Heya,

As most of you must be aware the club has failed to deliver on what was promised -even those who got the soundcheck experience on the tour should demand what was advertised and not what they are getting no matter how loyally blind a fan they are. We were promised exclusive material like people got in the first year of the club and no amount of 'don't you want prince to get noticed?' is going to change that. [For the record Prince is dead as a mainstream artist] So in light of this I would like to start a boycott movement.

The suggested strategy is as follows:

1. Agree on a statement of complaint and post it on prince.org.

2. Encourage people to email it to the NPGMC.

3. Refer the NPGMC to the Better Business Bureau for fraudulent advertising practices and alert NPGMC to this fact.

4. Refuse to join next year and make the club aware that we are likely to still get the material they will be offering at our local retail store.

And before the flamers get warmed up please note: I don't feel cheated out of $100. I couldn't care less about that. It is a matter of principle, common decency and honesty. It is about letting the star know that their fans have self respect and expect the artist they respect to respect them in kind.

Cheers,


Buttox

boycot the whiners next year!

Good don't join next year.

More room for me at the JW bible study camp!

Concerts, soundchecks, and the Celebration...

I'll be joining NPGMC for year 3.

I've enjoyed my experience!

I might get my CD's quicker if you don't join. I'd also get closer to the front at gigs.

$100 for 4 Albums and all the concert perks is a pretty good deal to me. We are talking £65. The box-set is over £50 at Retail price here in the UK. So I've effectively paid just £15 more for the 'ONA' piano CD and the membership entitlements.

Plus the Soundchecks, priority seating and the free Aftershow (at the Marquee, London) were priceless for me.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 30 8:12:09 PST 2002 by Mr7]

Mr7 said:

Hear hear! Couldn't have said it better myself. Looks like your on your own Buttox!

It's funny how fanatics take reasonable criticism of their idol personally.




Here's the word 'exclusive' by the way from
'About the Club':

By joining the NPG Music Club, U will b given access 2 an xclusive array of xperiences from PRINCE & The New Power Generation, including new unreleased Prince CDs, live events, special merchandise items, concert deals, and much more.

boycott all the complainers and whiners .
because they start 2 get on my nerves.

Buttox said:

xclusive CD... ONA

xclusive merchandise... members retail section (eg Cloud Guitar)

xclusive live events... Soundcheck & Free aftershow sccess

xclusive concert deals... members buy tics 2 days b4 non members



U have CONtradicted yourself when U say that the NPGMC has failed 2 deliver on what they promised. They promised 4 CDs and we got 4. They promised the xclusive stuff that I have highlighted above and we got it. By Ur own statement "the club has failed to deliver on what was " U surely have 2 retract what U said and boycott your boycott?? Logic dictates this!

Hmmm, I don't think ONA can be classed as exclusive, now. It's being given away with ONA Live with the message e-mailed to members to Let a friend play it. Thereby completely taking away it's exclusivity and allowing it's distribution beyond club members.
I believe that it's pointless encouraging a boycott, as the only people who will join that boycott are the people who are already annoyed with the whole thing anyway. You'll have great difficulty persuading others.
Personally, on the CD front, I think that although they've lived up to their promise, they've not lived up to the expectation.
Incidentally, if the retail price of ONA live is around $60, and it's the retailers that get a huge cut of that price, why are members supposed to be satisfied with receiving the same package for the same price (it is actually costing us more, if you count ONA as costing $25).

There'd better be another CD arriving before Dec 31st.

Awaiting having my post pulled apart...

Boycott boycotters!!!

whoa someone's got their underwear stuck right up where it shouldn't be, mr. buttox!

lighten up ok? i've done my share of complaining about the NPGMC in here but imo they came through for us. not only that, but they actually came through ON TIME~! they did a good job. ok they did a not so good job af telling us about the discs but i have to say i really like the box set.

i don't actually care much about whether the discs are xclusive or not. in the day and age of bootlegging that point becomes moot.

imo the booklet is nifty and i like getting another copy of ONA with the other 3 CDs. so, not only did NPGMC give us our four discs they gave us an xtra one for a friend, leaving the distribution up to us. 5 CDs.

no BoyCotts ova here!

Buttox said:

Speak for yourself. I'm not necessarily "satisfied" with the way the club was run this year, I am satisfied with the front row seats, the free access to the afterparty (which he played and usually runs $50-$75), not to mention the experience of the soundcheck, I am satisfied with the treatment we received at the concerts. As far as the cds, I am not satisfied with the way that no one knew what we were getting and the fact that it took sooo long to get your music. I believe that we could have been tided over with an mp3 or two every month. Maybe even a video download.

I will be rejoining again and 4 eternity. I love Prince and his music and will join, no matter how much I get screwed. I join because I like Prince, not because I am expecting Prince to release everything he records to us.

