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To the dissatisfied lotusflow3r subscribers... ... two ideas:
1) The thread about exclusive content in the first week never materializing might be grounds to file complaints with the better business bureau. 2) Contact the reporter who did the story in advance of the site's rollout, the article featured implications of what might be possible with the site. Send him links to the discussion forum. Reporters are constantly looking for follow-up stories. I don't think you all are going to see consistent value for your dollars without involving external folks: namely, the BBB and the media. I'm sorry it hasn't been the experience you all hoped it would be. I had my reservations beforehand, but I hoped Prince would dispel them with better service this time. | |
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absolutely nothing was advertised in exchange for your money apart from access to the site
an interview with a reporter isn't advertising, even if it was recorded and broadcast | |
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unique said: absolutely nothing was advertised in exchange for your money apart from access to the site
an interview with a reporter isn't advertising, even if it was recorded and broadcast Indeed, you're right. A key reason my money bought the album from Target. But, if you look throughout this forum, you see a lot of folks who say they feel duped by Prince. And, while an interview isn't advertising, it is publicity and information given to the public about the nature of the site, what sorts of features to expect. I'm just telling dissatisfied customers what small recourse they might have.  | |
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http://www.la.bbb.org/BusinessFind.aspx
Neither the LA nor the National BBB database has business filings for: Lotusflow3r Lotusflower Lotus Flower Prince Prince Rogers Nelson Prince Nelson Not sure what this new venture might be listed under. Just found the old "F" rated NPG/1-800-New Funk database. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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Squirrelgrease also had the great idea of filing consumer complaints with California's attorney general: http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general.php | |
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It's a little early for official complaints surely? I imagine any complaint would be brushed off at the moment, due to there being 11 months of a one year subscription still remaining. I'm not saying there won't be cause for complaint 1 year from now, there might well be, just that complaining now is more than a tad premature.
Would you subscribe to a monthly magazine, then contact the better business bureau when you only had 1 issue after a month had passed? RIP  | |
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squirrelgrease said: http://www.la.bbb.org/BusinessFind.aspx
Neither the LA nor the National BBB database has business filings for: Lotusflow3r Lotusflower Lotus Flower Prince Prince Rogers Nelson Prince Nelson Not sure what this new venture might be listed under. Just found the old "F" rated NPG/1-800-New Funk database. That's very interesting but the exact name of whatever entity used that accepted those $77.00 payments should and damn well better appear on the credit card statements of those that joined. I'm not going to join just to find out but I'm just saying. I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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TheEnglishGent said: It's a little early for official complaints surely? I imagine any complaint would be brushed off at the moment, due to there being 11 months of a one year subscription still remaining. I'm not saying there won't be cause for complaint 1 year from now, there might well be, just that complaining now is more than a tad premature.
Would you subscribe to a monthly magazine, then contact the better business bureau when you only had 1 issue after a month had passed? Ha! Hardly a safe comparison. Magazines come with terms of subscription, so prospective subscribers know what they're getting, what to expect, before they pay. I suppose it would depend on the publisher, though, right? If I'm dealing with Time or Essence magazines, which have track records of consistency, I'm a lot more relaxed. If I'm dealing with LeRoy's Guide to Thimble Collecting and LeRoy´s got a spotty record in everything from publishing to roofing to part-time caddying, I might be a bit more cautious. | |
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. [Edited 5/2/09 16:23pm] | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: squirrelgrease said: http://www.la.bbb.org/BusinessFind.aspx
Neither the LA nor the National BBB database has business filings for: Lotusflow3r Lotusflower Lotus Flower Prince Prince Rogers Nelson Prince Nelson Not sure what this new venture might be listed under. Just found the old "F" rated NPG/1-800-New Funk database. That's very interesting but the exact name of whatever entity used that accepted those $77.00 payments should and damn well better appear on the credit card statements of those that joined. I'm not going to join just to find out but I'm just saying. The exact name of the entity that accepted my €58.73 ($77) on my credit card statement is LOTUSFLOW3R. Lemmy, Bowie, Prince, Leonard. RIP. |
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C'mon, Prince. If it's getting to the point where people are filing complaints against you with the government, then it's time to deliver.
The last thing you need is media attention about this. | |
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oh lord not the BBB again.... this happened during npg days with the ONA cds if I can recall.
eventually the product was delivered  |
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ThreadBare said: TheEnglishGent said: It's a little early for official complaints surely? I imagine any complaint would be brushed off at the moment, due to there being 11 months of a one year subscription still remaining. I'm not saying there won't be cause for complaint 1 year from now, there might well be, just that complaining now is more than a tad premature.
