NPGMC member "rialb" took the time to write this respectful blurb in the "U Tell Us" forum at the club...keep in mind that the name of the fucking forum is You Motherucking Tell Us -- why exactly would you call it that if you're gonna act like a guest on Jerry Springer and fly off the handle at a respectful suggestion?

Anyway, here's what

rialb wrote:

And this is what PeePee9 responded with...wow, what a swell person...so forgiving and understanding...you really get a spiritual vibe from this, don't you? It's like Jesus is posting on the boards Himself!

PeePee9 replied in a pissy tone:



You're so fucking oblivious, PeePee9!! I think you should retire...you don't seem cut out for this job AT ALL.

What do y'all think? Did rialb deserve this verbal smackdown?

The comment from whomever is PP9 today is totally disrespectful. I don't know if you know, 'angel, but recently one of the PP9s admitted that a number of people use the PP9 moniker.

A simple 'Please wait and see' comment would have been adequate, but what they've replied with is actually quite an aggressive response.

The forums are, more often than not, the thing that lets the NPGMC down. There's a definite 'We're right and you're wrong to criticise us' vibe there and it's not healthy. It seems that you can be as disrespectful, aggressive, condascending and downright rude as you like, so long as you're supporting Prince and his work. However, if you use the same manner to criticise some element of Princes work, then you're treated like a second-class, unworthy member. And it's a shame.
Although I can see where 'PP9 du jour' is coming from, I just wish that he/she would have shown a little more respect when replying to this post which ultimately ain't that bad.

The conclusion that I've come to with the Club is - Take advantage of it, don't bother trying to be a part of it.

If people are happy feeling that they're part of that community, then right on for them and I don't see why anybody should make fun of, or look down on those people in any way. However, if you feel like an outsider (i.e. you dare to say that Prince can, sometimes, be less than great), then don't bother trying to fit in because you clearly never will.

You know, I doubt Prince would really care if he read that somebody thought he was crap. He'd just shrug it off and move on. He's certainly had enough critics in his time and he hasn't let them stop him yet. I just think that his 'Yes' men and women are being a little over protective of their master.

I'm looking forward to all aspects of the Club, except the forums. 'angel, I think this is the emoticon that you should be using a lot more -

I really don't think that the behaviour of the mods is worthy of fretting about.

Haystack said:

I want to tattoo this entire post on whatever part of my anatomy that can fit it all in. Thanks for the eloquence, Haystack.

Hi, this is rialb, the "victim" mentioned above. In fairness to PP9 not all of my comments were reproduced above. After several people had basically agreed with most of what I was saying someone asked how we could let Prince/the NPGMC know how we felt. I replied by saying "I'm tempted to say that they don't care, but I think it's more accurate to say they are oblivious to the fact that not all of Prince's fans own computers". I have no idea why but for some reason the moderator took great offense to my use of the word oblivious. I don't think I said anything negative at all. You gotta love the freedom and love you feel in the NPGMC!

Haystack said:

Oh God, dude. I love you. You've said everything I have been trying to say about the Club and it's overprotection and zealousy over the Prince character they invented, for years!

Thank you for your clarity.

'blue...I know you and I know you love The Drama, but it's becoming nothing but re-runs.

It's a re-run of a re-run, warmed over.

I kinda don't get what the fuss is over releasing music in WMA format. There is Windows Media Player 9 available for Mac as well. It's free. And a majority of people at the club and on this site do have a computer.

My ancient packard bell 200mhz computer sittin in my closet could play those tracks.

The WMA format gives them a few more options to control the music from being traded illegally. But its also giving us more options as well, we can pay for only the tracks we like (if they go with that 77 cent plan), and we can get the music instantly - no waiting for him to ink a distribution deal first, no waiting for it to arrive in the mail or in the store.

I know that over the years, if there's a way for NPGMC to fuck it up - they'll find it. But there's plenty of time to complain about it after the album is released. Why pull your hair out now in the months leading up to it, when we don't really know for sure exactly how they will release it?

Tom said:

Tom -- with all respect, I think you are missing the main concern. The WMA files that the club moderators said would be offered through the musicology store carry a level of encryption that Windows Media Player 9 for Macintosh does not support. (However, one of the moderators at the club did post today that there would be alternatives for Mac users.)

This is straight from the FAQ section of WMP for Mac on the Microsoft website:

-----

Content providers can protect Windows Media files from unauthorized playback by using a technology called digital rights management (DRM). A Windows Media file that has been assigned digital rights is called a "protected file."

To play a protected file, you must obtain a license (a kind of electronic key) from the content provider. In many cases, the Player can acquire a license for you automatically when you attempt to play the file. In other cases, the content provider may not issue you a license until you pay a fee or provide additional information.

