If u havent already, go 2 the npgmc and read this latest article. There is so much negativity about the club and its so dissapointing 2 hear fams get lost in the throws of gimme gimme gimme... I think this article by npgmc explains the true value of the club, take time 2 read it, disgest it and understand it. Dont dismiss it out of hand but take the time 2 consider what npgmc is saying... thing s r about 2 get rowdy. ps. did u get the hint about the DVD?

yer freakin' KIDDING me with this jack, right? excuse me, DVD'S??? i don't remember receiving no DVD's, do you? and if (as you might retort) they end up sending one to end the membership, that'd be TIGHT! but why not tell us? they tell us NOTHING and still haven't answered my polite e-mails about whether my box was shipped to my old or new address. so mine's probably sitting in some ups warehouse with "return to sender" stamped on it. sigh... by the way, i'm only polite in the e-mails in the hopes of getting them to respond (i respond to e-mails all day for customer service for an online bill pay co.) - if i had my druthers i'd be sarcastic and rude as SHIT...just like they are.

phew!

i gotta get me a new suit, i'm 'bout to sweat this one OUT!!

childofthedawn said:

Yeah, I got the hint. Say? - see that carrot? Follow, donkey boy.

Im not following no carrots, i dont like them. I like 2 make up my own mind and my own decisions, its part of being free. I am jusy fully supportive of the npgmc. I am a Prince Fam, i support him. Hes not God, r u? Hes not perfect, r u ? i take on board peoples complaints, things arent always good. But the overall aim is progression and it will get there wether u,me or any1 is there! U can critize me all u want 4 supporting them but u cant take away what u didnt give me
[This message was edited Thu Nov 28 12:37:27 PST 2002 by childofthedawn]

BLueangel, I'm right there with you.

I've went so far as to call Gage Marketing Services (gage.com) to see if one of them could answer my question. Let me frank, the people I've spoken to have no idea about NPGMC and that scares me. Anyway, I'm stillwaiting to see which address they shipped to. Oh by the way, guys, if you read the label on the packages they ship- there's a message for postal to just leave it. Do not forward, do not return. Wrong address? Oh well not our problem.

Well, just read the new commentary and will now offer a re-post here and my thoughts on the subjects mentioned.

Just finished typing, so thought I would come back here. Probably going to ruffle a few feathers but I don't mean to upset anyone. These are just my thoughts and I am entitled to them, jsut as you are to yours. It does not make me right or you wrong, unless you are rdhull because he is always right!, (jk RD).

Although it may not sound like it from the below, I have enjoyed the club and will join next year. If only for the fact that I don't want to miss anything. Yes I know, maaad!



"Freedom, Pt. 2: The Chocolate Invasion
In the first part of this commentary, we discussed how the “technical” appearance of the NPG Music Club might mislead some people in2 thinking that the Club is just another machine churning out musical product 4 consumers. "

Well I don't think that anyone here is under any delusions that the club is "churning out musical product". In fact some new music would be wonderfull. Yes, I am really looking forwards to the live set, but some new unreleased music would not go too far amiss.


"As current NPGMC members know, nothing could b farther from the Truth. Its use of direct-access technologies is a clear indication that it has moved far beyond the traditional approaches of the recording industry. It uses technology 4 what it is meant 2 b, i.e. a tool that can b employed 2 realize a vision — not an end in and of itself. "

Direct access technologies? Are they talking about the internet? Every man and his dog uses the internet today, the only direct access we have had this year is silicon and 1+1+1 is 3. Silicon we had last year and 1+1 is from the live set anyway. Ah, but wait a minute. These technologies are only, "a tool that can be employed". Obviously this year the tool is not being employed. Last year they used it superbly and the club was a fantastic experience, providing you had internet access. Yes there were problems reaching the site when the downloads first went up, but if you were happy to wait a few days, everything was cool.




