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Printabletruths? excuse me but when you stereotype an entire continent as prince has done: "Masters of the Arts and all industry, While France, England and all Germany,
Wallowed in the mire of their own bigotry, The Moors were the ones who were truly free" you got NO right to speak on the truth | |
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readin the lyrix again...it's almost like a cross between "schoolhouse rock" 4 egg-heads and pbs gone completely bonkers... | |
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XxAxX said: truths? excuse me but when you stereotype an entire continent as prince has done: "Masters of the Arts and all industry, While France, England and all Germany,
Wallowed in the mire of their own bigotry, The Moors were the ones who were truly free" you got NO right to speak on the truth So France, England and Germany's national stance wasn't bigoted against the moors, and for that case any other group of non-European derived peoples? | |
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By the way, how come none of you critical NPGMC members are raising your grievances over at the site? Only NuPwrSoul's positive thread is there and with minimal feedback. | |
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NuPwrSoul said: "Hatred toward whitey"? LMAO Wake up. The world was NEVER "Uptown"--that was a fantasy or maybe even a hoped for utopia, but it wasn't reality. Sad but true How is this hatred? It is well documented that Europe was rescued out of the dark ages after its encounter with Islamic civilization. "Dark ages" is what all historians call it because the people living in that space and time WERE living in the dark. I don't agree completely. Please, pardon my English. 
"Dark Ages" as a name for a period of time, a long period of time that is usually dated more or less from the fall of the Western Roman Empire to 1492 (at least this is what history school books tell you, I would start a debate on finding a proper ending-date which I think should be a little bit earlier ), was chosen not considering the 'darkness the people were living in' but just following a common point of view which started being stated and expressed during the Reinassance which was more or less "We have found the Classics and their Apollonian balance again: their figurative forms of art, their literature, their architecture etc... And now we're going to rescue their values from the darkness they fell into". It goes without saying that the Islamic world and especially the Moors (due to their history) were fundamental in preserving many many cultural riches. So, anyway, it is during the Reinassance that this contrast between Dark Ages and what was coming afterwards (or before) was affirmed. But, on with the centuries, that long period of time started being re-examined and re-evaluated. (Yes, it's true life wasn't that easy at that time... but life hasn't been easy at least until the 20th century: we are used to a quite recent kind of living... and we shouldn't forget that nowadays too life isn't that easy in a lot of places on Earth. ) The results of this going back to studying the Dark Ages was to actually figure out what had happened during those long centuries: yes, a world with a strong structure had fallen into pieces and the new structure that was figured out to go on in Europe (The Sacred Roman Empire) showed its weaknesses quite immediately, but there had been also a lot of not so 'dark' expressions of life from a cultural point of view: just think about the writings of St. Agostino, German Minnesaenger, French troubadours, Italian Sicilian Poetry and from there the Dolce Stil Novo, Marian poetry, the developing of modern languages etc.. etc...
I know I can be considered a little bit factious, and I probably am a little bit , but I don't really like these kind of generalizing thinkings: it's just like cutting a soft creamy cake with an axe. The world and the world's history are made more of nouances and 1000 of greys than of blacks and whites.
However, many people are miseducated into thinking that nowhere else, especially Africa, had anything to contribute toward civilization. I for myself would never think a thing like this... but I know I'm not alone on this Planet , which quite reassures me but also makes clear that there will always be discussions and debates and contrasts etc... etc... but as long as people are willing to positively discuss and debate there's nothing better than that! *********************************
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As an aside, I think the reason Prince doesn't release the vault material is that that's the only thing keeping a lot of fans around. Once we've all heard what's left of his great past and all we've got to look forward to in the future is irrelevant, badly written bigotry, it's curtains for the little fella. | |
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lulirom said: NuPwrSoul said: "Hatred toward whitey"? LMAO Wake up. The world was NEVER "Uptown"--that was a fantasy or maybe even a hoped for utopia, but it wasn't reality. Sad but true How is this hatred? It is well documented that Europe was rescued out of the dark ages after its encounter with Islamic civilization. "Dark ages" is what all historians call it because the people living in that space and time WERE living in the dark. I don't agree completely. Please, pardon my English.
