Lately, I have noticed how some of u guys have been putting out some killer productions. I have a decent home studio setup but my productions don't match up to some of yours. I would like to know what you guys are using OR would recommend for a nice but reasonable home studio. First tell what u currently have, then tell what would tighten it up even more.

I primarily use: Korg Triton LE for my main keyboard. Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer Edition for sequencing. Tascam 2488 for recording. T-Racks 24 for mastering. And that's about it. I have about 8 keyboards but this is my basic setup for home.

I use four keyboards for live play. I have an assortment of other gear like modules, drum machines, and electric drums but my recording setup is very basic. How can I get those Linn drum sounds in my Triton LE?

Add these things: http://machines.hyperreal...nndrum.zip

to the sounds folder of this thing:
http://ccgi.leafdigital.p...ums233.exe


And forget about attempting to get sounds inside your harware synthesizer without no editing interface.

hey guys, I need info. help a brotha out.

I use a Mac G5 dual 2.7 running Logic Pro 7 ...my interface is a Presonus Firepod.
This system kicks ass. Logic Pro 7 has incredible sythns built in...I also use a MOTU micro lite for my keyboard controller midi interface...it's plug in and play!

My dream studio wouldn't exactly mean what but where.

I'd love to relocate back home to Tennessee one day and my toys and studio space in a cave I know of on top of a mountain in walking distance from the house I grew up in. My brothers and I still own that house. I could convert the barn or build on the property we currently own but HOW COOL WOULD IT BE TO HAVE IT ALL IN A CAVE!



I would build walk ways and decks all over it like this photo:
http://www.tropical-islan...ce%20b.jpg

But actual sound rooms would be enclosed and "accoustic-ized"





The temp in a cave is a steady 52 degrees year round, so the gear will be nice and chilled plus, I'd save a bundle in energy. Not to mention all the fresh water from the springs in that cave: http://www.bkcave.com/Tri...W_5884.jpg

well O.K. Batman. or would it be Captain Caveman?

talmuzic said:

Yes. It will be my batcave. And I will be "media-man".

Seriously, I've seen where people build homes in these things and they look and sound great. I figured, why not build a studio!

The one I grew up in and around is still owned by the Johnsons. Their daughter used to babysit me and my brothers. She now holds the deed to that land. Someone seems to die in that thing every few years. It's a wonder that me and my buddies never got seriously injured. I fell 25 feet once and cracked some ribs. My helmet broke in two. Good thing my dad insisted I wore a helmet that day! Before that, it was an inconvience. It is a MASSIVE cave. I figured if I close up the entry point with a studio, that will keep people from going in too far where the dangerous areas are.

I can see cat-walks and walk ways going in and around the first 100 yards of that thing. It's also about 4 stories tall in the mouth.

Heck the mouth of the cave gives me an idea for a sound stage. CONCERTS! YEAH!

It's probably a wildlife (bats) preserve anyway. There is another cave that I have in mind as a back up. One of these days I'll scan in all the photos I took of these caves to give you an idea of how big this cave really is.

Cave Kelly Studios. I like it!

talmuzic said:

Call me crazy but your studio is the stuff that some dream about.
I have a LinnDrum and got rid of a Linn 9000 and I'm sure you realize that they're pretty dry units. Most of the recordings that we've heard that use Linn are processed Linn. What particular sound are you looking for? Kick, snare...etc? I do have several drum machines and some sound close to the Linndrum. Maybe you can dupe a Linn with what you have if you tell me what particular sound you want to hear.

I want that signature mpls sound that has all that Linn drum kicking in it. Snare, kick, rimshot, high hat, toms, shaker...etc.

talmuzic said:

Those sounds believe it or not can be attained from an Alesis HR-16. I'm sure you are familiar with it. Oberheim DX and DMX are also substitions. You just have to be creative and patient with them. The Oberheims are closer of course because they were made around the same period but if you are patient with the Alesis you can come up with some Linn-e sounds.

Tal, your setup is good enough.