"Some people might also b misled in2 thinking that the NPG Music Club is just another commercial venture. On the surface, it appears like it is : people connect 2 the site, punch in their in4mation and credit card number, r charged a fee, and in xchange r granted access 2 the xclusive section of the site, xclusive merchandise, and other membership privileges. 2 some, this might appear 2 b a regular capitalist venture — i.e. a machine designed, first and 4most, 2 generate income. But is it? "

Sounds like a commercial venture to me!



"How Much?
Such a perspective ignores the most fundamental aspect of the Club, which is not how it operates, what technology it uses, or how much revenue it generates — but the very things that it has 2 offer, and the people that it offers them 2. The success of the Club cannot b measured by the industry’s traditional tools 4 assessing success, such as sales charts or radio play lists. It is best measured by the quality of the things it has 2 offer, and by the value that these things have 4 the people that it offers them 2. "


Ahh, so how the club operates is not a fundamental aspect to the peeps at NPGMC, this explains why it is being run so poorly this year. The club must be measured by what it has to offer. This is fine and in this respect, I am actually quite happy, (believe it or not). The problem here is that the value of the things offered have is quite tangiable, $100 for concert tickets, however much for the celebration, extortionate shipping fees for overseas customers. It seems that most things offered by the club are assigned a $ value by them. Of course I don't expect to get free concert tickets, that would be madness. What upsets me it the large number of people who couldn't get members tickets and had to sit behind non members. This should not be allowed to happen. If the venue sells out to members, fair enough. If not, then as many as want should get tickets and after the pre-sale, when numbers are known, the rest can go on general sale.


"How much is the opportunity 2 attend a soundcheck by Prince & The NPG and an interactive chat session with the artists worth 2 u? "

The sound checks were well worth it and were very cool, but let's be honest here. Prince will do a sound check regardless of wether we are there or not, so in reality is only giving us the opportunity to sit in, not really doing much extra for us. Neverless the less, I was grateful to be allowed in to see them. I think I missed the "interactive chat session". Good job really, he might not have liked my questions.


"How much is the opportunity 2 attend a week-long celebration in Prince’s own Paisley Park Studios — with hours and hours of xclusive live per4mances as well as intimate sessions with highly talented musicians — worth 2 u?"
That would have been cool, but how much is it worth? Was it $250 or $500, I can't remember. Either way, that's how much it was worth. Maybe I would answer differently had I gone, that sadly was not possible.


"How much is the opportunity 2 purchase front-row tickets 4 the next Prince & The NPG concert in ur town b4 they go on sale 2 the general public worth 2 u? "

FRONT ROW TICKETS?!? The chance would be a fine thing, I purchased general access tickets. What does this mean? It means that, unless I am prepared to queue up for 5+ hours, I am getting nowhere near the front row. Now, without wanting to disrespect anyone, what people would queue for 5+ hours to do this? Fans, that's who. The people who call themselves fams because that's what Prince calls them. The odd thing is that now that he is a JW, or if not, then a highly studied almost member, this behaviour goes against the very grain of what he believes. I think it is the first commandment that you should not worship any other idols other than God. Queuing for hours, shouting out, "we love you Prince" and behaviour like that, is actually worshipping him.

"How much is the opportunity 2 hear and own new Prince recordings and attend Prince shows — in which he is not constrained by any commercial considerations and has no artistic compromises 2 make — worth 2 u? "

Since when were his shows constrained? I remember once when picking up an award he gave a speech that included the sentence, "In concert, perfectly free. On record, slave". As for owning new Prince recordings where he is not constrained, yes please I want those please. Any clues where they might be coming from?


"How much is the opportunity 2 own CDs and DVDs of such shows worth 2 u? "

Now we are talking, yes we got some live CD's coming, does that mean a DVD is coming? Things are looking up.

