The following is the first post of a thread that was posted in the Member Connection forum at the NPGMC. It's still there. I won't mention which member it was, but a quick visit to the NPGMC will expose them.

Now, am I being over-sensitive? Or do other people here think that this hateful crap is okay and is totally justified in being allowed to stay up? I'm pretty sure that this sort of thing would have been immediately deleted by the Org. Clearly, the mods at the NPGMC think that this is a reasonable way to discuss such matters!

Posted: 08 Feb 2004 05:30 Post subject: What made you a practicer of Homosexuality/Lesbianism

Since the discussion in other threads inevitably ends up discussing homosexuality, I thought it would be a good way to learn how some become a practicer of this type of fornication.

I used to live in San Francisco and worked around alot of homosexual males who flatly told me that this was a fad and that in 10 or 15 years they would be married with two kids and a dog and a white pickett fence. Some of them did and gave up the life. Others died of AIDS. This was back in the late 70's.

My first apartment was in the Hayes Valley Area and everyone in the building was either a cross dresser, drag queen, butch or some what ever type of homosexual. My neighbor and best friend we two were the straight people in the complex. Needless to say, BOY did my mind and eyes open up wide and I saw and learned things I never knew existed. I was born and raised in Los Angeles and both of my parents are musicians. I only really knew of homosexuality intellectually.

I was hit on alot. Some of them are so predatory. Some not all. I wouldn't date anyone who told me they were from San Francisco. This was my rule and I stuck to it. I didn't think San Francisco had any natives who could spell the word straight. If you know what I mean! It was rough. I was not curious yellow. I was not interested in trying it on for size or as some say don't knock it until you try it! Well my saying is I do not have to get burn by fire to know that fire burns. Oh baby baby I know that fat meat is greasy. OKAY!

I knew a young guy who worked with me who said that he never slept with a woman he was only 18 years old. I told him he was too young to make this choice for the rest of his life then he told me he was molested as achild for years. He was forced in the life, but he seemed well adjusted to it. That is what he said at least. I wonder though if he really was happy.

Another man I knew when I worked in Medi-cal had AIDS and a looker. I asked him if he knew then what he knows about sex and AIDS today would he change and be heterosexual and he said No. He enjoyed his sex life. Some people like living on the edge.

I often wonder if some people are looking for the ultimate sexual experience and if this lifestyle in and of itself does have the appeal like a drug you are constantly chasing that orgasm.

This is going to raise alot of eye brows but I am going to say it anyway.
Sex = how good it really is, is all in your mind.

I just want to know how most of you became homosexuals or lesbian.
Personally I think it is the highest from of rebellion. This is my opinion what's your story.

For me, it's the first and last paragraphs that are downright offensive. Oh, and what's spouted out in-between isn't very nice, either. How do people from San Francisco feel about this post?

Sad. Very sad. I hope that it's all a joke that I just haven't got. I'll happily suffer that embarrassment.

I saw this too...I think I may have even responded to it. But I didn't follow up on it because it just didn't seem to be flowing in the direction of productive or logical debate. It's like setting up an Amnesty International literature table at a cross-burning - what's the point, really?

Anxiety said:

Yeah, but it was more the fact that it's been allowed to remain up on the forums when it's clearly a very hateful post. Is this something that the mods agree with, and therefore are happy to leave up? If it was as hateful towards race, then I'd imagine that it'd be gone pretty damn quick. But clearly, discrimination against gay people isn't particularly important to the admin people at NPGMC.

Shame.

_____
[This message was edited Wed Feb 11 15:49:34 PST 2004 by Haystack]

The answer to your question...NO!

It's amazing the ignorance some people display when they try to act like experts on subjects they obviously now nothing about.

Yeah, it's pretty shameful that this kind of shit is allowed yet BlueAngel can't say a curse word...

Did you report the thread as offensive?
Maybe you should.

I would.
[This message was edited Wed Feb 11 16:08:57 PST 2004 by SENSHY]

Fuck the NPGMC.

I don't find it offensive. I do think it's ignorant.

madartista said:

Again, it's not the person's attitude - it's the fact that the NPGMC has allowed it to remain.

SENSHY said:

I've just done it. I sent this to PaisleyPark9;

Member Connection: What made you a practicer of Homosexuality/Lesbianism

Can I just say that I find the post that started this thread extremely offensive. It clearly sets out to be offensive and is written with no respect whatsoever to the people whom it's discussing. I've got no objection to people discussing whether or not homosexuality is something that is chosen or born with, or whether homosexuality is right or wrong, but I do feel that the person who started this thread is being downright hateful and I thought that the NPGMC tried to discourage this.

If the person discussed racial issues with the same aggression and with the same level of stereotyping, would that be tolerated here? I'd hope not. Likewise, I don't see why gay members of the Club should put up with people like this being allowed to post in such an unpleasant and clearly homophobic manner.

This isn't discussion - it's an attack and is most definitely combative. It makes sweeping generalisations and labels people. Again, I ask if racial issues would be tolerated if 'discussed' in the same way. Unfortunately, thus far, it seems that nothing has been done about it and it also seems that it's clearly tolerated here. I hope that's not the case.

