Also in relation to the topic a bible study is a seperate entity apart from Prince's music. I do not find the fact that a bible study be it private or v.i.p. objectional at all. Prior to Prince being J.W. I absoloutely had no problem with him. Why? Because what he did had no effect on me or my personal beliefs. He could only affect me if I allowed him to. By that I mean if I blasted disagreeable music all day long I am certain that after a while it could get into my mental. I think you have to be able to "seperate" yourselves from negative thinking. Also Prince does not speak for all J.W.'s just as I do not. So to say, "well Prince did this or that..", does not mean that every witness feels or thinks that way.

jojofran said:

See, that's just it.

What kind of fam or fan would pay $1,000 to shake Prince's hand?

I dunno - why don't you ask Prince? If you have enough scratch, that is. It was his idea, after all.

I still have a hard time with Prince being a JW Ideologist on one hand, but on the other hand, it's cool to cash in on idolatry when it'll make him $$$. Either walk it or don't walk it, you know?

Anxiety said:

exactly my point. and the whole "worry about the music" thing is moot. the fact is, the man claims HE IS HIS MUSIC. so where does that leave him?

in his own words: "somewhere in the middle. not too good. not too bad."

Anxiety said:

The fact that is escaping people is that J.W.'s are not perfect. Prince is a newly baptized brother who will make many mistakes just as we all do. For someone like a "fan" to critique his every action after him desperately trying to please God and follow the bible is in my humble opinion "wrong". Yes, of course it is a drastic change for his fans but seasons change as do people. Cat Stevens was loved by millions up "until" he became a practicing Muslim. But he is happy in his personal beliefs.

jojofran said:

but cat stevens, from the time of conversion, changed his life to reflect his new beliefs. his music and demeanor reflected the new religion. prince continues to show his ego. the ego was cool when he didn't claim anything else but now that he claims to be something, he needs to act the part.
[This message was edited Mon Jan 12 19:00:47 PST 2004 by SassyBritches]

SassyBritches said:

Jesus also stated that if you wanted to follow him you must be come child-like. Willing to re-learn so to speak. This takes time. Spiritual maturity is through years of perseverance. I agree with a lot of your points though.

True. Things take time. We cannot all change over night. I have a temper and am at times egotistical. Yes this trait does need to be trained just as conscience. The walk is long as with the journey. Pray for Prince.
[This message was edited Mon Jan 12 19:23:16 PST 2004 by jojofran]

jojofran said:

But if I could think of the thing with the meet and greet idolatry issue within ten minutes of reading about it for the first time, don't you think the idea might have occurred to Prince before he put it out there? Don't you think some genuinely pious JW brother or sister might have approached him about this possible perception? It would be different if some or all of the money were going to charity, but no - for a grand, you could say hi to the sacred cow.

Look, religion in itself isn't the issue - not with me, anyway. I'm also a huge fan of Johnny Cash, who lived his life as a devout Christian and recorded many gospel albums. I think his gospel music is the most beautiful music of everything he did when he was alive - and nothing was more interesting, profound or heartfelt than listening to or reading about Cash discussing religion. The man knew what he was talking about, and he was brilliant at including "non-believers" by discussing the parabolic and historical significance of his latest Bible studies. Even though I don't believe as he believed, I cared about what he was talking about because he made Jesus and the Bible an interesting, NON-EXCLUSIVE topic of discussion. And to be able to do that as a Christian, I believe, is what it's all about. Bringing people into the circle. Love and understanding.

I grew up in very religious environments. I know what an evangelical religious community is like and I know what a non-evangelical religious community is like. I know what hypocrisy in the church is like, because I saw it going on and my parents explained it to me. I also know what generosity, grace, humility and a genuine love for a higher being looks like in the church, because I've seen it as well.

Prince can do what he wants - obviously - but when he blatantly goes against publicly defined beliefs for the love of money, you better believe I'm going to lose respect for the man. But it's like I've been saying a lot lately - you gotta separate the man from the artist. As a man, I don't think a whole lot of Prince - nor do I think we are invited to see him as any kind of role model, unless it benefits him financially. As an artist, I will submit that it's a whole different bag altogether.

Anxiety said:

I acknowledge what you say and yes do agree. But try to understand what I am saying. How does what "Jo Jo" writes on the org connect me to everything that Prince does? We are seperate entitys or individuals that share the same spiritual beliefs. When people say "they" meaning J.W.'s when speaking about "Prince" it upsets me at times because all of his personal decisions do not reflect us as seperate individuals. Some things Prince does I violently disagree with but hey, I don't know him personally or his personal reasonings behind his choices. Many times I write or have responded on the org and people don't get it or understand me or twist my original meaning which bothers me but hey that's just the way the world turns. This can be compared to some of the off the cuff statements or actions done by Prince. Dig me?

HI!! I WROTE THIS THREAD B/C, AS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE, "THE HANDWRITING IS ON THE WALL". THERE WILL BE THE SEPARATION AMONGST THE MEMBERS. THOSE THAT ARE INVITED VERSUS THOSE THAT ARE NOT. EVERYONE SHOULD BE INVITED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER,, JUST DO IT IN DIFFERENT SESSIONS, OR IN THE FORMAT USED WHEN A SPECIAL GUEST IS IN THE ROOM.

