Blame It on Vanity, that she was laying in bed with Prince one day and she mentioned to him that they had a Strange Relationship... the next thing she knew, Prince shows up on tour with a song called Strange Relationship, gifting it to her. This was confirmed by Jill Jones as well. Yes, I know Prince dug back up the song and re-recorded it for the Sign Of The Times album in 1986 and could have dedicated the song to Susannah at that time, but Vanity was the initial inspiration behind the lyrics to Strange Relationship.

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

Luvgirl: I figured out what Prince was doing in LA in March/April '83 - he was recording most of The Time's album Ice Cream Castle

From Princevault.com:

Recording process

Sessions for the album began in late March 1983, at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California (while Prince and The Time were still on the 1999 Tour), beginning with Jungle Love.

The Bird (in a studio version that was not used), Chili Sauce (under its original title, Proposition 17) and If The Kid Can't Make You Come followed in mid-April 1983.

The live version of The Bird, chosen for release was recorded live at First Avenue in Minneapolis, Minnesota in early October 1983. Ice Cream Castlesand My Drawers were the final tracks recorded for the album in mid-January 1984.

Other tracks recorded and considered for the album included My Summertime Thang, later released on The Time's fourth album Pandemonium) andCloreen Bacon Skin were recorded in late March 1983. The latter was with Morris Day on drums, but it is not believed to have been intended for the album.

Later tracks considered for the album include Chocolate (released on Pandemonium) and possibly My Love Belongs To You, both recorded in mid April 1983.

*

You are certainly allowed to have your own analogy of when you think SM and Prince started seeing each other Violetcrush. Personally, I just don't agree with your interpretations when Susannah Melvoin herself along with other information about her time with Prince points to the contrary. You have to take into account all that Susannah Melvoin has said, not just Prince Vault showing dates that Prince was in LA for a few days working on The Time album.

*
Susannah said it was when Wendy got the gig with Prince. That would mean Wendy was rehearsing with the band as an official band member. Dez's future with the band was still unsure at that particular time, as I verified from Dez's book. Also, take into account everything I've mentioned in my prior posts that SM herself stated. Again, (Quest Love interview starting at 37:52) Susannah told the story of meeting Prince with Vanity in Dec of 82 and then says "cut to" and pinpoints the date Prince started showing interest in her to the timeframe of Dez Dickerson's Birthday party. After telling the story of Prince plopping down next to her on the couch and asking her if she dreamt about him last night, she went on to literally say, "That's when it all started." Dez party was the weekend after the benefit concert August 3rd. Vanity left in the midst of that date in August.

*

Specifying the time with Dez's Birthday, also coincides and confirms with Wendy's statement in "The making of Purple Rain," where she said Prince first started showing interest in Susannah at the benefit concert Aug 3rd, (Ch 4, at 31%) That night was 4 days before Dez Dickerson's B-day party) A birthday is a reliable time to mark a memory. Paired with the fact that when she was asked about the songs she heard in the studio, she only mentions songs that were recorded around August or afterward. This affirms to me, that it was indeed July/August that she started to experience his work in the studio and ultimately began a relationship with Prince. Though it's clear to me it was around this time frame, I respect your opposition to the date.

*
In regards to your post to Clever, where you've mentioned Strange Relationship as a song inspired by Susannah, It's now been confirmed that Strange Relationship was inspired by Vanity. See Complete Studio Sessions by Duane Thudhal. Apart from that info Strange Relationship was recorded before Prince and Susannah started a relationship. Vanity also mentions in the un-released Blame It on Vanity, that she was laying in bed with Prince one day and she mentioned to him that they had a Strange Relationship... the next thing she knew, Prince shows up on tour with a song called Strange Relationship, gifting it to her. This was confirmed by Jill Jones as well. Yes, I know Prince dug back up the song and re-recorded it for the Sign Of The Times album in 1986 and could have dedicated the song to Susannah at that time, but Vanity was the initial inspiration behind the lyrics to Strange Relationship.

I hear what you are saying with regard to Prince pursuing Susannah. I do agree that it "officially" started from the August '83 concert/Dez bday party on. However, her more detailed discussion with Toure brings to light that his interest began prior to those events. She discussed the recordings of the two PR songs, because Toure specifically asked her about the recording of the Purple Rain album. He did not ask about any of the other songs being recorded in that March/April time frame. However, I think it is likely that she was spending time in the studio with him then too. It is also very likely that no one else in the band knew anything was brewing between them. Again, she states after discussing him staying at their apartment and the intimate moment in the studio, "that following Summer everyone was convened in Minneapolis to start rehearsals for the movie, and I had come to visit W & L...." The Questlove interview was done in a much smaller amount of time, because he was talking to all of the members of the Revolution. It was clear that Susannah was giving "snippets" of information. She did not have time to give the same amount of detail. I think she used the term "cut to rehearsals for PR" after the story about first meeting Prince, because she was summarizing the details. She also stated after talking about Dez's party, "you know, there's other stories...but that's when it all started" - meaning that's when they started getting more involved. It was 1.5 hours w/ Toure vs. 15-20 min with Questlove.

