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How much is your privacy worth at NPGMC? When I read the membership agreement of the NPGMC there is only a short paragraph dealing with the "privacy policy" of 'the Club' which reads as follows:
VI. Privacy Policy.
Subject to such privacy policies as the Club may establish and post from time to time, the Club may use the information it obtains relating to you for its internal business and marketing purposes and such information may be disclosed to third parties for such purposes and for any other purposes set forth in the Club's posted privacy policy. This paragraph mentions that there may be a "posted privacy policy". However, no such policy is posted before joining.This line was used in last eyar's agreement as well.However, last year no further policy regarding member's privacy was posted. Further it states that the Club may use the information it obtains from members and disclose it to third parties for "marketing purposes and any other purposes". This means that they can transfer your personal information to others, and also sell it. Basically it means that can do whatever they like with it. These third parties are not named and can therefore be any party. When you join the club, you have to give your name, adress and credit card number. The club therefore obliges you to transfer sensitive personal information to them and the information of all the people who joined can be sold or transferred otherwise to any other party the Club may wish. Since the club reserves the right to sell this information to third parties, there is nothing a member can do to stop that, i.e : based on the club membership "agreement". The club also uses cookies. With cookies it can track visitor's and member's internet activities. This way the club can also gather sensitive personal information, that can also be sold to third parties. The person who joined has therefore granted this club the right to do just about anything with their personal information and their privacy is not explicity respected, nor protected by the membership agreement. Instead, the right is taken by 'Prince and the NPGMC' to do anything they want with your personal information. | |
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Re: Cookies:
I keep cookies turned off on my browser and the club site works fine, so if you are really concerned about that, just block cookies (the permanent ones, not the temp ones). Cookies just amount for tons of spyware on your computer ultimately, anyway. Ads for X10 spycam, anyone? Gator, fastclick? All because of cookies. open yo mind, the entire universe you'll find
~love | |
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How standard is this for member-based sites?
Seems boilerplate to me... but regardless, if this same policy was used last year, I dont recall being spammed by folks who "bought" my information from NPGMC. I get far more spam from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc. online. Not saying privacy is not a big deal. Perhaps you should inquire with NPGMC as to what exactly they are referring to. I personally am not inclined to believe something sinister is afoot, like some seem to be hoping to find. The truth is out there.  "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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To make it more clear. From a business point of view, your private information is highly valuable. From a legal point of view, when you explicitly agree to certain terms on a website that basically state that you hand the website the right to sell, or transfer your personal information, to any other third party, you have essentially given up a great deal your privacy.
However, there are laws protecting consumer's privacy against unauthorized exploitation of personal information and unauthorized tracking and monitoring of ones (internet) behaviour. This website NPGMC takes away these rights and reserves them for themselves when you join. This does not have to mean that you will get unsollicited email, spam, altho'there semed to have been cases last year where that may have happened. Basically what NPGMC does can mean an whole array of different things; the business world of buying and selling consumer's information is profoundly obscure, diverse and highly profitable. To put it into contrast with another privacy policy. This website prince.org also makes a mention of a privacy policy in its terms of service. Prince.org however actually has one, and also a good one. The policy of prince.org is much more extensive in their explanation of what exactly they do with your information, is in accordance with law and much more friendly to your privacy than the one of NPGMC.com. prince.org Privacy Policy What this Privacy Policy Covers This Privacy Policy covers prince.org's treatment of personally identifiable information that prince.org collects when you are on the prince.org site, and when you use prince.org's services. This policy does not apply to the practices of companies that prince.org does not own or control, or to people that prince.org does not employ or manage. Information Collection and Use prince.org collects personally identifiable information when you register for a prince.org account, when you use certain prince.org products or services, when you visit prince.org pages, and when you enter promotions or sweepstakes. When you register with prince.org, we ask for your name, email address, and geographic location. Once you register with prince.org and sign in to our services, you are not anonymous to us. prince.org also automatically receives and records information on our server logs from your browser including your IP address, prince.org cookie information and the page you requested. prince.org uses information for two general purposes: to fulfill your requests for certain products and services (webpages), and to contact you about promotions and site changes. Information Sharing and Disclosure prince.org will not sell or rent your personally identifiable information to anyone. prince.org may send personally identifiable information about you to other companies or people in response to subpoenas, court orders or legal process, or we find that your actions on our web sites violate the prince.org User Agreement. Cookies prince.org may set and access prince.org cookies on your computer. The exclusive purpose of these cookies is to maintain 'state', such as whether or not you are logged in to your account. No personally-identifiable information, aside from possibly your login name, is stored in these cookies. prince.org's cookies and their contents are NOT available to other parties or websites. Your Ability to Edit and Delete Your Account Information and Preferences prince.org gives you the ability to edit your prince.org Account Information and preferences at any time, including whether you want prince.org to contact you about specials and new products. You may request deletion of your prince.org account by visiting our Account Deletion page, verifying your password once more and confirming your choice to terminate the account. Security Your prince.org Account Information is password-protected for your privacy and security. In certain areas prince.org may utilize industry-standard SSL-encryption to protect data transmissions. Changes to this Privacy Policy prince.org may amend this policy from time to time. If we make any substantial changes in the way we use your personal information we will notify you by posting a prominent announcement on our pages, and at our discretion, optionally e-mailing all users. Questions or Suggestions If you have questions or suggestions please contact us. The most important thing about these terms is that they explictly state that prince.org does not sell your personal information and only uses cookies to make your stay at prince.org possible. that is a huge difference with what the NPGMC states. [This message was edited Sat May 3 6:51:13 PDT 2003 by DelaLuz] | |
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this is not a "standard" privacy policy whatsoever. i work for a company who has many online sites, and there is ALWAYS an "opt-out" option available for those who do not want their information shared with any third-party companies. No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.
Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected. Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine. | |
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You know what? Unless I see either money leaving my c/c account which I didn't spend, or unless I start receiving lots of spam email, I don't care.
I know the privacy thing is a principle, I just don't feel bothered by it. And unless I am bothered by the ways I say above, I'll continue to feel 'un'bothered, obviously... Maybe all the facts are not known. | |
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Perhabs the message didn't come through clearly enough: The terms of agreement to which you have to agree to acces NPGMC.com takes away your privacy rights in regards to the personal information they collect from you, without telling what they will do with it. Once they have this right and your information, you will most likely never notice what they have done with it. There are numerous ways to tarnsfer your information to any other third party. Suppose that they did, and you find out and try to do something about it, you have a bad case standing in court defending your privacy, since you knowingly and willingly gave it up. | |
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jeez. this is such a waste of time. the club has NEVER sold your info to anybody and doubt they ever will. Did you spend all day looking for something you could make a big deal about? Keep looking. | |
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well, i'm not saying they HAVE, but the agreement that they make us sign explicitly states that they CAN, and they don't have to tell you about it. and in order to access the site (and at least in my case, the MUSIC) we have to agree to this.
so i think it's at least reasonable to question this from a man who up until the last couple years never said ANYthing without mentioning his feelings on CONtracts. donniedarko said: the club has NEVER sold your info to anybody and doubt they ever will. No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.
Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected. Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine. | |
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DelaLuz said: Perhabs the message didn't come through clearly enough: The terms of agreement to which you have to agree to acces NPGMC.com takes away your privacy rights in regards to the personal information they collect from you, without telling what they will do with it. Once they have this right and your information, you will most likely never notice what they have done with it. There are numerous ways to tarnsfer your information to any other third party. Suppose that they did, and you find out and try to do something about it, you have a bad case standing in court defending your privacy, since you knowingly and willingly gave it up.
Last year our products were disributed through Gage. That would be considered a "third party" wouldn't it? Some of the correspondence about missing orders, etc was being directed to Gage. So they would need personal information such as the mailing address, credit card info, etc to be shared with them from NPGMC to operate. I can see where this opens up the door for malicious activity, but I don't think thats what they are intending to do with it. | |
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For those of us who are consumers and live in Europe, we are protected by European privacy laws. Under European law, beacuse the terms of the site were presented as a final form (i.e. they were not negotiated with each member), then it is possible that those terms are unenforceable against the member.
That said, I think the point being made by DeLaLuz is that as far as NPGMC is concerned, you have already sold away your privacy rights and you will never know if they have sold on your information or not. | |
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tenmo, i do believe that was delaluz's point as well.
my sorry ass is in the states, and we SHO' ain't got no privacy protection laws around HERE. it's up to the individual company... and the agreement we all signed means that the club can sell its member list to as many companies as it wants to without ever disclosing any of it to us, the lowly fans of the music. music?? what music... No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.
Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected. Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine. | |
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NuPwrSoul said: How standard is this for member-based sites?
Hell, not only on member based sites, almost every site on the net, that asks you for your email address, for whatever the reason, state the same thing. They will sell your information to third parties, some may have a check box for you to opt out of the practice, but really how would you know if they used it or not...it's not like a spammer is going to say, "Hey...I got your name from so and so, and I'm going to flood your inbox with crap". So I certainly agree with you, NPS. What I don't understand is why is it that when Prince does something its always such a big deal to people that they have to pick it completely apart to look for flaws, especially here on the ORG. I mean, it's like some of the people live simply to try and tear the brotha down...It's very sad when you think about, because how sad would this world be if we hadn't been blessed with the experience of Prince at all. (No Prince = No Prince.org, remember that people!) I know my world would have been very cold and dark, because Prince's music has gotten me through many rough days. I could never repay him for all the comfort, the joy, the love and yes even the lust. Through his music Prince made me feel glad to be alive and that always kept me going, and it is my hope that by being a member of his club that I am at least on some level attempting to return the favor. Alright, my morning rant is over...I feel better now, begin flamming here___ [This message was edited Sat May 10 7:02:19 PDT 2003 by DeVaniti] ___________________
Welcome 2 The Dawn! | |
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Well, it looks like some of y'all don't give a damn about your privacy, because you "love and trust"prince, as a businessman.
