The Moor = The Mauroi = The Black People (Mauros in Greek = Black)


HisNameIsMusicHisNameIsLovesexyHeIsTheOne

purpledoveuk said:

The opposite of peaceful is not "barbaric"... it would be more like "martial" or "warlike" or even "militant." "Barbaric" is most often used in connection with discussing levels of civilization.



Well I'm actually with the knee jerk reaction of people who cannot seem to handle anytime Prince signifies on his blackness or on race in general in his work.

Do you really think that the critical hysterical responses here have been new or interesting to me? I've heard these arguments all before. It's a pathology... the refusal to admit African contribution to civilizatioin and anytime anyone brings it up, folks follow the script of denial.

With the exception of Agarze and Abraza and a few others who have actually attempted to engage the lyrics directly and critically examine it specifically, folks have just responded with and



Yeah that makes all kinds of logical sense... measure the weight of my argument not by the argument itself, but by the fact that I appears to be part of a "Prince defence act." How about if I said, any weight of your argument fell apart the minute you exposed yourself as a racist by arguing against the lyrics? How does that sound? How do you like it when people flip the script on you and put you in a box based on a few posts here?

And what was YOUR argument? You called Larry Graham a black hitler--how more racist and anti-semitic can YOU get?



No I don't agree with everything Prince ever does or says. And that really has nothing to do with this discussion. But since you have run out of things to say... or maybe you are just tired and are in need of a nap to refresh your thoughts.

all other definition is a conscious diversion of the mind of some people.

Nupwrsoul -


u make me laugh

U would argue the hind legs of a donkey..if you werent sleeping with it.

Did I say that Barbaric was the opposite of Peacful...no, i said that the word barbaric to discribe those opposed woudl suggest that they werent as peacful - as simple as that.

Look get over it, Prince isnt going to sleep with you for sticking up for him...youre gonna have to make do with your hand for a bit longer

Ha ha ha - I dont think Im a racist mate ..Im married to my beautiful black wife...ooops now who doesnt have all the facts.

Face it - your a fool, people just came out and said "wait a sec..I find these lyrics a bit offensive" and in you rushed Encyclopedia of Argument firmly in your grasp knocking back what ever anybody said in your Bungle Bear voice " uh no actually your wrong about this and wrong about that" - you really are,and im not jsut saying this to get a reaction from you, sounding like you are pushing for a master-race. Have aread through your posts with an open mind...its starting to sound very much "black power" which is fine in the right context...but not just to get one over on everyone else.


[This message was edited Wed May 21 12:16:02 PDT 2003 by purpledoveuk]
[This message was edited Wed May 21 12:16:41 PDT 2003 by purpledoveuk]

NuPwrSoul, if Prince wants us to learn from history, then why in the fucking world would he write a narrow-minded, bigoted, hateful lyric like "holocaust aside, many lived and died - but when all truth is told, would you rather be dead or be sold?"

Yeah, I said it: HATEFUL. Go read some history on the Holocaust, Prince, and not from the anti-Semitic Jehovah's Witness "library" - go down to the Minneapolis Public. Hell, send PaisleyPark9, s/he ain't got nothin' better to do.

If, after reading about and viewing the documented atrocities that were committed en masse during the Holocaust, he still thinks that most people would rather have been a slave than systematically tortured and killed...well, at least he would be approaching his topic honestly. [I am NOT saying that slaves weren't horribly mistreated, and often tortured and killed...I know that and I'm sickened by it.]

For Prince to write and perform those lyrics and never bother to explain any of it...well, I just don't think you can honestly say that he's just trying to "learn from history."

It just strikes me as so silly that all of a sudden there are all these JWannabes who think Prince is a philosopher or something. Ignorance drips from those lyrics like a ball of wax - relax and let go, OH!

purpledoveuk said:

I don't need to know who your wife is to comment on a statement you made as ridiculous as calling Larry Graham a black hitler. All the facts I need to critique the statement is the statement itself.

