errant said:

Graycap23 said:

I have a sneaky suspicion that some people actually KNOW a great deal about music and how is is supposed 2 sound while other simple don't care.

if it only exists as a 320 kbps mp3 and nothing "better" has ever been heard then they don't know how it's "supposed" to sound.

I'm talking about music in general not these specific tracks.

HonestMan13 said:

Audio nerds go get laid already, it's 13 pages in and y'all are still whining about MP3s. Nerds!!!

TheEnglishGent said:

Graycap23 said:

I have a sneaky suspicion that some people actually KNOW a great deal about music and how is is supposed 2 sound while other simple don't care.

I would say most don't care so long as it's not stupidly bad, I'm quite content listening to iTunes stuff if that's all I'm listening to. In know it's not the best, can tell in a blind testm, but don't really care. I'd say it's even more true for the younger generation where music has been largely reduced to something that's expected to be freely downloaded and not paid for.

For what it's worth, Breakfast Can Wait is a 320k mp3 sounds bad to me. Not because of the encoding but becasue of all the damn clipping. It hurts my ears!

I hear u.

IMHO Mp3's is going backways as it relates 2 the relationship bewtween consumers and those who make music. It's like going back 2 the stone ages when u have the option not 2.

TheEnglishGent said:

errant said:

I agree. Unfortunately, it probably wouldn't sound any better on a CD because that's how he's mastered his last several albums.

I know and it's really sad. I'd actually rather have a 256k mp3 from a properly mastered source than a clipped cd. This is a far worse crime to the material than iTunes downloads. But hey it's CD, so it must be awesome.

agreed. that's why I've made my peace with mp3/aac. it's incredibly difficult to find albums these days that DON'T have this issue. "mastered for iTunes" seems to be a weird, unsatisfying move in the right direction. but if people wouldn't master albums so loud to begin with, it would be completely unnecessary. but at the moment, I prefer it to most albums that I come across these days.

Graycap23 said:

TheEnglishGent said:

I would say most don't care so long as it's not stupidly bad, I'm quite content listening to iTunes stuff if that's all I'm listening to. In know it's not the best, can tell in a blind testm, but don't really care. I'd say it's even more true for the younger generation where music has been largely reduced to something that's expected to be freely downloaded and not paid for.

For what it's worth, Breakfast Can Wait is a 320k mp3 sounds bad to me. Not because of the encoding but becasue of all the damn clipping. It hurts my ears!

I hear u.

IMHO Mp3's is going backways as it relates 2 the relationship bewtween consumers and those who make music. It's like going back 2 the stone ages when u have the option not 2.

it does have the benefit of getting music directly to the consumer in a much quicker, more efficient and cost-effective way, especially since most people at this point are just going to rip it to their computer, phone or mp3 player anyway.

it's not ideal. but it is extremely convenient and a step forward in the relationship between consumers and those who make music.

errant said:

Graycap23 said:

I hear u.

IMHO Mp3's is going backways as it relates 2 the relationship bewtween consumers and those who make music. It's like going back 2 the stone ages when u have the option not 2.

it does have the benefit of getting music directly to the consumer in a much quicker, more efficient and cost-effective way, especially since most people at this point are just going to rip it to their computer, phone or mp3 player anyway.

it's not ideal. but it is extremely convenient and a step forward in the relationship between consumers and those who make music.

It takes no more effort 2 put an AIFF or wave file out there than it does a Mp3.

Graycap23 said:

errant said:

it does have the benefit of getting music directly to the consumer in a much quicker, more efficient and cost-effective way, especially since most people at this point are just going to rip it to their computer, phone or mp3 player anyway.

it's not ideal. but it is extremely convenient and a step forward in the relationship between consumers and those who make music.

It takes no more effort 2 put an AIFF or wave file out there than it does a Mp3.

that's true, but it does take more bandwidth to download it and effort to tag it (in the case of a WAV anyway).

I'd prefer a lossless version as well, but economically, it doesn't always make sense, sine the majority of people who are even potential customers are going to down-convert it to fit on their phone anyway.

and that does, shockingly enough, even include Prince fans.

hell, we're moving into an era where people barely even want to bother with owning music at all and would rather stream it from Pandora, Spotify, or satellite radio.

