yamomma said:

Man you are so right!

Most people dont realize how much Prince borrows from other people. Not to take anything away from his genuis becaue he always puts a original spin on things and makes them his own.

Here are a list of styles he "borrowed" off the top of my head.

Vocals - Marvin Gay - Distant Lover
Groove's - JB
Alienation/Reclusive (I'll make you liss me) marketing moves - SLY
Look - Little Richard
Guitar Moves - Jimi Hendrix

Dont get me wrong, he has fused all of these and more masterfully in to something original.
But if you borrowed this much for his music. I wouldn't put it past him to "borrow" this kinda stuff too!

Im also sure he has people who go out and gather marketing ides for him, But dont think for a minute that he didnt have to give it, the go ahead. Evrything goes thru him.
Now if he knew, where they got the idea.....who knows.....

I really didn't mean to open such a big can of worms! I think there is a difference between blatantly stealing ideas and synthesizing ideas (putting your own twist on them so they don't sound like a total rip off). The best way is when a song has a familiar sound to it, but you can't put your finger on what it sounds like.

I remember after Get Off came out, En Vogue did that "Never Gonna Get it" song which had a flute on it. Funny, now a flute is cool in R&B? I know, Confunkshun had flutes and I'm sure other have done it in the past. It's just the timing and the way... a single flute line in a sparse song. Coincidence? Did aliens control both songwriting brains at the same time?

So anywho... I just thought the baby poster was kinda funny. I wasn't accusing Prince or anyone of stealing an idea. Like Yamomma said, there was more negative response than positive to the baby being a symbol for the NFO.

IVE NEVER STOLEN A DAMN THING FROM ANYONE IN MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE INCLUDING IDEAS.

NEVER HAD TO LOOK TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD AND WHAT OTHERS WERE DOING TO FIND SOME INSPIRATION.

IF I EVER DID I WOULD MAKE SURE THEY WERE CREDITED AND RECEIVED A RIGHTFUL SHARE OF ANY PROFITS MADE.

MADONNA WAS JUST SUED FOR WHAT SAM JENNINGS HAS DONE AND WHOEVER ELSE.

THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST THIS KIND OF THING AND UNTIL PEOPLE STOP BEING SO STARSTRUCK BY A MAN WHO IS SPIRITUALLY RETARDED NOTHING WILL CHANGE.


I KNOW MY OWN EXPERIENCE - I KNOW HOW MANY HITS WERE MADE ON MY SITE - I KNOW THE TIMING OF THE WHOLE THING - AND MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE ...


I KNOW WHO DID IT.


THIS KIND OF 'IDEA TAKING' IS DONE DELIBERATELY - WITHOUT CONSCIENCE OR REMORSE - AND WITHOUT GIVING ANYTHING BACK IN RETURN.


WHEN SOMEONE TAKES UR IDEA AND PUTS A TWIST ON IT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THEIR OWN AND THEN PRESENTS THAT IDEA TO THE WORLD AS THEIR OWN IDEA AND PROFITS FROM IT - THE WHOLE BASIS OF THE PROJECT THEY EMBARK UPON IS A FALSITY - A HYPOCRISY - AND A LIE.


I AM NOT VENGEFUL BUT I DO PREFER TO MAKE MY CONTRIBUTION TO SEE THE RIGHT THING DONE BY OTHERS.



NFO - SORRY THEY RIPPED YOU OFF - WHICH INDEED THEY DID.

ATENO - SORRY U GOT RIPPED OFF - WHICH INDEED YOU DID.

RICK JAMES - SORRY PRINCE STOLE YOUR GIRL GROUP IDEA - WHICH INDEED HE DID.

SORRY TO ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN STOLEN FROM ILLEGALLY AND RECEIVED NOTHING IN RETURN.



I GUESS THE GOOD NEWS IS IN THE KNOWING THAT WE THE GIVERS - GROW SPIRITUALLY - AND THE TAKERS SPIRAL DOWNWARD INTO FURTHER SPIRITUAL DECLINE.




IM OFF TO MAKE SOME BOOTLEGS OF PRINCE MUSIC - PUT A BIT OF A TWIST ON IT - AND PRESENT IT TO THE WORLD AS MY OWN IDEAS - AND MAKE SURE HE DOESNT RECEIVE ANYTHING IN RETURN.



NO DOUBT I WILL GET A CALL FROM HIS LAWYER IN 24 HOURS.

LOVE

PB
[Edited 9/20/04 18:19pm]
[Edited 9/20/04 18:26pm]

Aiiight PB, but where do you draw the line? If I like the harpsichord in Life Can Be So Nice, and I put a harpsichord sound in my song, am I stealing from Prince? What about Bach?