PLEASE NO MORE TALK ABOUT REBECCA,, SHE GIVES ME THE CREEPS. :NOD:

BitterSweetTazz said:

how godly.

jojofran said:

Don't evade the point made Jojo. You are smarter than that. The point is that Prince says he is not about money and idolatry, but his actions show the exact opposite. Charging 1000$ for a meet and greeD with aussie fans who couldn't see him live for a decade is simply a blatant in your face way of showing that he is full of it. What's more important: his words or his actions? This point has nothing to do with Prince allegedly being a JW, but everything with his messages of money is not important and idolatry is wrong and his actions doing the exact opposite.

This patern of Prince shows in the way the club is run as well. People paid money up front but didn't get what they were promised, or too late, or without any info, or when it was already in stores much cheaper, while it was supposed to be exclusive. But what do they get? Freaky unsollicited emails about Christmess and satan claws, religious drivel and bitter attacks against warner brothers who allgedly didn't PAY him enough when he received millions of advances for a contract he willingly signed.


There is a lot more to say about that, but I leave it with this. In short the point level headed non ass kissing Prince fans are making is: Prince is a HUGE hypocrite.

Abrazo said:

That's the part that grates me - the HYPOCRISY.

I sense a great disturbance in The Force

Abrazo said:

If u re-read my entire post I state that people should spend time worrying or complaining about other issues. Prince is not speaking or acting on behalf of every witness when he does something. Trust me, if something he does is visibly out of line it will more than likely be addressed by congregational elders. They cannot "force" people to do anything but give council on it. There is a lot more where that comes from however, if people are looking for a bad thing or that "needle" in a very small haystack they will more than likely find it.

If I've seen it once I've seen it a million times. When someone trys to change for the better your going to have opposition. Noone is telling the fams to follow him true? He is a mere imperfect man "trying" to do better from what I know of him. He is no different from let's say someone on this site converting to J.W. It takes years to cultivate a spiritual maturity to many things "including" money. If I were him I would not have addressed his beliefs as blatant as he does in his music. But that is just me.

The Aussie situation seems like a big mistake in my eyes however, I was not present and did not speak to him about it or his "reasonings" as I am sure noone here has either. People love to convict people prior to trial. I am not agreeing with what he did if he did it. But the question remains how does what "he" does affect "your" relationship with God? Every man and woman will be judged on what they themselves do. The bible says judge not or you will be judged. Mind you "judge" not, not "teach" not. Holla.

I would also like to state that too many are looking up to Prince sort of like some musical messiah. I think even Prince for a while considered himself as such. But come on people if anyone has seen his interviews in the past, quite frankly the boy was off. This man called himself Sybil true? He had alter egos uncertain of the sex of them? Why would you choose to embrace his every thought or action? People get too caught up into "stars" or celebritys. People complained on this very site of how unfair it would have been not to have the music club prior to it coming out true? But low and behold the NPGMC did in fact arrive. They complained about the cost of $100.00 right? They then found out it would only cost $25.00 yearly true? Now I hear there will be no annual cost.

It reminds me sorta like the Israelites in the bible "after" they were led out of captivity in Egypt. They complained about the food, water, and distance as Moses tried to lead them to the promised land of milk and honey. Their complaining to Moses in all actuality meant they were complaining to God who had "rescued" them out of bondage. People, Prince is not Moses nor Jesus and should not be looked upon as a leader of your hearts and souls. If you follow a man you are bound to become disgruntled or disappointed. Some of the complaining has merit true, however if you focus on the positive that comes out of the club such as the free music downloads of songs on a weekly basis and the gear, videos, advanced access to music... come on folks!

Anxiety said:

lol why should I have to tell someone who knows everything anything? figure it out lol

katt said:

katt for the record it was her ex-husband that past and she sent her kids alone back to cali for the funneral...i am sorry but i had to point this out cause when she was attacking peeps in the room before she started to study she had a few peeps banned from the room by crying to the mods...she is scurry...its funny what some will do to try and get close to P...its sad that some don't have a mind of their own

KD

Anxiety said:

i agree Anx...i am usually in the room on sundays and i see what is going on...if its a true discussion then all needs to be discussed...i tried to point out a few things to PP7 but was told i was complaining...those who know me know i am open and do not pass judgement...if we wanna be real then let it be...if not tell it like it is and say... "we are gonna only talk about the JW faith end of story"...they have been rude to those that are not of faith that try and ask questions... i grew up that if U are gonna try and reach someone U need to listin not just talk...so i say let em do it in a room with those that already "know" and let them discuss...let the reg room be there for those that do not wanna discuss the JW faith...my mind is open and willing to discuss but not be forced only 1 persons view not willing to discuss back...

