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Reply #210 posted 10/27/07 9:09pm

EmbattledWarri
or

Girdle said:

EmbattledWarrior said:



nah not really, you try to extract any type of meaning out of something T.S. Eliot, Sylvia Plath or even Poe wrote, and you'll drive yourself crazy...
usually its basically whats imbedded within the poem that theirs meaning, only accessible to primal emotions.
Which for everyone is different...
Poetry that's easy to understand, is never good in my opinion, never was a fan of Dr. Seuss lol
The poetry and painting analogy is great.
In my opinion it's the art that is obscure thats the best, i'm a big fan of impressionism, i love monet, Van Gogh, Da Vinci during his blue period...
for a person to try to extract meaning out of those paintings is like squeezing juice out of a rock. Meaningless.
You'll never be able to tap into that intellectual wave length that gave the artist the impulse to create it. You can possibly feel what they're feeling...
If it makes you feel sad, than perhaps they were sad if you're confused by it, maybe they were confused etc...
Each interpretation will be different.
Poetry is like that (except for story-telling poetry, thats when the meaning is key of the story)
One of my favorite poems is called El Viaje Definitivo (The Definitive Journey) by Juan Ramon Jimenez
It goes like this (First in spanish , than i'll give you an english translation)

El Viaje Definitivo

... Y yo me iré. Y se quedarán los pájaros cantando;
y se quedará mi huerto, con su verde árbol,
y con su pozo blanco.
Todas las tardes, el cielo será azul y plácido;
y tocarán, como esta tarde están tocando,
las campanas del campanario.
Se morirán aquellos que me amaron;
y el pueblo se hará nuevo cada año.
Y yo me iré; y estaré solo, sin hogar, sin árbol
Verde, sin pozo blanco,
Sin cielo azul y plácido...

"The Definitive Journey"

..and I will leave. But the birds will stay, singing:
and my garden will stay, with it's green tree, with its water well.

Many afternoons the sky will be calm and blue,
and the bells in the belfry will chime, as they are chiming this very afternoon.

The people who have loved me will pass away,
and the town will burst anew every year,
and in the secret corners of my flowery garden
my spirit will wander,
nostalgic.


I've taken alot of english/poetry classes that have tried to dissect and examine that short simple poem..., and their conclusions don't even scratch the surface of the true meaning, which is something indescribable...
I've felt it, but i can't find the proper words other than the poem itself to explain it...
An attempt to describe it and analyze is futile...
either you feel it or you don't.
In fact actually trying to explain it goes against the nature of the poem itself
It wasn't written to be decoded,
It was written to express something that isn't easily expressable
For the most part, I agree with you. But all art can be experienced in many layers.
I agree that the first reaction...the one that connects with the soul and not the intellect is best.
And in the best art...any art, you will have this connection.

This doesn't discount the other layers, though. Learning what an artist's intentions are or what he/she was going through at the time, offers insight and can make even the first reaction richer by adding to the layers of understanding and appreciation.

Understanding the world the artist lived in at the time, helps to put you closer to his/her experience/mindset when creating the piece. It's kind of like we build appreciation for people.

I think aiming to be intentionally abstract and ambiguous is actually as limiting as aiming for absolute clarity. Do what feels right...whatever it is.

I also agree about dissecting art. Sometimes we do it for fun, and sometimes it is that, other times it ruins the piece.

The true essence of a piece...the things that may never have words...not even from it's creator...
That's most important. I agree with you. It transcends all barriers. Intellectual, language, race, gender etc...

every art is like philosophy, obscure stuff than makes no sense half of the time, and when it is something that makes sense, its usually never what you think.
So you are kind of right, it is sort of a limbo thing, Your in control and then your not...
you try to control it, the work ends up sucking
you lose too much control its an unintelligable mess.
It's about balancing both extremes...
ahhh Tao...
So yah i think we're at an accord when it comes that
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #211 posted 10/27/07 9:19pm

Girdle

avatar

EmbattledWarrior said:

Girdle said:

I think the Jesus-Mary story was done.