I'm not going to make this personal so I'll leave it at that.



Now I'm "pushing for a master-race"? Man you really know how to reach for shit. Where the hell did you get that?

If my posting style is coming off as undiplomatic then it is only the result of frustration over people's seeming inability to deal with issues of race. Sorry I couldn't sugar coat it and make it sound nicer and softer.

"Starting to sound very much 'black power'"? Ok. Really now. Please show me where my posts are "black power-ish"?

purpledoveuk said:

Yes, I see now why trying to have a quality discussion with some people is pointless Now I am being accused of wanting to sleep with Prince LMAO

theblueangel said:

I'm glad you know that. Many do not. In fact even those that pay lipservice to knowing that are not able to articulate their knowledge of it because slavery is never discussed as a holocaust by many. See America will go on and on about the Nazi holocaust cuz its main perpetrators were not here (although America turned a blind eye for the longest and let the holocaust occur). But very few people in America and few white people in particular want to confront the fact that a holocaust occured right here--to the native Americans and enslaved Africans--and that holocaust for the most part deployed bogus notions of "race" to justify it. "Holocaust aside..." not to dismiss the suffering of Jews, Gypsies, and others who perished at the hands of the Nazis, but to say that evil was not just manifest at that one point in time. It wasn't the only holocaust (and believe me even some historians debate whether or not holocaust can be used to describe slavery).

I don't know what Prince intended with that lyric you are citing. All I know is what I took from it, and that is it is pointless to engage in comparative victimology... "would you rather be dead or be sold" like what the hell kinda choice is that? It can be read as extolling death better than slavery or extolling slavery better than death... but the point is there is no comparison.



JWannabes? that's a new one.



Yes, relax and let go... sing nigger sing, dance nigger dance. That is what we pay him for right?
[This message was edited Wed May 21 13:03:21 PDT 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

Why is it that absolutely no other subject Prince writes about brings out the haters except race?

Someone said it earlier. Incest - cool, bisexuality - cool, drugs- cool, alcohol - cool, outright genderbending - cool, Pathetic. Look at yourselves.

Who am I talking too? Youre kidding right?

See there are alot of people who find Prince's ongoing obsession w/ lighter skin, makeup, dresses, permed hair styles, white women, etc. SERIOUS varying degrees of self hate but we still show him mad luv cuz hes so funky. So when he stops all that non sense ( at 40 some odd years old) that he had to do to get you fools to buy his music in the first place, and he begins to embrace the true meaning of being a black man, unapologetically, yall lose your minds.

If he was hollering Purple Rain,(talk about meaningless lyrics) youd be front row screaming "Encore! Say nothing w/ all your might again Prince!" People who were really down knew that was popcorn time all day.

Where was all this fake assed righteous indignation at the 300 -400 other songs hes written? Oh yeah, I forgot about Avalanche. Dont say a dead white man who was a racist was a racist.

Some of yall are sick, and its well that your favorite artist points it out to you.

As far as dismissing it as silly and or childlike, you the one posting regularly on a frigging Prince fansite. He home counting money w/ his wife. Who da fool?

okay i apologize for using a white-biased source. it seemed fair given the bias in prince's lyrics, but i see the reference causes more trouble than its worth. perhaps you would prefer another source. try these:

http://www.lycos.com/redir.asp?r=tp

http://staff.esuhsd.org/~...christian/


i'm making the point that there are two sides to the issue presented in prince's lyrics. like, the first stanza where he conveniently overlooks HOW the moors got to spain. ("they came, to blossom in spain"). they didn't 'come', they freaking invaded spain, uninvited, and stole the land from its inhabitants.


or that last bit - and i'm sorry i called them 'peace-loving', this much i inferred from prince's patently wrong assertion that:

The sword of the Moor would have never left its sheath if the longhaired barbarian who opposed them would have only seen
That 2 win a war against the so-called “black infidels”
Brings about a peace that cannot last
But I guess all’s well that ends well… well it ain’t over


umm. . . sorry but the sword of the Moor left its sheath when they first introduced themselves to the long-haired barbarians. ultimately, those barbarians simply took back the land that the moors had 'conquered'

and, this is just my 2c, but i think the reason prince's attempts to address race issues produces such 'hater' (as you call it, jagjams) reactions is because, in the process of making his point, he literally BECOMES racist in the process.

plenty of artists manage to address these issues without alienating the people they are trying to reach.

this is why prince needs to work on those lyrics a BIT more, imho, before he releases this work to the general public.