Thank you,

Brian.

This type of mentality really gets to me. What is clear to me is that the person who wrote this is trying to make it seem like it's an open discussion "This is my opinion what's your story?..." to veil the fact that his/her ignorance has allowed for them to spew this unjust and unflattering view of homosexuality.

I rarley if ever respond to this type of post but I have something to share with all of you that should finally be realised concerning Prince (more on that in a minute).

There are so many aspects of what this person has said that are based on opinion, NOT fact. Too many generalizations/stereotypes (they're predatory...please, straight people can be just as predatory) and what really gets me with this person is that they have no belief in GREY AREA--Example "...they would be married with two kids and a dog and a white pickett fence. Some of them did and gave up the life. Others died of AIDS."...so that's it??? You either give it up or you died? COME ON MAN!!!

The main thing with this persons post (and most homophobes views) is that they make everything that has to do with Homosexualtiy boil down to SEX. Where's the talk of loving someone??? People get so caught up in the sex of it that they can't see the forest for the trees. BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE TO SPEND YOUR LIFE HAVING SEX WITH THOSE OF THE SAME GENDER...it's a deep understanding of what you as a human being find comfort in and desire and love for someone that happens to be the same gender that you are. Homosexuals are unable to feel the deep connection of a loving relationship with those of the opposite sex in EXACTLY the same way that a straight man could not feel this from another man. We still LOVE the opposite sex (a common misconception with some), it's just that we don't have that connection that is needed to make a truly loving realtionship with the opposite sex...THUS we find it in the same sex. EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THIS EARTH DESRVES TO KNOW THE BEAUTIFUL FEELING OF FALLING IN LOVE WITH SOMEONE, it shouldn't matter which sex they find it with. Dig up?!

As for "I often wonder if some people are looking for the ultimate sexual experience and if this lifestyle in and of itself does have the appeal like a drug you are constantly chasing that orgasm." I know TONS of gay AND straight men that are constantly chasing that... this is not something unique to homosexuals.

I could go on and on but I feel the need to address something I learned last year that truly depressed me:
I have a friend that works for Prince and he has told me lots of great stories which I would love to share but won't because I want to protect his anonymity. However, there was something he told me once that began having Prince start to comment about something relating to homosexuals, when in a glance he asked my friend if he was Gay (he's not) because he didn't want to offend him with what he was about to say. At that point I think my friend (who knows that I am gay) began to realize that I was getting uncomfortable and that he was probably telling me too much and thus changed the topic. For months I wondered what Prince was going to say to him that might have offended him if he were gay.
I finally had the nerve to ask him flat-out what Prince thought of Homosexuals and my worst fear was realized. He told me (in that round-about way that Prince has made famous, for knowing how to answer a question qithout giving the answer) with a look on his face that told me he knew he was about to crush my feelings--that he "is against it" and though I have never expected him to be performing at a Pride Parade anytime soon, hearing this made me want to cry.
Here is a man/artist that has brought me so much PURE JOY for the past 20 years of my life that I now know feels that being gay "is wrong" and that I am somehow sub-par on the Human scale.
I would welcome any kind of debate with him on this subject yet fear I would only hear more of what was written at the start of this thread. I hope I am wrong. Someone like Prince who has preached diversity, love, understanding, sexuality, non-descrimination and peace over the years is someone I had always hoped he would have the understanding that someone who is gay is deserving of love too.

I bet Prince's answer (if he did in fact say that) wouldn't have been the same pre religious conversion. I hate religion for this very reason. It instills fear and guilt where there once was none. It's fucking sad.

"I only really knew of homosexuality intellectually."

ROFL - It's obvious from this post that you aren't the most "intellectual" person out there!

I'm not gay, nor have I had any desires to be gay - but this post sounds like its taken out of the anti-gay propaganda from 20 years ago!!

I'm quite sure this person thinks all gay people can be "cured"!

Haystack said:

That's the most disgusting thing the club has done so far...you're telling me in 3 days the mods didn't see that or get a single complaint? If so, that's fucked up there, too.

Hmmm, no WONDER I don't fit in there...I'm one of those AIDS-infected faggots...you know, the kind who do hair and just suck dick for a lark before they decide to settle down in San Francisco with a wife, 2 kids and a picket fence.

I'm going to forward this to the claims representative at the BBB who has been handling my complaint - show him what kind of hate speech the club is propagating in the name of "Unity."

Did anyone just see the Chappelle Show with Dave as Rick James punching that guy in the face and leaving an imprint of his ring, which says "Unity"?

How fucking PERFECT is that as an analogy for the NPGMC and their bullshit love4oneanother?

PeePee9 said:



Alllaaahhh...Alllaaahhh...

theblueangel said:

That show was hilarious. And it is a perfect analogy.