Would you subscribe to a monthly magazine, then contact the better business bureau when you only had 1 issue after a month had passed? Ha! Hardly a safe comparison. Magazines come with terms of subscription, so prospective subscribers know what they're getting, what to expect, before they pay. I suppose it would depend on the publisher, though, right? If I'm dealing with Time or Essence magazines, which have track records of consistency, I'm a lot more relaxed. If I'm dealing with LeRoy's Guide to Thimble Collecting and LeRoy´s got a spotty record in everything from publishing to roofing to part-time caddying, I might be a bit more cautious. Yeah, but if Time or Essence don't come out on a consistant basis, I could understand the bellyaching. But if you're dealing with LeRoy and he fucks up yet again, why would that surprise you? More specifically, why would you blindly subject yourself to the possibility of that happening? • Did you first think Prince was gay? •
Wendy: He’s a girl, for sure, but he’s not gay. He looked at me like a gay woman would look at another woman. Lisa: Totally. He’s like a fancy lesbian. | |
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ThreadBare said: TheEnglishGent said: It's a little early for official complaints surely? I imagine any complaint would be brushed off at the moment, due to there being 11 months of a one year subscription still remaining. I'm not saying there won't be cause for complaint 1 year from now, there might well be, just that complaining now is more than a tad premature.
Would you subscribe to a monthly magazine, then contact the better business bureau when you only had 1 issue after a month had passed? Ha! Hardly a safe comparison. Magazines come with terms of subscription, so prospective subscribers know what they're getting, what to expect, before they pay. I suppose it would depend on the publisher, though, right? If I'm dealing with Time or Essence magazines, which have track records of consistency, I'm a lot more relaxed. If I'm dealing with LeRoy's Guide to Thimble Collecting and LeRoy´s got a spotty record in everything from publishing to roofing to part-time caddying, I might be a bit more cautious. RIP | |
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It is very simple:
You pay 77 bucks for three albums and some videos. This fee will perhaps help get you a great seat at a concert that will maybe take place in your vicinity(sp?). In the twelfth month, there will be a great download/event which will eventually curb your appitite for the next year... Prost! "Whatever skin we're in
we all need 2 b friends" |
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Rogue588 said: ThreadBare said: Ha! Hardly a safe comparison. Magazines come with terms of subscription, so prospective subscribers know what they're getting, what to expect, before they pay. I suppose it would depend on the publisher, though, right? If I'm dealing with Time or Essence magazines, which have track records of consistency, I'm a lot more relaxed. If I'm dealing with LeRoy's Guide to Thimble Collecting and LeRoy´s got a spotty record in everything from publishing to roofing to part-time caddying, I might be a bit more cautious. Yeah, but if Time or Essence don't come out on a consistant basis, I could understand the bellyaching. But if you're dealing with LeRoy and he fucks up yet again, why would that surprise you? More specifically, why would you blindly subject yourself to the possibility of that happening? Believe me: I wouldn't and didn't. But a lot of our fellow Orgers have... | |
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TheEnglishGent said: ThreadBare said: Ha! Hardly a safe comparison. Magazines come with terms of subscription, so prospective subscribers know what they're getting, what to expect, before they pay. I suppose it would depend on the publisher, though, right? If I'm dealing with Time or Essence magazines, which have track records of consistency, I'm a lot more relaxed. If I'm dealing with LeRoy's Guide to Thimble Collecting and LeRoy´s got a spotty record in everything from publishing to roofing to part-time caddying, I might be a bit more cautious. Maybe the complaining fans would disagree. A lot of folks posting on this forum say they've been duped, to put it mildly. | |
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ThreadBare said: TheEnglishGent said: The point is, we're only a month into something for which we've paid for a year. It's way too early for serious complaints.
Maybe the complaining fans would disagree. A lot of folks posting on this forum say they've been duped, to put it mildly. Complainers? Here? If anything, I see a lot more enablers than I do complainers (that's not to say that there aren't complainers here). Though, in this instance, I think TheEnglishGent has a point. Then again, you do too. • Did you first think Prince was gay? •
Wendy: He’s a girl, for sure, but he’s not gay. He looked at me like a gay woman would look at another woman. Lisa: Totally. He’s like a fancy lesbian. | |
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If he had advertised the new music as "my best stuff since Gold Experience" before opening the website - that would have been reason enough for me to pay my $77, watch a few unreleased live videos and wait for something else to happen.