"Everything piles up! It’s just that NPG Music Club members r using a different kind of “chart” — one that doesn’t measure success by how many million records the record company has sold, by how many thousand tickets the concert promoter has sold, by how many magazine covers have hit the stands. The Club is based on a new kind of value scale, and its language is foreign 2 the recording industry and the old mind frame it is trying 2 perpetuate. Somebody might want 2 tell them 2 hire a translator… "

I think the language is foreign to me also this year.

"When u purchase organic foods or “fair trade” coffee beans, u r not just a consumer buying a product. U r a human being making ethical choices. U r buying things from someone who cares as much about the quality of their product and the fairness of their practices as u do. "

Can't argue with that. Only to say that the coffee bean supplier sends out as many coffee beans as they can and the shops are always stocked with them. If Prince was sending, or making available for download, his new music the club would be the greatest thing a person into his music could ask for.

"U r buying things with a brand new currency, one that consists, not of coins and bills, but of quality, justice, and trust. And THAT is the kind of “commercial” venture that the NPG Music Club is. "

Hold on, I am sure I brought things with $'s must be missing something again. Trust, I trust that the club will send us two more CD's to complete the agreed 4. Am I mad?!?


"Think About It
When is the last time u spent a hundred bucks on a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant or on a trendy piece of clothing? Was it worth it? Is a subscription 2 the NPG Music Club worth it? If u really need 2 know, u can always ask one of those people sitting in the front row when they come out after the show… "

Have I spent $100 on a meal and clothes, sure I have. I spend $100 on a meal after I have eaten it, if I am not satisfied I get a discount. Doesn't happen often but I will not pay top $ for a poor service. With clothing, I get to try it on before I part with my money, so I know what it looks like and can make a decision on value before parting with my cash. With the club, it comes back to trust. If they are saying one thing, then not delivering where can the trust be for next year?

"Yes, Club membership has a price… but it is not the price u might think. The price u have 2 pay is that u have 2 adjust ur mind 2 a different approach, one where money is not the goal. The price is that this readjustement might lead u 2 re-evaluate other aspects of ur life and of the world around u. Think about it… Imagine a wealthy farmer with no middle man, where u can buy fresh produce directly from the source… Imagine a wealthy teacher with no school system 2 dictate their pay… Imagine quality and fairness in all aspects of ur world. "

Imagine a world that doesn't exist, only in Prince's mind. Guess I need to get being brainwashed to see the distorted view of reality that comes from being surrounded by yes people.

"The NPG Music Club can offer what it has 2 offer because Prince is free. And the revenue generated by the Club allows the process 2 continue and organically grow. The reason 4 the Club’s success is its members, and the very notion of freedom itself. Systems that r run with the Truth at their center r self-sufficient. They do not need 2 b supported by an “industry” or bridling corporate structure. "

Well, this offers hope that the club will continue and that it will get bettter. Or am I beginning to be brainwashed now?

"The Future
All this, lest we forget, is only the beginning. There is simply no telling how funky a new kind of venture such as the NPG Music Club might become. With no corporate constraints, with no ceiling, literally, “the sky is the limit”… Everything just stacks : live shows, aftershows, soundchecks, recordings, interactivity, community, merchandise, etc. — and the mind boggles! "

If only...


"So, instead of speculating about the past and what “might have been” (the short answer being, as always : “It wasn’t.”), let’s speculate about the future. U just know this thing can only grow, and grow, and grow… With truth and freedom at its core, it simply cannot fail. "

So they admit it then, the short answer of, "it wasn't" sums up the club this year. Unless they sort something out before year end, I am still hoping. It sounds like they are saying, forget 2002, it's gonna be better 2003. Let's just hope they remember the truth bit.




"Freedom is contagious. Freedom is infectious. Freedom is addictive. Freedom is funky. U have been warned : The Chocolate Invasion of ur mind starts here. "

I knew it, slowly they are brainwashing me!!!

Damn that was long, guess I need two cups of tea now!

How much is the opportunity 2 attend a soundcheck by Prince & The NPG and an interactive chat session with the artists worth 2 u?