[Edited 2/6/13 8:04am]

Graycap23 said:

errant said:

it does have the benefit of getting music directly to the consumer in a much quicker, more efficient and cost-effective way, especially since most people at this point are just going to rip it to their computer, phone or mp3 player anyway.

it's not ideal. but it is extremely convenient and a step forward in the relationship between consumers and those who make music.

It takes no more effort 2 put an AIFF or wave file out there than it does a Mp3.

That's very true and with the rapid advances in download speeds and declining storage costs the point of mp3 is getting lost. Still fine for my phone though where having a massive library on the move with limited storage is awesome.

errant said:

Graycap23 said:

It takes no more effort 2 put an AIFF or wave file out there than it does a Mp3.

that's true, but it does take more bandwidth to download it and effort to tag it (in the case of a WAV anyway).

I'd prefer a lossless version as well, but economically, it doesn't always make sense, sine the majority of people who are even potential customers are going to down-convert it to fit on their phone anyway.

and that does, shockingly enough, even include Prince fans.

hell, we're moving into an era where people barely even want to bother with owning music at all and would rather stream it from Pandora, Spotify, or satellite radio.

[Edited 2/6/13 8:04am]

Honestly the arugent about the "majority" of people means nothing 2 me.

Why would anyone want 2 go from Blu-ray to an old VHS tape? That is what mp3's are........

TheEnglishGent said:

inspireof said:

Perhaps it's a Euro thing because I did refresh 3x and the site still works fine here!

Sorry but not sure what's up in your end...

Sounds like you're viewing a cached version. What are you using to view? If a PC, try pressing ctrl + F5. On a Mac try command+r.

I'm using pc laptop with windows 8, I tried chrome and IE and both work but on my iphone safari browser the site doesn't work...

I pressed ctrl f5 on laptop too and still able to see the site...

Oh well I like my "cached" version better then so I can watch the videos hehehe

thanks for the input...

inspireof said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Sounds like you're viewing a cached version. What are you using to view? If a PC, try pressing ctrl + F5. On a Mac try command+r.

I'm using pc laptop with windows 8, I tried chrome and IE and both work but on my iphone safari browser the site doesn't work...

I pressed ctrl f5 on laptop too and still able to see the site...

Oh well I like my "cached" version better then so I can watch the videos hehehe

thanks for the input...

Fair enough.

Hope you don't miss out on the new site when it goes live though!

errant said:

NDRU said:

errant said:

I agree. Unfortunately, it probably wouldn't sound any better on a CD because that's how he's mastered his last several albums.

Still, to my ears, the WAV of screwdriver sounds the best of the four songs. I am not sure which part of the process caused it, but I suspect that it's every part of the process that matters, from engineering to recording to mixing to mastering and the format. Breakfast can wait is filler material, and I think it got filler treatment. I think he put more care into the original version of screwdriver and it shows [Edited 2/6/13 8:30am]

I bought the Screwdriver wav from Purple Music and the Remix mp3 from 3rdeyegirl. On my high quality home system AND on my crap car stereo the difference is clear. The wav sounds better...

But, here's the thing. I also converted the wav to mp3 for the ipod. The mp3 conversion of the wav from Purple Music sounds MUCH better than the mp3 of the Remix from 3rdeyegirl.

So, it's not JUST format at issue. I would say the original version was also mixed and/or mastered better than the remix.

Just my 12 cents. (inflation )

djThunderfunk said:

djThunderfunk said:

I bought the Screwdriver wav from Purple Music and the Remix mp3 from 3rdeyegirl. On my high quality home system AND on my crap car stereo the difference is clear. The wav sounds better...

Well done, you have just compared an apple to an orange!

For what it's worth the wav on 3rd eye is clipped to all kinds of buggery and is not an example of audiophile material. It's obvious and not nice.

An excerpt from the 'awesome' screwdriver wav, one of the snare hits.

See where there's those large areas of flat lines at the peaks and troughs, that is clipping where the sound gets distorted. This is not the exception, pretty much every single beat is clipped like this, an awful lot is missing from this 'lossless' file. This sort of stuff sounds far worse to me than mp3 artefacts. It's pretty much how all pop music is these days and I don't understand how professional recording engineers allow it to happen.

But hey, it's a wav, wicked.

[Edited 2/6/13 8:58am]

TheEnglishGent said:

divo02 said:

I know I'm an idiot but....

So I paid for the songs but now how do I download them? Right after I got to the payment confirmation screen, Safari "unexpectedly" quit however I got my confirmation e-mail. I paid via CC instead of Pay Pal.

