A couple of songs....Tal, here's your new music! (Feel free to use "Surrender" in your Church).

One called "Surrender (Intro- The Lesson)", and the other one is a spiritual pop/rock song called "Surrender" (the contemporary rock/pop thing is new for me).

Go here to listen: http://www.soundclick.com..._music.htm

Let me know what you think!

Your friend,
Jason

JD - I'm not trying to pick at you here, but why does every song have to be about Jesus? If I made every single song about pottery, or sex, or sheep herding, after awhile, my library of songs would become a blur of messages, all about that one topic.

And while I wont deny that most of my songs pertain to sex, or boy-meets-girl, there are plenty that move away from it.

I'm sorry to rant at you. Is there some place that says you must make every song about this topic?

I think Jason is just very focused.


[Edited 6/2/05 12:57pm]

otan said:

Not all of them are. In fact, with these two, I am going back to the style of my first CD in 2001 that was completely a Christian CD. If you look at much of the Flashpointe music, they are not all about Christianity- mine aren't all about that either, but I like most of what I put out under my name to be Christian music. I serve Jesus and through the music, my writings, and my life, I have to try and reflect Him to everyone- even though I fall far short, I still must try.

But check out some of the Flashpointe stuff if you get a chance. Those are far less religious in nature.

Talk to you soon!

Jason

Thanks JD - you're right - I forgot about the new music stuff. My bad.

otan said:

Beau, it hurt my eyes literally to read what u said in your signature. The good part about God is that He will love us even when we don't love Him. I love u too.

Beau, I wouldn't blame God for that... This was your nephew? No offense, but maybe the parents should have kept a better eye on the child. This is why I will never have children. We would be joined at the hip. I'm way too paranoid about stuff like this happening.

great music JD. thanks my friend.

talmuzic said:

I just wrote the elders of the website I do: http://pblcoc.org/ and they said they have that precaution under control. Man that hurts too much when I saw that article.

Sorry I didn't mean to take over the thread - I added the sig when I first responded to this post, just to kind of footnote my observation about the JC message in all JD's music. I've removed the signature.

Started a conversation about it over in politics and religion, but as with any religious conversation, what's the point?

Keep making music JD. Ignore my stupid messages.

And thanks Tal. I didn't mean to hurt you (or anybody, but especially you). But then again, in this board, there are so many sigs with quotes from the bible, and nobody ever considers how that affects people who DONT feel that way... just an observation...
[Edited 6/2/05 20:00pm]

Ay man. i like the song. Catchy overall a fun-pop vibe to it.
This thread went offf topic, I dont even know what u guys were talkin' about but it seemed like the focus on the music was lost, though i shouldnt be talkin cuz I havent been on here in agez.

I liked the song and it is positive, just as JD always keeps the music. i really like that 80's synth through the song.

It's all love, Beau. I completely understand your point of view.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I feel like I'm being preached to with this tune and unlike Joshua's stuff (that has a similiar message), the music doesn't make me want to listen.

Just my

Thanks for sharing it.

Very good songs!

The lyrics are indeed very preachy. I myself prefer to write lyrics "everybody" can relate to, no matter which God/religion you believe in. I think it's more interesting to tell the people about the values of a religion, let's say, "Love for one another", rather than the fact what you actually have to believe in to be a part of it.

Let me ask a couple of you a question (not trying to be argumentative, but just sincerely wondering.....)

If Vina did songs all of the time telling people about Vishnu, Krishna, and Rama, would you all say that she was too "preachy"?

I honestly doubt that you would say anything about that. You would probably say something like..."Vina, you are deep and really finding your path in life and music". But me, since I mention Jesus, it's "preachy"?

If Anxiety from the org came in here and shared songs with the message of Lao-Tse, saying "Tao surrounds everyone and therefore everyone must listen to find enlightenment", would you say the same thing to him?

You see, my first CD in 2001 (when I finally obtained adequate equipment to make CD's) was a completely Christian CD with all mention of Jesus and Christianity. Ever since then, my next 8 CD's I tried to water down the message for the "masses" who I figured wouldn't dig it because of Jesus and God. But I refuse to water down my message anymore.

