Hey everyone, check it out. Im sure many of you orgers out there are musicians yourselves, like me, so i have a question. Its about the technical side. I thought id come here to ask it since im already a member here and maybe theres someone out there who knows the answer.

Now, i have a PC (120Gb HDrive, 512Mb RAM), a soundcard (Audiophile 2496), Logic 5.5 (not purchased, if you know what i mean), a guitar, bass, keyboard and my voice & a mic, and a 4Track. I also have very little knowledge of certain technical things, especially things like soundcards. I have previously used Cubase, but nothing involving the recording of audio. Im still not even sure what a soundcard does. Yes folks, im Mr. Naive.

I have been able to do sequencing using MIDI on Logic, and somehow ive managed to figure out how to use samples and trigger them with MIDI (but i only sample drum hits, not loops. I just thought id mention that. Im not a regurgitator). Anyway my question is : How the hell do i record audio on this thing? Its a complete mystery. I need to know what to do, from connections to setting things up with the software itself (in Preferences i would imagine), and to monitoring and anything else that might be relevant. I just wantto record audio and hear it and edit and do whatever else is necessary to it. I feel like a painter with no brushes.

If you know the answer, or you have any information about this at all, let me know, but.....remember, i am not very technically versed. I want you to explain it to me like im from Mars, and break it down totally. Dont be shy, i wont feel patronised. Use baby talk if you have to. Please dont just give me terminology that i might not understand. And loose terms will mean nothing to me. Im not here to get an overview, as this is too vague, and it will make no practical difference to me at all.

Manuals are terrible at explaining things, so im hoping to get a proper answer from a real person. Reading a manual will only be useful in conjuntion with some real knowledge, which is what im hoping to get here. Any advice at all. I know that Logic has a help section. Unfortunately, it needs a help section itself.

Also id like to know how i can get hold of more MIDI sounds. Logic has very basic sounds and i dont want all my music to sound similar. Is there a way of incorporating other sounds into logic and using them in MIDI sequencing? Iwant to know these things but i dont want to constantly be dwelling on them. I just want to record audio asap and get on with it.

I know that this question seems very irrelevant to this website, but as a musicain im finding it hard to use what i have to just get on with making music, and i know that there are probably a lot of musicians among you. And remember, break it all down until its totally un-misunderstandable. Oh yeah before i forget, you might like to check out a song that i did with Drezone, its on his website www.drezone.ukf.net in the Music section. "Stand Stll" by Raf & The Drezone. Im Raf, and hes...well, the other one.

Again, im aware of how irrelevant this question seems, so i wont be requiring a reminder. Just some information. Thanks. And when i say im not that technically knowledgeable (at least in terms of using Logic as opposed to cubase or whatever), im am totally not kidding. I know enough to understand the basics of certain things like MIDI, but i need clear explanations as to my question.

I have all the hardware and software that i need. I just want to know what to click, what to plug in where, what settings to have, what it means, and that sort of thing.
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Manuals are terrible at explaining things, so im hoping to get a proper answer from a real person.

I hate to break this to you (and I know it's not what you asked for). But. We've all been whre you are and if you're serious about recording on the pc the only option you have is to really read that manual from a to z. Read it on the bus, on the toilet, in the doctor's waiting room, just really read it like any other book. That's the best advice I've got. And luckily, you can get manual-type books without purchasing the software.

Here's more unwanted advice: why not start out with a less complicated piece of software if you just want to record some stuff? Cubasis VST or something like that only has the features you need at this point, which makes it easier to handle. (But you'll still need to read the manual )

Good luck!

If you are using Logic, you can use your keyboard as the controller and use any sounds you want to pulling from whatever source you tell it to. Logic is not very limited at all.

Also, you can mess with that hard disk recording stuff or run an audio out of your PC to a 4, 8, 16, whaterver track recorder if you want to.


You can probably start by pulling the manual out like hectim said, and turn to the index and try to find words like "Export, Record, Publish. etc"

Dre not hookin you up?

hectim said:

I have a manual, but im not sure what version of logic its for. It may well be for my version (5.5). The point is, though, that reading it is only marginally more useful than not reading it. I simply do not get a word of it. I could read it all day but id probably go mad with frustration, and thats not fun. The only way that reading it would be remotely useful would be in conjunction with real answers. Im assuming that you know something about logic. If you do just give me simple instructions, thats all im after here. I just need results.

