Ok.. lets as concerned music lovers discuss (in a constructive manner) the following...

1. NPGMC is currently under investigation for 2 degrees of Mail Fraud
2. NPGMC's legal team is contacting those who the BBB forced them to respond to. BBB did a great job!
3. NPGMC was removing words relating to misleading advertising prior to shutting the website down completely.
4. NPGMC didn't deliver on the much hoped for downloads.
5. Prince reportedly isn't saying anything about the club right now.
6. Minneapolis Star Tribune ran a recent article due to the flood of emails it is getting.
7. NPGMC chose to wait and stall until the last weeks of the membership to ship orders.
8. NPGMC is not shipping new music, has sent only 2 albums (both with songs we already had)
9. When you repeatedly email them saying that you want to join, ask them what you get for $100, NPGMC doesn't answer.
10. The Website is STILL DOWN.. as many customers are wondering where the orders are.
11. The so called PR company that NPG Records quoted on the recently shut down website is FAKE with no external communications.
12. The ORG has been flooded with complaints about NPGMC mainly because they haven't properly dealt with a variety of problems with so much as respectable clarification of what exactly the $100 was for.
13. The NPG Legal team screwed up big time making statements which ran CONTRARY TO WHAT WAS ON THE TOUR BOOK AND WEBSITE
14 The tour books have been pulled. The website is shut down. (choosing now to upgrade it)

((I don't even want to get into what the not-so-exclusive Live set is selling for right now ...))

only 1 subject 2 discuss really...y would a Prince fan be so determined 2 undermine and critize Prince and the npgmc at every given opportunity? Savannah u r more than just a puzzle u r a maze of sheer unbelievable neagativity! ...join the club yall...it aint over!!!

Savannah said:

childofthedawn said:

Perhaps you don't have a clue here? First of all, if you're going to type like a "fam," you missed several words in your post. I have taken the liberty of fully fashioning your comments in Princebonics:

only 1 subject 2 discuss really...y would a Prince fan b so determined 2 undermyne and critize Prince and the npgmc @ every given oppor2nity? Savannah u r more than just a puzzle u r a maze of sheer unbelievabull neagativity! ...join the club yall...it aint over!!!

People want what they were promised. Some don't especially appreciate paying for product they didn't want. Some don't accept idiotic solutions like "don't join next year" when that's already a foregone conclusion.

We didn't want the club to fail any more than we wanted to throw away $100. There are problems that need to be addressed aggressively, if we want solutions.

I was betting 1-2 odds that childofthedunce would be the first clueless clod to pounce on the thread without addressing any of the 14 points like the cowardly complainer that he is.

So i'll take another bet. Like a seed planted.. it will take a few days for the thinkers to come up with some ideas. Meanwhile i'll save your verbal thrashing for a less important thread.

Mediadarling said "People want what they were promised. Some don't especially appreciate paying for product they didn't want. We didn't want the club to fail any more than we wanted to throw away $100. There are problems that need to be addressed aggressively, if we want solutions."

I don't like what happened either my friend, but my first question is.. Is Prince and his staff aware that this mess was the product of some bad planning that needs to be improved upon or are they going to start pointing the finger at one another. Is this really where they wanted to be in December?

Savannah said:

OK Savannah - you want to discuss these constructively. I have read through each in turn but this just seems to be a summary of what has already been debated here already, and until such time as there is more information, I'm not sure how the debate can be advanced much further?

1. NPGMC is currently under investigation for 2 degrees of Mail Fraud

Can you provide details regarding the alleged mail fraud over and above what has already been presented on this site?

2. NPGMC's legal team is contacting those who the BBB forced them to respond to. BBB did a great job!

If you think they did a great job, then ... great. It's not much of a subject to discuss though.

3. NPGMC was removing words relating to misleading advertising prior to shutting the website down completely.

Can you provide some detail? Have you got wording from different screenshots so we can discuss the change in wording. The detail previously provided about changes to the website regarding the period covered by NPGMC 2002 has already been well-documented, so is there anything new, or more detail you can offer for the debate?

4. NPGMC didn't deliver on the much hoped for downloads.

There were two downloads, one of which was previously available to Members from the first year subscription. I'm sure people had hoped for and expected more, but what is there to discuss?

5. Prince reportedly isn't saying anything about the club right now.

Not much to discuss there then

6. Minneapolis Star Tribune ran a recent article due to the flood of emails it is getting.

I think that's been reported here before with people given the opportunity to discuss.