Much luv,

KD

kdowney said:

Yes she told me it was her Ex, her children have been having a bad time dealing with his death and rebecca is having a hard time. Sometimes we do things KD for whatever reasons, yet the way i look at it, if i done something wrong how am i supposed to be forgiven by people if i do not forgive people, everyone makes mistakes

Hiya KD now come chat with us :F:

JohnnyTheFox said:

You're sounding pretty hateful. Almost jealous. An aweful lot of hate when it comes to something, I would think, you wouldn't be interested in.

oh dear

jojofran said:

If you re-read MY entire post I state that this has nothing to do with Prince allegedly being a JW, but everything with his words and opposite actions. I stick to that, maybe you could too.


Again, it's not about his beliefs. I would have said the exact same thing if he would have expressed another belief, at any other time. It's all about his words and opposite actions.


This is neither a matter of conviction before trial. The facts are clear and undisputed: Without the blink of an eye Prince charged 1000$ for a meet and greeD with the aussie fans who waited like 10 years to see him in concert. The "rule" which is broken and rings true in most people's ears, except obviously Prince's is: practice as you preach. Not really a matter that can be debated much, I would say...

So the one who says money is not important and doesn't want to be an idol should wonder how his actions affect his relationship with God. I, as any other person am free to comment on his words and actions. He is free to listen or to dismiss.

--
[This message was edited Wed Jan 14 3:34:57 PST 2004 by Abrazo]

jojofran said:

I am not sure where you are getting at with this post, but if you are trying to say that somebody who comments on the fact that Prince doesn't practice as he preaches, and thus is a hypocrite, in reality sees him as some messiah, or leader, then you are completely wrong.

I don't see him as any more than a fellow human being, who happens to be extremely talented music wise. That's it. As with all my other fellow human beings I speak my mind when I see them acting as hypocrites.

Now, if you want to see the true worshippers and followers, who act like Prince is some messiah, then look at much of the NPGMC members who believe and follow everything Prince says and who defend him against any negativeley perceived comment made about him, even if it's a totally justified comment.

That is truly unhealthy, that's true idol worship. And if prince is banking on their naive belief in his righteousness, then that is greed and BS about not wanting to be an idol, which all in all makes Prince a HUGE hypocrite.

Abrazo said:

Cool Abrazo. Take care.

Jojo,... Perhabs you are not interested in hearing this also, but maybe you are and some others too...

I think that somebody who believes in Jesus, regardless of the particular religion he adhers to, and feels we should do as Jesus did, needs to think hard whether he is on the right path when he is - at the very least- continuing to condone the idolatry and continuing to reap the dollars from it.

Abrazo said:

Everyone can try and walk like Jesus, we are all not perfect like Jesus and we have all sinned.

His job he undertook just happens to make music people want to listen to, we are the ones that buy into it, it’s just a job after all that’s in the public eye he can not be held responsible for other people’s actions abrazo.

Its only business, if you ran a business you would see it different. It does sound to me like you wish him to choose one way or the other, now what would people do and say if he decided to give it all up, would all be happy about it, would all complain about it? Let the guy run his business the way he wants to and just buy into the music and not his private life, after all isn’t that what we all have a separation between private and business life in reality.

If another human wishes to put another on a high Pedi stool this is there problem not the responsibility off prince.

I am a npgmusic club and i happen to voice my opinion a lot you can not place everyone in the same box, i won’t deny what some do yet i believe they just want to feel excepted for whatever reasons. At the end off the day we are all responsible for our own actions we can not hold someone else responsible.

katt said:

Amen, Katt. Very wise words.

katt said:

Katt, I wasn't saying he should be held responsible for other people's actions.

And I don't understand the comment about separating private and public life either. What I was talking about was Prince expressing publicly his faith, urging others to follow (or at least consider), pretending to be speaking the truth and then he turns around and lets himself be idolised and paid ridiculous amounts of money...

That is his "public life" he chooses to live. I can express my opinion on it, just like he or any other person expresses their opinion. Many fans are always quick to say that "Prince never put a gun against your head". Well, nobody put a gun against Prince's head for stating publicly what he considers to be the truth and what others should do. Nobody put a gun againmst his head to charge 1000$ for a meet and greeD either. It was his choice. So I'm not saying anything about his private life.

And it's not "only business". Frankly, I'm surprised to hear such a comment from you, because you know better than that. And in all fairness, if this was really "only business" why does he call his fans "fams" and pretends they are all "family"? Because that makes it easier to make more money off of them? especially with the ones who swallow his every word? It sure seems like it's "only business" then... How 'godly'. How hypocritical of him.

Lastly, I am not putting people in the same box here. I don't know where that comment comes from either, but I was only talking about Prince, his expressions and the way he deals with his fans. This is a Prince fan site. I honestly can't see why I shouldn't be saying what I said in this place.

At the end of the day we are not only responsible for our own actions, but also for the actions of others when we are by power to influence them with our actions. Cause and effect. Prince can choose how he excercises his influence. Nobody puts a gun to his head to do so or not. But if he chooses to do excercise it fully, he needs to be very carefull how to use it and consider the impact it has on others. If not he acts a irresonsible human being and a hypocrite if that means he doesn't practice what he preaches.

--


I would like to hear your reaction to these points.
[This message was edited Fri Jan 16 6:32:09 PST 2004 by Abrazo]

enjoyniki said:

I see they're finally rounding up idiots for a mass suicide, something every respectable cult tries at least once...

Neversin.

Abrazo said