I don't like having to put disclaimers on my music saying "warning- may contain content of a religious nature". I know none of you are asking me to, but I really think that decent Christian people like myself are really getting the shaft when it comes to radio play and mainstream acceptance. I mean, 50Cent can talk about killing, raping, pimping, drinking excessively, doing drugs, and running with gangs, but I can't get acceptance when I preach a message of the Love of Jesus Christ and positivity for people?

Utterly ridiculous, in my opinion.

Once again, no offense to anyone on the thread, I'm just a bit tired of people in general today having no tolerance for anything, be it religions of all kinds, cultures of all kinds, sexuality of different kinds, etc. There isn't much tolerance and it really sucks. When I grew up, just 15 years ago, there was a "celebrate diversity" message in everything mainstream in society. Now, that message is being set on fire and peed on. For years, I accepted the way that everyone else was for the sake of peace, and I will continue to do so, but it gets a bit hard to do when others won't give you back the same respect.

Flashpointe said:

Jesus/Christianity has been tainted by a lot of people. I was raised Catholic, and saw a lot of hypocrisy all around me. I think that Christianity has been used to seperate and divide people, therefore it makes some people uncomfortable because they associate negative things with it. The whole "You're with us or against us" mentality. I mean, c'mon... Wiccans and Pagans were living in harmony with the earth, but they had to convert or else they would be tortured and killed. I understand that despite these things, some people find their way and study Christ's teachings and practice their faith with a good heart. I know you, Jason and that's why your musical message doesn't offend me.

As much as I love the Gods and Goddesses of India, I don't know if I would want to write solely about them. There are plenty of devotional songs I can learn. Am I going to start integrating chants into my music? Probably, but I don't forsee that being the case in every song. I know you don't constantly sing about Jesus, Jason... I'm just going off your example, which is something I've been reflecting upon. I will most definitely start writing more about my spiritual experiences, my awakening... I'm just not sure if I will name names, know what I mean? I prefer subtlety... maybe I'm just afraid of the same kind of funny looks. Most of Jai Uttal's music is all about the Hindu Gods and Goddesses... but you're right, it's probably considered more exotic and easily accepted... probably because people don't understand the words.

Om Namah Shivaya.

I dunno JD. The 50-Cent thing - when you turn on a hip-hop station, it's a part of that music style to have the lyrics dip into the darker aspects of life. Just like when you turn on a Gospel station, you pretty much know that the songs will contain messages about Christianity. It IS odd that there's no "higher-power" music genre that is all-inclusive.

If Vina wrote a song saying "you'll be sorry if you don't follow the message I am sharing" I would be put off just as much as if you wrote a song saying "your fate is a miserable one unless you welcome JC into your life and spread the word". Most of the time, your lyrics don't get that heavy, but they can tend to get into the "spread the word" part of the thing. But, honestly, I'm only speaking about the songs that I've listened to. Most of the time, your jams can hold my attention beyond the lyrical content. And honestly, I rarely ever process lyrics on any given song, the first time I listen to it. I am just that lame.

If any of my songs contained some sort of threat along the lines, "if you don't get jiggy, you will never know true love" or "if you ain't bumpin, your life will be filled with misery" - I'm pretty sure the response would be negative. And yet, I really feel like that's the message I'm getting from most Christian-based songs. Yes yes, there's also the "I just want to praise Him and His great works" tunes, but those are drowned out by the "Join or Perish" messages.

If ANY song says, "YOU SHOULD DO THIS:", and it ain't telling me about a new dance craze, I'm put off.

So, to re-cap. If your song does nothing but talk about how much you love your higher power and how great they are and how happy you are, hey, go on with your bad self. IF your song at any point says "and you'd better get up on this train too", I'm sorry man, it puts me off.

Does this make sense? You and I have always had an odd friendship - one of respectful disagreement for the most part. I will always say, "hey, but that's just me." I am honestly glad that you have something that gives you such a fulfillment, and I wish I had the same. (that said, i am NOT inviting people to try to convert me. Honest. just let it go.)