Some questions - what microphone are you using? What kind of cables? Are you taking the wav files directly into the PC or are you recording the mixdown from your 2488 into the computer? Take the wav files if possible. What is your typical eq setup? Are you using monitors or headphones? What kind of headphones.

I think a lot of your disappointment in your stuff might not be the equipment, but in how you're hearing it and/or how you're shaping it (eq) and it's placement in the aural world.

Let's take some of your songs and dissect them (I know it makes you cringe, but, I'm not talking about the song or the performances here, I'm talking about the actual sounds).

The SOUND:
Whatever effects you're using, roll them back by 50%. Whatever eq you're doing, cut it in half... (if you're typically dialing the high end up, do it less). I read this in a magazine 15 years ago and I pretty much stick to it still. In general, if you can hear the effect, you're using too much (reverb, chorus, eq in particular). (unless, of course, you intentionally want that effect to stand out as an instrument instead of just some spices on the meal).

In general, home studio people, who do their own music, tend to abuse the final effects (again, verb, eq, and chorus primarily) because it is just so cool to hear your voice doubled and spread out on a wide stereo split, that it's too difficult to NOT shower your mix with wide stereo chorus effects on everything.

Think of your song like a pizza: the drums are the dough, the bass is the tomato paste and the main accompanying instrument is the cheese. Everything else - EVERYTHING else, is toppings. Too many toppings makes for a crappy pizza. A pizza with tons of onions and two pepperonis is also a crappy pizza. But a pizza with the right amount of stuff, spread out nicely, makes for an overstuffed Beau.

The MIX:
(bear in mind, this is coming from a guitar player okay?) Start out with everything in mono. MONO. and listen to your mix. What is too loud? I'm on your second song now, and your use of the stereo spectrum is extensive - which isn't a BAD thing, but it makes it very hard to hear what is too loud in the mix. I learned this in the studio this year.

If your 2488 has a mono button, use it when mixing down. Not all the time, just pop the mix into mono occasionally to see if anything is dominating the mix in the wrong way. For instance, on your song, "Love4OneAnother", your keys are mighty loud, but it's hard to tell because they've got a huge divide on them in the stereo split... and then, the guitar solo is also on a stereo split, so, then, it's difficult to know if they're louder than the bass.

You have GOT to get a different drum machine, or, go in the opposite direction and start trying to get analog drum machine sounds (like Annie Christian, Outkast, Nine Inch Nails). Define your limitations and exploit them.

Also, in the MIX department: Imagine your music as if it was in the room with you. Where are the keys? Where is the drummer? Where is the singer? On your mixes, the keys are right next to me, behind me, beside me, under me - they're dominating your mixes, the singer is somewhere over there under a pillow in a closet, the drums are in another closet. The bass is this murky cloudy thing up on the ceiling.

What I'm saying is, before you create these elaborate mixes of 5 key parts, etc, create just your basic mix - vocals, drums, bass and ONE instrument. The main accompanying instrument, (for me, it's the rhythm guitar). Again with the mono thing at first... you want your vocal and drums to be just slightly louder than the bass and the accompanying instrument... so when you turn the volume WAY WAY down, you still hear the vocals and the drums and nothing else.

So then, bring the volume back up and start adding your other instruments QUIETER than those key parts. For example, your flute part is the greatest thing you've ever come up with, but if it's louder than everything else, that's what people are paying attention to the whole time. You have to stop force-feeding mixes to people - let them discover these parts, even if they're slightly hidden in the mix. (NOT BURIED, but not DOMINANT).

YOUR VOICE: It does not suck, so why are you burying it? If this is a song, with singing, then the singing is what makes the song. You HAVE to turn it up, pull back all those effects. Stop hiding. It will do two things: put your vocals in the mix better, and, if you're not happy with parts of your voice, it will better give you an opportunity to hear the parts you might want to change. Me, personally, I don't think you should worry about it, but it's up to you - if you think your singing isn't that great, I promise, burying it under effects and putting it deep in the mix only draws more attention to your voice.