Regarding Strange Relationship - yes, I know the song was oringinally recorded in very basic form during his relationship with Vanity. However, he completely re-worked it with W & L during his time with Susannah, though I think the basic meaning of this song would apply to all or most of his relationships with women However it seemed to have more specific significance to him during this period - enough to release it on SOTT, which included several other songs inspired by Susannah. In 2002, on the ONA tour in Japan he played this song, and before he started playing he stated to the audience, "we're about to go way back - 1986 back" - so it seems he related the song to that time period.

I'll tell you what, if Susannah writes her full story detailing the timeline with him, and I am mistaken, you can come back here and say "I told you so!!"

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

*

You are certainly allowed to have your own analogy of when you think SM and Prince started seeing each other Violetcrush. Personally, I just don't agree with your interpretations when Susannah Melvoin herself along with other information about her time with Prince points to the contrary. You have to take into account all that Susannah Melvoin has said, not just Prince Vault showing dates that Prince was in LA for a few days working on The Time album.

*
Susannah said it was when Wendy got the gig with Prince. That would mean Wendy was rehearsing with the band as an official band member. Dez's future with the band was still unsure at that particular time, as I verified from Dez's book. Also, take into account everything I've mentioned in my prior posts that SM herself stated. Again, (Quest Love interview starting at 37:52) Susannah told the story of meeting Prince with Vanity in Dec of 82 and then says "cut to" and pinpoints the date Prince started showing interest in her to the timeframe of Dez Dickerson's Birthday party. After telling the story of Prince plopping down next to her on the couch and asking her if she dreamt about him last night, she went on to literally say, "That's when it all started." Dez party was the weekend after the benefit concert August 3rd. Vanity left in the midst of that date in August.

*

Specifying the time with Dez's Birthday, also coincides and confirms with Wendy's statement in "The making of Purple Rain," where she said Prince first started showing interest in Susannah at the benefit concert Aug 3rd, (Ch 4, at 31%) That night was 4 days before Dez Dickerson's B-day party) A birthday is a reliable time to mark a memory. Paired with the fact that when she was asked about the songs she heard in the studio, she only mentions songs that were recorded around August or afterward. This affirms to me, that it was indeed July/August that she started to experience his work in the studio and ultimately began a relationship with Prince. Though it's clear to me it was around this time frame, I respect your opposition to the date.

*
In regards to your post to Clever, where you've mentioned Strange Relationship as a song inspired by Susannah, It's now been confirmed that Strange Relationship was inspired by Vanity. See Complete Studio Sessions by Duane Thudhal. Apart from that info Strange Relationship was recorded before Prince and Susannah started a relationship. Vanity also mentions in the un-released Blame It on Vanity, that she was laying in bed with Prince one day and she mentioned to him that they had a Strange Relationship... the next thing she knew, Prince shows up on tour with a song called Strange Relationship, gifting it to her. This was confirmed by Jill Jones as well. Yes, I know Prince dug back up the song and re-recorded it for the Sign Of The Times album in 1986 and could have dedicated the song to Susannah at that time, but Vanity was the initial inspiration behind the lyrics to Strange Relationship.

I hear what you are saying with regard to Prince pursuing Susannah. I do agree that it "officially" started from the August '83 concert/Dez bday party on. However, her more detailed discussion with Toure brings to light that his interest began prior to those events. She discussed the recordings of the two PR songs, because Toure specifically asked her about the recording of the Purple Rain album. He did not ask about any of the other songs being recorded in that March/April time frame. However, I think it is likely that she was spending time in the studio with him then too. It is also very likely that no one else in the band knew anything was brewing between them. Again, she states after discussing him staying at their apartment and the intimate moment in the studio, "that following Summer everyone was convened in Minneapolis to start rehearsals for the movie, and I had come to visit W & L...." The Questlove interview was done in a much smaller amount of time, because he was talking to all of the members of the Revolution. It was clear that Susannah was giving "snippets" of information. She did not have time to give the same amount of detail. I think she used the term "cut to rehearsals for PR" after the story about first meeting Prince, because she was summarizing the details. She also stated after talking about Dez's party, "you know, there's other stories...but that's when it all started" - meaning that's when they started getting more involved. It was 1.5 hours w/ Toure vs. 15-20 min with Questlove.

Regarding Strange Relationship - yes, I know the song was oringinally recorded in very basic form during his relationship with Vanity. However, he completely re-worked it with W & L during his time with Susannah, though I think the basic meaning of this song would apply to all or most of his relationships with women However it seemed to have more specific significance to him during this period - enough to release it on SOTT, which included several other songs inspired by Susannah. In 2002, on the ONA tour in Japan he played this song, and before he started playing he stated to the audience, "we're about to go way back - 1986 back" - so it seems he related the song to that time period.

I'll tell you what, if Susannah writes her full story detailing the timeline with him, and I am mistaken, you can come back here and say "I told you so!!"

*

Lol, We'll agree to disagree on the timeline, and to me, the person who actually inspired the lyrics to the song would be the one it held more significance with. I'm sure you feel that way with all the songs said to be inspired by Susannah Melvoin.... Or am I wrong? Is there a song inspired by Susannah that you feel didn't hold much significance with her as it did with another?

[Edited 4/4/18 9:06am]