Much love man. Keep on keeping on.

Cool man, I understand that.

For everyone who hasn't listened, here are the lyrics of the second "Surrender" song:

When you hear the trumpets sounding around you
When you may not know which way to go
You need to call on the One who will give you
The strength and the courage, the battle's not your own

Say I surrender to Jesus

Decisions, decisions, some good and some bad ones
Some that you've chosen all by yourself
But if you would lean on God to decide your choices for you
You will get through

Say I surrender to Jesus

It's Alright




No harm intended by the lyrics. These are only to show people who might be on the fence about Jesus' love, or to remind people who are already Christians that they can always lean on Jesus during troubled times. That's all I was saying. I wasn't commanding anyone.

Yeah, but.

Try to swing the people you know, not the ones you don't know.

This is precisely the reason i don't write lyrics.

The music is jammin', though!

...The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way yall need Jesus
So here go my single dog radio needs this
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?
Well let this take away from my spins
Which will probably take away from my ends
Then I hope this take away from my sins
And bring the day that I'm dreaming about
Next time I'm in the club everybody screaming out...
-Kanye West : Jesus Walks

Im not a Christian but when I heard this was bangin my head along with him. Just like I was funkin up with U. Doesnt make me want to convert or anything but it's enjoyable for the time.

Flashpointe said:

I didn't mean to be disrespectful towards your message, I was just talking about the music and the song. I celebrate diversity every day but organized religion just doesn't work for me and when it's a theme, I just can't get past it unless the music is really dominating (more than the lyrics) which with your previous tunes I've always enjoyed.

JD, I've always been honest in my opinions here and I will continue to do so but if you are going to take things as personal attacks against your belief system, I'd rather not offend you by giving my opinion.


Much respect

Slave2daGroove said:

I understand, brother. No offense to you either. I can see how you didn't feel the music overpowering the lyrics on these- the lyrics do set the tone of these, plus, they aren't my normal funky loops like I usually do.

I do appreciate your understanding and feedback!

Your friend always,
Jason

o.k. guys...step away from the computer.....I would like to add that it is very weird that people ARE offended by "christian" songs but so not-a-word about the satanic verse found in most rock songs. The degrading of women in pop,rap,country...yada,yada,yada. I am the type of writer that does not sugar-coat or water down my christian lyrics. I wrote r&b for about 15 years and then found out that I could use the same music but glorify God instead. For me it is about true love. I am not trying to convert anybody, not really. I wouldn't expect Heaven to be a crowded place. I found that as a married man it was difficult to write songs about "secular" stuff without always having to explain my lyrics. Who are you singing about? What are you talking about? Is this a true story?.....But back in 1993 I joined a contemporary gospel band and found out something alot of musicians did not know about. Gospel artist get their groove on too. I thought it was all about the organ thang or the choir thang or the boring hymn thang. I went to a Bible Book Store and saw a whole rack of artist that I could sample first before buying and spent 3 hours listening. I was blown away and changed from that moment on. A whole new world was opened up to me. It felt like the chains of an enormous lie had been broken off of me. A lot of musicians believe it is wrong to have fun and praise God at the same time. I don't intend to preach to anyone. I write most of my songs for people who already are christian and need an encouraging word. An uplifting word. A reason to continue on through the trials of life. It seems like christians are among the most hated people around here. That's why I don't venture onto the other forums. The hate is pretty fierce. I wonder if Prince knows that a great deal of his fans STILL don't hear what he is saying to them. I have heard him loud and clear for years. I like his provacative songs also. But I digress, can we just all get along. In closing I would like to say that music without a message is pointless,IMO.

http://www.billboard.com/...modern.jsp

Tal - which of these on the billboard top 20 rock songs have lyrics about Satan? I don't know much about Mudvayne, but I'm pretty sure the rest of these songs talk about how they're misunderstood and they hate their parents. No mention of satan. The days of satan dominating the rock radio airwaves came and went in the blink of an eye.

Christian music however, by definition, is about Christianity.