Jagjams said:

I am the first person to ask you who you were talking to. I'm a black woman, by the way. I just wanted to ask a question about your post: When you talk about the fake roghteous indignation, are you refrring to all Pince fans or just the caucasian ones?

I must say, Prince is and has always been a musical geneous. However, we are more interested in his many usical talents and not his history studies. I can appreciate that he is in tune with our heritage, but we need the Prince of music for love, sexiness, and dancing! I don't expect him to don the shiny purple trench coat, just be his funky bad self. Also, as a "Long-haired baberic" European of Italian and Irish decent, these accounts embarrass and hurt me. Also, as the Long-haired babaric wife of an African-American man, it hurts that much more to see that he is taking time to dig up old things rather than enjoy his gift that God has given him. I know that there is a lot history untold out there, but we just need to be concerned with how can we make the world better.

Prince, please continue to bless us with the funk! We really don't need history lessons, we just wanna jam wit u. We all can tell that you are extremely intellingent, so you might consider doing seminars or university tours and lectures for the history that you are studying and uncovering. But as for us, your purple brothers and sisters OF ALL COLORS AND NATIONALITIES, please no more history lessons. No offense intended, just love!

stymie said:

The vast majority of people on this site, and who invariably complain loudest when Prince writes about race are white. But I'm talking to anybody who has a beef w/ this unreleased incomplete lyric. If theyre beefing, and theyre Black, theyre in opposition to themselves. If youre a Black woman, and I cant understand for the life of me why a Black woman would want to be called stymie, dosent the fact that an UNRELEASED, INCOMPLETE, LYRIC, w/out so much as a note even assigned to it, has generated this many complaints tell you anything? Got dizam baby

...and another thing...

Wasn't it all of us together that supported Prince. Wasn't he all about not mattering if your white or black, girl or boy? Yeah, I know that was then, but I am having trouble with his newer material. The music is untouchable, but why the bashing of people of the "lighter persuasion" as he once put it. Those lighter people buy his music as much if not more that our darker brothers and sisters. Most people turned away from him after the early 90's. Just a thought.

Prince, I still luv ya, just not the history (which was my least like subject) and finger pointing.

the question is what is causing people to feel like banished ones... as prolific as Prince is as much as he feels the need to share this he should follow up with what point he is trying to get across so we are not divided we know the events that occured in history now what is needed as people to go forward to rise as Rainbow children or is the Rainbow Black now that Prince knows that he is indeed Black ... History told or not what is the healing process

Jagjams, the fact that there is "not even a note attached" is perhaps the most confounding part of these lyrikkks. i'm STILL waiting for some sort of comment from him regarding the lyrics in 1+1+1=3, muse..., and family name, to name a few.

you might want to take note that in those songs i am taking umbrage with his apparent anti-Semitism, and yet i'm not a Jew!! funny how that can work, isn't it? i also take offense when he writes lyrics that i believe are homophobic, and i AM a fag.

whether or not i'm white has nothing to do with the fact that these lyrics sound like they were written by a cracked-out parody of a rock star. and any race can be racist. yes, i do feel that lately many of his lyrics and comments (i mean lately as in...96/97 on) appear to be racist - and at the very least exclusive.

and i would LOVE to hear more about how you think that prince wearing make-up and dresses has something to do with his race and self-hatred. c'mon, make us laugh.

and lay the FUCK offa stymie, you sexist bastard. she's light-years ahead of you in mind and soul.

theblueangel said:

I didn't take Jagjams to be sexist as much as pondering why "Stymie" assumed the name of a negative sterotype from TV's past era.