Also i dont want to clutter up my brain with learning about other software. I can record MIDI, and i can just about use sampled audio. Im half way there, and so theres really no point in learning something totally new, when there must be people out there who know how to set things up for recording audio, and who also know how to explain things properly. I totally get where youre coming from, but really, that manual means almost nothing to me.

yamomma said:

And how do i "pull" from a source? (whatver source means). How do i "mess with that hard disk stuff"? In other words, i dont know what you mean. Messing around with the hard disk means nothing to me. I am not versed in these things and so i need full explanations. I know youre trying o help and i appreciate it, however, i really just need simple step by step instructions, or whatever it takes for me to know whats going on. When i say i dont know how to do about recording audio, im not joking. I just want to be enlightened, and if anyone can help, please do, but i need things actually explained. Loose terms wont help me. But again thanks anyway.

Ok...

One way to do it.

Keyboard (the musical kind) goes into Midi timepiece. This is usually a rack mounted unit that receives the signal from your keyboard and transmits it to your computer and vice versa.

The Midi Timepiece connects to your computer.
http://images.misupply.co...1094O1.jpg

Audio Logic is the song authoring tool. You can click and drag notes around the matrix screen to compose OR use the keyboard (the musical kind) to be the controller and compose from there.

Audio Logic can use (pull from) the sounds that you have preset in your keyboard, so you are not limited to what is canned. For example, if you have a Roland unit that has expansion cards, each of those cards can carry something like 500 to 1500 sounds! Now after you have composed something in Logic, you can go back and audition the various sounds from your sound banks/cards to find the perfect bass, piano, whatever sound you were looking for.

After all is good and the way you like it, you can run the audio out of your computer into a recording device or from the Midi Timepiece into a mixing board seperating the tracks/instruments if you are using multiple keyboards. (Another plus by going through a timepiece) And THEN into a recording device such as an ADAT machine.

Now Hard Disk Recording means you are recording the audio onto your computer's Hard Drive and not tape. There are various software out there that can help you do that. Some of the guys here might be able to help you find something for your PC as I'm a MAC guy.

yamomma said:[quote]Ok...

One way to do it.

Thanks again for trying to help but you have to understand that what youre saying is so vague to me. i dont need to get hold of any other software or hardware. i have everything that i need. i just need to know what to click, what to plug in where, what settings to have and what they mean, and that kind of thing.

Frustrating, isn't it? The point is, recording music on your PC is not easy. You're basically doing the work of a trained sound engineer and that's a serious profession that takes a lot of skill and training. Just memorizing what button to push when like a parrot won't do you any good. You'll be dependend on finding people with the same soundcard AND operating system AND software version who can and want to answer your questions, every time you run into a problem. And they'll soon get tired (believe me, I've functioned as a sampler helpdesk for more people than I like). IMHO it really is imperative that you make an effort first to understand what you're going to be doing.

hectim said:

i had very similar problems months ago..
first of all the problem with recording audio stuff may be something concerning with your sound card (i don't know yours). i moved from a SOUND BLASTER (with no setting to do for recording) to a semi-professional LUNA II.
just to let you understand, the LUNA II has a virtual mixer in it, so to let something happen and to record something i had to set this virtual mixer inside the interface of my LUNA II software, set the INs and the OUTs, the connections to the ASIO drivers (leave that for now).
It's been a drama for me to understand the LUNA II manual, just like for you..
i asked help to friends working professionally with these things.. u could do it with DREZONE maybe..
Now, i don't know if your sound card is complex like mine, but what i suggest is to take a look to its manual and THEN go to logic..

LOGIC settings for audio are more or less these (i try to explain, cause i'm quite not able to do it):
go to AUDIO - AUDIO PREFERENCES (i got LOGIC in italian language so i'll try to translate, hoping nomenclature is the same)

check AUDIO DRIVER and AUDIO DRIVER 2.
u'll find four choices for 4 type of audio drivers.

PC AV
WAVE PLAYER
DIRECT I/O
ASIO

i know NOTHING about these drivers but what i can tell u is:
try to check one of these ones (PC AV most of all) and under DRIVER choose one of the name that appear (i think they change if you have one sound card or another) try to record something changing the driver, etc.
to record something click the R button on the AUDIO TRACK 1..

hectim said:

This is why I've always tried to buy the same equipment as my friends. So leafar, you need to talk to Drezone, and I'm sure he's busy just like my friends... We all have different equipment and therefore are going to have different answers. If you don't know the BASICS, take a class. Audio recording is a whole different world to midi. I just made the transition a few years ago. It has been so frustrating... I need a class!

So, I've been where you are man, and it sucks ass. Logic is one of the hardest programs to learn. I learn best by having someone SHOW me. I'm a visual/hands on learner. I can read the manual, but I always get confused. I need pictures. The best thing is to get someone who knows what they are doing and have them come over and give you a private lesson. TAKE NOTES!!! Because you will forget the smallest detail and you'll end up like this:



Good luck.

leafar said:

What yamomma said is very vague to me as well. It's because we don't have the same equipment/setup, etc.

