I am "prohibited" from using or accessing 3reygirl.com. Simply because I do not agree with all the website's terms and conditions of use, or terms of service.

The terms say:

Web Site Terms and Conditions of Use

1. Terms

By accessing this web site, you are agreeing to be bound by these web site Terms and Conditions of Use, all applicable laws and regulations, and agree that you are responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. If you do not agree with any of these terms, you are prohibited from using or accessing this site.

The fact of the matter is, that by accessing the website, I do agree to be bound by all applicable law and regulations, and also that I am responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. But I do not agree with all the site terms and conditions of use that are set on me by the website.

So, now I am prohibited from using or accessing this site, says the terms.

Why do I not agree with the terms? Well for one, beause they prohibit me from using or even accessing the site when I do not agree with any and all conditions it sets.

But there are several more terms and conditions of use that I do not agree with. Let me pick out just one for now, for the sake of simplicity.

Under paragraph 2 of the terms it says:

2. Use License

1. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on NPG Records’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:
   1. modify or copy the materials;
   2. use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
   3. attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on NPG Records’s web site;
   4. remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
   5. transfer the materials to another person or “mirror” the materials on any other server.
2. This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by NPG Records at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

What this simply put says is, that when I buy a song on 3rdeyegirl.com, I do not own the copy of the song that I pay for to download. It's not like when I go into a record store when I buy a copy and own it, and therefore can sell it or lend it or make copies for personal, non commercial use of it. On 3rdeyegirl.com I only buy a "license" or conditional permission to "temporarily download one copy".

That one copy is "for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only". Transitory meaning only temporarily, meaning one day, who knows when, I might not be allowed to view or listen to my legally purchased copy any longer. Moreover, I am also not allowed to make any copies of the material, not even for personal, non-commercial purposes. Since I may only make one copy and not make any copies of that copy.

Strictly and all lawyery speaking this means that when I buy a song from 3rdeyegirl , I may only listen to it on the device that I download it on. Since I am only allowed to make one copy. That means that if I download it on my computer, I am not in my rights to transfer a copy to my Ipod for example, or make a CD of it and listen to it on my stereo, or in the car, or wherever. Let alone sell my legally purchased copy to anyone.

Since I only bought a "license", a permission to make and listen to only one copy. But in my country, the Netherlands, the law says that I am allowed to make a copy for my personal use. That's "my applicable local law". So why would I sign that away? They even ask me to comply with my local laws, but this way they are not complying with mine. So I simply don't agree with doing that.

Of course I could say: who cares? Copy away! But I would ask then: what are these terms of service really worth then and why do you force me to agree with them? For sure, if hypothetically speaking, there were ever any lawsuit about it (you never know with Prince), these terms would be worth a lot. But would a lawsuit be worth it in the first place? I don't think so.

Then why still force your customers to agree to such draconic terms? Why not be just a little bit more fair and realistic, less controlling and most of all more practical.

No, no go for me. And I am not going to download it illegally either. I think I will just PASS (again).

__

[Edited 6/22/13 5:20am]

^ Tremolina doesn't the fact you can copy the files in the Netherlands overrule those terms of service?

I would assume these are standard terms and conditions probably copied from another site.

I don't really think you are missing much

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Tremolina doesn't the fact you can copy the files in the Netherlands overrule those terms of service?

That's a good question.

I of course would tend to say that they do, but if I would be frank, I can not say for sure, because the case for that still has to be filed, made and won.

But you know, I am just a little Dutch guy, who may still be in his legal rights if he makes copies for personal use, and perhabs even also be in my rights, if I lawfully sell one of my legally purchased copies.

But most customers of 3rdeyegirl.com aren't. And after agreeing to this, they simply have no rights whatsoever.

But it is just POINTLESS: of course "NPG records/3rdeygirl/Prince" KNOW people will copy material more than the terms allow for. Obviously, because they are not allowed to to do anything.

I do not support this kind of ignorance. It proves Prince and his people still don't get it.

Tough shit for 3rdeyegirl.com. Another potential good customer lost. And again.

--

[Edited 6/20/13 13:59pm]

I applaud you for actually taking the time to read a User Agreement. That's got to be a first on the Internet!

However, I think this issue is right up there with the "Body by Buddha" rant.

I am as law-abiding a person as there is. But I also was a member of the NPG Music Club, and Lotu$Flower, and those were absolute screwings/screw-ups by Prince.