So, I am satisfied. Do I want more? Sure We always do. It is Prince. Sit tight. Relax. Chill. Larry and Tina have just finished boxing up all the t-shirts in their basement. | |
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TERMS AND CONDITIONS
THIS IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU �CUSTOMER� AND LOTUSFLOW3R, LLC (� LOTUSFLOW3R�) STATING THE TERMS THAT GOVERN CUSTOMER USE OF Lotusflow3r MEMBERSHIPS AND PRODUCTS. THIS AGREEMENT, ALONG WITH ANY UPDATES, CONSTITUTES THE "AGREEMENT" BETWEEN YOU AND LOTUSFLOW3R. Including: 1 � Terms of Sale 2 � Terms of Service 3 � Rules of Use 1 - TERMS OF SALE 1.1 - SALES TO END USERS ONLY Lotusflow3r sells annual website memberships (�Memberships�) and products ("Products") to end-user customers only. 1.2 - REFUND POLICY All sales are final. 1.3 - PAYMENT METHODS Lotusflow3r accepts credit cards payment only (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover). Billing to your credit card occurs at the time of purchase or shortly thereafter. Your order will bill as a single transaction. 1.4 - LOTUSFLOW3ER.COM MEMBERSHIPS Lotusflow3r memberships are valid for one calendar year from date of purchase, and are non-refundable. Membership includes access to restricted areas of Lotusflow3r, access to pre-sale concert tickets, and the ability to download music and videos from Lotusflow3r. Membership does not include the download rights to certain �Premium� material, which is available to purchase on a per-item basis. Automatic renewal is available for Lotusflow3r memberships. If automatic renewal is selected at purchase your credit card will be billed on an annual basis, unless you cancel automatic renewal prior to the renewal date by emailing sales@Lotusflow3r. 1.5 - PRICING Lotusflow3r reserves the right to change prices for Membership and Products at any time, and does not provide price protection or refunds in the event of promotions or price decreases. 1.6 - CONTENT USAGE RULES Customer use of both Membership and Products from Lotusflow3r is dependent upon prior acceptance of the Terms of Service. 1.7 - OTHER TERMS AND CONDITIONS Lotusflow3r reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of sale at the Lotusflow3r website at any time. Sales of both Memberships and Products at Lotusflow3r are governed by California law. 2 - TERMS OF SERVICE . 2.1 � DEFINITIONS Lotusflow3r sells both annual website memberships (�Memberships�) and individual products ("Products") for personal, non-commercial use by customers (�Customers�). 2.2 � AGE REQUIREMENTS Lotusflow3r sells Memberships and Products to those aged 14 and over. Those aged under 14 and wishing to purchase either Memberships or Products must be signed up by a parent or legal guardian who is 14 and over. The parent or guardian must review these terms and conditions and must take responsibility for the actions of the under 14-year-old whilst they using Products or Memberships. 2.3 � OBJECTIONABLE MATERIAL Customers hereby acknowledge that Products and memberships purchased on Lotusflow3r may include content that might be judged as offensive, objectionable, or containing explicit language. Lotusflow3r accepts no liability for content that Customers may judge to be offensive, indecent, or objectionable. 2.4 � HEALTH RISKS Lotusflow3r accepts no liability for any health risks that may be exacerbated by use of the Products and Memberships that it makes available. 2.5 � SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS Certain system requirements may be needed for Customers to gain full enjoyment from the Products and Memberships sold by . Customers will require a broadband Internet connection and Flash 9. Customers must acknowledge and agree that such system requirements are met, and no refunds will be given by Lotusflow3r to customers who failed to ensure that system requirements were met before purchasing Products or Membership. Lotusflow3r reserves the right to change system requirements at any time. 2.6 � PERSONAL INFORMATION Customers agree to provide accurate, current, and complete information as required for either Memberships or the purchase of individual Products. Customers must agree to maintain and update Membership registration data as required to keep it accurate, current, and complete. Lotusflow3r reserves the right to terminate Memberships (without refund) and block further sales to Customers who provide false, inaccurate or incomplete data. Customers must agree that Lotusflow3r may store and use any personal data provided for use in maintaining your accounts and billing fees to your credit card. Please refer to the Privacy Policy regarding further use of personal information. 2.7 � USER ACCOUNTS As a registered Customer of Lotusflow3r, Customers may receive or establish an account ("Account"). Customers are solely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality and security of their Account. Customers should not reveal their Account information to anyone else, nor should they use Accounts other than their own. Customers agree to immediately notify Lotusflow3r of any unauthorized use of their Account. Lousflow3r.com accepts no responsibility for any losses arising out of the unauthorized use of Accounts. 2.8 � SECURITY Customers hereby acknowledge that Memberships and Products purchased through Lotusflow3r include a security framework using technology that protects digital information and limits usage of Memberships and Products to certain usage rules ("Rules of Use") established by Lotusflow3r and detailed below. Customers hereby agree to comply with the Rules of Use, and hereby agree not to attempt to, or assist another person to, circumvent, reverse-engineer, decompile, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any of the security components related to these Rules of Use. Violations of system or network security by Customers may result in civil or criminal liability. Lotusflow3r reserves the right to enforce the Rules of Use with, or without, notice to Customers. 