In order to understand digital audio recording, you need to understand analog audio recording. There are people who know their way all over analog recording, but don't have a clue about how midi works. I learned midi first, just like you. I can tell you from experience, this stuff isn't as easy as hitting a record button on a tape deck. I wish it was. Computers make the process a lot more complicated, the tinyest thing can go wrong, or get reset and ruin your whole day.

Damn, I sound negative, huh?

LOGIC settings for audio are more or less these (i try to explain, cause i'm quite not able to do it):
go to AUDIO - AUDIO PREFERENCES (i got LOGIC in italian language so i'll try to translate, hoping nomenclature is the same)

check AUDIO DRIVER and AUDIO DRIVER 2.
u'll find four choices for 4 type of audio drivers.

PC AV
WAVE PLAYER
DIRECT I/O
ASIO

i know NOTHING about these drivers but what i can tell u is:
try to check one of these ones (PC AV most of all) and under DRIVER choose one of the name that appear (i think they change if you have one sound card or another) try to record something changing the driver, etc.
to record something click the R button on the AUDIO TRACK 1..

[/quote]

Thanks, thats just the type of advice i wanted. It wasnt much, but it was useful because for the first time i can now actually record audio. I still cant hear it but i can see level meters moving, and i know now that the connections i had are most probably correct. I checked PC AV and it has worked. I still need to hear it, edit it, and i need to just know that i have everything set up (in the software) properly. I still dont knw how to add effects or EQ or dynamics processing but i can now talk into my mic and see things happening. Well done and thanks again. This was exactly the sort of advice that i wanted.

leafar said:

Thanks, thats just the type of advice i wanted. It wasnt much, but it was useful because for the first time i can now actually record audio. I still cant hear it but i can see level meters moving, and i know now that the connections i had are most probably correct. I checked PC AV and it has worked. I still need to hear it, edit it, and i need to just know that i have everything set up (in the software) properly. I still dont knw how to add effects or EQ or dynamics processing but i can now talk into my mic and see things happening. Well done and thanks again. This was exactly the sort of advice that i wanted.[/quote]


ok good!
now..
the way u can edit, add effects and EQ or dynamics, ecc.. are something concerning LOGIC and i can help u. it's quite simple.
But first of all, the problem is u can't hear what u rec!
do u pass through a mixer before going into your sound card?
see everything concerning your sound card first.. maybe u have to put in something like a REC MODE instead of a PLAY MODE, i don't know..

DrStone said:

ok good!
now..
the way u can edit, add effects and EQ or dynamics, ecc.. are something concerning LOGIC and i can help u. it's quite simple.
But first of all, the problem is u can't hear what u rec!
do u pass through a mixer before going into your sound card?
see everything concerning your sound card first.. maybe u have to put in something like a REC MODE instead of a PLAY MODE, i don't know..[/quote]

My mic or guitar or whatever goes into a 4track tape recorder, and out of Monitor Out. It goes into the L&R inputs of my soundcard. When i put an audio track into ready i can see the level meter moving, and i can also see the level moving in the audio part of the environment, as well as output 1&2. nothing is muted, buti cant hear anything. The level also moves on the control panel of my soundcard. ive also stumbled on something called Audio Configuration, which i knw nothing about.
Ive done a sound engineering diploma, but it was a long time ago and its not easy to remember things if you dont often have the chance to put them into practise. Plus, i always need things to be repeated a lot for me to understand them. But if you explain what i need to do to hear and edit etc, ill probably understand.
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leafar said:

i think u don't need your 4 track anymore! you're going to do Hard Disk Recording now with LOGIC..
so maybe the problem is passing through your 4 track
try to connect your mic or guitar directly to the sound card (it's not exactly the thing to do, but..) at least we can see if the problem is the 4 track.

i think u don't need your 4 track anymore! you're going to do Hard Disk Recording now with LOGIC..
so maybe the problem is passing through your 4 track
try to connect your mic or guitar directly to the sound card (it's not exactly the thing to do, but..) at least we can see if the problem is the 4 track.[/quote]

Firstly i dont want to take that risk. Also, i want to be able to have my mic permanently plugged into the 4 track along with my guitar, instead of changing things all the time. But lastly, and much more importantly here, there is no problem withe signal reaching the computer and the software, and that means there is no problem with the 4 track. I can see the level meter moving, and i can even play what i record by directly opening the audio files with winamp, so the signal is definately there. I just need to hear it, etc. Anything that i could do with logic would have nothing at all to do with how the signal reaches logic, just as long as it is there, which it is. It is simply going through a 4 track, which makes no difference. Its not like the 4 track is making the signal inaudible.

leafar said:

