2 different scenarios;

I've got a friend who is about tho give up on music because of other musicians' egos. They're experts in all types of music but are themselves, kind of average musicians. It's almost like a scene of people who all used to work at record stores, have an opinion about every song ever made and feel as though they can dismiss a band because it sounds like so and so.

So then there's guitar teacher guy. The guy is in his late 40's and is one of the best guitarists I've ever took lessons from but I had to stop because of his ego. The guy can play and sing, does classical, jumps into jazz and wails on the blues but his guitar heros are obsure musicians nobody has ever heard of. He seems to listen to music to inspect rather than feel and that's bizarre to me.

His method is; here's the platform of thinking I want to teach you on and here's the foundation. Then every lesson is giving more information out of context of the foundation so it becomes confusing. Then it's as though I'm paying him to confuse me and impress me with his playing abilities. He's above most players in skill but he just says if people don't know his method then they're still learning. By people, I'm referring to Hendrix (obviusly not still learning), Prince and all the funk cats I hold in high esteem as musicians.

With egos like these I wonder how anybody gets through to the average person when they can't even get out of their own huge minds.

What do you do to keep perspective, even if you do kick ass as a musician (if you do say so yourself)?

Then as part II of this question, do you surround yourself with other music snobs that think they're great or do you surround yourself with less talented people to keep your ego intact?

I think if you hang out with lesser musicians to keep your ego intact - that seems more like you're content being the best among your peers - which feeds the ego, right? I dunno.

My ego runs rampant - well beyond my actual capabilities. And it exists on two levels - the part that I gab about all the time where I am my own biggest fan and love what I do and think damn the world should pay attention to me, and then there's the ego that's more internal and I wish I was twice as good as I am. And those two constantly swap spaces.

But i always ALWAYS wonder about the musician/artist who ISN'T impressed with themselves. Well - the publicly performing musicians. If you are convinced that you're nobody - you're no good - why do you book shows? Why do you play in public? At that point it seems that these people are just bullshitting to appear much more humble than they really are.

But, you know, to each their own. I am me. I'm able to brag and deprecate myself at the same time -- good thing I wear diapers.

Humility and being aware of what you don't know, keeps you in a state of growth. True ego leads to stagnancy.
The more brilliant artists/musicians, underneath it all, are usually the most humble.

In my experience, the most egotistical musicians that I know are the most average. But, to their credit, they have the ability to convince others that they are as good as they think they are. These are the ones who tend to get the most work in my opinion.

Mong said:

Yep, case in point would be the Stones. Mic can't really sing, nor does he really play instruments. He's an egotistical maniac and very much thinks of himself as a Lord. However, he's able to carry it off somehow. Keef on the other hand, who I think is not only a master of his craft, but extremely humble, brilliant and very much a truth sayer. His ego is in check. It's all about balance. I think you need to surround yourself with both, take what you can and with your own security - measure out exactly what you need.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'm just looking for some balance in this world of music.

People with huge egos get on my nerves but the best public relations in the world are done by the people who make it themselves (Mr. Hall, for example).

Getting the most work is what it's all about so you can expose yourself to more people. The whole standing in a trenchcoat and exposing yourself is getting old.

beauhall said:

To this point, having no self-esteem and being a musician will leave you in your parents basement for the rest of your life. Having confidence and being an ego maniac are two different things.

To balance the ego with the confidence, that is what needs to happen.

Good thread. I'll think about that for a while.

I ask myself these questions and get these answers.

1. How many top 10 hits do i have.... Zero
2 How many chat forums do I have named after me ...None
3 How many Movies have I been in.... Zero never been asked either...
4 How many videos have I done.....absolutely none..
5 How many fans do I have.... My family...
6 Is there someone better than me... Always...(atleast until steve vai dies..yea right...i wish) ( not that he would die, but, that i could play half as good as him..)
7 Does anyone really care ..... No, probly not...
8 Fender sells 30,000 guitars a month, out of those people, hundreds of them must be better than me right...
9 Am I better than my teachers from the past, well, yes,,, which is how it is supposed to go, But, it should be humbling
10 Goto or watch prince play live... can I top that..... Hellz NO could I ever. shhh, no way.....

Just like someone said, the cocky ones are the ones calling themselves out as sucking...
I will say, there is a difference in having confidence in what you do, and just plain old being a Jerk
Most Jerks who say "oh that guy sucks and so does that guy and this guy."
, usually, the guys being accused of sucking are better than the guy sayin that they suck.

I had college professor that was a amazing player but a horrible teacher...
I did not let him be littleing me make me want to quit, I made it fuel my fire to come in and rip him
which never happened but, I practiced and practiced and practiced...

