2002 taught us several things. Prince can still put out some very good music, & on the live stage, the man has few rivals after over 20 years in the business. He still has a knack for selecting talented, charismatic side(wo)men & still looks good, despite endless fanatical debates over his hairline, various diseases he may have, or the amount of makeup he uses.

It also further emphasized the unfortunate reality that he must either have absolutely no business sense, or that he and those around him (lawyers, and business associates) care precious little for his loyal listeners. Those who complained to the Better Business Bureau, Minnesota State Attorney General's Office & other various outlets had very legitimate reasons for doing so. That is obvious, as those organizations do not make baseless accusations. They examined the evidence presented and found the NPGMC essentially guilty of misrepresenting itself to get the money of club members. Of false advertising.

You would love to believe that "C-Note" & that album that was the remnant of Xenophobia were something that Prince sent members out of the goodness of his heart, wouldn't you? Funny. Even after all of those messages from the club (that some of us received eventually...certainly not from their initial advertisements) that the 2002 club ended on 12/31/02...those releases (and I have the response from Prince's lawyers to the BBB stating so) were the direct result of the efforts of those who believed they were lied to. I won't even get into the fact that the 2002 version of the club was supposed to provide us with CDs (not downloads) & that is one of the reasons I joined in the first place, I'm just saying that those who are sick of people who want what they were told what they would be getting need to realize that they owe quite a bit of what they got last year to us.

Will 2003 be an improvement over last year? I certainly am not interested in finding out. For 2002, we were also promised member chats & that they would use such chats to update & enhance the club & what it offered, were we not? If I'm not mistaken, there was never a single chat, and the club, in its current state, certainly doesn't seem like it has improved. To me, it seems that it has become even more insular and ultimately pointless. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what 2003 members will "receive" after their $25 "donation":

Access to presale seating for a 2003 tour that hasn't even been announced and may not be? Chances are, if at the end of 2003 you complain to the BBB or another similar entity about the fact that Prince did not tour, you will receive a statement from Prince's legal representation...not the club itself...that when & where Prince tours is solely within Prince's purview. You may find yourself wondering that if that is the case, why do they present it as a benefit of your $25 membership "donation?"

Access to ever-changing "rooms" including Reflection, Knowledge & Musicology. I ask you, have they "ever changed" yet? Has everyone been able to access them to their satisfaction? Download, see & save the videoclips? That does not seem to be the case so far.

You will engage transmissions from the next stage of the New Power Generation. In other words, they will e-mail you. Do me a favor...check your Bulk/Junk Mail folders of your Hotmail, Yahoo or AOL accounts. You've got quite a few people e-mailing you there for far less than $25. Better yet, heck your Tori Amos, Beck, R.E.M. & other free fan lists. Not only do they e-mail you relevant news about the artists, they include concert presale passwords free of charge. Imagine that!

Retail you can only get from within the walls of the NPGMC. Wasn't this supposed to be the case last year as well? Member "Xclusive" retail? Apparently, the walls of the NPGMC also include the walls of any venue at which Prince chooses to play. And there, I believe you are spared the rather lofty shipping charges?

You will have the unique & enriching opportunity to sign the club's membership agreement, noting immediately that There r no returns or refunds. Interesting how once inside the agreement, the Princebonics is lost to proper, very legal terminology, in which you forfeit basically every right you have as a consumer. They can ban you from a chatroom if they don't like your language. They can kick you out of a concert if you dare take a picture on a disposable camera. Yet, you cannot ask for a refund. According to their rules, you cannot even use the club's name without permission (Part IX)! Are all of you discussing the club here in possession of signed permission slips from Prince stating that you can do so at prince.org? I sure hope so! You don't want to have your membership cancelled, do you? Oh, I am jealous of members now!

Lastly, you will receive three songs from the new DVD Prince LIVE at the Aladdin Las Vegas. Three songs? A bit shorter than the typical Prince concert, is it not? But rest assured you, as members, will have first crack at being able to buy the full length DVD! Oh yes, you
may not get it for months after it has been made available to the average Jack & Jill in the neighborhood Best Buy, but membership has its privileges!