JimmyNothing said:

xclusive CD... ONA
Umm, not really. As half the tracks on this CD were given to members last year.

xclusive merchandise... members retail section (eg Cloud Guitar)
Umm, not really. The cloud guitar, & many other items were available for sale at many shows.

xclusive live events... Soundcheck & Free aftershow sccess
Umm, not really. At many of the shows, non-members were able to get into both the soundchecks and aftershows free of charge.

xclusive concert deals... members buy tics 2 days b4 non members
For the same price as non-members would be able to get them for two days later, and were limited to ONLY two tickets. There really isn't that much difference between a second row seat for a member and a fourth row seat for a non member.

U have CONtradicted yourself when U say that the NPGMC has failed 2 deliver on what they promised. They promised 4 CDs and we got 4. They promised the xclusive stuff that I have highlighted above and we got it. By Ur own statement "the club has failed to deliver on what was " U surely have 2 retract what U said and boycott your boycott?? Logic dictates this!
[/quote]

I am afraid you have contradicted yourself by trying to sound intelligent and well-thought-out when that is clearly not the case. We were promised four SPECIFIC CDs, only one of which, was delivered. None of what you highlighted above was exclusive (that word begins with an "e," thank you) or was of much benefit to members.

You do not deal in logic. You deal in rationalization & dismissal of false advertising and wrongdoings by the NPGMC as the mercurial nature of a pop star. That is crap. Not logic.

Mediadarling
Ok - my turn. I have had ENOUGH of people moaning about NPGMC. The above you claim never happened where I am! Ok some of the tracks were given as free downloads earlier in the year. However they went from free downloads to free CD's - so there is bound to be an overlap.I am glad to have those songs on an official CD.

Secondly what are you talking about when you say "At many of the shows, non-members were able to get into both the soundchecks and aftershows free of charge" - HOW AND WHERE!! The concerts I went to there was NO WAY you were going anywhere without a NPGMC laminate or wristband!

Thirdly you say "For the same price as non-members would be able to get them for two days later, and were limited to ONLY two tickets. There really isn't that much difference between a second row seat for a member and a fourth row seat for a non member" How can a non member be in the third row when all first 15 rows are booked out for NPGMC members?! Also, there has to be a limit or else can you imagine how no - one would be able to get a ticket and some arsehole would buy 100 tix and sell them at stupid prices, which is exactly what used to happen with touts and is what Prince is trying to avoid! 2 member limit is good.

Where were we promised FOUR SPECIFIC CD's?! Yeah, we were promised 4 albums - which we have. Yes, there were ad's for four albums in the tour book which I agree, was a nasty thing to do. But we all know what Prince is like. If we're not careful he will run miles away as he did with WB! As for the cloud gutair being on sale at concerts - I don't give a monkey! I'm not going to buy it! Also it was a chance for us to buy gear without having to pay $25 shipping charge!

I know many people are going to read this and say 'oh here's another fanatic who can't see no wrong' - well you're wrong. I can clearly see why people are upset and some have a good reason. $100 is a lot of cash and if you feel hard done by I am all for sticking up 4 u. I have read some genuine stories here on the org. BUT when people like mediadarling comeup with rubbish like the above as an excuse it makes my blood boil!
Ok - time to practise breathing techniques. . .

oh
here's
another
famatic
who
can't
see
no
wrong

mediadarling said: "I am afraid you have contradicted yourself by trying to sound intelligent and well-thought-out when that is clearly not the case. We were promised four SPECIFIC CDs, only one of which, was delivered."

EXACTLY!!! I truly don't understand how some of y'all can be SO stubbornly blind to the fact that we were PROMISED FOUR SPECIFIC CD's. When it turned out that only one of those cd's actually materialized, the club claimed they were "only ideas." OK, well then my payment for my membership was only an idea too, and I'd like it back!!

Oh, no, now I understand, thanks to Bambi319:

"Yes, there were ad's for four albums in the tour book which I agree, was a nasty thing to do. But we all know what Prince is like. If we're not careful he will run miles away as he did with WB!"

Um, okaaay..."We all know what Prince is like." Well how dare we criticize someone who by your own admission will seize any opportunity to "run miles away" with our money?? Man, we're lucky that he's sending us ANYthing. I mean, yeah he promised 4 cd's, but that can be explained away by simply clicking your heels three times and saying "We all know what Prince is like...We all know what Prince is like...We all know what Prince is like..."

oh, and xxaxx: I'm very glad that you received your ONA Live already. But please keep in mind that MANY of us never even received the e-mail stating that it was shipping, let alone the package itself...

Argh! I don't know man! I am stuck in the middle. On one hand I think NPGMC is doing us wrong and then on the other think no it's okay. . .I'm going MAYD!
I wish Prince wouldn't say you're going to get x,y,z with the club. That way people won't be dissapointed and just join on what people got on the past years..