Can anyone help?

If you made an account try:

http://3rdeyegirl.com/my-account/

Otherwise maybe:

http://3rdeyegirl.com/order-tracking/

How do I "create an account"? I can find the log in screen but don't remember being asked to create an account or pick a password. It was pretty weird buying the songs and then having to dig around to find my download links too. I had to keep hitting the "back" button until I got to the purchase page. You'd think they'd just be sitting there waiting for download.

edit:

Fuck. Can we make a separate thread for all the mp3/wav/lossless techno talk? It's really starting to shit up this thread.

[Edited 2/6/13 9:04am]

TheEnglishGent said:

djThunderfunk said:

I bought the Screwdriver wav from Purple Music and the Remix mp3 from 3rdeyegirl. On my high quality home system AND on my crap car stereo the difference is clear. The wav sounds better...

Well done, you have just compared an apple to an orange!

For what it's worth the wav on 3rd eye is clipped to all kinds of buggery and is not an example of audiophile material. It's obvious and not nice.

An excerpt from the 'awesome' screwdriver wav, one of the snare hits.

See where there's those large areas of flat lines at the peaks and troughs, that is clipping where the sound gets distorted. This is not the exception, pretty much every single beat is clipped like this, an awful lot is missing from this 'lossless' file. This sort of stuff sounds far worse to me than mp3 artefacts. It's pretty much how all pop music is these days and I don't understand how professional recording engineers allow it to happen.

But hey, it's a wav, wicked.

[Edited 2/6/13 8:58am]

No apples & oranges here, I'm comparing how they SOUND on good and bad systems.

And for the record, the Purple Music version clips, too. I examined the file in Soundforge before converting for the iPod. But, EVERYTHING released these days is mastered this way. It is unfortunately the current industry standard and will be seen examining CDs, wavs or mp3s.

That said, since all the files have this issue, I'm focusing on how they sound through my system, on my crap car stereo and on the iPod. In all these the wav (and the mp3 conversion from it) of the original have much more clarity than the mp3 of the remix.

herb4 said:

TheEnglishGent said:

If you made an account try:

http://3rdeyegirl.com/my-account/

Otherwise maybe:

http://3rdeyegirl.com/order-tracking/

How do I "create an account"? I can find the log in screen but don't remember being asked to create an account or pick a password. It was pretty weird buying the songs and then having to dig around to find my download links too. I had to keep hitting the "back" button until I got to the purchase page. You'd think they'd just be sitting there waiting for download.

edit:

Fuck. Can we make a separate thread for all the mp3/wav/lossless techno talk? It's really starting to shit up this thread.

[Edited 2/6/13 9:04am]

Account was created at first purchase, there was an option to choose a user name.

Sorry about the tech talk but it is directly related to the music.

djThunderfunk said:

No apples & oranges here, I'm comparing how they SOUND on good and bad systems.

But you're comparing different songs . Convert the wav to a 320k mp3 and see if you can still tell the difference.

And for the record, the Purple Music version clips, too. I examined the file in Soundforge before converting for the iPod. But, EVERYTHING released these days is mastered this way. It is unfortunately the current industry standard and will be seen examining CDs, wavs or mp3s.

Yes, that's whay I was saying. The mastering is killing the music far more than mp3. I was just demonstrating that the wav is still shit and audibly so, even to me with my shitty ears that can't tell the difference between a wav and the same wav converted to 320k mp3.

TheEnglishGent said:

djThunderfunk said:

No apples & oranges here, I'm comparing how they SOUND on good and bad systems.

But you're comparing different songs . Convert the wav to a 320k mp3 and see if you can still tell the difference.

And for the record, the Purple Music version clips, too. I examined the file in Soundforge before converting for the iPod. But, EVERYTHING released these days is mastered this way. It is unfortunately the current industry standard and will be seen examining CDs, wavs or mp3s.

Yes, that's whay I was saying. The mastering is killing the music far more than mp3. I was just demonstrating that the wav is still shit and audibly so, even to me with my shitty ears that can't tell the difference between a wav and the same wav converted to 320k mp3.

Now I get your apple/orange thing, sorry misunderstood before.

With the knowlege that current mastering standards damage the soundscape and that digital compression squashes the dynamic range, I was comparing how the results of said practices sound on my various good and bad sound systems.

So, I guess, we weren't exactly talking about the same thing, hence, the crossed wires.