Feel free to call me a cynic, a naysayer or whatever you like. Then ask yourself if anything written above is untrue? Truth be told, the one legitimate benefit of joining the NPGMC in 2003 is that you will be screwed out of $25, rather than $100! Money well spent!

i'm sure that you're about to be slammed by some of the sheep, doomboogie, but i want to thank you for writing an extremely intelligent, thought-out, insightful and (most importantly) factually correct post.

did i join this year? yeah, i did, b/c i had $25 and it was a friday night and i didn't have a damn thing to do (and i ain't got no suits, let ALONE a bmw, hehe) - and because there was a new song on there. i'm absolutely in love with prince's music - always have been, always will be. so i'll do whatever it takes to get it. however, that doesn't mean that i don't have the right to criticize the "club" or any of prince's other endeavors if (when) they go horribly awry. i also read the letter from prince's attorney, and it does in fact indicate that the c-note, empty room and xpectation downloads were made available at the last minute because of pressure from the BBB and other consumer advocacy groups and legal institutions.

anyway - doomboogie, you're a class act

doomboogie said:

This year so far shows alot more effort than last year. There is also a message board and a chat room with direct and immediate communication with those involved with the site.

As for content, it's a bit sparse but still more than what we had at this time last year. People had trouble getting the video clips to stream, but with a little trickery were able to download them instead. The video clips were too high of a quality to stream, but inadvertently good enough that once you did download them you could burn them to VCD or output to VHS and they look pretty good.

The people running the site are also pretty prompt in responding to concerns and problems.

I hated how the club was ran last year, but they are obviously trying to make the club better this year. $25 is much less of a commitment/obligation this year as well, so i'm not paying for concert perks that i may not be able to use, Im not paying for a particular album that I think sucks. $25 is comparable to what you would pay for most other online memberships, and I don't think we've seen everything that the fee will provide yet. There seems to be plenty more to come.

Alot of time was put into the graphics. These composites of photographic images and 3d rendered shapes are loaded with detail that help bring the site to life. I'm hoping this same attention to detail carries over into other aspects of the club this year.
[This message was edited Sun Apr 27 8:49:06 PDT 2003 by Tom]

Tom said:

Tom, you clearly understand the inner workings of computers, so I have no doubt that your appreciation of the images and 3D shapes is well founded. But do they really work for you? Do the cartoon fantasy images, whatever their quality, create a connection with Prince's music?

For me, the answer is a resounding "NO." Other than placing a few ornamental musical instruments around the site and teasing us with cyberclips that don't stream, the site is utterly devoid of his life's work - the music.

Instead, it's filled with spiritual tangents, anti-business ranting (much of which I agree with), and new age creepiness. I'd tolerate the preachiness if there were a few scraps of information about the music and his plans to make more of it. For that, I suppose I have to read the latest by Alex Hahn.

These comments are not about "negativity." I can hold my own when it comes to love and respect for Prince. I've just reached my limit with the disappointing truth - he probably isn't that cool to hang out with unless he's planning to play music, and the music is 95% of the reason I'm a member of his unusual "club."

Well just to add my nickel (5 cents). I'm sure whomever complains, believes they have a right to, and that's there right (we are in America).

Personally, I've joined the club, and couldn't wait to do so. Compared to the state of the club other years, I'm very impressed with the site and it's little rooms and tricks. Really? What was there to do, at the club last year.

As I've always said, if unsatisfied with the club, 'do not join...'

and if someone complains about the club, let them. as long as you're enjoying what you paid $25 for, then it's your right to do so.

and as far as being ripped off, and signing away your rights as a consumer. We do that everyday, and don't know it. I had to tell a beautiful young lady, that her brand new Sony HDTV Home Theatre package (which is broken, $2519.67), was not under Sony's warranty. Since she didn't get Best Buy's extended service plan ($300) She has to pay $1000.00 in repairs. Gettin back on topic...