The writer of the MPGMC thread in question needs a Charlie Murphy style leg beatin'.

if i were a bonafide member of the npgmc, i would so post this banner that i made on that thread:



...but in all seriousness, the person who created that thread has a lotta fuckin nerve. i'm straight, but i find commentary like that offensive. homophobia is on my top 5 list of pet peeves...all this b.s. the music cult's spouting about "unity" n'shit obviously ain't jivin too well. you can't make simple statements about disliking prince and how he runs his shit without them bein deleted, but yet n'still people are allowed to make little veiled attacks like this one and they're able to stay up. why?

if you're a member of the club i highly suggest that you speak up and let the mods over there know that this kinda commentary is totally outta kilter with the rules they set on their forums...that, and they're illin.

theblueangel said:

It is no more in the site...

Haystack said:

that was my answer to the guy who did this:

[/b] Wow!! hold off your horses there!!! i am not gay but i totally respect the choice of life made by people. But here!!! What is this attempt at theorizing homosexuality? Do black people are black because they are rebels? I don't think so. they are black because they are black and gays are gays because they feel better this way. Period. It's a question of identity.

not all gays have been molested or else. Reading the statement above makes me think of scientists who were trying to find a cure to "the gay desease". Makes me puke indeed.

When you like chocolate and eat to much you got a stomach ache but you don't regret your love for chocolate, is that living on the edge?

My answer let women ,men be what they want to be that's all.

Welcome to the real world, man...

Who's with me on this?
[This message was edited Thu Feb 12 2:22:45 PST 2004 by klaatu]

Haystack said:

Sad but true

Klaatu, thanks for the wisdom (I'm not being sarcastic this time, I SWEAR). Seriously...if more club members were like you, I wouldn't have a problem with the damn place (well, except for the fact that there's no music, heh).

Still though...I've seen threads about shipping and handling costs be taken down within minutes, but this kinda ish stays up for 3 or 4 days, only being taken down after being reported by it on the Org?

Goddamn, I love this place. Godblessit, I hate that place.

Stack, you are not being over-sensitive at all. I was one of the people who responded to this thread over there. This person obviously started the thread to bait, but as there are a lot of wonderful gay AND straight people in the club, we didn't fall for it. This person also made equally offensive comments over in the Knowledge forum to the effect of telling another club memeber: "Aren't you glad that we aren't going to be burning in hell." This is after said member said that once homosexuality would be accepted, pedophilia would be next. Perhaps, the powers that be thought we people in the lifestyle could handle ourselves, and we have, with dignity and our heads held high. Perhaps, they have another agenda where they truly don't care what hatred is spewed at us. The moment we say something, we get accused of trying to defend our lifestyle or trying to get people to accept us. But you know Stack, this is not the only time hateful posts like these have popped up. Examples have been posted here in the past.

No, you're completely right. I used to live 20 minutes from S.F. This guy is a moron.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

No offense to you,cuz I think youre doing a great job ,but couldnt your comment apply to some of the hypocritical moderation decisions made here lately?I mean alot of people arent too happy about what went down,yet anytime anyone trys to discuss it,threads are locked and we're told to let it go.

But the Org doesn't immediately remove all posts that they deem to be too critical of the site...FAR from it. That's the difference - and it's fucking huger than Mama Cass' twat.

theblueangel said:

Say Blue, see sometimes we disagree but ultimately we agree (this is just an obscure mystical remark of mine!!!)!! thanks for the good words you said about my reaction!!

My guess conerning posts deleted quicker than their shadows (like the handling and posting stuff and many others) is that some threads multiply like flies over there hence the necessity to delete them because they say the same thing over and over again! Often we just have to read the thread title to guess the content. Maybe that's what they do over there...

Here this hate-made stuff is not so often shown in the forums (i seldom go to the member connections anyway, maybe the mods don't either!!), maybe that's why it took longer... Or maybe they didn't read it because of the legnth!!! Seriously the important thing is that it's not there anymore... Let's stay positive and guess that they have a valid reason for their late reaction.

Peace ya'll!!!

eleven said:

nooo... i cannot believe my hero has turned narrowminded and stupid. . .

I wouldn't let this goon's thread, or the PPs' (convenient?) neglect of its "disharmonious nature", reflect badly on ol' Purplepants - I have a strong feeling that, with everything he's scheming recently, the NPGMC is kind of an afterthought, like that big ol' round building next to Paisley Park that he had people start to build but never finished. That doesn't really excuse the thread being allowed to stay up as long as it did, but at least it's (finally) been taken down, and we've all had a chance to recognize it for the toxic crap that it was. I just don't put a lot of stock into what goes on in the club anymore these days - Prince doesn't seem that connected to it these days, the "community" seems to have gotten more stale than ever, and let's face it - right after the Grammys, it was all but impossible to get on the Org cuz so many people were flooding this site...seemed pretty easy to get on NPGMC, though, no? Hmmm. Interesting.

XxAxX said:

Maybe he is against but it doesn't mean he wouldn't be cool with it. I mean he asks your friend if he was gay not to offend him. He may be against but accept it anyway...

lovemachine said:

aMEN