"Dark Ages" as a name for a period of time, a long period of time that is usually dated more or less from the fall of the Western Roman Empire to 1492 (at least this is what history school books tell you, I would start a debate on finding a proper ending-date which I think should be a little bit earlier ), was chosen not considering the 'darkness the people were living in' but just following a common point of view which started being stated and expressed during the Reinassance which was more or less "We have found the Classics and their Apollonian balance again: their figurative forms of art, their literature, their architecture etc... And now we're going to rescue their values from the darkness they fell into". It goes without saying that the Islamic world and especially the Moors (due to their history) were fundamental in preserving many many cultural riches. So, anyway, it is during the Reinassance that this contrast between Dark Ages and what was coming afterwards (or before) was affirmed. But, on with the centuries, that long period of time started being re-examined and re-evaluated. (Yes, it's true life wasn't that easy at that time... but life hasn't been easy at least until the 20th century: we are used to a quite recent kind of living... and we shouldn't forget that nowadays too life isn't that easy in a lot of places on Earth. ) The results of this going back to studying the Dark Ages was to actually figure out what had happened during those long centuries: yes, a world with a strong structure had fallen into pieces and the new structure that was figured out to go on in Europe (The Sacred Roman Empire) showed its weaknesses quite immediately, but there had been also a lot of not so 'dark' expressions of life from a cultural point of view: just think about the writings of St. Agostino, German Minnesaenger, French troubadours, Italian Sicilian Poetry and from there the Dolce Stil Novo, Marian poetry, the developing of modern languages etc.. etc...
I know I can be considered a little bit factious, and I probably am a little bit , but I don't really like these kind of generalizing thinkings: it's just like cutting a soft creamy cake with an axe. The world and the world's history are made more of nouances and 1000 of greys than of blacks and whites.
However, many people are miseducated into thinking that nowhere else, especially Africa, had anything to contribute toward civilization. I for myself would never think a thing like this... but I know I'm not alone on this Planet , which quite reassures me but also makes clear that there will always be discussions and debates and contrasts etc... etc... but as long as people are willing to positively discuss and debate there's nothing better than that! You have my respect for your response. I especially agree that history is made more of nuances than stark contrasts. Sadly when it comes to non Europeans however, for hundreds of years, those nuances have gone unappreciated and unacknowledged when examining the dynamics within African civilizations or when examining the impact that Africans had on European civilization. If Prince or anyone for that matter is just discovering some of these nuances, then it does not suprise me that they would express themselves so enthusiastically in a way that belies those nuances... if only to restore balance for the years of miseducation. Given the society we live in, I don't think it will ever be possible to ignore the contributions that Europe and European people have made to the onward march of civilization. So people shouldn't fret and worry. However, the same cannot be said of non-Europeans, and especially Africans. Even when people come bringing a little bit of information to restore the balance, it is most often met with knee jerk reactions of denials or indignation as though some little tidbits can dislodge hundreds of years of indoctrination. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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If a high-profile white artist today (who has a large percentage of black fans) were to describe most Africans at that time in a derogatory manner i.e 'savages', how do you think that would go down?
say Eminem? Prince is gone.  |
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Essence said: Anxiety said: javed said: hasn't Prince been there and done it with the funky thing?, if he wants to use his music to express his point of view on waht he's been learning then whats the problem?. Surely there's enough music in your collection from Prince to keep you satisfied. This is where he's at now, deal with it or leave.
We're not talking about the funk, we're talking about lyrical proficiency. We're talking about the ability to be a good writer. With respect I don't think a whole lot of people are just criticising his writing style, they don't want to hear the hard truths he's bringing moreso. Yup like I said at the NPGMC forum: There is NOTHING that Prince could do to make this sound sweet to the ears of those who wish to live in denial about the African origins of civilization. Nothing. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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NuPwrSoul said: You have my respect for your response. I especially agree that history is made more of nuances than stark contrasts. My pleasure. *********************************
"don't mind me: I'm just jamming" ********************************* | |
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So I have the Moors to thank for Algebra?
 Moors
 I'm firmly planted in denial |
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NuPwrSoul said: Essence said: Anxiety said: javed said: hasn't Prince been there and done it with the funky thing?, if he wants to use his music to express his point of view on waht he's been learning then whats the problem?. Surely there's enough music in your collection from Prince to keep you satisfied. This is where he's at now, deal with it or leave.