$25 sounds alot better than $100. We should give everybody a chance to live and learn, even Prince. Your opinion is well respect 'doomboogie' and the rest of you. Let's all enjoy the year though, rather you're a member or not.

Much Love...

Blue

[This message was edited Sun Apr 27 10:40:16 PDT 2003 by TheBluePrince]

TheMax said:

Its seems like the foundation is being laid to finally start releasing new music. I agree its a bit odd that theres more dogma and politics than actual music (which is the main reason we are there). But there's also two more "Vault" rooms, a stage, a cyberclips room, a reflection room, a VIP room, etc that appear to be where some new tracks are gonna be dropped.

And if the moderators are keeping an eye on the chat rooms and message boards to watch out for cursing, you know they are also seeing your comments, suggestions, and ideas.

The site needs some content, some MUSIC. But the framework of it so far shows alot of promise.

Tom said:

Much Agreed!

Still a great idea, and all-in-all, pretty well executed. At the end of the day, $25 I can live with - although (like someone mentioned recently) MAYBE there's the POSSIBILITY of being asked 4 an extra $75 later in the year 4 'Premium' access (this COULD be what's up that ellusive stair case - maybe not).

In a nutshell - good site, but low on substance once u have scratched thru all the fancy paintwork. 2 be honest, Ive only been 4 or 5 times since I joined - I havent been more, cuz I pretty much know what Im gonna find there. But like I said, $25 - aint a biggie, I dont (as yet...?) feel short-changed. Im giving them the benefit of the doubt and seeing what happens.

The fact that there is some form of (decipherable!) contact between members and the Pixus is a positive and welcomed step in the right direction 2.

My only concern is that this is all a little 2 'Wizard of Oz' - Maybe they should've named the dog eatin the demo tapes 'Toto'. I keep getting this nagging feeling that any moment now, it's gonna run and pull a curtain open 2 reveal...

Tom said:

Good point there tho Tom buddy.

What's perhaps even more tragic about the current incarnation of the club than its sparse offerings to "donors," is the fact that it totally alienates the casual fan from exposure to Prince's music. I am sure that this has been touched on before, but no casual fan who reads about NPGMC in a press release or hears about it at a concert is going to be thrilled about paying $25 just to get beyond the login screen. You can get substantial biographical information on Prince, information on his various releases and all sorts of other things here on prince.org, ubl.com or any number of other sites. For an official resource on all things Paisley Park, NPGMC is not very impressive. As it exists now, it's little better than a commercial venture devoid of information for potential new fans, no matter how close it claims to bring the "fams" together.

Complainers will always complain.
The will register over and over every year, and complain again and again.

I'm just having fun watching it.

You could be right there but I was called a complainer because I was unhappy that I didnt get Rave in the first year...was that unreasonable afterall it was one of teh reasons we all joined isnt it?!

This year Im happy so far...some peopel only see what they want to when it comes to NPGMC.

Prince is the Pied Piper to some people...to others he just a pop star with ambitions SOMETIMES a little to big for his ability.

I'm enjoying it. Sorry you're not...

If you are refering to me Therapy...Im REALLY,REALLY enjoying it this year...but I cant deny Ive had probs in the past but they seem to have learned from this and arent ofering thing beyond their means this year.

top post doomboogie

honest & telling it the way it is.
im a Prince fans for music.
if i wanted video games & graphics i would be at SuperMario.org...not Prince.org

eXACtly. i mean, in addition to the music, y'know, cool. but as a substitute? i'm not so sure they can accurately call it a music club so far this year...what little new material they made available was yanked after 3 days, indicating to me that it was just another of npgmc's tricks to get people to sign up.

all the people who were in the chat room the other night and were simply appalled when i said FUCK might want to consider the fact that the first month of year one he released songs from the vault, unedited (i.e., muthafucka's intact). remember splash? was there ever another legit vault track released through the club? i can't think of one. it was just a ploy to part people with their money, which i'm sorry to say seems to be all prince really cares about beyond pleasing himself. he certainly doesn't seem to have love4oneanother, unless another means fellow jehovah's witnesses.

i'd LOVE for him to prove me wrong about any and all of the things i just said.

joshy84au said: if i wanted video games & graphics i would be at SuperMario.org...not Prince.org

I don't have time to read all that shit but I agree that the complaints need to stop - complaints about the site, about people who like the site, people who hate it, the Org vs. NPGMC, all that shit...