Blueangel, did anybody ask you wtf your race, color, creed or sexual preference was you clown? Your screen name is an insult to a slamming remix, and was a used in a Scarface reference that has nothing whatsoever to do w/ anything about you.Thanks Essence for explaining that to this idiot what he wouldnt have known if his life depended on it. So ignorant hes arrogant. Tell you more? Shit, just like Prince's lyrics, a post or two sets your dumb, punk bitch ass off. Youre ill-equipped to handle any more. Make us laugh? You and who? You speaking for folx? You need to get your own opinion together first dummy. lol

Damn I just went back and read your post ba. You are a dope. A MUSICAL note, not a letter of explanation just for you. lol boy, youre dumber than a bag of hammers. lol

.
[This message was edited Thu May 22 11:46:53 PDT 2003 by naturegirl]

NuPwrSoul dont even sweat it..you have eloquently and succinctly discussed and explained your basis etc. Others are acting out of emotion. You should know that solid is hard to get through brickheads.

Jagjams said:

Stymie is a family nickname. The person who gave me that nickname gave it to me when he was a little kid who had no idea about the Little Rascals character. If people connect that with a negative stereotype of the past, that's on them, not me. I choose not to give it that much power. I personally have a beef with the lyrics and I guess that makes me in opposition of myself. I am also a black person who felt offense with the lyrics of Family Name and Avalanche, mainly because they are so widely open to interpretation and Prince ain't coming out of hiding to say 'yay' or 'nay' to any of this discussion. I am almost sure that he doesn't want this division of fans that happened today.

Essence said:

Thanks Essence for stepping in. I knew what dude was trying to say, but I hadn't gotten a chance to respond. I love blue to pieces and he's just being protective of me.

Maybe he wants the lyrics open to the listeners interpretation.

How did you feel at the end of UTCM when his character has a flashback of horror reflected as a thick, dark brown skinned woman?

How about when he ridiculed Jerome's complexion?

Ever heard Grace? I think it goes " youre too fat! Youre too black!"

How about the laundry list of white, and light women that hes been know to run w/?

I'm not here that often lately, but I dont seem to remember anybody saying jack about this stuff.

I was offended by all that nonsense, and I'm glad he's making an effort to identify w/ his race. The atrocities of racism are a fact.

Nobody wants to take the weight, or the responsibility. Nobody wants there to be consequences. Nobody even wants to discuss it. Somebody has got to be held accountable for this.

But you cant even post about the subject w/out people attacking you as if youve done something to them. They dont give a damn about the cops harrasing us, the opportunities we're denied daily, the stores we're followed around in etc.. How much time do you have? Hell, youre black and dont want songs written about it w/out an artists explanation.

But aint nobody explain racist cowboys and indians movies, racist Hollywood, the cuture of exclusion, the white assed baby dolls I know you saw growing up, the devaluing of every single thing black in this society. Open the dictionary sometime, and look it up. Anybody explain that to you? Me neither.

Its all stemming from the same racism. Little Richard found the formula for Princes routine a long time ago. He has said many times that in the southern states especially, they wouldnt even let his black ass in the clubs to play in a suit like a man. He said he discovered that if he put on makeup, and a hairdo, the white club owners would let him in to play because he didnt seem like a threat to their weak assed masculinity.

Look at music today. The biggest black artists are the ones who epitomize self hate. Thugs, gangsters, clowns. The flipside of androgeny, sexual ambiguity etc.. The one constant: Confused assed self hating black men.

MJ cant come out on the balcony and wave, and dont let him show his children (hes got to keep veiled for their protection). Now hes, gay, crazy, self hating, a pedophile, a child killer, and an opportunist. Anything but a Black man w/ his children.

I could go on but if you dont get the point then you never will.