Firstly i dont want to take that risk. Also, i want to be able to have my mic permanently plugged into the 4 track along with my guitar, instead of changing things all the time. But lastly, and much more importantly here, there is no problem withe signal reaching the computer and the software, and that means there is no problem with the 4 track. I can see the level meter moving, and i can even play what i record by directly opening the audio files with winamp, so the signal is definately there. I just need to hear it, etc. Anything that i could do with logic would have nothing at all to do with how the signal reaches logic, just as long as it is there, which it is. It is simply going through a 4 track, which makes no difference. Its not like the 4 track is making the signal inaudible.[/quote]



i was only wondering if the volume of the 4track was down!

if the problem is within logic, i'm not able anymore to help u.. i cannot imagine what's the matter..

i was only wondering if the volume of the 4track was down!

if the problem is within logic, i'm not able anymore to help u.. i cannot imagine what's the matter..[/quote]

If the volume on my 4 track was down, surely the thing to do is to turn it up, rather than risk causing damage by plugging my mic directly into my pc. However, we know that the volume on the 4 track must be up already because i can see the level meter move when i speak into the mic.
I would have thought that there is somewhere on logic where you can make adjustments so that recorded audio can be heard. I know about Preferences, but i dont know if there is anything there that will help.

leafar said:

If the volume on my 4 track was down, surely the thing to do is to turn it up, rather than risk causing damage by plugging my mic directly into my pc. However, we know that the volume on the 4 track must be up already because i can see the level meter move when i speak into the mic.
I would have thought that there is somewhere on logic where you can make adjustments so that recorded audio can be heard. I know about Preferences, but i dont know if there is anything there that will help.[/quote]


yes yes, i was joking about the volume of your 4track (didn't u see my smiling face?)
there was no need to answer me..

yes yes, i was joking about the volume of your 4track (didn't u see my smiling face?)
there was no need to answer me.. [/quote]

Oh i see, sorry. By the way ive connected the output of the soundcard to my guitar amp to see if the signal had made it that far and it has. I can hear what ive recorded, but not through my pc speakers along with any MIDI stuff. Do you know what i could do to fix that? Also i can record on Audio track 1, but then when i try to record something else on Audio track 2 it doesnt work properly. It doesnt even record. Maybe you could also explain about eq, effects etc. Sorry to be a pain, but ive wanted to know this stuff for ages.

leafar said:

Oh i see, sorry. By the way ive connected the output of the soundcard to my guitar amp to see if the signal had made it that far and it has. I can hear what ive recorded, but not through my pc speakers along with any MIDI stuff. Do you know what i could do to fix that? Also i can record on Audio track 1, but then when i try to record something else on Audio track 2 it doesnt work properly. It doesnt even record. Maybe you could also explain about eq, effects etc. Sorry to be a pain, but ive wanted to know this stuff for ages.[/quote]

the problem about recording only on track 1 in LOGIC is something i'm still working on! for now, i simply let the audio track 1 always free. i rec and then i move the recorded red brick on another track, etc, etc.. this is the best i can see about it. if there's someone able to explain US how we can REC on the other audio tracks, i'll love to listen to him, too.

i can't imagine why i can't hear from your pc speakers.. sorry..

to apply effects on an audio track, u have to open the virtual mixer window (go see under WINDOWS menu, i don't the english names for these windows) then u'll your mixer with the tracks.
on every track, you see some empty rectangles up. the first ones on the upper side are qualified to add effects (like reverb, EQ, delay, etc..) you'll find the effects of logic itself, or if you install some other plug-ins, u'll find them too. you apply an effect not just clicking on them, but u have to hold on with the click (difficult to explain it in a language that's not mine!!)

just below you'll see some other empty smaller rectangles. they're qualified to connect to the BUS track where u apply an effect (like a reverbe) u'd like to apply on more than a track. Than in every track in wich u want to listen your effect apply u connect it to this bus, without applying on EVERY track the same effect, making your processor do the double of work..

talking about samples.. i don't use MIDI anymore, once i found out VST AUDIO INSTRUMENTS.
find out the way to get some AKAI cds. (u understand me, right?)
then go on an AUDIO INSTRUMENT track, and on the empty rectangles in the bottom side, u'll find some "instruments" logic gives you. one of these (there are also synths) u'll find EXS24, that's an sampler. once u put on your akai cd-rom in your pc, it will automatically read it and u can convert it. so u'll have wonderful REAL brasses or REAL drums or ORCHESTRAL STRINGS applied on every note of your keyboard. maybe u already know what i'm talking about so..

u can also buy some VST plug.ins like SPECTRASONICS STYLUS or ATHMOSPHERE or TRILOGY, you install them and then u'll find them on the same rectangles in which u found EXS24.. and i REALLY REALLY recommend them to you! they're FANTASTIC plug-ins..

i don't what else to say..