HOLY SHIT! i usually complain about the complainers but HOLY SHIT! u hit the nail on the head.. sorta like MEATLOAF ...u took the words right outta my mouth.. DAYUM!

i agree that this year they have managed to be less than less than forthcoming about what or anything they may offer to us for spending the money...

did i? well just to save any position i may or may have, i will leave that up for consideration... and my org name would certainly not be the same as the mc name, and the emails would be different.

i have been a prince fan for over 20 years, so if he were selling shit stained toilet tissue for 25 cents, i would buy one, it's just habit for me to purchase everything, and to own everything i can personally get my hands on.

i complain about the complainers who bitch and moan about the stupid stuff, like "it's been 2 hours since i joined and i haven't recieved a cd in the mail yet, this club is a rip off." logical complaints about not getting what they promise as far as what the cd will be is a different story.

but for me i take it as it comes, because i am a die - hard and i would join if we were promised ___(u fill in the blanks)

i do think u hit it right, tho. there are limitations.

as far as the chatrooms go, if u read the agreement, that u have to agree to to get a membership, it says u cannot do that, so if u get banned, it's on u. as far as being vague(if that is even a reasonable term for it) and not promising anything, that is his way of wiping his hands of it, and giving only what he wants to give.

if he doesn't tour this year, oh well, it's not like he hit my city in year one or year 2 so i can't count on that. if we get a deal on the dvd, i will order it(it only took 10 days to get my other purchases) and if i don't have it by release date, i will purchase it, and leave the later recieved unopened in my collection.

but there are those that will only join if they are promised something, and the ones who felt ripped off last year will and have joined this year and it's just as simple as this..

DON'T COUNT ON GETTING A MF'N THING UNTIL IT ARRIVES IN YOUR MAIL! same goes for life, don't count on it till u get it.

i have said my peace, but once more, u said it best, u made an educated and well written point, and i have to give u props..

CalhounSq said:

when people have paid money 2 access it...then they have every right 2 complain.

when u buy a product at a store,if it is unsatisfactory u can go back,or call a hotline & complain.
why is it different just cos Prince is running the show?

(yes i know I havent paid up,but since i read all the goings-on here i feel i am in the know somewhat
& air my opinions)

You know what the club does need? WNPG Radio. It could really use a music station while we are in there on the chat etc..Old stuff, new, remixes, I don't care. Just have a station going 24/7.

What do you all think? If you agree please check out the U TELL US section of the site under "WNPG RADIO"

Peeeace.

doomboogie said:

Well said (finally somebody had the balls to say it)

I never understood what the BBB had to do with anything & why Orgers on the sidelines thought that the BBB did anything but assist in forcing NPGMC to answer legit complaints that they were failing to answer.

As far as the false advertising.. NPGMC is on a short leash as they were reported to the US Federal Postal Inspectors for proven "Mail Fraud" which can land a non-celeb in jail.

I doubt you'll see any offers made outside the paid members only section of the website this year. Prince has herded some of his sheep into a nice white fenced corral this year where he'll have freedom to dictate his version of (business) reality. I think its a good strategy to keep both markets happy.

I do wish this club was more about MUSIC this year, but I'm not gonna bitch yet because it just started a week and a half ago. I mean, really. It has plenty of potential for MUSIC, so there's where I'm holding out hope (even though there could be more there than what is right now). If by close to the end of the year it's mostly still all smoke and mirrors, then I'll be disappointed!! But so far, when it's not even two weeks old, I don't have too much shit to say on it, musically.