How do I already know what the response will be. This is why I dont come here now.

just now learning the basics of world history in his mid-40's?


Everybody by now should be well aware that i have a limited
education, and i'm in my LATE 40s.
But don't get it twisted, THERE ARE MANY, BLACK and WHITE
that are just learning about these things.
The reason being, IT'S NOT TAUGHT AS A REGULAR CARICULUM.
To get into certain pasifics one would have to take spicific
courses in history.
I apprieciate the fact that people like NuPwrSoul are so
well read and can bring lite into the situation (ARTICULATE)
But when you hear it from me, You get the 'BAD TERMS' and that ain't pretty.

The Whites were called BARBARIANS and wore there hair long
that is true.
Those of Color who were one with nature were called SAVAGES
that is true
Kubla Khan and them were the YELLOW HORDE.
Non Whites were HEATHENS
Whites were INFADELS
And almost everybody got to tell their story.
BUT NOT REALLY
The propigation of the stories is where the problem lies.
You'll not hear much about the 'Awsome' works of the American ForeFathers in SAUDI ARABIAN schools, unless
it's taught by missonaries. So I can understand how one can go a lifetime without actually knowing their HISTORY.

SO WHUT'S ALL THE HUB-BUB... BUB???

i hate to break it to everyone but Prince has grown up! The man is 44 for God's sake. I hope you are not the same person you where in the 1980's. His music and lyrics have changed just as much as we have. I know i am not the same person. Understand that when you have a true encounter with God you WILL change. He is obviously in a place where he wants to find the truth and as you know Prince writes about what he is experiencing. If you can't flow with it then I think you will be left behind. But I WOULD NEVER TELL HIM SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP AND PLAY JUGHEAD. Good Heavens...The Prince I know has a lot more talent and stuff to say.

I've said it once and I will say it again. IF I NEVER HEAR RASPBERRY BERET OR PURPLE RAIN AGAIN THAT WILL BE JUST FINE WITH ME. Bring on the new stuff "Old things are passed away and behold all things are new".

rdhull said:

yep!!! there 's a difference between theories and facts... Once again I am more than impressed with your knowledge!!! Keep on keepin it real!

Jagjams said:(my response is in bold only to separate our responses)

Maybe he wants the lyrics open to the listeners interpretation. MAYBE HE OUGHT TO SAY THAT. I WOULDN'T WANT ANYONE TO THINK I'M RACIST WHEN I'M NOT.

How did you feel at the end of UTCM when his character has a flashback of horror reflected as a thick, dark brown skinned woman? I DIDN'T GET THAT FROM THAT SCENE. THE FLASHBACK I THOUGHT HE WAS HAVING WAS ONE OF HORROR OF BEING A MALE PROSTITUTE.

How about when he ridiculed Jerome's complexion? I'M BLACK. I CALL OTHER BLACK PEOPLE BLACK BASTARDS, KISS MY BLACK ASS, ETC.

Ever heard Grace? I think it goes " youre too fat! Youre too black!" YEAH, I'VE HEARD GRACE AND DIDN'T READ PRINCE'S SELF-HATE INTO IT.

How about the laundry list of white, and light women that hes been know to run w/? YES, I WILL ADMIT THAT BOTHERED ME IN THE PAST BUT THE AGES OF THE WOMEN HE DATED/MARRIED BOTHERED ME MORE THAN THAT BUT NEITHER OF THESE ASPECTS OF P'S PERSONAL LIFE IS MY BUSINESS.

I'm not here that often lately, but I dont seem to remember anybody saying jack about this stuff. I'M SURE IF YOU GO TO THE MUSIC AND MORE FORUM YOU CAN DIG SOMETHING UP.