Which leaves me in the position of standing by everything I've said AND agreeing with what you are saying... Cool?

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

rdhull said:

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

I got your back. Bring on the remasters!

rdhull said:

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

I like the new band. I like the new songs, particularly Breakfast Can Wait. I want to see how long he stays interested and where he takes it. The last 35 years ain't goin' anywhere.

Downloaded Breakfast Can Wait and sounds like its distorting to me..... pain in the butt!!!!!

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

If Prince remastered his entire catalogue, would you really buy it? Wouldn't that just be like buying everything twice?

I might buy "Sign O' the Times" remastered, though. It was recorded way too low.

RodeoSchro said:

rdhull said:

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

I think everybody has your back on it, but most everybody knows Prince and Warners have no interest in it at this point. The Madonna and Michael Jackson remasters sit around in bargain bins for 4.99 to 6.99. The U2 remasters are mostly around 9.99 and the same 10 copies of War that were there 3 years ago are still sitting at a local Best Buy. All the Van Halen remasters are 4.99, and they didn't even bother remastering the releases after 1984. The only remasters business that even makes partial sense is the Box Set thing. Again, Prince has no interest in this, so it just isn't likely to happen.

By the way, SOTT was not "recorded too low" Warners botched the cd mastering process. It sounds fine on vinyl. Same thing with the Black Album. All the cds from For You to Parade sound better than those two hack jobs. Try putting anything from Crystal Ball on a cdr with tracks from BA or SOTT, the difference is amazing. I have made my own copies with louder mixes, and they sound a little better, but those are the two Prince albums in most need of better mastering to cd.

stillwaiting said:

rdhull said:

All this sound tech talk and nobody had/has my back about remasters.

I think everybody has your back on it, but most everybody knows Prince and Warners have no interest in it at this point. The Madonna and Michael Jackson remasters sit around in bargain bins for 4.99 to 6.99. The U2 remasters are mostly around 9.99 and the same 10 copies of War that were there 3 years ago are still sitting at a local Best Buy. All the Van Halen remasters are 4.99, and they didn't even bother remastering the releases after 1984. The only remasters business that even makes partial sense is the Box Set thing. Again, Prince has no interest in this, so it just isn't likely to happen.

By the way, SOTT was not "recorded too low" Warners botched the cd mastering process. It sounds fine on vinyl. Same thing with the Black Album. All the cds from For You to Parade sound better than those two hack jobs. Try putting anything from Crystal Ball on a cdr with tracks from BA or SOTT, the difference is amazing. I have made my own copies with louder mixes, and they sound a little better, but those are the two Prince albums in most need of better mastering to cd.

Absolutely correct. All of Prince's vinyl albums sound magnificent. Instead of waiting to pay for decent digital "remasters", why not just get a turntable and play the vinyl?

Then, one could make their own digital transfers from the vinyl.

I still have every album and 12" I collected since I was a kid... scraping what little money I earned to go to the record store, then nervously figuring out what I could afford.

.

[Edited 2/6/13 12:13pm]

Giovanni777 said:

stillwaiting said:

I think everybody has your back on it, but most everybody knows Prince and Warners have no interest in it at this point. The Madonna and Michael Jackson remasters sit around in bargain bins for 4.99 to 6.99. The U2 remasters are mostly around 9.99 and the same 10 copies of War that were there 3 years ago are still sitting at a local Best Buy. All the Van Halen remasters are 4.99, and they didn't even bother remastering the releases after 1984. The only remasters business that even makes partial sense is the Box Set thing. Again, Prince has no interest in this, so it just isn't likely to happen.

By the way, SOTT was not "recorded too low" Warners botched the cd mastering process. It sounds fine on vinyl. Same thing with the Black Album. All the cds from For You to Parade sound better than those two hack jobs. Try putting anything from Crystal Ball on a cdr with tracks from BA or SOTT, the difference is amazing. I have made my own copies with louder mixes, and they sound a little better, but those are the two Prince albums in most need of better mastering to cd.

Absolutely correct. All of Prince's vinyl albums sound magnificent. Instead of waiting to pay for decent digital "remasters", why not just get a turntable and play the vinyl?

Then, one could make their own digital transfers from the vinyl.

I still have every album and 12" I collected since I was a kid... scraping what little money I earned to go to the record store, then nervously figuring out what I could afford.

.

[Edited 2/6/13 12:13pm]

Same here, and I'm still buying records today. They sound better to me and always have.