Of course, rules were made to be broken, and anything I've cited here has been UNDONE on mainstream popular records time and time again, but, if you want to get a strong foundation on your sound, try to learn the basics in mixing before making up your own rules. That's all I'm saying.

The INSTRUMENTS:
Number one: get rid of those wide-stereo-split sounds. They're great when used alone, but when you mix them all together, it leaves no room for anything else.

To me, electric keys always sound dated, even if they came out yesterday. So again, identify the limitations and exploit them. Use the analoggingest sounds you can find instead of using keyboard sounds that try to emulate a natural guitar or piano sound. Y is a great song - if you replaced the violin with an analog hip-hop square wave tone, changed the guitars to some dirty electric buzz thing, and kill the wide stereo'd piano (replace it with a mono clav) you'd get there. Go listen to SW's "You And I" - hear that - a real piano and spaced-out synthesizers. That's what I'm reminded of when I hear your song Y.

I heard Quincy Jones say about Stevie Wonder - he was the first artist to play a synthesizer like a synth instead of trying to make it sound like violins or pianos, etc. That's what I'm talking about. AND/OR put a microphone on a real piano.

... to summarize, since i'm writing a BOOK here...

- Go easy on effects. Treat each one like hot pepper on your meal. A tiny bit is a nice zing. A lot and it's just inedible.

- Put Things In Their Place... your voice up front, all those keys need to move back.

- Keys/Drums - New drum machine sounds or accept that you have electronic drums and make them BE electric drums, ditto on the keys.

PLEASE remember - this is all my opinion; I constantly get mad when my guitar doesn't sound like a guitar amp blaring at top volume in a medium-sized bar... and then realize that my guitar ISN'T blaring through a loud amp, and there just IS no decent amp emulator out there. Okay then, listen to what's available and work with that instead of trying to be something that it's not.

o.k. Beau take a deep breath. Man what a mouthful. Thanks for the schooling dude. I know u have been through it long enough to know what u r talking about. I appreciate the breakdown critique. Artistically, when I "overuse" effects that because the effect is being used as an instrument. I don't have access to a real piano and real strings so there are times when a song is calling for authentic sounds and I do as well as my setup allows. I only wish I could use a real guitarist and orchestra on my songs but the illusion that I create with my studio is only a temporary bandaid until I can get to that next level. But thanks for ALL comments.

I hear you Tal. We're all writing with much bigger ideas in mind. I felt like your question was asking "how can you make your stuff sound more pro, less home-studio" so I was trying to point you in some directions - go listen to what Stevie was doing with synthesizers in 1971 to replace a real orchestra. That's what I'm talking about. A lot of pro engineers and producers look back at the 60s and 70s and say "okay, THAT technology is in anybody's hands now. how can we make it sound THAT good?"

Like the Beatles Sgt Peppers on a 4-track - haha the secret there is the bajillion dollar microphones, acoustically treated studios, $60,000 instruments, etc... but hey, when you simplify it, yes, it IS just on a 4-track. Which again begs the question - if they can do THAT on just 4 tracks - sound so full and stereo and complete, how can I take my 16 and come close to that?

Again - back to looking in the past. If you had a time machine and went back to 1972 with your 2488 and your keyboard, do you think Stevie Wonder would use those tools as placeholders until he got into a real studio? I'm pushing you - no - challenging you to forget about the orchestra and the big-time studio - push yourself to work within your limits. (after the studio experience, I plan to as well. I'll be payin for this CD for awhile unless somebody pops up and buys 5,000 copies tomorrow).

Try to transport yourself. In my case - I wonder - if I showed up in Prince's basement during the recording of Dirty Mind with just my MRS-1608 and my PODxt guitar effects doodad, would he say "oh, that's a great toy, but I'll stick to what I've got" or would he want to use this stuff for his next record?

What about 1977 and Marvin Gaye?