I'm not trying to disrespect what you are saying, I'm just trying to understand.

By putting your own twist on something, I don't mean intentionally. I mean being influenced by something, loving a style or a sound so much that it becomes a part of you. For example, I used lots of vibebraphone in my songs. I have no idea where I got that idea. All I know is that I like it and it feels natural to me. That is what I hear in my head. That is what I feel. There are certain intervals I tend to use. Another example: once in music theory class we were studying melody and our instructor played a debussy piece. The first 5 or 6 notes were indentical to something I had written a year before! I had never heard that piece before and when I did, my ears perked up.


And the whole "everything comes from sound" concept started way before any of us were even born. I don't have the musicology cd, so I dont' know if he's directly plaguerizing, but the concept is something I read about before I saw your website. Now if/when I put that up on my site, I'm gonna quote the book I got it from, which is a book about the Hindu Goddesses.

Okay... this thread is officially scary.

VinaBlue said:

can I go start a website called " Neu Funked Ordah " ? - and make it just like the NFO ? and make money from it ? and no one will be pissed ?

why was madonna sued and why did she lose the case if this kind of thing is legal?



we are supposed to DO UNTO OTHERS AS WE WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO US.


If what Sam Jennings and Prince are saying is : " hey we saw ur ideas and thought we'd twist em and use em to make profit - so u can do the same to us " ??


come on vina.


u know as well as I do we'd be gettin sued all over the place.



I support the thoery of there being One Creative Mind that we all draw our inspiritation from - but that kind of inspiritaion comes from WITHIN - NOT FROM COPYING OTHER PEOPLE.

there's a very big difference.

I know where sam and prince got their ideas from - its obvious cuz I was freakin there!!




what I dont understand is why people find it so hard to believe that Prince and the people that work for him are NOT PERFECT.

just because he sings about love and world peace and all that blah blah doesnt mean he lives it in his own life and business dealings.

if he did he would never have insisted fan sites to be removed from the net for " misrepresentation " - and he would never campaigned against " bootlegs"..

but as long as everyone is prepared to believe the IMAGE that is presented to you of him - you wont see past it to the Truth.


man I dont sue people - and I dont complain - and when this all happened I let it slide becuz of my spiritual convictions - but when I see a thread along the same lines - I will share my experience and vent my honest truthful spiritually based view.







plato said " changes in government are brought about by changes in music " - I studied it and researched it and added things about the universe being made by sound.

prince didnt do the research - he just took it from my site.

he wouldnt even know the metaphysical theories behind it.


notice I CREDITED Plato on my site.

Prince takes all - and puts it under his OWN NAME.

this is the FUNDAMENTAL difference.

sadly - he probaby thinks its quite ok!!


when u look at his life - years of being buffered by bodyguards - living in material comfort - surrounded by yes people - and the obvious problem with his ego - it makes perfect sense that he or anyone else in a similar environment would think it quite acceptable to ..

DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.



If he was ever hoping to have his soul saved and see bright days in a heavenly life on earth - he blew it ages ago.

he will grow old and die oneday..

and mark my words - he will have regrets.










Peace and Love,

PB

If you think so and you can prove he is a thief, go and sue him.
Sorry but you are coming out a little as a paranoic kid.

7salles said:

I do think so and I can prove it - but I dont sue people.

ITS NOT MY STYLE.

You are forgiven for your perception of me.
I understand the grip false images can have on the minds of the general public.



Peace and Love,


PB.

See, it's been done before...like many other things Prince can't take sole credit for.
[Edited 9/20/04 20:25pm]

psykosoul said:

oh but you see ..


HE DOES.




xo

I understand what you're saying. I just wanna know if I can use harpsichord in my song.



Seriously though, thanks for sharing your story. No, I dont' think Prince is perfect. I just don't think that using our poster child idea is that big of a deal. We are not here to make a profit, we just want to cover costs. Besides, if people like the npg child poster, they might see ours and say "hey that's cute too!" and maybe they will buy it.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I just think we draw the line in different places.

Don't mean to bug ya about it.

sacredwarrior said:

Yes, there have been instances where Prince has taken credit for musical compositions. Something got created in a jam session and he ran with it, yes it happens. That's one of the aspects of the business. Prince wasn't the first to do it and certainly won't be the last.

But these instances of Prince ripping off the NFO? - maybe Sam did run across the NFO and share the idea, but as yomomma said, people with the job have to go out and research other ideas. Is NFO the first organization to use the image of a baby to promote an item? No. That's hardly a case of stealing.