2.9 � USE OF DOWNLOADED MATERIAL Downloaded material (�Files�), whether purchased as individual Products or as part of a Membership, are for personal, non-commercial use only. Customers agree not to copy or share Files with other individuals. The commercial use, copying or sharing of files by customers may result in the cancellation of membership (without refund), and Lotusflow3r reserves the right to inform law enforcement agencies of suspected misuse of Files by customers. Files may only be downloaded once; after being downloaded, they cannot be replaced if lost for any reason. Once a File is purchased and received by the Customer, it is their responsibility not to lose, destroy, or damage the File, and Lotusflow3r accepts no liability for such loss, destruction, or damage. Customers agree to download Files only to machines that they own, or of which they are the primary user of and have permission to download Files to from the owner of the machine. Lotusflow3r accepts no responsibility for the loss of files, or the loss of earnings, arising from Customers downloading Files to machines that they do not own. Nothing contained in these Terms and Conditions shall limit the rights and remedies available to lotusflow3r in the event of a violation of this paragraph by a Customer. Customers hereby agree to use Products, Memberships and Files in compliance with the applicable Rules of Use. 3 - RULES OF USE 3.1 - Customers may only use Products, Memberships and Files from Lotusflow3r after having agreed to comply with the following Rules of Use. 3.2 - Customers are authorized to use Products, Memberships and Files only for personal, noncommercial use. 3.3 - Customers shall be authorized to burn purchased audio tracks once, for personal use only. 3.4 - Customers are not entitled to burn video Files. 3.5 - Any burning or exporting capabilities are solely an accommodation to the Customer and shall not constitute a grant or waiver (or other limitation or implication) of any rights of the copyright owners in any audio or video content, sound recording, underlying musical composition, or artwork embodied in any Product or Membership. 3.6 - Customers agree not to attempt to, or encourage, or assist any other person to, circumvent or modify any security technology or software that is part of Lotusflow3r. 3.7 - The delivery of Products, Memberships and Files does not transfer any commercial or promotional use rights to the Customer. 3.8 - Customers agree to pay for all Products and Memberships, and are responsible for providing valid credit card details. If you want to designate a different credit card, you hereby change your credit card information online at the Account Info section of Lotusflow3r. (There may be a temporary disruption of your Membership access until Lotusflow3r can verify the validity of the new credit card. Prices and availability of Products and Memberships are subject to change at any time. Customer use of Lotusflow3r includes the ability to enter into agreements and/or to make transactions electronically. Customers hereby acknowledge that electronic submissions constitute an agreement and intent to be bound by all agreements and to pay for all transactions, including notices of cancellation, policies and contracts. In order to access and retain electronic records, customers may be required to have certain hardware and software, which are your sole responsibility. 3.9 - On occasion, technical problems or file sizes may delay or prevent delivery of Files. Lotusflow3r will replace files when notified of a problem by the customer, within the period of two weeks from notification. 3.10 - Customers agree that ownership of all Products, Files, audio clips, video clips, editorial content, graphic design etc. found on Lotusflow3r remains the property of either Prince or Lotusflow3r, and is protected by applicable intellectual property and other laws, including but not limited to copyright. Customers agree not to use such proprietary information or materials in any way whatsoever except in compliance with the terms of this Agreement. Customers agree not to modify, rent, lease, loan, sell, distribute, or create derivative works based Products or other materials (including copy and graphics) found on Lotusflow3r. Infringement on the intellectual property rights of others may subject customers to civil and criminal penalties, including possible monetary damages for copyright infringement[1]. 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or discontinue Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. 3.12 - Customers hereby agree to comply with all local, state, federal, and national laws, statutes, ordinances, and regulations that apply to their use of the Service. Customers hereby also agree that Lotusflow3r has the right, without liability to you, to disclose any Registration Data and/or Account information to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as is reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement. 3.13 - Lotusflow3r does not guarantee that use of Lotusflow3r, Memberships and/or Products will be error-free or uninterrupted. Lotusflow3r may remove all or part of the website or Products without notice to customers. Customers agree that their use of (or inability to use) Memberships and Products is at their own risk. In no case shall Lotusflow3r or any of its employees be liable for any direct or indirect damages arising, in any way, from any Customers use of Lotusflow3r Memberships or Products. Lotusflow3r shall make reasonable efforts to protect information submitted by customers, but customers hereby acknowledge that submission of information remains at their sole risk. Lotusflow3r does not guarantee that Products and Memberships will be free from viruses, interference, hacking, loss or corruption. 