We're not talking about the funk, we're talking about lyrical proficiency. We're talking about the ability to be a good writer. With respect I don't think a whole lot of people are just criticising his writing style, they don't want to hear the hard truths he's bringing moreso. Yup like I said at the NPGMC forum: There is NOTHING that Prince could do to make this sound sweet to the ears of those who wish to live in denial about the African origins of civilization. Nothing. maybe not. but, with an ounce of common courtesy, a pinch of sanity, and a lot of honest feedback maybe just MAYBE he can learn to convey his message without making the issues he addresses EVEN WORSE through his manner of addressing them | |
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Marrk said: If a high-profile white artist today (who has a large percentage of black fans) were to describe most Africans at that time in a derogatory manner i.e 'savages', how do you think that would go down?
say Eminem? Prince is gone. Like I said before the biases and power structures have already been strongly slanted towards Europeans so it would be a totally different prospect in the case you describe. Prince's essay here is simply redressing the balance but he's still in a massive minority. | |
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Essence said: By the way, how come none of you critical NPGMC members are raising your grievances over at the site? Only NuPwrSoul's positive thread is there and with minimal feedback.
Not necessarily being critical...I'm just voicing my opinion, if you're talking about me. Plus, I can't access the Club from work (for some reason it just won't come up on the screen and I have the latest Flash, IE, and anything else), which is where I've been for the past 7 hours. And I don't even bother to post on that site when I've been on it. Whether he's right or wrong on the subject matter in these lyrics is irrelevant to me. He may be, he may not be. Don't really know, care, nor will I think about it. It's just so in your face and history like (which it has been with a LOT of his recent work; it's all right to hear at times, but it almost seems like every other new song is trying to preach about somethin' serious), and it makes me wistful for when it was just a good time with his music/lyrics. That's all. | |
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alexnvrmnd said: Essence said: By the way, how come none of you critical NPGMC members are raising your grievances over at the site? Only NuPwrSoul's positive thread is there and with minimal feedback.
Not necessarily being critical...I'm just voicing my opinion, if you're talking about me. Plus, I can't access the Club from work (for some reason it just won't come up on the screen and I have the latest Flash, IE, and anything else), which is where I've been for the past 7 hours. And I don't even bother to post on that site when I've been on it. Whether he's right or wrong on the subject matter in these lyrics is irrelevant to me. He may be, he may not be. Don't really know, care, nor will I think about it. It's just so in your face and history like (which it has been with a LOT of his recent work; it's all right to hear at times, but it almost seems like every other new song is trying to preach about somethin' serious), and it makes me wistful for when it was just a good time with his music/lyrics. That's all. You mean like the dudes playin the violin while the Titanic sunk? "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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Guess we have history specialists here now!!!
There's no racism against whiteys just things from the past turned into lyrics... Have you seen the mission or other films about missionaries and stuff? you'd be surprised of what you'd find inside... But I gotta agree it is "oversimplified" (thinking of the greek thing) this way but hey, this is not so lame. Probably hard to accept for white people... but those are just lyrics... [This message was edited Tue May 20 12:03:35 PDT 2003 by klaatu] "Goodness will guide us when love is inside of us... The Force will be with you, always" | |
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What a lovely set of racist lyrics bigging up the blacks and hating the whites...nice attitude Prince.
Whats that you say?!! It would be different if I swapped the sentiments around?? It would make me a racist pig...how can that be??? | |
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NuPwrSoul said: Prince spoke the truth.
Further it's worth noting that he is celebrating a non-Christian civilization that promoted religious pluralism in its society, which would counter many of the charges people have made alleging that Prince has adopted a "JW or else" worldview. Thank you I Love Purple.... | |
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I dont give a monkey uncle about his religious stance...what I do object to is the (what appears to be) anti-white stance he's beem taking recently,all the chocolat invasion bullshit...and now this piece of filth.
Im sorry but if I wrote soem crap about black people stealing cars there would be outrage!!! Im white,i find it offensive therefore its just as racist as any comment I could amke about anyother ethnic group. Somebodys been hanging around teh black Hitler taht is Larry Graham for a bit too long. Him and Spike Lee are pathetic, they're like a bunch of men hating women but only this time theyve turned to race | |
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purpledoveuk said: I dont give a monkey uncle about his religious stance...what I do object to is the (what appears to be) anti-white stance he's beem taking recently,all the chocolat invasion bullshit...and now this piece of filth.
Im sorry but if I wrote soem crap about black people stealing cars there would be outrage!!! Im white,i find it offensive therefore its just as racist as any comment I could amke about anyother ethnic group. Somebodys been hanging around teh black Hitler taht is Larry Graham for a bit too long. Him and Spike Lee are pathetic, they're like a bunch of men hating women but only this time theyve turned to race Man you are so off base. How does black people stealing cars come into a historical debate? Sounds like a piece of prejudice you just felt like putting out there to me... How does Larry Graham come into this discussion? How does Spike Lee come into this discussion? | |
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Exactly - it was just as prejudice as some of teh thing Prince says- Im glad you took it that way cuz it proved my point.