Is Ateno the first person to dip incense in oils and attempt to market them? No, I've seen those long before I became a member of the org or NPGMC. If he had the exact same scents in mind then he probably should have kept the idea to himself until he got a patent.

Rick James wasn't the first to come up with the notion of a singing girl group. Prince may have executed the plan to do so before Rick James, but certainly you can't accuse Prince of stealing the idea. Ever heard of the Andrews Sisters? It was the early 80s, so any girl group to come out of either the Prince or Rick James camp most likely would have been scantilly-clad.

There are many cases of outright plaigerism in the music industry but don't think you are thinking logically about art being influential. Do you think Prince should run out and sue Outkast and The Roots for incorporating the Linn Drum machine and Prince-ish ideas into their music?

psykosoul said:

sacredwarrior said:

ummm.... okay.....

This has become one bitter thread.

Let's stop hindering our creativity by wondering if it's been already done by some1 else or whether some1 is gonna steal the idea. Putting our ideas out and across, especially in such an open media such as the Internet is an unquestionable risk, but it IS a powerful and revolutionary forum.

We can't exactly bitch about those who 'stole' our ideas because we didn't have the forethought to protect our ideas in the 1st place, either through legal procedures or juskeepin' your mouth shut.

But how do we know if an idea has not been done before? That in itself is a gamble but should that hinder our creativity? yes if U blatantly copied an idea it should be credited, but there ARE technical loopholes to this to wit maybe our man (or not as Warrior's et al case currently is) that CAN be jumped through.

Remember Bill Gates? The man who's about 2 create "Longhorn"? He nicked the idea and created because Apple's components where NOT patented!

However suing Outkast for using a Linn Drum machine?! STOP right now!

Concentrate on your respective art forms, creating it and if need be, protecting it.

I can't wait for the day when Prince sues my ass for being a multi-instrumentalist with a horn section and simulating oral sex on stage! (well some1 had 2 lighten this thread up!)

'dre

I'm a goin to church on this one. You don't have to read the whole thing, so I'll sum up my point by saying "There is nothing new under the sun". (The Application of your ideas is what will bring forth the fruit of your laybor. -Kelly)

Ecclesiastes Chap 1

1 The words of the Teacher, [1] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless."
3 What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.
11 There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow.

Ecclesiastes Chap 3

1 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

9 What does the worker gain from his toil?
10 I have seen the burden God has laid on men.
11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.
12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live.
13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil-this is the gift of God.
14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.
15 Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God will call the past to account.
16 And I saw something else under the sun: In the place of judgment-wickedness was there, in the place of justice-wickedness was there.
17 I thought in my heart, "God will bring to judgment both the righteous and the wicked, for there will be a time for every activity, a time for every deed."
18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals.
19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.
20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.
21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

yamomma said:

which is why I dont sue people for being so naturally uninspired that they have to look for ideas outside of themselves then call them their own by putting a simple twist on it - something much easier to do than truly diggin deep to find natural inspiration within .. however this kind of creative cheating places a man where his actions lead him - the Land of the Dead - where everything is meaningless.




in contrast to the passage - I have a life filled with meaning - and know there are many many things that have never been done before - man is but an infant on the threshold of eternity - with powers beyond his comprehension - taught to believe from birth that they are a fallacy - subdued to insist he is insignificant in the greater scheme of things..

hark ye behold the NEW - horizons not yet embraced and reached for - stars not yet realised as being the very source of US - inner worlds not yet blossomed and bloomed in to THE only reality..

there will always be dogs that need masters - and there will always be masters who refuse to keep a pet on the basis of cruelty - there will be those who give - and there will always be those who take ..

but herein the NEW WORLD - where man recognises and abides by the sacred laws of the universe - not one jot or tittle is out of place - all accounts balanced - all debt balanced and ..

" truly I say unto thee - the rich shall become poor and the poor shall become rich "

and so it is!!









Peace and Love,


PB

DreZone said:

dre -

I dont do bitter ..

I do FACT.

there's a reason why the actions of man are vastly different from the actions of Divine Man.

- he who is without conscience will claim the right to an illusion of freedom.
- he who is with conscience wil live according to universal law.
- he who is not inspired just by the simple joy of breathing will lean on his brethren to help him find stature.



Peace,

PB

sacredwarrior said:

Visiting http://www.rogers.com takes one to the website of a major Canadian corporation that provides, among other things, broadband Internet access. I suppose it's possible that Prince uses Rogers to provide Internet access at his place in Toronto, but we can definitely rule out the possibility that "rogers.com" is Prince's own domain name.