By the way, this is a GREAT topic. I dont mean that in a hostile way - I think it's a good way to discuss this and clear up the misconceptions on both sides. Rock music in general does not sing praises up to satan. If anything, it pretty much is just kids, (or grownups pretending to be kids) griping about their lives and wanting to make out. Even Led Zeppelin didn't throw satanic lyrics in every song - only MAYBE two or three. The rest were all about "man I sure want that chick over there". (I believe I'm paraphrasing there)

And the reason the Christianity songs are offensive to me is because I'm not a Christian.

And not ALL Christian songs do that to me:
- Switchfoot's "Meant To Live" is a fantastic song from a Christian band that doesn't pound me in the face with a cross screaming "the power of Christ compels you". Their followup - "Dare you to move" was pretty awesome too.
- Live's "Lightning Crashes" - another great song by a Christian band - the music, the message that transends the typical "God will hate you if you don't love Jesus".
- Just about ANYTHING from U2. "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" for instance.

So there. The music as a genre doesn't entirely offend me -- I realize I've just cited ROCK bands that sing Christian songs, versus a Christian band that sings Rock songs, but maybe that's the difference.

Now you know I don't hate you, JD, or any other musician or orger period. I would say, if there were a word to describe eye-rolling, "here-we-go-again"-ing, that would be a more appropriate word to use to describe the miniscule population of outspoken non-Christians on this board. (lessee, there's me, Slave, PaisleyPark, and, I think maybe that's it? who else has said they're not on the ship?)

This is just one of those areas that we disagree, and agree to disagree. It's no different than if somebody started writing songs about the glory of Republicans and George Bush. I'm sorry, but I would have to tell that person that I disagree with them. AND, to add, if it was ALL that they wrote about, they would also get the eye-roll-here-we-go-again reaction from me.

Music without a message is entertainment man. And entertainment has a huge place today, when there's families with spouses on the other side of the planet stuck in a war, poverty, misery. Sometimes you don't need a message, you just need to dance. That's what my music is about. Rarely do I put a message in my song; most of the time, it's "fer crying out loud, laugh at yourself sometimes dude" (oh face, superhot ladycop, can I get some lovin, etc).


Oh, I'd have to say it's pretty clear that I've heard what he's saying, but you and I have heard different songs, or heard them differently. What's the christian message in Irresistable Bitch, or Sexy MF, or Gett Off? Erotic City? Those are my favotire songs. I'm pretty sure I picked up those messages loud and clear.

I understand your perspective, and I am not knocking it. Praise Him for the rest of your life if you choose. Just, understand that your music is not for everybody, so, when somebody steps up and says, "hey wow, these lyrics are not for me at all" - just nod and let it go. When my aunt said my songs were nothing more than screaming and filth, I nodded and thought, "exactly!"

I'm still waiting to hear those new recordings, by the way.

I think by Satanic verse, Tal meant lyrics about "sinning", which (along with Satan) is a Christian concept. We all know the difference between right and wrong, Christians just have very specific names for those things. It's funny how any religion that has to do with Jesus automatically considers anything that isn't like them Satanic. I told my father I was going to a "different" church and he said "You're not worshiping Satan, are you?" Nope, I was going to the Krishna Temple... My dad doesn't even go to church and has been a major alcoholic and compulsive gambler for years.

Do atheists write songs about their point of view? Agnostics?

Do I hear what Prince has been saying to me for years? What, is he a religious authority? Yeah, I used to roll my eyes when I would hear him mention Jesus. Then I would make excuses for him and say well, he's just choosing the most widely used term for that energy to reach as many people as possible. I always hoped he had a more worldly personal definition of spirituality.

Diversity.

This is what it is all about. There should be separate identities among the masses, or else we would be easily controlled and manipulated by the ruling few who would dictate the way that we would all think and live. Why do you think I even proposed such an idea as the NFO? Because even as a Christian with solid, focused beliefs, I still understand the need for diverse yet communal groups where the people have control and not any certain individual. In the beginning of my career in social work, I was trained to organize within the structure of a “non-profit corporation”, and there were differences among us because of that structure, but I learned something new about communities and I decided to go with community over corporation. What I learned more is trust among friends. I admit, I didn't release any trust at first, because I was always on the defensive, thinking that no one would give me recognition for my creations. But, everyone gave me recognition and were extremely nice to me, and continue to do so to this day. Trust and love are the keys to any community's existence and continuation.