The other, though interesting, has a flaw.
If he's a sacrificial lamb and he came knowing that...and was then sacrificed, doesn't that mean he succeeded. Wouldn't failing be him backing out? Especially since, he easily could have.

yah i'm trying to make sense of it...
Because depending on which version of the story you hear you get a different outcome, i'm thinking about taking out the whole sacrifical lamb thing out,
because that notion was added to hide the fact that he failed...
so he was brought back so he could finish the job... or whatever...
that might work better...
Take out the lamb and it's a different character all together...but then it is fiction, so have fun. If you trying to base it on historical and biblical refs, then be prepared to scratch out all the early references to this lamb...even in your Torah.

Looks like you really want a first class ticket to that ring.
A gift link for you They're flame retardant. Tell them you're a big kid.
I am not my Girdle.
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Reply #212 posted 10/27/07 9:20pm

obsessed

EmbattledWarrior said:

obsessed said:



All I know is that our poetries are complete opposite styles...
we're most definitely in parallel universes.... lol
But that's what makes the world go round...

cool

Thats like saying my Tao is different than your tao?
Poetry is poetry
Their are no styles...
If you try to explain poetry, you're wrong...
You criticize it you're wrong,
poetry is eternal meaningful and meaningless words...
Its to be felt , not to be understood


I disagree with that..there are definitely styles, just like
there are styles of painting.....the impressionists and the realists,
for example.

My poetry is fairly simple, to the point...yours is more complex....but
in the end, it is the feeling that counts. I never said anything
about it being understood.
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Reply #213 posted 10/27/07 9:29pm

obsessed

And by the way, this is one of my favorite Dr Suess books... lol



Good Night....sleep tight...sweet dreams...
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Reply #214 posted 10/27/07 9:33pm

EmbattledWarri
or

Girdle said:

EmbattledWarrior said:


yah i'm trying to make sense of it...
Because depending on which version of the story you hear you get a different outcome, i'm thinking about taking out the whole sacrifical lamb thing out,
because that notion was added to hide the fact that he failed...
so he was brought back so he could finish the job... or whatever...
that might work better...
Take out the lamb and it's a different character all together...but then it is fiction, so have fun. If you trying to base it on historical and biblical refs, then be prepared to scratch out all the early references to this lamb...even in your Torah.

Looks like you really want a first class ticket to that ring.
A gift link for you They're flame retardant. Tell them you're a big kid.

lmfao that linked cracked me up!

Yah well when it comes to the lamb, its an easy fix,
when the romans created the whole "christianity" thing (paticularly paul) that was kinda added, along with the ressurection and all that stuff...
and jesus being divine and stuff...

What im trying to do is make Jesus into like a neo-buddhist/taoist
It's still blasphemy either way...
just a fun way to spend my friday nights
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #215 posted 10/27/07 9:35pm

EmbattledWarri
or

obsessed said:

EmbattledWarrior said:


Thats like saying my Tao is different than your tao?
Poetry is poetry
Their are no styles...
If you try to explain poetry, you're wrong...
You criticize it you're wrong,
poetry is eternal meaningful and meaningless words...
Its to be felt , not to be understood


I disagree with that..there are definitely styles, just like
there are styles of painting.....the impressionists and the realists,
for example.

My poetry is fairly simple, to the point...yours is more complex....but
in the end, it is the feeling that counts. I never said anything
about it being understood.

Your're late!
me and grid already settled that muck!

And your poetry reminds me of joni mitchel's writing, especially the coffee shop one
Its simple to the eye but behind very complex...
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #216 posted 10/27/07 9:39pm

EmbattledWarri
or

But its like i said, your poetry is my poetry, as is tony's, grids, crazy sexys
we're all one of nothing,a beautiful nothing,
riding foggy words and taking them into journeys of wonderful agony
Actionless action
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #217 posted 10/27/07 9:44pm

obsessed

EmbattledWarrior said:

obsessed said:



I disagree with that..there are definitely styles, just like
there are styles of painting.....the impressionists and the realists,
for example.