*****



cpe000347b45f45-cm014500113509.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com




sam jennings has openly admitted to visiting my site on a regular basis.



is your aim to disprove what I know to be fact ?


do I need to belittle myself by openly discussing the contents of my conversations with both him and prince in order for you to believe me ?



the point is - I dont care if no one believes me.



sadly it is becoming painfully obvious that people are more willing to defend someone they dont even know - over showing some kind of compassion and understanding for my situation.



i have not attacked anyone here personally - yet so far I have been called paranoid and bitter for simply sharing my experience in the hope that next time someone's idea is 'stolen' by sam jennings or prince - they wont be so inclined to pass it off as " OK " simply cuz the guy is famous - or whatever.






loving a man for his music is one thing - but taking up a defesnive post on his behalf when u dont even know him is ridiculous.




I understand that alliances to certain pop stars are strong - but when they come between people - and insult and offend the depth of sensitivity of my own experience - and the experiences of many others who are too afraid to speak up - it is a sad day indeed.








how can u rule out what is and what is not prince's server ?








you've no idea what I went through..


if you'd care to find out - ask prince - and watch him stare at the ceiling and whistle ..

then ask sam jennings - and watch him snake his way around it ..




sorry your sense of humanity is lacking in this instance - perhaps another day - after some thought - you will find it more appropriate to at least consider what I say to be true - than immediately jump to their defence.






the fact is I dont even care about it anymore - I only shared my exprience here cuz I saw people " feeling honoured " ????? that they have 'inspired' prince ?????



why think so little of yourselves!!!!!



and all I have recieved in return is rebukes?? for trying to help you feel more empowered??



In God's eyes none of you is less than Prince - in fact spiritually - some of you are a heck of alot more .....






The Bible states that worship of icons is a sin - and when that worship interferes with compassion and friendship - then may god help you!!




THE NATURE OF ICONIC FIGURES IS TO MAKE THE GENERAL PUBLIC FEEL LESS THAN THEM.

ICONIC FIGURES STAND IN THE WAY OF MANS DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD BY PRESENTING A VEIL.

ICONIC FIGURES ARE A VEIL - AN ILLUSION.

FALSE IMAGES ARE CREATED BY PRESENTING IMAGES OF APPARENT PERFECTION.

YOUR SOCIETY IS GOVERNED BY A MEDIA THAT USES FALSE IMAGES TO MANIPULATE THE MINDS OF SOCIETY TO CONTINUE TO MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE NOT WORTHY.

THEY LOVE IT WHEN YOU THINK CELEBRITIES ARE BETTER THAN YOU CUZ IN THAT MOMENT THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL IN THEIR ATTEMPT TO BLIND YOU TO YOUR OWN BEAUTY AND DIVINE HERITAGE - HENCE KEEPING YOU FROM FULL SPIRITUAL SELF-EMPOWERMENT.



TO PRESENT ONES FACE OR PHYSICAL APPEARANCE TO THE WORLD AND INDIVIDUATE GOD BY ISSUING A PERSONAL NAME AND PLACE ALL FOCUS ON THAT INDIVIDUAL IS AKIN TO ENSURING MAN CONTINUES TO WORSHIP MORTALITY.


WE ARE IMMORTAL - WHEN THE MORTAL ASPECT IS FOCUSSED UPON IT TAKES AWAY FROM GOD.



UPSTAGING GOD IS THE JOB OF ICONS.


THOSE OF US WHO REALISE THIS STOPPED WORSHIPPING THEM AGES AGO - WE STOPPED BELIEVING EVERYTHING THEY SAID TO BE TRUE - WE STOPPED JUDGING THEM ON FACE VALUE PERFECTION AND REALISED THEY ARE IN DESPARATE NEED OF ...



SPIRITUAL HUMILITY.



THEY HAVE SCOUTS TO FIND THEIR IDEAS FOR THEM.

THEY USE THEM WITHOUT PERMISSION.

EVIDENCE OF A THIEF IS IN HOW MUCH THEY PROTEST AGAINST BEING STOLEN FROM.

THE TRUE DEVOTEE ALLOWS THEFT - AS I DID - BUT THEY LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE AND SHARE IT WITH OTHERS TO HELP THEM BREAK THROUGH THE ILLUSION OF FALSE IMAGES.



Peace and Love 2 All of You...
Will be back when I have more free music to give away .


PB.

yamomma said:

This needs to be repeated 1000 times.

sacredwarrior said:

I'm trying to understand... I just don't.
Are you saying that because you posted something like (for example) Einstein's Theory of Relativity on your website...(something that's accessible to anyone, mind you) and Prince visited your site and was inspired by it and used the same words (which you didn't write in the first place), then that makes him a thief?