Devaniti, you say that "not only on member based sites, almost every site on the net, that asks you for your email address, for whatever the reason, state the same thing." That is absolute nonsense. I have already compared the "policy" from the NPGMC with prince.org's policy and there is a huge difference. I have also stated that there are LAWS protecting consumers against unauthorized exploitation of their personal information. Watch the word "unauthorized". The "policy" of the NPGMC says that you basically authorise them to do whatever they like with your personal info. If you don't care , fine, but don't go and state that I am "simply trying to tear the brotha down..." because according to privacy laws such a company has to RESPECT that. You know RESPECT, something Prince always expects people to treat him with. Like: respect his wishes not to buy bootlegs or share files. Well, respect my wishes to keep your business hands of my privcay as well. There is nothing wrong in expecting the same in return. But you rather feel "sad when you think about, because how sad would this world be if we hadn't been blessed with the experience of Prince at all. (No Prince = No Prince.org, remember that people!)" So that is why I have to voluntarily give up al my privacy if I want to "join" this "club" (i.e. purchasing the oppurtunity to chat and lose my privacy)? Nonsense. I could never repay him for all the comfort, the joy, the love and yes even the lust. Through his music Prince made me feel glad to be alive and that always kept me going, and it is my hope that by being a member of his club that I am at least on some level attempting to return the favor.
Right, give him all your info and your money... oh and your "love and trust" of course.. I am sure you would love him to find out EVERYTHING about you and "love" your right back. Get a grip. -- [This message was edited Mon May 12 5:48:24 PDT 2003 by DelaLuz] | |
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DonnieDarko said: jeez. this is such a waste of time. the club has NEVER sold your info to anybody and doubt they ever will. Did you spend all day looking for something you could make a big deal about? Keep looking.
How do you know? Do you work for them? If so, PROVE it that you work for them and they never sold anything to anybody!If not, I suggest you keep your comments that they "NEVER sold your info to anybody" to yourself. | |
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theblueangel said: well, i'm not saying they HAVE, but the agreement that they make us sign explicitly states that they CAN, and they don't have to tell you about it. and in order to access the site (and at least in my case, the MUSIC) we have to agree to this.
so i think it's at least reasonable to question this from a man who up until the last couple years never said ANYthing without mentioning his feelings on CONtracts. donniedarko said: the club has NEVER sold your info to anybody and doubt they ever will. Here is someone who understands what's going on, instead of licking Prince's boots. | |
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Tom said: DelaLuz said: Perhabs the message didn't come through clearly enough: The terms of agreement to which you have to agree to acces NPGMC.com takes away your privacy rights in regards to the personal information they collect from you, without telling what they will do with it. Once they have this right and your information, you will most likely never notice what they have done with it. There are numerous ways to tarnsfer your information to any other third party. Suppose that they did, and you find out and try to do something about it, you have a bad case standing in court defending your privacy, since you knowingly and willingly gave it up.
Last year our products were disributed through Gage. That would be considered a "third party" wouldn't it? Some of the correspondence about missing orders, etc was being directed to Gage. So they would need personal information such as the mailing address, credit card info, etc to be shared with them from NPGMC to operate. I can see where this opens up the door for malicious activity, but I don't think thats what they are intending to do with it. "Intending"? They state that they are free to do whatever they want with your personal info, so you can at least expect them to do that. | |
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TenMo said: For those of us who are consumers and live in Europe, we are protected by European privacy laws. Under European law, beacuse the terms of the site were presented as a final form (i.e. they were not negotiated with each member), then it is possible that those terms are unenforceable against the member.
That said, I think the point being made by DeLaLuz is that as far as NPGMC is concerned, you have already sold away your privacy rights and you will never know if they have sold on your information or not. Exactly, you havbe already sold your privacy. What did i say? "Sold"??? hell no! You PAID them the "right" to do whatever they want! The point is also that the way they handle their privacy policy is in direct violation of - at least- EU privacy laws, and therefore still may be unenforcable, as well as that they are in violation of several US privacy principles, which differ by state. | |
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For what it's worth, NPGMC censors your private messages. I already knew they had an auto-scan for profanity in chat and the message boards, but Little Brother's watching your private notes as well.