7. NPGMC chose to wait and stall until the last weeks of the membership to ship orders.

The fact that the shipment only delivered (to most members - it looks like some are still waiting) late in the membership period is not an issue in itself, as I understand it. The issue is whether this has violated the definition of 'exclusivity', because the music is available in retail stores.

8. NPGMC is not shipping new music, has sent only 2 albums (both with songs we already had)

As I recall, both ONA and ONA - Live! contained new music. It contained a lot of songs which people will undoubtedly have heard before, but it also contained new music.

9. When you repeatedly email them saying that you want to join, ask them what you get for $100, NPGMC doesn't answer.

That is your experience (and others). Before I joined, I emailed them to ask for clarification and received a response straight away. Some have reported here that they had prompt answers to their enquiries and were satisfied with the service during the year. Others have reported that they had expectations that were not fulfilled, and did not receive replies. I guess, if people were dissatisfied enough, they would have followed the suggestion made to contact the BBB.

10. The Website is STILL DOWN.. as many customers are wondering where the orders are.

The website doesn't actually tell you where your order is. It simply tells you whether it is 'In Progress' in which case it may or may not have been dispatched and may or may not have arrived Or it says 'Shipped' which should mean it has arrived. Some people have made contact with the shipping company and received helpful answers and some haven't from what I can read.

However, you seem to be alleging that the website is purposefully closed BECAUSE many customers are wondering where their orders are. If this is what you are suggesting, do you have any information to back this suggestion up? Or is it just an assumption on your part?

11. The so called PR company that NPG Records quoted on the recently shut down website is FAKE with no external communications.

Can you provide some details to substantiate this allegation? Of whom, exactly, are you referring?

12. The ORG has been flooded with complaints about NPGMC mainly because they haven't properly dealt with a variety of problems with so much as respectable clarification of what exactly the $100 was for.

I'm not sure you are expecting us to discuss this as a topic in itself. We have debated what the $100 represents, what people expected it to represent, and the responses provided by NPGMC copiously.

13. The NPG Legal team screwed up big time making statements which ran CONTRARY TO WHAT WAS ON THE TOUR BOOK AND WEBSITE

I think this was debated when the legal letter was printed here. Has there been some further exchange of legal correspondence which can add to this previous debate?

14 The tour books have been pulled. The website is shut down. (choosing now to upgrade it)

The tour books have been pulled? If the website is closed, you can't order them. If the ONA tour is over, you can't buy the book at a concert. But so what?

The basis of complaint against the NPGMC does not rest on the tour book still being available (unless you ordered one and it hasn't arrived). It rests partly on the basis that a complainant relied in part on what was in a tour book they either read or purchased, and they are seeking to suggest that the information in the tour book formed part of a contract with NPGMC which has not been fulfilled.


As far as I can tell, most of the subjects you have raised have been well debated here already. But if you have any more information, then that might be helpful.

My assumption is that the vast majority of people who visit this site are aware of all the details of this matter because they have, as you point out, been aired frequently here. I guess some are perhaps waiting to decide whether to make a complaint, but the majority of people who have not yet done so have made a decision not to register a complaint, for whatever reason.

(Incidentally, I presume that any complaint you have against the club does not yet form an active legal case you have brought against the club?)

Reading your reply to one contributor here, I see that you are also raising the question as to whether the NPGMC expected to be in this position by December. My assumption is that they did not, and I think everyone hoped and expected it to run smoothly with a satisfied customer base who would renew their membership.

I think most people have already drawn the conclusion that there appears to have been miscommunication between Club and Members. For some people, this has no consequence whatsoever, whilst others feel they have suffered as a result. Those that wish to have registered complaints. Everyone hopes that if NPGMC runs for 2004, then whatever lessons can be learned, are learned. But for some people it will mean they will not renew their membership. Until we learn anymore about the future of the club, I can't see there is a considerable amount to debate.