Content providers can issue several different versions of DRM licenses; however, Windows Media Player 9 Series for Mac OS X only supports version 1 licenses. This means that you might be able to play some protected files, but not others.

We have informed our content partners about this issue so that they can decide whether to offer version 1 licenses to their customers who use Macintosh computers.

Doozer said:

Ah, I forgot about the version 1 and version 2 licenses, they updated DRM a while back, good point.

In that case that does suck for mack users. Perhaps the NPGMC should have taken a survey or something in advance to get more feedback before embarking on something like this. Or just ditch the digital rights management for now.

who makes the WMA format....and does Prince have shares in their company.....cos this ain't doing shit 4 his 'free the music' idealism....what a joke...he is greedier than all the suits combined.....I wonder who gives him the heads up on things...is there any1 out there that can tell him...he is the emperor - and he's butt naked....maybe Mani can.....go on Mani.....tell him what 2 do...u r his wife and he must do what u say...(all the married men here know what I'm talking about).....

Haystack said:

I think his reply wasn't bad. But don't you guys usually have a problem when they give a sparse response like that? The poster did attack first by saying the PPs are oblivious. People say things like that all the time and think it's okay, but once the PPs respond in an aggressive way, your delicate constitutution gets upset.

wyld1 said:

Moderators shouldn't be talking to customers like that, plain and simple. And that's what members are: customers. They're people who have the potential to spend money at the Club and should be treated with respect, for the sake of the business.

Where I work, I get idiots on the phone all the time. They can be rude, they can be aggressive and they can be downright ignorant, but I have to be as polite as possible and try my hardest to correct their problem. I have to apologise for any errors on our part and thank them for their call. Once the phone is put down, then I'll happily give my opinion on what I think about them. However, as they are our 'customers', then I have to treat them with respect, even though they make my blood boil. Likewise when I go to a shop, I expect to be treated with respect by the employees and if it's something that I'm complaining about I expect them to politely respond, even if they don't think I've got a valid complaint.

If you went to a shop to complain about something and they told you in a similarly condascending way, to fuck off (pretty much what's going on here), would you shrug your shoulders and say 'Oh well, I suppose I was a little critical'? I doubt it.

It's no wonder people think that the NPGMC are oblivious to what their members want. Their past record isn't exactly wonderful (hey, let's advertise four seperate albums and then assume that members would rather have a three-CD live set that they could buy in a store anyway) and if they don't make things clear in the first place, then they can only expect that members are going to be asking questions and assuming the worst.

Generally NPGMC members are like mushrooms - I'm sure a few people here know what I mean by that comment.

Haystack said:

PP7?? PP9??
I don't like the idea of customer support people being labeled as numbers..

There once was an agent I worked with who went by the name "six" because six was actually part of his last name and he dealt with some really sensitive side projects in between three large organizations.

But for a little cult fan club why can't they just use names? "Any name" but a cowardly cold and meaningless number. Are they afraid we'll come over there and whomp'em to reality with an old sock? Perhaps..

Haystack said:

Thank you very much! Maybe others don't feel this way but to me it seems like the NPGMC treat us like we are in their debt for offering us their service. I think they should realise that they need us much more than we need them. They are a business like any other and they should treat us with respect. It seems like we are supposed to be grateful for anything they offer us and we should never question them or anything they do in any way. Plus I was only posting my opinion on a board titled U Tell Us! And can anyone tell me what is offensive about the word oblivious? I'm sure there are many of you out there who at one time or another felt that the NPGMC was more interested in your money than satisfying you as a customer. Obviously there is a huge rift between Prince fans. Personally I think that rift is due, in large part, to Prince's relative failure as a business man. I love the man's music but I don't think he runs his business nearly as well as he could.

But in all seriousness, not all people "own" computers. A lot of people are using computers while at work.

For instance, at work I can't even go to a site that relates to MP3s. My temp folder has been modified to not accept any outside "entertainment" files.

I can't even listen to any of the online radio stations at work. (BTW truly enjoy the Netscape all Prince channel (at home))

And if you use a computer at a local library or internet cafe, then sometimes you have no choice of what you can/cannot download. Especially with the amount of virues (sp) out there.


On a separate note, I have noticed that some of the PPs are getting just a little agitated lately. Maybe there under a lot of stress with the TV appearances, Concert promotions, Live theater feeds, etc.

However, that you're job and that's what you get paid for. If a customer has a question, then answer it as politely as possible and move on. As a business you can't afford to let your emotion enter into a business atmosphere.

And since I'm on my soapbox.