There is no need to be hammering out this anti-white (OR SO IT SEEMS) attitude that has popped up over the last few years - whats all this "Chocolate Invasion" bullshit, sounds like a hate-mob slogan to me...and why put an unfinished song lyrics out that openly ridicule the Europeans and long hair barbarians...could this really not wait until it was finished,,was the negativity and hate that important to come across?? Larry Graham comes into it cuz,since his appearance on Princes scene, the music has gone down and the propoganda and hating has gone up. Spike Lee comes up because he is no more that a hate spinner hiding behind the guise of a film maker...its no wonder tehy wouldnt let him make ALI. [This message was edited Tue May 20 13:09:36 PDT 2003 by purpledoveuk] | |
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purpledoveuk said: Exactly - it was just as prejudice as some of teh thing Prince says- Im glad you took it that way cuz it proved my point.
There is no need to be hammering out this anti-white (OR SO IT SEEMS) attitude that has popped up over the last few years - whats all this "Chocolate Invasion" bullshit, sounds like a hate-mob slogan to me...and why put an unfinished song lyrics out that openly ridicule the Europeans and long hair barbarians...could this really not wait until it was finished,,was the negativity and hate that important to come across?? Larry Graham comes into it cuz,since his appearance on Princes scene, the music has gone down and the propoganda and hating has gone up. Spike Lee comes up because he is no more that a hate spinner hiding behind the guise of a film maker...its no wonder tehy wouldnt let him make ALI. [This message was edited Tue May 20 13:09:36 PDT 2003 by purpledoveuk] Um get a book and please read. Your ignorance is overflowing. You have clearly not even attempted to read the responses in this thread that explain who the barbarians were in history. Do you even know? Trick ass. And if any moderator even DARES to edit my post go and edit purpledove (dove? lmao at that one) cuz he called Larry Graham a black hitler--I find that statement not only ahistorical, inaccurate, but racist AND anti-semite. How can you compare a musician to a white racist antisemite self-loathing murderer? Did I already call you a trick ass? And guess what, the minute white folk went into Africa and stole black people, the chocolate invasion began. Prince is black. Get over it. And grow some thick skin while you at it. You can't handle a history lesson? You would NEVER survive as a black man or woman in America for ONE DAY--you'd probably go postal the moment a cab refused to pick you up. Europe had all kinds of issues before it benefited from the science and math of the Moors, Africans, and Asians. They had no form of hygiene, hence the rapid spread of the bubonic plague. They thought the world was FLAT!!! How do you think Columbus sailed his ass off? By following the trade routes established by Africans. And using the nautical devices that Muslims developed. This is a historical fact. But you are so far up your own white ass that you flinch at the mention of anything not being all perfect with Europe's history. PUHLESE. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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nupwrsoul, despite how you feel about the CONTENT of the lyrics, how do you feel about their execution? jeez, it looks like one of those fam-submitted poems that i always love so much.
if prince really thinks that he wrote some meaningful, artistic, meaningful lyrics, then i believe he has finally completely lost his mind, b/c they sound so childish. i would be absolutely embarrased to show these to anyone and tell them "it's the newest prince song!" - um, yeah, no thanks. maybe i shouldn't have praised avalanche quite so highly (although i DO think that is simply one of his best songs in years) if it opened up the floodgate for this kind of nonsense. remember during his first marriage, when he wrote love songs? LOTS of them? is prince really just now learning the basics of world history in his mid-40's? No confusion, no tears. No enemies, no fear. No sorrow, no pain. No ball, no chain.
Sex is not love. Love is not sex. Putting words in other people's mouths will only get you elected. Need more sleep than coke or methamphetamine. | |
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yeah ok Im sorry - I apologise for comparing Larry Graham to such a disgusting figure in history.
I just dont appreciate all the hate for teh past that seems to be ooozing form Prince at the moment. Just as he woudl find many things anti-black offensive, Im finding some of his comments offensive. Its as simple as that...as for Spike Lee, try and deny hes not verging on racist himself!!! | |
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comin back in...wtf's goin on here???  | |
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NuPwrSoul said: purpledoveuk said: Exactly - it was just as prejudice as some of teh thing Prince says- Im glad you took it that way cuz it proved my point.