Never quit or give up music because of others....
Thats just silly.
[Edited 9/14/06 11:21am]

Unfortunately, most egotistical musos don't care if the world knows of them or not. If they don't have any top ten hits and such, they'll just tell you how they've got screwed around by an unscrupulous industry - blah blah.

Yeah, I know some really egotistical cats who can throw a diva fit better than Little Richard. I wasn't around, my husband told me about them and he laughs because he knows me and my mouth. The absolute worst is the musician with a "friend" in the industry. They know such and such producer or this band's bass player and the like and all they do is brag about how they hung out and did this or did that. And don't you dare, don't you even dare suggest that you'd like for you all to get together and hang out together. They'll turn into Smeagal with the ring "THE PRECIOUS, IT'S MINE!!!!!"

I just do my thing. I sing, I write my songs and I love what I do and that's it. I don't have need to act like I've been touched by God, nor do I need to compare myself with anyone else. I hate American Idol because I don't believe music should be competitive in that way. It's an art and it only cheapens it. Competition only makes the ego problem worse, I think. You just do what you do, and people either like it or not.

LQ

"throw a diva fit better than Little Richard." - LadyO

Wow, what a question.

I say if you keep taking risks and putting yourself out there and trying to grow and accomplish what you love, your ego is going to come into check real fast if your eyes and ears are open. If you are truly exploring, you will be much more aware of what you can't do and what you don't know than what you can and do.

That's not to say that the pain of this knowledge will not send your ego into fits of self-stroking and puffing up.

I eventually found my ego swings to be exhausting and embarrassing. A constant meditation practice is a powerful tool for keeping the ego in check, because I look frankly at my mind and its self-obsessions and that in itself helps the ego back off.

The ego spends so much energy pumping up itself, it's wasted energy that could be spent on the nit and grit of improving your craft. My current approach is to have a strong work ethic not based on illusions, cravings for fame, etc. To simply work without being attached to the fruits, a selfless offering of effort as best as I can manage. This approach comes as a result of my spiritual practice and studies.

But another very effective way is to have lots of artistic failures. This method has worked very well for me.

Slave2daGroove said:

I know an artist in particular who constantly puts on a facade of being a failure, when he's really a raging competitive egomaniac inside. When I caught onto his shtick, I got really angry. Here you are getting awards and shit, but whining about how you really don't know what you're doing. Bullshit. Get off of my cloud, buddy.

beauhall said:

I would MUCH rather have someone be honest about it than pretend they don't care or that they're a nobody (when behind your back, they're rabidly accumulating the accolades). I HATE that shit.

I think it's great to be open and positive and proud and free and loving of your own work! If other people can't handle the joy and get frightened off, oh well. I say, let the heart sing.

Hanging 'round lesser people to feel good yourself that seem bad to me.

But being with people that are snobs doesn't sound good to me either.

Try to find the inbetween is what I would do. A good musician that is willing (and able) to teach others.
Being an amazing good musicians doesn't mean your a good teacher. Finding a good teacher that might be not sooo great a player him or herself seems the most important to me
[Edited 9/15/06 5:28am]

Ya know... I think ego was created by clever people...

I say this because.... most people who can identify with egotisticallly charged people are in fact possibly looking for there approval....

Egotistical people are alway above and
not below and we are taught to look
up from such an early age..

Objective truth will tell you to "look at" rather than upto

Objective neediness will tell you to stroke an ego

Objective need will tell ya to do what ya gotta do...


God aint gotta an ego....
- but he sure knows how to play with'm

LadyQ said:

I forgot the "name droppers", every guitar teacher I've ever had just went on and on with the name dropping.

@ Smeagal

You are too cool (but don't let it go to your head )

guitstoopid said:

Oh, I know, I live for music. Playing, thinking, listening, learning, it's really the only thing that keeps me sane.

I had to talk my friend off the ledge, just because of these people on "the scene". I told him, "Those people will still be music critics even after you make your own scene, so rock on."

heartbeatocean said:

This is like someone hustling at a pool hall

yea, i think as a musey, we practice and practice to learn and perfect
what we are trying to do. Its like a gambling junky who finally hits the jack pot. We are always trying to get that song, that solo that snippet of killer inspiration that throws down some trax and moves people. When we think we have found it, ofcourse we want to show it off, is that egotistical or thoughtfull?

I think it takes some brass ones to post your work in a public place for all to judge... we earn the right to have confidence in what we do

Lady Q nailed it



And if they dont like it, who cares!! No one pleases everyone all the time....
A great way to keep your ego in check is with family and pets. My wife is my harshest critic. and she will my work to pieces!!!

i was thinking about this same thing today. i think a musician should always seek out better musicians than oneself to play with to better his own skills. a person should always remain humble because u don't have to look far to find a better musician than yourself. no two people have the exact same gift of music. do your thing and be happy with yourself.