I'm tired of the PPs saying, you guys/girls do really well with spreading the news. Why should we repeat it here. Why? Because I was told that I would hear it from NPGMC first. And when asked for confirmation you get the condescending attitude that "if you know so much, why do you need confirmation from us (the PPs)"

"I don't know, life's a bitch"

Peace

CherryMoon said:

I think you are probably right about the PPs being under a lot of stress. And I don't think that they realise that just because you have access to a computer that does not mean that you also have access to a burner.

You are so right about your last point. The moderators need to chill. Sometimes we do not know if something is going to happen for sure or not. The NPGMC should be the place where we can get confirmation. If you ask them they get pissy at you. If you ask others they (the pps) get pissy at you for "spreading false information".

Tom said:

Yeah -- I was bummed about it. Glad that you see what all the fuss is about now. But, good news as posted by PP9 in the U Tell Us forums:

Haystack said:

I'm kind of thick...

Anxiety said:

Kept in the dark and fed on bullshit!

Haystack said:

Nice.

CherryMoon said:

I was gonna bring up the comment about 'spreading the news'. The clubmember that comment was directed to has been one of the nicest people I've seen on the boards. I really think that was uncalled for, whether her question had been asked a thousand times or not.

Haystack said:

I see you only dealt with the responsibilities of the PPs. What about our responsibility to give them respect. We mustn't forget they are humans too, and maybe they're getting a little tired of some of obnoxious talk.

And as for how I deal with customer service people, I don't call them names or try to insult their intelligence first. See that's where you guys are missing the point. Just because you are a paying customer doesn't give you the right to talk to them in any manner you see fit. I didn't think calling them oblivious was that bad, but PP9, or whoever, did think that.

You need to grow up and stop acting like Prince and the PPs are sitting around trying to figure out how to opress you guys. If you want a cause to fight, go to Iraq and fight for some oil for Dubyah.

wyld1 said:

You know, I did start to write an in-depth response to your post, but then I read your last paragraph (shown above) and suddenly realised just how immature it sounded.
Maybe it's you who needs to grow up and stop jumping to the Club's defence whenever somebody dares to justifiably criticise it.

I'll see you in Iraq as well, shall I?

Haystack said:

It's spelled defense. My last paragraph sounded immature, but yet somehow you still managed to respond. Very validating.
[This message was edited Sun Mar 7 7:30:04 2004 by wyld1]

It's spelled "defense" in America and "defence" in Britain, you ignorant bloody American!!!

Nice comeback though, really.



Nobody said that customers have the right to treat customer service reps any way we please. Would you be surprised to find out that I am always EXTREMELY friendly with customer service reps, unless they cause me to act otherwise? And that's what the PeePees have done. I find it interesting that even you say you found nothing rude about the use of "oblivious"...so why the fuck are you defending their pissy response then?

I think the big picture is being missed.

Because of all the "banned ones" I think people have changed the way the ask questions to the PPs. Saying Please and Thank you an and you're really appreciated.

However, it doesn't go both ways. Calling NPGMC members "Obsessive" is insulting to me, especially with all the "Fan" talk of the past.

However, if no one was interested in what's going on, where would Prince or the Music Club be.

Like a lot of people have posted, hey you've got to be remotely obsessive to stand in line for hours in the rain, snow waiting to get seats.

Paying hundreds of dollars for tickets, lodging and travel to get to events.

Paying more $$$$ for a T-Shirts, Tamborine, Ear Cuffs ( ) scrap books. I mean come on.

Yes, we're all under stress, trying to make arrangements for concerts and travel and lodging too.

But "most" people post politely asking for an answer. Those are the persons who need to be treated with respect and kindness.

God forbid you have a dyslexic (sp) trying to read the boards with all the Prince speak. Maybe they need clarification.

ARGH!!!!!


whatever . . .

Haystack said:

I'm not a club member, but this sounds like it's full of double standards.

Savannah said:

Me neither. This way they never have to personally respond.

Tom said:

The fuss should not just be about the Mac issues. The fuss in general should be about the revolutionary change in how you will be able to purchase and listen to your Prince music once DRM becomes the standard manner in which they will offer it to you. Like the info from Microsoft states DRM allows "content providers" to prevent "unauthorized playback" and will always be accompanied by a "license", which always comes down to a license to listen. Together with provisions from the DMCA, which prohibit the circumvention of copy protection measures (DRM), this means that you will not be allowed to circumvent the protection, even for strictly lawful purposes and you will not own the copy you purchased as you did when you simply bought a CD, due to the "license to listen". In short it means that the NPGMC legally and factually controls the way you will listen listen to the music they provide. This WILL cause many problems with many users and should be approached with great care by the NPGMC, which it is not.



--
[This message was edited Sun Mar 7 9:03:18 2004 by Abrazo]