How many times do you go to write and compose a piece of music and then get caught up on the technological side of it? I think todays technology somewhat puts a damper on the creative flow in composition. Do any here got through this same thing?

For instance, yesterday I was writing this song for a singer who asked me to produce for her. I started out with a slamming drum and bass track, however, the drum track was in wave format and the bass track was in midi. So I am spending the next 2 hours trying to sync the two up and contemplating how to quantanize the song as a whole recording this way. That whole process put a damper on the creativity. See, in the old days I would banged out the song in a couple of hours due to continuity. Get me?

Trust me I hear U loud and clear. Back in the day, I could stumble home in a state of euphoria, press record on my 8-track and record everything and play it thru ALL the way and even get some funky jams out of it...

Nowadays, U have 2 wait until next Tuesday 2 boot your computer up and wonder if U have enough HD space, if your soundcard fails wonder about contingency blah blah etc...

my point being is that the technological infiltration is definitely identifiable!!!

'dre

Hmm...well, there's some point to what you say, then again, I think there are also good things about technology of today.

1. Better sound quality

2. Availability of tools to create

3. The sounds you can create today are endless

4. Most tools today are easier to operate


I also disagree about computer booting, sounds card problems and so on.
Back then you had to worry about reels (most 2inch reels are 15 minutes and each costs around $200), tubes that stopped working, and you had to wait until some of the tubes will get warm enough to get the right sound. Each technology has it's own problems.

Availability is not always good, because it's also available for people who think they have talent, but it's also available for people with enough talent, but no money.

Once you had to set up a whole studio just to record a tune, these days you can do everything on the computer in a matter of minutes. and if something doesn't sound authentic enough, you can then go and replace it in the studio.


About the problems you have with drums on wave and Bass in MIDI, I don't get it. today's tools can quantise audio almost the same as MIDI, and most programs include both AUDIO and MIDI, so you can cut an album from beginning to end in one program with all the tools inside already, for recording, mixing and mastering.
[Edited 4/17/05 11:40am]

theres no such thing, i believe that it still takes talent to come up with the technology, it all balances out ya know.

SomeoneElse said:

Some were (un)lucky enough 2 have reels!

'dre

I think creativity, for me, works seperate from the technology. And since the creative level is so high it is always on. I love the fact the others view the technological side of the music as the high point. I think they do balance each other out. I just wish that I had a whole sleugh of technological people around me 24-7 so I could really turn the level up in my project. Oh well, whats an artist to do?

Technology definitely gets in the way. I have too many damn toys now. Back in the day, I had the Fostex x-15, an alesis midiverb, and that was my studio. Amp simulators weren't even around yet, so I never sweated the guitar tone so much.

NOW, I spend an hour trying to dial in the perfect ambient tube-driven amp tone, and then spend another 30 minutes looking for the perfect snare/bass drum combo that delivers just the right punch for a song that i MIGHT actually write once I get all the tones perfect.

Which is just retarded. I used to write the lyrics, have the hook and the bassline in my head and didn't give a rats head whether the final track sounded just like Prince or sounded like an a.m. radio. And THOSE songs were great, despite the tone. Now, I'm so buried under the production part, I never get around to actually CREATING the SONG itself.

Gotta get back to basics.

otan said:

YOP! It seemed like the less equipment I had, the more creative I became! When I listen to those songs now I am like, "how did I ever get that much music out of my lil' ole 4 track?" And the material was, IMO, some of the most exploritive, creative stuff I've done in a while. I feel ya Otan!

Yup. And now, with all these toys, I'm coming up derivative and uninspired. I gotta unload all this crap and get back to basics.

Oh who am I kidding! I'm about to go buy a Neve console and a big-league mic! Time to step it up a notch or four!

yep, I did much more recording with less gear as well. When I used my 4 track I would record as many as three complete compositions in one session. Now I spend all day trying to make my songs sound as good as most of the orgers around here. Most of you guys have very high fidelity in your recordings and you guys really make me work extra hard trying to keep up with your technical saavy.

otan said:

While I do agree that technology sometimes gets in the way of the creative proces, I do love the fact that high quality audio/midi recording is available at low costs nowadays. But it sure takes quite a lot of time to get everything up and running. I have to agree with Jojofran that a bunch of dedicated audio technicians would come in handy. You could just lay down the tracks and they could handle all the technological stuff. Oh sweet dreams, hehehe!