You'd better believe I have CD copies of anything and everything I buy from Prince. Multiple copies, in fact.

^ Trem did you know that even on old records you didn't have the right to make tape recordings and they are all technically illegal yet because it wasn't enforced everyone did it and got away with it (ridiculous rule anyway)? As Prince once said stopping sharing music is like trying to stop rain.

So i would download and ignore it because it's not enforceable. Double check the ITUNES terms as they probably copied them verbatim from them.

RodeoSchro said:

I applaud you for actually taking the time to read a User Agreement. That's got to be a first on the Internet!

However, I think this issue is right up there with the "Body by Buddha" rant.

I am as law-abiding a person as there is. But I also was a member of the NPG Music Club, and Lotu$Flower, and those were absolute screwings/screw-ups by Prince.

You'd better believe I have CD copies of anything and everything I buy from Prince. Multiple copies, in fact.

It's only because of this that I can still listen to the NPGMC tracks! The reason they stopped working was due the NPGMC removing the licence file even though we all legally paid for them!

RodeoSchro said:

I applaud you for actually taking the time to read a User Agreement. That's got to be a first on the Internet!

However, I think this issue is right up there with the "Body by Buddha" rant.

I am as law-abiding a person as there is. But I also was a member of the NPG Music Club, and Lotu$Flower, and those were absolute screwings/screw-ups by Prince.

You'd better believe I have CD copies of anything and everything I buy from Prince. Multiple copies, in fact.

smart man

RodeoSchro said:

I applaud you for actually taking the time to read a User Agreement. That's got to be a first on the Internet!

However, I think this issue is right up there with the "Body by Buddha" rant.

I am as law-abiding a person as there is. But I also was a member of the NPG Music Club, and Lotu$Flower, and those were absolute screwings/screw-ups by Prince.

You'd better believe I have CD copies of anything and everything I buy from Prince. Multiple copies, in fact.

Well, you are not that law abiding then, because that makes you liable for breach of contract/license and potential copyright infringement.

You know, it's no big deal for me to read such terms. And in fact, I have to give it to them, the terms are very accesible and clear.

Therefore, they have all the more chance to stand up in court.

Tremolina said:

RodeoSchro said:

I applaud you for actually taking the time to read a User Agreement. That's got to be a first on the Internet!

However, I think this issue is right up there with the "Body by Buddha" rant.

I am as law-abiding a person as there is. But I also was a member of the NPG Music Club, and Lotu$Flower, and those were absolute screwings/screw-ups by Prince.

You'd better believe I have CD copies of anything and everything I buy from Prince. Multiple copies, in fact.

Well, you are not that law abiding then, because that makes you liable for breach of contract/license and potential copyright infringement.

You know, it's no big deal for me to read such terms. And in fact, I have to give it to them, the terms are very accesible and clear.

Therefore, they have all the more chance to stand up in court.

Oh.

Well in that case, I never did any of the stuff in my post!

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Trem did you know that even on old records you didn't have the right to make tape recordings and they are all technically illegal yet because it wasn't enforced everyone did it and got away with it (ridiculous rule anyway)? As Prince once said stopping sharing music is like trying to stop rain.

So i would download and ignore it because it's not enforceable. Double check the ITUNES terms as they probably copied them verbatim from them.

Look, I am not saying that I couldn't just (illegally) download it and copy the shit out of it.

I am saying, it's a matter of principle. I won't do that, nor will I buy it. To me it's all just ignorant and I don't want to support any of it.

Anybody else may disagree, I could understand, but that's not me.

Oh and I don't buy on i-tunes either.


-_

[Edited 6/20/13 14:10pm]

Tremolina said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Tremolina doesn't the fact you can copy the files in the Netherlands overrule those terms of service?

That's a good question.

I of course would tend to say that they do, but if I would be frank, I can not say for sure, because the case for that still has to be filed, made and won.

But you know, I am just a little Dutch guy, who may still be in his legal rights if he makes copies for personal use, and perhabs even also be in my rights, if I lawfully sell one of my legally purchased copies.

But most customers of 3rdeyegirl.com aren't. And after agreeing to this, they simply have no rights whatsoever.

But it is just POINTLESS: of course "NPG records/3rdeygirl/Prince" KNOW people will copy material more than the terms allow for. Obviosuly, because they are not allowed to to do anything.

I do not support this.