There is no need to be hammering out this anti-white (OR SO IT SEEMS) attitude that has popped up over the last few years - whats all this "Chocolate Invasion" bullshit, sounds like a hate-mob slogan to me...and why put an unfinished song lyrics out that openly ridicule the Europeans and long hair barbarians...could this really not wait until it was finished,,was the negativity and hate that important to come across?? Larry Graham comes into it cuz,since his appearance on Princes scene, the music has gone down and the propoganda and hating has gone up. Spike Lee comes up because he is no more that a hate spinner hiding behind the guise of a film maker...its no wonder tehy wouldnt let him make ALI. [This message was edited Tue May 20 13:09:36 PDT 2003 by purpledoveuk] Um get a book and please read. Your ignorance is overflowing. You have clearly not even attempted to read the responses in this thread that explain who the barbarians were in history. Do you even know? Trick ass. And if any moderator even DARES to edit my post go and edit purpledove (dove? lmao at that one) cuz he called Larry Graham a black hitler--I find that statement not only ahistorical, inaccurate, but racist AND anti-semite. How can you compare a musician to a white racist antisemite self-loathing murderer? Did I already call you a trick ass? And guess what, the minute white folk went into Africa and stole black people, the chocolate invasion began. Prince is black. Get over it. And grow some thick skin while you at it. You can't handle a history lesson? You would NEVER survive as a black man or woman in America for ONE DAY--you'd probably go postal the moment a cab refused to pick you up. Europe had all kinds of issues before it benefited from the science and math of the Moors, Africans, and Asians. They had no form of hygiene, hence the rapid spread of the bubonic plague. They thought the world was FLAT!!! How do you think Columbus sailed his ass off? By following the trade routes established by Africans. And using the nautical devices that Muslims developed. This is a historical fact. But you are so far up your own white ass that you flinch at the mention of anything not being all perfect with Europe's history. PUHLESE. You completely bore me man. You had pretty much lost me with the fact that never once have you not agreed with Prince or defended Prince on this site, but the arrogance that you are making this argument on this thread proves to me that you really don't have anything to say of any relevance. There are TWO sides to all stories man and you just can't grasp that. I will waste no more time reading your posts. | |
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Besides Hitler was a great artist before he turned to teh dark-side...sound familiar? | |
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theblueangel said: nupwrsoul, despite how you feel about the CONTENT of the lyrics, how do you feel about their execution? jeez, it looks like one of those fam-submitted poems that i always love so much.
if prince really thinks that he wrote some meaningful, artistic, meaningful lyrics, then i believe he has finally completely lost his mind, b/c they sound so childish. i would be absolutely embarrased to show these to anyone and tell them "it's the newest prince song!" - um, yeah, no thanks. I said somewhere that it does say "unfinished." And I said somewhere else that people pay $100s of dollars to hear Prince and his band rehearse the same song over and over again not to mention that boring long ass "Making of the Mountains Video" boot that circulates, so why not get a glimpse into what he's doodling about at the moment? The VS room is opposite the Musicology room which has audio samples of sounds he is no doubt playing around with at the moment, so why not look at his notebook of lyrics in the making as well? maybe i shouldn't have praised avalanche quite so highly (although i DO think that is simply one of his best songs in years) if it opened up the floodgate for this kind of nonsense. remember during his first marriage, when he wrote love songs? LOTS of them?
No you should have praise Avalanche it was a beautiful song full of pain and sorrow. is prince really just now learning the basics of world history in his mid-40's?
Umm if he is, he wouldn't be the only one by the looks of the responses in this and other threads discussing this issue. It's funny... on the one hand people are all over this screaming and hollaring like it has no historical basis whatsoever "it's bullshit blah blah blah"... and then when you can't deny it's basis in history, it's now all of a sudden "is Prince just getting around to the basics of world history?" as though what he said is now accepted "yeah we been knowing that all along" Sorry that shit don't fly.  "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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Prince is now daft and  but nobody ever said anything when he sang about fucking his sister, living in some paisley park fantasy in your heart etc? Uh huh..tsk tsk..so typical and expected."Climb in my fur." | |
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lovemachine said: You completely bore me man. You had pretty much lost me with the fact that never once have you not agreed with Prince or defended Prince on this site, but the arrogance that you are making this argument on this thread proves to me that you really don't have anything to say of any relevance. There are TWO sides to all stories man and you just can't grasp that. I will waste no more time reading your posts.
Like I am supposed to give a fuck? Please. Two sides to all stories--the oppressor and the oppressed. How bout that? Batch. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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