I was offended by all that nonsense, and I'm glad he's making an effort to identify w/ his race. The atrocities of racism are a fact. I READ AN INTERVIEW IN EBONY YEARS AGO WHERE HE SAID HE WASN'T BLACK AND YES I WAS OFFENDED. HE JUST SEEMS TO BE GOING OVERBOARD TO ME. ONLY BECAUSE IT'S A LOT TO SWALLOW ALL AT ONCE. HIS FLIP-FLOP ATTITUDE ON A LOT OF ISSUES BOTHER ME.

Nobody wants to take the weight, or the responsibility. Nobody wants there to be consequences. Nobody even wants to discuss it. Somebody has got to be held accountable for this. I HAVE TRIED TO HOLD A DISCUSSION ON TRC AT THE OFFICIAL SITE AND NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON RACE RATIONALLY WITHOUT A LOT OF ACCUSATIONS, RACE BAITING AND NAME CALLING.

But you cant even post about the subject w/out people attacking you as if youve done something to them. They dont give a damn about the cops harrasing us, the opportunities we're denied daily, the stores we're followed around in etc.. How much time do you have? Hell, youre black and dont want songs written about it w/out an artists explanation. YOU ARE BASICALLY TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE RACIST IF THEY FIND THE LYRICS IN THE VS ROOM OFFENSIVE. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ATROCITIES THAT HAPPENED TO OUR ANCESTORS. WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND STOP PERPETUATING THE LIE THAT WE CANNOT PEACEFULLY CO-EXIST AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS FIRST AND FOREMOST. YES, I NEED AN EXPLANATION TO SOME OF HIS LYRICS BECAUSE IF I START TO BELIEVE PRINCE HAS A RACIST BONE IN HIS BODY, I'M OUTTA HERE.

But aint nobody explain racist cowboys and indians movies, racist Hollywood, the cuture of exclusion, the white assed baby dolls I know you saw growing up, the devaluing of every single thing black in this society. Open the dictionary sometime, and look it up. Anybody explain that to you? Me neither. I KNOW THE WORLD AIN'T FAIR. THEY DOES NOT EXIST A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. US BEING DIVIDED ON THIS SUBJECT SERVES TO MAKE THINGS WORSE NOT BETTER.

Its all stemming from the same racism. Little Richard found the formula for Princes routine a long time ago. He has said many times that in the southern states especially, they wouldnt even let his black ass in the clubs to play in a suit like a man. He said he discovered that if he put on makeup, and a hairdo, the white club owners would let him in to play because he didnt seem like a threat to their weak assed masculinity. I DOUBT PRINCE DID THE THINGS HE DID IN THE PAST BECAUSE WHITE MEN WERE THREATENED BY HIS MASCULINITY. PRINCE COULD PUT ON FULL MAKEUP AND A DRESS AND COULD STILL GET MORE PANTIES THAN ANY MAN.

Look at music today. The biggest black artists are the ones who epitomize self hate. Thugs, gangsters, clowns. The flipside of androgeny, sexual ambiguity etc.. The one constant: Confused assed self hating black men. WELL, IT IS BLACK PEOPLE WHO KEEP BUYING INTO THIS CRAP. THIS IS WHAT WE SPEND OUR MONEY ON AND WHAT WE IDOLIZE. THAT IS NOT THE FAULT OF WHITE PEOPLE. IT IS UP TO US TO PUT THE NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES TO REST.

MJ cant come out on the balcony and wave, and dont let him show his children (hes got to keep veiled for their protection). Now hes, gay, crazy, self hating, a pedophile, a child killer, and an opportunist. Anything but a Black man w/ his children. MJ IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN DESTINY. JUDGING FROM WHAT HE HAS DONE TO HIMSELF, HE HIMSELF DOESN'T WANT TO IDENTIFY WITH BLACK PEOPLE.

I could go on but if you dont get the point then you never will. TO THE CONTRARY, I GET YOU POINT AND RESPECT IT. I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH YOU FOR THE MOST PART.

How do I already know what the response will be. This is why I dont come here now. IF YOU LET PEOPLE KEEP YOU FROM EXPRESSING WHAT YOU TRULY FEEL THEN THAT'S ON YOU.