oh please not again. why do people start jumping on the wrong and negative conclusions.
we don't know why or what the reason is 4 the npgmc is down.
they had a lot off problems this year.
maybe people like u don't realise that the npgmc is a small bissniss and not a big industrie.
and will u please stop whining about what whe didn't get.
and enjoy what we did get.
prince changed his plan (what else is new).
is this the end off the world .
is this a waist off your money ? no the ona live box is great .and its gonna sell big time!!!
we didn't get exlusive music so what .
whe did get a exlusive soundcheck .
we did see the best concert ever.
we did get a piano c.d yes with some songs off last year.
did u never by a c.d off prince with the same music on before.
did u 4get that prince was very busy touring all over the world(almost).
and is it not great 2 see that he's finaly getting his respect back and everybody' rediscovering the new prince again.
like he's a fresh artist.
and finaly.don't u get sick off your own negative whinning and complaining.and bitching about the same thing over and over again.
YOU START 2 SOUND LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER .
oh my god how much more can u complain about this.
if we didn't get anything then alright then .but we did get a pearl off a box .
stop it please .

langebleu said:

Well said, clear, concise, and direct. I'm interesting in seeing the proof too.

And here we go again...

For Prince and he is perfect

For Prince but want change

So many people will eat a lie to save face, other will vomit it on your floor.

I desired the club's succes (and YES I bitched with the best of 'em). I enjoyed some of the music. I don't like being played a patsy nor being treated as a minority. I don't go to BK and pay 3 bucks for a Whopper to only receive bread. If the menu states you'll get a hamburger patty, lettuce, tomatoe, pickle, onions, and mayo. That's what I expect to receive. You don't advertise a product consisting of one issues but delivering on another. I don't care how you rationalize, it is FALSE advertising.

hilton02895 said:

Bottom line, eye like ure posts:)

hilton02895 said:

Perhaps next time you invest your ducats into a fan club, you'll read the fine print and disclaimer. If you go to BK and order a Whopper, make sure you don't order from the Vegitarian menu . . .

childofthedawn said:

It's difficult to join the club when the web site has been taken down. I thought access to the website was part of the membership I paid for. It is over, I'm afraid.

Al

Savannah, can it be that you made it for you the task of life to broken-talk NPGMC?

Your TOPICS does not want I no more to see, because everywhere you spread negative tendency and bad mood. I am and remain a Prince Fam, since its music fascinates me and really responds. And I cannot this feeling be made broken by you!!!

Love, Peace & b wild

Athuruga

Savannah said:

langebleu said:

You made some great commentary (bravo) and some good points. I'll comment on 1-14 a bit later.. you really hit a few nails on the head First lets start right off by assuring y'all that while there are a dozen so people that (outside the org) i'm trying to help, I do not advocate for a class action lawsuit over music. The ones who are bitter and don't want to listen to me can continue working with the lawyers that they are consulting with. Prince's latest "move" was that he took down the website in his own defense. Strange but true.

Having said that and with this song in mind, is Prince going to face the music of these 14 concerns or hide from them? To quote his own words the ones who love me without condition this is my wealth and with these words i will win No Prince is not going to win. For people saying that this is a $100 rip-off, they still want the music, they just don't respect the way he distributes it as it can be debated "without condition" And as he continues to say "all negativity bow" his numbers shrink and shrink.

Look and I know for some, this is a good thing. But to them I say "lighten up" and raise your voices to help your brothers and sisters in the Prince community, not by silly notions of destruction but by a "new position" of change.

And to answer the best question you brought up. Yes these subjects have been discussed to death.. but as Prince says himself.. We're (the org) are asking the wrong questions. I think everybody in the Prince online community (current and past members and potential members) need to focus on these 14 points, not just you and I, and then we need to constructively debate what needs to change.

But unfortunately there is this "great divide" and not much middle ground. So to the "sheep" as they are being called, I say here are 14 issues on a silver platter for you.. discuss them in classic org style with a sense of humor or you can attempt to attack me and others who comment on them. They are not soley "my issues" they are the clubs issues. To anyone who loves the music.

What needs to change? I don't know exactly.. petitions didn't seem to work. I was hoping that others more into the club would know about this. Some better communication maybe, less carrot and stick lure on the website, less sarcasm and a return of what worked in year 1.

Finally, is this where NPGMC wanted to be in December? Well, if he wanted to take a year off and not have a year 3, this was a sure way to dig a hole and bury it. And thats sad. They behaved the way they did all year long, re-open the website and face the music, the compliments and complaints. The coffee with the cream.

* on that note

if
he's
delaying
the
release
of
2003

I
bet
the
man
returning
from
a
long
tour
is
hiring
some
new
club
management

CLEAN
HOUSE!