My poetry is fairly simple, to the point...yours is more complex....but
in the end, it is the feeling that counts. I never said anything
about it being understood.

Your're late!
me and grid already settled that muck!

And your poetry reminds me of joni mitchel's writing, especially the coffee shop one
Its simple to the eye but behind very complex...


Well, that was between you and Girdle....this post was between you and me!

I'll take that as a compliment....

Again good night...enjoy your dreams....
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Reply #218 posted 10/27/07 9:45pm

obsessed

EmbattledWarrior said:

But its like i said, your poetry is my poetry, as is tony's, grids, crazy sexys
we're all one of nothing,a beautiful nothing,
riding foggy words and taking them into journeys of wonderful agony
Actionless action


Wonderful agony....I like that.
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Reply #219 posted 10/27/07 9:56pm

EmbattledWarri
or

obsessed said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

But its like i said, your poetry is my poetry, as is tony's, grids, crazy sexys
we're all one of nothing,a beautiful nothing,
riding foggy words and taking them into journeys of wonderful agony
Actionless action


Wonderful agony....I like that.

A l'impression mille ans que je suis noyé dans vos yeux. Vous-j'adore ma belle femme. Venez me sauvent avant que les étoiles vont bleues. Je serai une touche de pierres de la tour d'âmes, vous attendant.
G, night wink
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #220 posted 10/28/07 3:16pm

obsessed

EmbattledWarrior said:

obsessed said:



Wonderful agony....I like that.

A l'impression mille ans que je suis noyé dans vos yeux. Vous-j'adore ma belle femme. Venez me sauvent avant que les étoiles vont bleues. Je serai une touche de pierres de la tour d'âmes, vous attendant.
G, night wink



Awww. Cela est beau, si mon interprétation est correcte... lol
Très romantique... wink
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Reply #221 posted 10/28/07 3:23pm

emile57

mon crayon est large!

lol lol lol

(I love that line from that old 80's movie "Gotcha")

LOL
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Reply #222 posted 10/28/07 3:26pm

obsessed

emile57 said:

mon crayon est large!

lol lol lol

(I love that line from that old 80's movie "Gotcha")

LOL


Does that mean I misinterpreted? lol
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Reply #223 posted 10/28/07 4:07pm

EmbattledWarri
or

obsessed said:

EmbattledWarrior said:


A l'impression mille ans que je suis noyé dans vos yeux. Vous-j'adore ma belle femme. Venez me sauvent avant que les étoiles vont bleues. Je serai une touche de pierres de la tour d'âmes, vous attendant.
G, night wink



Awww. Cela est beau, si mon interprétation est correcte... lol
Très romantique... wink

see i can be romantic as well as morbidly complex lol lol
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #224 posted 10/28/07 4:24pm

obsessed

EmbattledWarrior said:

obsessed said:




Awww. Cela est beau, si mon interprétation est correcte... lol
Très romantique... wink

see i can be romantic as well as morbidly complex lol lol


I guess maybe you can... lol
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Reply #225 posted 10/28/07 4:40pm

tony23k

avatar

the legend* of the waterstone






t
my phone is heavy
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Reply #226 posted 10/28/07 4:56pm

obsessed

A nice addition to the thread....thank you, Tony.

cool
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Reply #227 posted 10/28/07 5:04pm

tony23k

avatar

obsessed said:

A nice addition to the thread....thank you, Tony.

cool

you're welcome..
I've been into water themes lately.
my phone is heavy
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Reply #228 posted 10/28/07 5:11pm

obsessed

tony23k said:

obsessed said:

A nice addition to the thread....thank you, Tony.

cool

you're welcome..
I've been into water themes lately.


Believe me, I've noticed that! lol

Water here
water there
water, water everywhere

lol

But that's cool....
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Reply #229 posted 10/28/07 5:18pm

tony23k

avatar

obsessed said:

tony23k said:


you're welcome..
I've been into water themes lately.


Believe me, I've noticed that! lol

Water here
water there
water, water everywhere

lol

But that's cool....