Its worth the money I paid in the concert ticket. If this were a membership benefit then I could attend the soundcheck without purchasing a concert ticket at $100 a pop. Same goes for the "aftershows" as many were turned away from the Marquee in London for having the wrong colour laminate from a previous night.


How much is the opportunity 2 attend a week-long celebration in Prince’s own Paisley Park Studios — with hours and hours of xclusive live per4mances as well as intimate sessions with highly talented musicians — worth 2 u?

Again, a great point but flawed by the point that you have to pay an additional entrance fee. This is not a member benefit as such.

How much is the opportunity 2 purchase front-row tickets 4 the next Prince & The NPG concert in ur town b4 they go on sale 2 the general public worth 2 u?

As someone who lives in London, I have to admit that this has been of benefit to me, although the prices for the shows were astronomical and something should be done to give the members a better deal on ticket prices. The argument back from NPGMC has been that the member price is higher than the public price as it includes the soundcheck and after-party access however this clearly contradicts point 1.

How is this a benefit to the members in Australia though I wonder ?

How much is the opportunity 2 hear and own new Prince recordings and attend Prince shows — in which he is not constrained by any commercial considerations and has no artistic compromises 2 make — worth 2 u?

Eh ? This one just doesn't makes sense and sounds like someone's shouted around "anyone got a fourth benefit we can chuck in ???" Non-members were allowed to the gig and non-members can buy the ONA-Live album. If Prince isn't constrained by commercial considerations why were the ticket prices so high and Prince even say "do you think Rhonda doesn't deserve a bonus?" at one of the gigs ? So staff wages aren't a commercial consideration eh ? I must mention that to my employees at the next round of pay reviews !!

How much is the opportunity 2 own CDs and DVDs of such shows worth 2 u?

Oh dear, someone really is scraping the barrell now aren't they ? Firstly WHAT DVD's ??? Secondly read the above response, this only works if the live cd's are exclusive to members which they are clearly not.

The overall tone of the last point is in fact insulting saying "what are they worth to us". This isn't a bidding war, if Prince is really not interested in commercial consideration then he would be selling the cd's to us at cost not asking us what they're worth.

I'm sorry but as much as this article rambles on about commerciality and how it should be treated like an enterprise then an open book accounting should be used where its clearly demonstrated that profits are not being made.

Yes, Club membership has a price… but it is not the price u might think. The price u have 2 pay is that u have 2 adjust ur mind 2 a different approach, one where money is not the goal.

SO if money is not the goal, memberships free then next year is it ?

Yeah!

I want the DVD!!!

this is the kind of discussion prince or the npg music club staff should be confronted with.

childofthedawn said:

i would say it would be more dissapointing if we really would be seeing the club not keep their promisses and you saying that they do.

english gent, i may not agree with all ur views, but i have 2 say that was excellent! Thanx 4 adding such constructive and thought provoking material 2 my thread. BRAVO dear boy BRAVO!

TheEnglishGent said

{In regard to the NPGMusicClub Freedom Commentary quote}
"So, instead of speculating about the past and what “might have been” (the short answer being, as always : “It wasn’t.”) - So they admit it then, the short answer of, "it wasn't" sums up the club this year. Unless they sort something out before year end, I am still hoping. It sounds like they are saying, forget 2002, it's gonna be better 2003. Let's just hope they remember the truth bit.

___

Animal Kingdom said:

Perhaps you are misinterpreting what the commentary refers to with the statement "it wasn't." I don't think this is referring to the club not happening in 2002. Rather, I think it is referencing speculation by people / fans (or whoever) regarding what could have been "if only" Prince would have done this, "if only" Prince would have done that (i.e. stayed with Warner Bros. / career choice issues / music releases, etc). The first commentary talks about this speculation and the second commentary simply reinterates that there is no use to speculating on what could have been - because "it wasn't."
Just my take on it...