P.S. I'm not taking up for either one of you really because I don't know either one of you. I have yet to see prove anything malicious on Prince's part.
[Edited 9/21/04 18:48pm]

sacredwarrior said:

[Edited 9/22/04 11:08am]

VinaBlue and yamomma :


New Earth Embassy

* " our universe is created by soundwaves first .. "

* " music is the new politic "

* " art of mind "


Prince Marketing

* " some of the best things are created by sound "

* " musicology "

* " art of musicology "



Now picture one of the end scenes of the movie " ghost " where 'sam' punches his name into the computer and repeats it over and over to freak his enemy out.

I cant go into the personal details of my experience with prince or sam - but I know that prince has hired people in the past who present ideas to him as their own.

Sam has done this.

I sent an official warning from the Embassy urging him to desist from coming so dangerously close to plagerism. Havent had any trouble since.

I was flattered at first - until I realised how sick this is - its sad - that someone needs to boost themselves in front of Prince like that - using other people's ideas that they put their heart and soul into to.



" nothing new under the sun " ?

yes there is - every day.


There is n other Embassy for music in the World.
There has never been a political body of MUSIC ever before.

I was given tht idea from within/above - to manifest.
My site is not just a site - its an EMBASSY - its legally patented and politically approved.


When fools enter and carelessly believe they can take the message of the Embassy and distort it for their own selfish agenda - I get pissed off - and rightfully so.


Prince has been saying that if music doesnt have real instruments and real musicians its basically crap.

That is not true - he is merely saying it because that is what HE believes - but you dont go out there making blatant statements about what is good music and what is not..

you dont do that knowing full well you have used the backbone of someone else's idea and are riding on that for your marketing campaign.. its ignorant and selfish.

you dont twist things to suit your own agenda - especially someone else's deeply spiritual work.

The Embassy is WHO I AM - and Sam and anyone else who has visited that site should be aware of that.



Vina - the observation deck? > " observation " - means to " observe " - means " I observed them " ..

I am a non-profit company - and there is no way to find who are the artists of most of those pictures - I am not presenting them under my OWN NAME - I am not openly declaring them as MY IDEA.



In closing - what prince did to me was disgusting - what sam did to me was disgusting.

I dont say that with bitterness - its just a fact.

These people are not who they appear to be - wish them both heaven as I do anyone - its just that I doubt they will make it there!


and next time Prince wishes to start a tour in my home town - maybe he should ask first!!

LOL!.


" the famous - the freaks - the wealthy - the hidden - assume to live above spiritual law - preach it with mouths - yet act upon it not - religion is a fad for them - most have never known true love - buffered by the yes-people - buffered from a conscience above - the first to complain - when somebody does them wrong - yet unable to see its their own reflection - takers are takers - givers give in humility - u wont see my face on TV "

You are just accusing them and they cannot deffend themselves, you could be a liar, or they could be. You proved nothing, and I don´t care. ALl I know is that this is one of the most annoying threads I ever saw.

sacredwarrior said:

Sorry, but I don't see that many similarities there. He's not saying the universe was created by sound, furthermore, that is not your original idea. "Music is the new politic" and "Musicology" are not the same at all. Musicology is the historical and scientific study of music. I've been staring at the definition of Politic and I have no idea how it relates to the study of anything, much less music. Art of mind and Art of Musicology? Huh? What about The Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama? The Art of War by Sun Tzu?



Well, I didn't know you were doing the observing until I asked you. So for a minute, I thought you were the creator of the art because there was no explanation... no introduction like "these are cool pictures I found on the web." Which is what I am going to do when I put up a bunch of pictures of the goddess Saraswati on my site.

When I put up my explanation about my name on my website, and quote the book about how the Hindus believe that everything starts with a sound... (Aum or Om being the most basic mantras) I hope that will be ok with you and you don't think I'm stealing your idea.

Be well.


[Edited 9/22/04 16:34pm]

Sorry guys.
This has went a little too left field from the orginal post. Much respect to you guys but I gotta kill it.

I'm sorry but may I suggest this subject be continued on a new thread on the NPGMC forum.


As far as the orginal question at hand...
I took it as Sam drawing from the same inspiration that I did. Our children.
BUT I WAS FIRST!!!! BUWHAHAHA!!!

PB, we gots some work to do. I'm (almost) freed up! (I know it's been like FOREVER! LOL)
You guys are my heros. You inspire me.

yuck... (mushy feeling)

Locking thread.