Imagine your dreams are the tide...
my phone is heavy
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Reply #230 posted 10/28/07 5:19pm

tony23k

avatar

the tide goes out....
and it always comes back in.
my phone is heavy
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Reply #231 posted 10/28/07 5:25pm

obsessed

tony23k said:

the tide goes out....
and it always comes back in.


Absolutely beautiful thought, thank you,
and quite possibly it returns with more treasures....
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Reply #232 posted 10/28/07 5:33pm

EmbattledWarri
or

tony23k said:

obsessed said:



Believe me, I've noticed that! lol

Water here
water there
water, water everywhere

lol

But that's cool....

Imagine your dreams are the tide...

New England Dreams

1.
Lavender strokes behind the sea strand,
On this lonesome chilly afternoon
I watch her dreams close this semisweet day
with a swirl of amber and blue
The North Wind moves through folds of her hair,
Redolent of age old fantasies
Where i've walked alone many a midnight,
And thought a phantom caress'd me

2.
If we could be two wayward lovers,
Like the tidal moon and flaming sun,
I shall climb those White Cliffs of Dover,
then jump into oblivion.
Under the moonlight where we'll find
a thousand patterns of melodies.
Near two roads diverged by a yellow wood,
They rise and wash away the levees.

3.
i'll walk the path that millions see,
in the shadows every day.
Knowing each footstep that proceeds me,
you'll perhaps walk one day.
Two figures dance atop the twilight,
Feeling the swords edge of an autumn breeze
It's midnight blue, blue as your eyes,
Let us bask in this new england dream
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened
http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning
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Reply #233 posted 10/28/07 5:51pm

obsessed

Mmmmm, another lovely treasure....

Goodnight all...
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Reply #234 posted 10/30/07 7:11pm

Girdle

avatar

EmbattledWarrior said:

tony23k said:


Imagine your dreams are the tide...

New England Dreams

1.
Lavender strokes behind the sea strand,
On this lonesome chilly afternoon
I watch her dreams close this semisweet day
with a swirl of amber and blue
The North Wind moves through folds of her hair,
Redolent of age old fantasies
Where i've walked alone many a midnight,
And thought a phantom caress'd me

2.
If we could be two wayward lovers,
Like the tidal moon and flaming sun,
I shall climb those White Cliffs of Dover,
then jump into oblivion.
Under the moonlight where we'll find
a thousand patterns of melodies.
Near two roads diverged by a yellow wood,
They rise and wash away the levees.

3.
i'll walk the path that millions see,
in the shadows every day.
Knowing each footstep that proceeds me,
you'll perhaps walk one day.
Two figures dance atop the twilight,
Feeling the swords edge of an autumn breeze
It's midnight blue, blue as your eyes,
Let us bask in this new england dream

nice
I am not my Girdle.
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Reply #235 posted 10/30/07 7:14pm

Girdle

avatar

You're the Reason I Live


You're the reason I live

in seclusion
Each day with you is a dream

filled delusion
Oh how you hold me close

to you perception
You gaze in my eyes to love

your reflection.
You're the reason I live

in seclusion
You're the reason I give

up on love
I am not my Girdle.
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Reply #236 posted 10/31/07 1:23am

Volitan

avatar

I wrote 3 or 4 poems today. It's late so I'll post 'em tommorrow....
Maybe we can go to the movies and cry together
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Reply #237 posted 10/31/07 7:20am

tony23k

avatar

Girdle said:

You're the Reason I Live


You're the reason I live

in seclusion
Each day with you is a dream

filled delusion
Oh how you hold me close

to you perception
You gaze in my eyes to love

your reflection.
You're the reason I live

in seclusion
You're the reason I give

up on love


I love this Girdle.
nice one..
my phone is heavy
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Reply #238 posted 10/31/07 7:23am

tony23k

avatar

Orcinus Song


t
my phone is heavy
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Reply #239 posted 10/31/07 8:44am

obsessed

I always loved the sound of the Orca...one question if
you ever get back in here... lol Did you record those
sounds yourself by any chance?? Your so hooked on them.
I just thought it might be possible.

cool
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