Keep recording stuff. Even if the song ain't what you thought it would be... the more time you spend working on the recorder, the better you'll become at shaping the songs. I'm still learning. Try to find friends in studios and just go watch them work on the big machines. It's no different than what you're using - the difference is that they know specifics on fine-tuning the sound. The stuff I learneed in the studio this year was more valuable than the CD itself... watching Matthew record my CD was like taking a class on studio engineering, and he was happy to share the details with me.

Best of luck man. Keep going.

Beau, thanks again for your wealth of knowledge and friendship. I appreciate the time and effort that you take to help your fellow orgers out. I see what u are saying about working within my limits but as usual I always shoot for the stars so to speak.

What I was really shooting for in this thread was for everyone to share what type of gear they use and why. Then say what would make their setup better (within reason for a home studio).

Also how to have a simplified setup and make great recordings.

oh.

um.

neverrrr miiiind.

Muziqmkr said:

I've had an hr-16 since it came out. I still use it. I can approximate linn sounds but it doesn't sound like a linn. Especially the high hats and toms.

<---- taking notes and getting ready to record between breaks from school

Thanks Beau

Go download Fruity Loops.

Then go do a search for wav +linn +samples on google. One of the first five results will have the wav files. (I'm not going to actually try it because I know that it is there.)

Take those wav files, and put them in a folder inside fruity loops - you'll have to look around in all the folders in there, but one of them is something like "drums" or "drum sounds" or whatev.

THEN, use Fruity Loops to create loops with the linn drum samples.

If you can't find the wav files, ask me, I've got them installed on every computer I have.

A real linn drum machine: $3000
Fruity Loops Demo: Free.
Linn Drum Samples: Free.

There you go.

That'll be $3000 please. I can take a check.

edit:
http://www.angelalanis.co...sounds.php
That'll be $3003.00
[Edited 12/14/05 18:49pm]

beauhall said:

And how do you do it with Garage Band?

beauhall said:

Analyze me next!! You're smart!

artist08 said:

Same thing. Just create a linn folder where your GarageBand Library is. When you open the app, they should be there.

yamomma said:

Huh? Is that English or some sorta computer mumbo jumbo? I have the downloaded Linn folder on my desktop. Where should I drag it?

I don't know about Garageband. From what I've seen, Garageband plays loops and wav files, but isn't necessarily a sample-triggering type drum machine thing.

Fruity Loops is much more of a sampler/sequencer thing, so it's no large feat to great drum loops with their interface. You could do it with Garageband, (I'm assuming GB is like acid - I could be way off) but doing it that way would require a bajillion tracks and the cutting and pasting of the linn samples everywhere forever. Seems like a major pain,

but hey, I could be way off.

Just - just go get fruity loops. Use the demo version to create your drum loops. You can't save your work, but you can create the loops and export the wav files, so, it might take a little fore-thought and planning to get every loop you're thinking of using in a project, (or at the very least, the confidence that you can go back and recreate those loops if you needed to make a minor change to them).

Fruity Loop benefits:
- individual effects on each drum sound
- reverse the sample (hello erotic citaaaay)
- semi-decent collection of default effects (verb, flange, phase, etc).
- an endless supply of tunable sounds. if it's a wav file, you can put it into fruity loops as a drum sound.

Reason is the same way, but FL is mondo cheapo. Reason is better, I guess, but I know FL.

Best of luck, children. Gotta get back to making annoying ads for the weather people.

artist08 said:

Find Your GarageBand Library Folder, then move your "Linn" Folder to it.

yamomma said:

The GB folder in the Finder? The one with the songs I did in it? I put it in there and it definitely doesn't work. I couldn't find it at all and it wouldn't open as a project, either.

good info guys, thanks.

artist08 said:

On my mac it goes: Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/GarageBand/Instrument Library/Sampler/Sampler Files/

You can also drag and drop them from the finder window onto a new track.

yamomma said:

Ok scratch that. That's what I do in Soundtrack and figured it was the same for GarageBand.

The GarageBand Help menu says to drag and drop into the library window of the application so it can write an index file. Makes scense. It also says it may or may not appear in the GB browser window depending on the file type.

I'll look into it again tomorrow.