Bambi319 said:

Look at this. This thread was opened with a statement which was trying to be written in a legal way. I guess Prince is kind of lucky. He doesnt have to worry about where his enemies are. He knows that some of them are right in his fanbase. With friends like that who needs enemies and all that.

End of the day I wouldnt be getting this service if I was a fan of any other artist. If people want to start sounding legal about it, then there isnt a leg to stand on. It is one thing people airing issues and complaints but when one tries to point out areas where something has failed in a way that if true would demand action in a court of law it is a different matter. I think you will find that no breach has been made. Asking other people to join in shows what kind of a person you are dealing with. I think it is really quite sad that as a whole Prince's fan network are a great community but that the sad fact of life is that nothing will ever be free of shit stirring and people who arent happy no matter what. Some prince fans really have an attitude of being special and if that comes from musical taste it is quite true but if it comes from thinking you deserve more then you have gotten then wake up. You probably think that if Prince saw you and you mentioned your name he should be like "Oh year, your member no. 578 I was in your area the other day and thought I would pop round but there was no one home" Get over it.

I guess you would be happy if a boycott took place, Prince decided that that would be the best time to retire and just make the music personal from then on in. Well maybe you're not into the music anymore and but can't admit it to yourself, thus taking your anger out in other areas but the rest of are quite happy thank you. Withdraw your subscription. No one is going to mind. It sounds to me your interest isnt getting your money's worth anyway but actually being noticed. Which goes back to what I said before. Prince dont know you and he certainly dont owe you.

I noticed before the word exclusive being questioned. Something which is exclusive is not required to remain exclusive in order for it to be exclusive. We are promised to be sent exclusive material. If the material was then released the day after we all received it, we would still be receiving exclusive material. When MTV are first to show a new video it will be airing on MTV exclusively. VH1 will still be showing it in time. All promises of exclusive material has so far been met as at the time of shipping it was exclusive. You think that fans who do not, for whatever reason, sign up to the NPGMusicClub dont deserve in time to have it made available to them. You want to walk around and say to other fans,
"Oh your not in the club, well you havnt heard this then. That will teach you"
I spoke to some people at the concert who werent members and a few people had given them the attidude that they were no more then just people who had turned up to the gig and that they didnt fall into the fan category. That is a load of bull and quite frankly I think the fact that someone isnt happy because at a later date music is being made available for non members has issues. You got the cd, you listened to it before non club members. Why would you even be bothered? As was pointed out, you would pay more if you were buying it from the shop. And whilst awaiting you sendings you're probably sitting on some fileshare program downloading tracks which arent even meant to be going about.

It all boils down to this. You have an issue with the club? You're really not happy? Dont resubscribe. Simple. Instead you want blood. You want to pick the paper up and read an article how Prince is ripping off his fans. Because thats what would happen if enough people had as a little sense. Going back to what I said about enemies in your own house. I think it is really sad that if ever an article were to show up it would be fuelled by some of the fan base.

JimmyNothing said:

CDs is plural, and you only listed one CD!

"Wouldn't be getting this service if I was a fan of another artist?"

My gosh, do you visit any sites other than NPGMC & prince.org?

There are many music clubs, nearly all of which are better than Prince's. Even one-off online deals are proving better than his.

Yes I do visit other websites. There is only a problem with NPGMC if you include the false allegation of false advertising that have been made. I dont see what is so hard when doing the maths. Lets say that only 70% of the people who join the club would buy the material if the club didnt exist. Which is obviously a low percantage. Most of us would buy. More money would be made if the club didnt exist. I can really see Prince sitting there rubbing his hands together thinking, "hehe yeah conning the shit out of my fans" I know that is not what all the complaints are stating and some people are just questioning effiency but this thread is talking of devious actions.

I know the media world inside and out and I know that most artists really dont care about fan well being. I have also seen first hand Prince take care of things that most artists would concider well below them. Even that had people complaining. It makes me laugh. There were some people at the concert, again lobbying, trying to pull in "boycotters" and when Prince shouts out "Are you with me?" They're all like "Hell yeah" If someone has a personal grievance then I dont see why on earth they have to make more then just that. I guess they are thinking the more who follow me, the more chance I get of... what it is exactly buttox wants, for real, I dont know, is it a refund. Is it a personal meeting with Prince once a year. At the end of the day the majority state that they are happy with the service they are receiving, not just happy, chuffed with it.