Tough shit for 3rdeyegirl.com. Another potential good customer lost. And again.

--

[Edited 6/20/13 13:57pm]

You're making a big deal out of nothing here. This is standard terms of use boilerplate (trust me, I run artist websites for a living), designed to protect the operators in the event of possible legal issue.

Not only is there no way for 3rdEyeGirl to know what you do with files you've purchased, but there's no reason to believe they'd attempt to enforce this even if they could.

Tremolina > It seems like you are getting too caught up in legalese! I mean if you followed all the laws you couldn't live!!! We still have some laws in this country that say it's OK to kill a Welshman in a certain town! Who does it though!?

I bet you used to copy tapes from vinyl records so you've done it already!!!

[Edited 6/20/13 14:12pm]

TwiliteKid said:

Tremolina said:

That's a good question.

I of course would tend to say that they do, but if I would be frank, I can not say for sure, because the case for that still has to be filed, made and won.

But you know, I am just a little Dutch guy, who may still be in his legal rights if he makes copies for personal use, and perhabs even also be in my rights, if I lawfully sell one of my legally purchased copies.

But most customers of 3rdeyegirl.com aren't. And after agreeing to this, they simply have no rights whatsoever.

But it is just POINTLESS: of course "NPG records/3rdeygirl/Prince" KNOW people will copy material more than the terms allow for. Obviosuly, because they are not allowed to to do anything.

I do not support this.

Tough shit for 3rdeyegirl.com. Another potential good customer lost. And again.

--

[Edited 6/20/13 13:57pm]

You're making a big deal out of nothing here. This is standard terms of use boilerplate (trust me, I run artist websites for a living), designed to protect the operators in the event of possible legal issue.

Not only is there no way for 3rdEyeGirl to know what you do with files you've purchased, but there's no reason to believe they'd attempt to enforce this even if they could.

The first, you may be right with that. But I am not saying you have to make a big deal out of it too. I am only saying that I am and I explained above why.

The second, I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina > It seems like you are getting too caught up in legalese! I mean if you followed all the laws you couldn't live!!! We still have some laws in this country that say it's OK to kill a Welshman in a certain town! Who does it though!?

I bet you used to copy tapes from vinyl records so you've done it already!!!

[Edited 6/20/13 14:12pm]

Damn I think we all did that

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina > It seems like you are getting too caught up in legalese! I mean if you followed all the laws you couldn't live!!! We still have some laws in this country that say it's OK to kill a Welshman in a certain town! Who does it though!?

I bet you used to copy tapes from vinyl records so you've done it already!!!

[Edited 6/20/13 14:12pm]

Dude, I am a lawyer/attorney!

Moreover, I SPECIALISE in Copyright law and relating fields of law.

nursev said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina > It seems like you are getting too caught up in legalese! I mean if you followed all the laws you couldn't live!!! We still have some laws in this country that say it's OK to kill a Welshman in a certain town! Who does it though!?

I bet you used to copy tapes from vinyl records so you've done it already!!!

[Edited 6/20/13 14:12pm]

Damn I think we all did that

Yes, but you didn't agree with a draconic contract first.

Tremolina Ah, i see you're saying this on record in case Prince.org gets raided and has to handover details of users!!! Clever lol

You're not at work now, so chill.

[Edited 6/20/13 14:15pm]

Tremolina said:

TwiliteKid said:

You're making a big deal out of nothing here. This is standard terms of use boilerplate (trust me, I run artist websites for a living), designed to protect the operators in the event of possible legal issue.

Not only is there no way for 3rdEyeGirl to know what you do with files you've purchased, but there's no reason to believe they'd attempt to enforce this even if they could.

The first, you may be right with that. But I am not saying you have to make a big deal out of it too. I am only saying that I am and I explained above why.

The second, I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you.

I read your explanation. It's still an overreaction.

And what shouldn't I be sure about? That they can't tell what you're doing with your files? I'm positive. No such tracking exists.

^ you would be surprised about the power of the law, as soon as it hits you in the face.

or the org.


Now, for real, of course I understand you guys. What you are saying is considered to be "normal". Or the "norm". But that's only the SOCIAL NORM.

Not the legal one.

And since I am a legal one, and Princey isn't too shy to file a lawsuit here and there either, try to see it from that point of view also please.