This is why I feel the way that I do in regards to my expression of Christian teachings and music. I am not trying to convert anyone. That is not the goal. The goal is to share the message. I welcome anyone to share their message. If you cannot express the emotion that you wish to tell people, then it bottles up in you and becomes self-destructive. This is why I do believe that people with negative thoughts should have the rights to express them in art so that they will not make those feelings manifest in actual real violence against others (example- NWA, Spice-1, Compton's Most Wanted, and so many other “gangster rappers”, some heavy metal and others). There is a line though. I believe that there is a common public ethic that should be based on decency. Note that I say “public”, and by that I mean anything owned by the collective public, not private individuals. By “decency”, I mean no explicit sex, violence, remarks of hate, and anything of the like. There are ways to get your point across without offending the general public. Which is why I believe that the airwaves are out of control. They will give access to artists like Eminem, 50 Cent, C-Murder, Mike Jones, etc, but they won't give the T.D. Jakes band and choir any airtime. When is the last time you heard a Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan song on the air? You don't hear it. That is what Tal means when he says that radio is “secular or satanic, etc”. Positive messages like Vina's, mine, Nusrat's, TD's, etc, we all get thrown aside and the “bling-crunk, everybody get drunk” stuff gets first priority. Why? Because it's about what sells and money. That is soooo wrong. The airwaves were meant to be about artists having free access to the air (within censorship guidelines), not about who has the most money or what sells. There is a place for explicit expressions, but the public airwaves is not one of them. Let me make this perfectly clear- I am not being a hypocrite here, I will be the first to say that anything funded with the public's money should not be inclusive of music with overt religious messages (like my ”Surrender” song) because that violates the Church-State rules. But, things of explicit nature like 50 Cent shouldn't be allowed on the public airwaves either. If a private company wants to broadcast or promote something via the internet, that's fine and dandy- it's a completely different business sector. But in public, it should either be all or none.

This is why the NFO is even more unique. That is why alternative radio stations are unique. There isn't any money involved, and most music is included and accepted. Many small radio stations have 2 hour blocks of different music, like a 2 hour Reggae block, a 2 hour Christian block, a 2 hour Rock block, etc. The key is to offer as many people as you can the opportunity to have their art heard. We aren't trying to convert anyone. Those who are trying to convert people obviously think too highly of themselves and also underestimate the power of the Creator. God alone has the power to convert souls, not man. Man cannot change God's will. God's will is not for us all as mere humans to be some big united world, singing praise to one religion, one music, one government, one race, etc. God wants us to be different, or else he wouldn't have made us all unique with different minds and body chemistry. God does want us to have respect and love for one another, and that is a universal trait among believers and non-believers alike. When you become alike, you surrender power to other human beings, and that is dangerous to your existence. Diversity with love for one another is the key to successful communities.

Jason, you're sooooo right on! I was raised Catholic, and I always felt it was wrong to put down other religions. Like, is it their fault they were born in a different country and raised with different beliefs? I've always felt that there is one universal energy force and we just identify it in different ways.


...And I LOOOOOVE Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

I agree with what you're saying Jason. Just remember, most radio stations are private corporations. And you will never hear 50-Cent on any public broadcasting station, unless it's on All Things Considered, to discuss the decline of the western civilization.

Also - anyone and everyone can and does have an opportunity to have their voice heard on the radio, most of the time on public radio. Here in Atlanta, there are two or three public radio stations that would air your songs if you followed the proper channels, and then hounded them until they played your song. (college radio, community radio, etc).

But since most mainstream radio stations run on money, they do need to consider if their target audience will want to hear the song. You wont hear 50-Cent on the classic rock station, you wont hear T.D. Jakes on the Pop Song station, and you wont hear John Cougar on the R&B station.

I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to point out a few things there.

WOW. This is a deep thread. Makes a lot of those threads over at General Discussion seem so childish...