One cannot question what prince does for his fans. There is more music that has both been released and could be released to last us a few lifetimes and then some. Jackson fans, what do that get. An album every 5 years. I do find it ammusing that you cant get away from people slagging of prince and his doings even on a fan website.
[This message was edited Sun Dec 1 12:38:39 PST 2002 by DolphinFriendlyStarfish]

And when the club closes down because they decide it just isnt worth the negativity I bet whilst all us who actually appreciate it are missing it the complainers will be complaining that it closed. Some people are born to complain and wont be happy doing anything other then.

I guess Jimmy left off the list the tour box but being as the amount of cd's being sent out isnt in question.. or is? He has a very valid point.

I know that one of the reasons I liked Prince and I know this goes for many others too was the fact that he did and his best to do his thing and wouldnt be told what to do. That was the whole point wasnt it. Now you got this small group of people telling him how to run his club. Funny.
[This message was edited Sun Dec 1 13:01:45 PST 2002 by DolphinFriendlyStarfish]

thank u dolphin for a graet commentary, maybe ull make some of these whiny gimboids think a little but i fuckin doubt it, still its nice to see some sanity on the prg for a change.
.

Dolphinfriendlystarfish -
[This message was edited Sun Dec 1 13:39:10 PST 2002 by Bambi319]

mediadarling said:
You make it so simple. "Bound to be an overlap?" Doesn't Prince have over 1,000 unreleased songs in his vault? And yet, he couldn't find fewer than 15 that weren't the same? And there was nothing FREE about them. Club members paid to download them last year. Club members this year paid and got them on CD. Ridiculous.
Maybe he doesn't want to release them? Most members I know are a little annoyed at this (like me) but are happy to have them in an offcial cd.


To answer that, you can either go back & read the numerous concert reviews posted here that mention that, or open your eyes at the show you went to. It was a constant complaint cited by members who feel they had gotten the shaft. - NPGMC is not directly responsible for that. The venues wanted their own security etc. . .


Question, Einstein: when you went to your show, did you see the rows of NPGMC members and then several empty rows and then non members? No, I don't think so. Not every venue Prince played in on the ONA tour saw 15 club members attend, let alone 15 rows worth. Use your noodle. A venue with only 2 rows worth of club members isn't going to have 13 empty rows behind them. Sweet lord!

Gosh, who's a nasty girl! No need for the personal comments ok? Again, I assume you mean people who pushed in etc. See above.

Why two? Why not 4? Would that have been such a stretch? And people could have actually sat with their friends who weren't wasting money on this club. And that is if you could even get tickets through their crummy online vendor interface.

Some NPGMC members were unable to purchase tickets through the club due it being sold out. Can you imagine if they members puchase 4 tix still within the 15 rows? Why do you need to sit with 3 of your friends! One guest is cool and other friends can buy through normal ticket sales if they're not members.

"We all know what Prince is like?" So that gives him the right to do false advertising? I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between a casual mention of an album like Roadhouse Garden in an interview that never sees the light of day and four specific titles used to entice members into joining a club where they are paying for advertised product. And the comment about the merchandise, all of my comments here, in fact, were in response to Jimmy Nothing's points. If you're going to claim exclusivity, stick to it. It's that simple. What do you mean "if we're not careful?" You mean it's in our best interest as fans to coddle & suck up to Prince & allow him to screw us over so we continue to get music from him? Actually, we could just realize that's how he makes his living and not deal with him until he gets his house in order.

No my points are voiced in Dolphinfriendlystarfish comments. He/She understood where I was coming from. Why are you trying to push artistic freedom into a corner!



Rubbish? I don't think so, as I've once again clearly illustrated. You're trying, like so many of your kind, to sweep simple facts under the rug in order to protect Prince's reputation, or at least avoid the way you perceive him from being tarnished. Yet, like she said, "here's another fanatic"...
[/quote][/quote]

I'm not sweeping anything under the rug. As stated earlier I understand some peoples points where they have been done wrong by the club. However imo I just don't think your points that valid. . apart from MAYBE the 4 CD thing which can be read in a number of ways.

Peace.

DolphinFriendlyStarfish said:

Well, I don't find it "ammusing." What I do find amusing, however, is the way you and your ilk constantly try to rationalize all that Prince has done wrong with the fact that we're getting music from him. Well, hello! He's a musician! What do you expect? There are far better ways he could have gone about it. And so what if this is a fan site? There are, if you hadn't noticed, varying degrees of fandom.

It sounds like the whiners value their money more than anything else. So why would you brats agree to such a wishy-washy contract as the one offered in 2002 NPGMC? Don't give us the excuse that we were promised 4 specific CD's. Nowhere in the contract did it say that. The tour program was not an official promise, and I suspect you joined the club before you even had the program.

Next year please don't join. Consider the contract very carefully if you are truly a Prince fam and want to join. And if there isn't a contract, just a form that asks for your credit card number, then consider extra-carefully. Chalk 2002 up as experience, kick yourself in the buttox, and carry on with your lives.