Okay?

nursev said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina > It seems like you are getting too caught up in legalese! I mean if you followed all the laws you couldn't live!!! We still have some laws in this country that say it's OK to kill a Welshman in a certain town! Who does it though!?

I bet you used to copy tapes from vinyl records so you've done it already!!!

[Edited 6/20/13 14:12pm]

Damn I think we all did that

Me too....it was one of those laws never enforced and would have been massively unpopular if it was although would have been practically impossible.

Tremolina said:

^ you would be surprised about the power of the law, as soon as it hits you in the face.

or the org.


Now, for real, of course I understand you guys. What you are saying is considered to be "normal". Or the "norm". But that's only the SOCIAL NORM.

Not the legal one.

And since I am a legal one, and Princey isn't too shy to file a lawsuit here and there either, try to see it from that point of view also please.

Okay?

Again, it's a policy they can't enforce. If you were to post the track online, that would be a different matter and they could use this same clause to do just that, but you can do whatever you like privately at absolutley zero risk.

TwiliteKid said:

Tremolina said:

^ you would be surprised about the power of the law, as soon as it hits you in the face.

or the org.


Now, for real, of course I understand you guys. What you are saying is considered to be "normal". Or the "norm". But that's only the SOCIAL NORM.

Not the legal one.

And since I am a legal one, and Princey isn't too shy to file a lawsuit here and there either, try to see it from that point of view also please.

Okay?

Again, it's a policy they can't enforce. If you were to post the track online, that would be a different matter and they could use this same clause to do just that, but you can do whatever you like privately at absolutley zero risk.

As you say.

I know that about 10 years ago, the NPG Music Club terms did allow to make copies for personal, non-commercial use.

The terms didn't specify your purchase as strictly "license" either, let alone a "temporary" one. It was a much more reasonable sale.

Ignoring that you agreed to such a thing, would never hold up in court. Since that is what you literally and very clearly "bind" yourself to when you agree to buy from this website. You can claim that it's all "standard" or "not enforceable", but that is only partly true and not the whole story.




--

[Edited 6/20/13 14:36pm]

If I took the time to read and comprehend every terms of use agreement put in front of me to click I would still be trying to sign up for Itunes. I've probably agreed to all kinds of crazy stuff. They could be coming to turn me into a Human Cent-Ipad.

I just don't sweat it.

If that's not a good enough answer for you, then by all means, stay off the internet. Don't let people make you do anything you don't want to do.

You won't be able to access their websites but you will have a lot of confidence that the long arm of the law is not coming after you.

If you are saying you should be able to access it without signing that agreement, well, you might have to argue that point with them. It's their site and they're within their rights to set terms of use.

I haven't paid for any 3eg downloads, even though I was tempted, I would only ever pay for MP3 that I owned. I'm not paying for a license fee that can be revoked when Prince changes webservers.

That's just my decision that the product isn't worth the asking price.

bobzilla77 said:

If I took the time to read and comprehend every terms of use agreement put in front of me to click I would still be trying to sign up for Itunes. I've probably agreed to all kinds of crazy stuff. They could be coming to turn me into a Human Cent-Ipad.

I just don't sweat it.

If that's not a good enough answer for you, then by all means, stay off the internet. Don't let people make you do anything you don't want to do.

You won't be able to access their websites but you will have a lot of confidence that the long arm of the law is not coming after you.

If you are saying you should be able to access it without signing that agreement, well, you might have to argue that point with them. It's their site and they're within their rights to set terms of use.

I haven't paid for any 3eg downloads, even though I was tempted, I would only ever pay for MP3 that I owned.

I'm not paying for a license fee that can be revoked when Prince changes webservers.

That's just my decision that the product isn't worth the asking price.

Uhm, I think I made it clear that is why I also decide not to purchase.

Boy, do people read more than 2 lines of my posts or what?

This. Pretty much.

^

Next time I have a case on such matters, I might use that in court! (would that be copyright infringement?)

"And they made us liars [..] you have said you have read the terms and conditions".


However, I am afraid most judges would say: yup, you lied.


__

[Edited 6/20/13 14:52pm]

^ Don't stress Trem...just head to the Vondelpark for a drink or a smoke...that'll chill u !

Oh and again, to be fair to 3rdeye girl.com:

The terms are very clear and concise. No more than one page of text

with clear, understandable language,

language that any person, low or highly educated,

can simply understand,

within no more than 5 to 10 minutes of their time.

__

[Edited 6/20/13 15:00pm]