Just sayin'. | |
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actually, if they compile and sell mailing lists comprised of member names and data, they'll probably make FAR more money through that than they will on the club itself. | |
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DelaLuz said: Well, it looks like some of y'all don't give a damn about your privacy, because you "love and trust"prince, as a businessman.
Devaniti, you say that "not only on member based sites, almost every site on the net, that asks you for your email address, for whatever the reason, state the same thing." That is absolute nonsense. I have already compared the "policy" from the NPGMC with prince.org's policy and there is a huge difference. I have also stated that there are LAWS protecting consumers against unauthorized exploitation of their personal information. Watch the word "unauthorized". The "policy" of the NPGMC says that you basically authorise them to do whatever they like with your personal info. If you don't care , fine, but don't go and state that I am "simply trying to tear the brotha down..." because according to privacy laws such a company has to RESPECT that. You know RESPECT, something Prince always expects people to treat him with. Like: respect his wishes not to buy bootlegs or share files. Well, respect my wishes to keep your business hands of my privcay as well. There is nothing wrong in expecting the same in return. But you rather feel "sad when you think about, because how sad would this world be if we hadn't been blessed with the experience of Prince at all. (No Prince = No Prince.org, remember that people!)" So that is why I have to voluntarily give up al my privacy if I want to "join" this "club" (i.e. purchasing the oppurtunity to chat and lose my privacy)? Nonsense. I could never repay him for all the comfort, the joy, the love and yes even the lust. Through his music Prince made me feel glad to be alive and that always kept me going, and it is my hope that by being a member of his club that I am at least on some level attempting to return the favor.
Right, give him all your info and your money... oh and your "love and trust" of course.. I am sure you would love him to find out EVERYTHING about you and "love" your right back. Get a grip. -- [This message was edited Mon May 12 5:48:24 PDT 2003 by DelaLuz] Hmmm...you seem to be the one that needs to get a grip. People with common sense do not join activities that they feel uncomfortable with. If you don't like the terms, don't join, it's really just that damn simple. Especially if you are that concerned about your privacy...right? All of your unfounded rantings are laughable, In the three years of the clubs existance, I've never heard of anyone having their privacy compromised, (and I'm certain it would have been posted here) so it really sounds like you are just looking for justification for not joining. It's alright...we understand.  ___________________
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Anxiety said: For what it's worth, NPGMC censors your private messages. I already knew they had an auto-scan for profanity in chat and the message boards, but Little Brother's watching your private notes as well.
Just sayin'. Interesting... | |
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XxAxX said: actually, if they compile and sell mailing lists comprised of member names and data, they'll probably make FAR more money through that than they will on the club itself.
So, with an angreement stating that you give them the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want with the personal information they gather from you, , and without having to tell you anything about it... why wouldn't they sell it or transfer it to any other "third party"? they may even use it for "religious" purposes... | |
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DeVaniti, someone already insightfully noted on this thread that there is virtually no way that any member would ever find out about having their privacy compromised. It's not like the company who buys the information is going to e-mail you and say "Hey! NPGMC.com sold us your e-mail address, and we were wondering if you were interested in..."
The point is, the CONtract stipulates that they CAN do this, without notifying you, and there is no way to both join the club (therefore having access to any possible tickets and/or any possible music) AND make sure they don't sell your information to third party companies. DelaLuz is right - it IS about respect, and the club has in my eyes shown very little of this the last 3 years (and especially so far this year). DeVaniti...don't you have some Moderating to do, PaisleyPark9? DeVaniti said: All of your unfounded rantings are laughable, In the three years of the clubs existance, I've never heard of anyone having their privacy compromised, (and I'm certain it would have been posted here) No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.
Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected. Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine. | |
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theblueangel said: DeVaniti, someone already insightfully noted on this thread that there is virtually no way that any member would ever find out about having their privacy compromised. It's not like the company who buys the information is going to e-mail you and say "Hey! NPGMC.com sold us your e-mail address, and we were wondering if you were interested in..."
The point is, the CONtract stipulates that they CAN do this, without notifying you, and there is no way to both join the club (therefore having access to any possible tickets and/or any possible music) AND make sure they don't sell your information to third party companies. DelaLuz is right - it IS about respect, and the club has in my eyes shown very little of this the last 3 years (and especially so far this year). Well said Blueangel. I agree that this privacy statement does not show that they respect it. In fact it says the complete opposite and that is very hypocritical coming from prince, since he is always so uptight about his own privacy rights, let alone his intellectual property rights... But I got a question for DelaLuz... DelaLuz, you mentioned that NPGMC violates the privacy rights of EU citizens with this "agreement"... Could you explain which rights in specific are violated? Does it matter whether NPGMC is a US based company and chooses US law to be exclusively applicable in the agreement? Can a commercial company do such a thing in a consumer agreement? You are not my "friend" because you threaten my security. | |
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