3.14 - Customers agree to indemnify and hold Lotusflow3r, its directors and employees harmless with respect to claims arising out of breach of this agreement. Customers may not sue or recover damages from Lotusflow3r, its directors and employees as a result of any decision any of the above should make to remove or refuse access to Customers, or to take any other action during the investigation of a suspected violation. 3.15 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right, at any time, to update, revise, supplement, and otherwise modify this Agreement, and to impose new or additional rules, policies, terms, or conditions, which will be effective immediately. All Additional Terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. These changes may be without notice, so, Customers should review these Terms and Conditions periodically. 3.16 - The laws of the State of California, excluding its conflicts of law rules, govern these Terms and Conditions. Customers hereby agree that exclusive jurisdiction for any claim or dispute with Lotusflow3r resides in the courts of the State of California. These Terms of Service constitute the entire agreement between the Customer and Lotusflow3r, and govern your use of the website, Membership and Products, superseding any prior agreements between you and Lotusflow3r and any of its directors or employees. Lotusflow3r's failure to enforce any right or provisions in these Terms of Service will not constitute a waiver of such provision, or any other provision of these Terms of Service. If any provision of this Agreement is found by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, the other provisions will remain in full force and effect. Lotusflow3r will not be responsible for failures to fulfill any obligations due to causes beyond its control. In the event of any action, suit, or proceeding arising from or based upon this agreement brought by either party hereto against the other, the prevailing party shall be entitled to recover from the other its reasonable attorneys' fees in connection therewith in addition to the costs of such action, suit, or proceeding.  The meek shall inherit the earth  | |
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4THEtearsINyourEYEs said: TERMS AND CONDITIONS
I skimmed. But this was my favorite part: 2.4 � HEALTH RISKS
Lotusflow3r accepts no liability for any health risks that may be exacerbated by use of the Products and Memberships that it makes available. | |
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ThreadBare said: TheEnglishGent said: The point is, we're only a month into something for which we've paid for a year. It's way too early for serious complaints.
Maybe the complaining fans would disagree. A lot of folks posting on this forum say they've been duped, to put it mildly. they've only been duped by their own expectations, nothing has been promised. If we get go the end of the year and haven't had much else, I'll be moaning with the best of them but as it stands, we have no idea what's coming. If nothing else does come it will be really poor. RIP | |
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I'm pissed but it's all good. Prince will never receive a single penny of my money for any website ventures again. | |
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Graycap23 said: I'm pissed but it's all good. Prince will never receive a single penny of my money for any website ventures again.
u tell him! | |
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unique said: u tell him!  | |
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3.13 - Lotusflow3r does not guarantee that use of Lotusflow3r, Memberships and/or Products will be error-free or uninterrupted. Lotusflow3r may remove all or part of the website or Products without notice to customers.
 and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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IstenSzek said: 3.13 - Lotusflow3r may remove all or part of the website or Products without notice to customers.
And they will exercise that right as sure as monkeys throw poop. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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1.4 - LOTUSFLOW3ER.COM MEMBERSHIPS
Lotusflow3r memberships are valid for one calendar year from date of purchase, and are non-refundable. Membership includes access to restricted areas of Lotusflow3r, access to pre-sale concert tickets, and the ability to download music and videos from Lotusflow3r. | |
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Spank86 said: 1.4 - LOTUSFLOW3ER.COM MEMBERSHIPS
Lotusflow3r memberships are valid for one calendar year from date of purchase, and are non-refundable. Membership includes access to restricted areas of Lotusflow3r, access to pre-sale concert tickets, and the ability to download music and videos from Lotusflow3r. The ability to download videos.
You can. But they don't want you to. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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The BBB has pretty much ZERO pull.
All they do is list a company as having complaints and how many. Potential customers can look you up to see if there's opinions on a business, but only if that business signed up and paid dues for "membership" A Business is "Accredited" by just paying membership fees and not receiving complaints. Am I wrong? | |
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