Well funky, the problem with the affordable equipment, for me at least, is the learning curve. I've got three doodads now that I'm STILL just using presets because I haven't taken the time to learn how to use them effectively.

I mean, wow, if I KNEW how to dial up the tone in 5 minutes, that would save hours of my time. You seem to be a master of the perfect sound for the song (at least, in my opinion), whereas I'm always hearing my stuff thinking, "damn, I wish I could have just "james-browned" up those drums, or "boostsied" the bass, instead of selecting "BASS: FINGER" or "DRUMKIT: FUNK2".

Sure, I've got the 12 hours to learn to do the stuff. You come watch the dynamic duo for me while I'm sitting staring at a book and a doodad!

But maybe I just answered my own dilemma. Instead of drinking and drooling on myself at night, it's time to open the books and learn about this newfangled "midi" that everybody's talking about.

I don't know,
at least for me, when i just had a guitar, i was searching more and made some cool shit up.
But
The next cool gadget I get, I believe always inspires me even more.

well, we're all different.
[Edited 4/19/05 10:02am]

Maybe there should be another question involved in this topic.
Do you consider sound production as part of your creation?

The more technology advances, the more variety of sounds can be made.
I see sound production the same as color in a painting.
Sure, you could use only 3 colors, but mixing colors together and creating new ones will add more options and open your mind to new ideas.

When you create a song, the ability to reach that specific sound that you were looking for, which you couldn't with just your simple drum machine, e.piano and guitar, allows you to to perfect your production of the song.

So basically, it's about either writing a song, or producing a song.

SomeoneElse said:

I'm willing to accept that. But on the other hand, when it comes to the fidelity of sound, well that's a whole other ball game. That is where I differ. I mean if one is overly concerned about fidelity while they are in their creative mode, that certainly dampers the continuity. There are songs that I have created that I love, but then later on, I have to consider the fidelity and equalization of the whole peice which takes up the most amount of time. Today, since the capability of being able to get a great sound by usage of technology comes in to play, I see myself remixing and replaying parts and splitting tracks, you know, the whole deal becomes longwinded. And when your project has 15 songs on it, there is also the perfectionist attitude that many musicians have. You know, always thinking you can get it better. Whew! So a lot of us often end up sitting on material that never gets the "breath of life".

For what it is worth, I grew up on Analog recording, graduated to a Roland VS workstation, and now, for the past year, have tracked with software. Different formats DO create different problems. It took me about 6 months to really fly on computer recording, but I am one who reads manuals, etc. The one thing I truly love about computer recording is that I liken it to a painting.....as in, you can kinda mix and touch it up as you go along.....like a "mixdown in progress" so to speak. Mixing always used to be such a huge ordeal. Now I just slide into it. As a kid at home, I remember trying to keep everyone's hands OFF the faders. I am glad those days are over.

As for the "two many production choices" dilema....yeah, it is there....but if you get in your mind that all your choices are slammin' (right now, the drum program Battery comes to mind), than you can pick out that snare and move on the rest of the jam. Just my opinion, but I doubt Prince worries too much about the EQ on the snare, because he knows it is gonna slam regardless.

Peace and Funk!

This is why we all need personal engineers and/or producers, right?


I know I do. I'd much rather just create and come up with the meat of the songs instead of wondering how much salt, pepper or curry I should add. I don't enjoy that part at all, especially since I suck at it.

VinaBlue said:

Yes. Each person has their own job in creating the music. As the writer, you shouldn't worry about what sounds to use. That's for the arranger to worry about.
Reaching a level where you can do all jobs by yourself takes a lot of work, and mostly experience.
When you try to come up with a finished product from the minute you start working on the project, then most chances you'll get stuck.

From my experience, best start with a sketch of vocals and one instrument (acoustic guitar or keyboards) then when you're done with the sketch, start thinking of the arrangements.

It's rare the you can hear a finished product in your mind right from the beginning, and be able to lay it down on track right away, with the right sounds and arrangements.

I think it's all about the way you look at it. Technology should primarily help you to get the results you want.

A problem arises if you have something in mind you can't achieve with the technology and knowledge available. At this point you have to decide what's more important to you, to get your ideas across or to sound up-to-date.