Jon said:

Well I don't think my point is muted. Acts like Eminem anger gay rights and women groups because of their content. Yet they still manage to sell millions. I don't necessarily think there is a correlation between an acts subject content vs. how well he sells...unless it's the more outrageous the more you sell...you seem the be arguing the opposite w/Prince.

HUGE sections of society are alienated by many artists that not only sell controversial music but "sell" it outside the music. Look how Eminen or ODB look,act...they act in accordance with the content of their music.

The possibility may exist though that Prince is distinctly different from such commercial acts in that he has maybe only 500,000 die hard fans who might be alienated by such messages on his web-site. That may be the case...especially if you believe he has done a 180 throughout the years. That certainly is left up to interpretation.

Still, he has always talked about God and Christ in his music...reciting the Our Father on Controversy!!! Surely that should have alienated his Jewish, Atheist and Muslim fans back in 1980! So maybe your right Jon but I don't agree. The org is like the Prince media...the people who disagree with the content of Prince's music and threaten to not be a fan anymore may seem like it's blown out of proportion when in reality most of us know what to expect from Prince and have learned to live with it.

Plus maybe the "controversial" lyrical content of the music (not to mention the high quality music of TRC) gains enough NEW fans to offset the ones that leave. We're probably talking about a small number leaving vs. a small number coming in. It's like letting 10 people in a club cuz 10 left.

Prince's decline in popularity, mind you, didn't coincide with his change in religious views.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 8:34:10 PDT 2002 by divo02]

divo02 said:

but what happened to the inclussionary prince that way knew and loved? what happened to "love is god and god is love...girls and boys seek god above?"

now he would have written those lyrics as "my love for god...only my god is love...girls and boys, seek my god above"

U know what...to tell u the truth, Prince probablly only hopes that the ones who greatly vary from his values/beleifs...just stay away.

The man brings us to his house, trusts us to a degree, U would want those around u to b somewhat on the same road as you.

The man oviously dont put the $$ before his beleifs, or values...as he shouldnt.

yeah but pluv..read my above statement

SkletonKee said:

In that same song SkletonKee, he says "Save me Jesus, I've been a fool, how could I forget you are the rule, You are my God, I am your child" or something like that. I think you can find alot of Prince's older material not inclusive in that they are Christian themed.

but thats *his* discussion with *his* god..its not exclusionary because i can relate to the desperation...we all can...

but, when he starts singling out other faiths or views and belittling them... it creates an obstruction between artist and fan...the joy of prince is that i was always able to relate to his music and his message...while i dont believe in heaven, i still can have hope that we will all be able to *live to see the dawn*, dawn for me is peace on this earth....but i can relate to the hope that prince sang about...

however, now it seems that his message is that only a few will live to see this dawn..and this isnt a Jehovah Witness thang..my grandmother never excludes me from her life or her views of utopia, heaven or whatever is it thats supposed to happen after armegedon...

its just prince being an arse...
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 11:11:25 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

Jon said:

It's truly naive for anyone to think that Prince's most hardcore fans wouldn't "give the guy shit" even if he posted that joke on another site. These are Prince fans we're talking about. In some cases some of them the most irrational, double standard holding fans I've ever witnessed. Many of them will seek out every syllable the guy utters, you can bet the farm they'll react the exact same way regardless of where something like that joke was posted.

Skletonkee said:

No, 'twas not me who said anything about it, because I never said it was a new found interest - if anybody thinks it is they just haven't paid attention, or are simply in denial because he was singing explicitly about pussy and could overlook it. As far as saying anything about hypocrisy, I don't think I've said that in this thread yet either. But stay tuned...

Jon said:

This is an illogical analogy.
Who puts a sticker regarding their views over a cd case? The views of recording artists, whatever they may be, are the content of the songs. And anyone who says that Prince has never allowed his views to be aired within the content of his songs, well...that reeks of denial.

divo02 said:

Ya think?

Jon said:

Not only that; he has chosen to become an independent recording artist. Therefore, his site is not beholden to any major record label and/or to any conglomerates within the music industry. Do I agree with everything he says? Hell no. But he has been doing this for 20+ years, there is no logical reason to expect him to tune it down now. The way some folks here act is as if he was talking about murdering his mother/raping some woman - like MANY performers who ARE beholden to major label conglomerates.

For the disgruntled, the best most easiest way to air your views are simply to put your money where your mouth is, and STOP PUTTING MONEY IN PRINCE'S POCKETS.

I don't think Prince is naive enough to believe everyone will agree with him or continue to go along for the ride. Whether or not anyone agrees, it's a fact that it takes balls to spell his religious convictions out the way he does at the risk of a portion of his fanbase. It's ALWAYS a risk to stand steadfast in your convictions. Whatever they may be. I don't agree at all with the song "Sister", but I sure as hell dig that ditty! Though since his convictions are not partly about singing explicitly about pussy anymore, nobody wants to hear anything else from him. Curious, that.

divo02 said:

Co-sign.

Skletonkee said:

Isn't he still saying the same thing, among other things included?

See, I really believe that had Prince's most devoted fans NOT found out who he was studying with, and what some of the content was, that this would NOT be an issue - or at least not be nearly as big an issue. But since they do know, the JW affiliation holds a stigma that will never go away.

I would say that maybe it's time for those who are pissed at Prince to get off the roller coaster ride. But I know nobody will.

supernova- are we actually agreeing lately??? I'm sure it's a fluke.

divo02 said:

'S gotta be.

I'm outta here!

Supernova said:

your right...and ive said in previous threads that im starting to think im at that point...however, i 100% disagre with your opinion that he is still preaching inclussion...and i reference my concert experiences and his website for examples...

i of all people dont feel threatened by his JW affilation..like i have said many o times, my grandmother is a witness..and even she dislikes the stories ive told her about prince...she says he is going about witnessing the *wrong* way...

sure, i know prince has the right to do what he wants...sure, we all know he is an arse whole..im just sharing my views, like everyone else...i dont think anyone is taking this debate *that* serious...

wax the logic!!!

ok...let me ask this.
atheists dont believe in God, an afterlife, etc. correct?
well then why would that joke offend any atheists???
is it because it is simply stating that they are not going to Heaven or to an afterlife???
well they dont believe in Heaven or an afterlife anyways do they???
so where is the offense here??

You know what I think...I think Prince is playin a mind trip on those who are confused and dont know what to believe...making u think.

If that joke /comment offended you then it tells a little more about yourself that your not sure about Heaven or an afterlife.

During the 2nd celebration in the discussion group I was in with Prince, there was this guy there who participated in the discussion and had idnetified himself as an atheist.
The guy went onto to say " Im an atheist, I do not believe in God...and I am a good person, I have never hurt anyone, etc. so IF there is a God, then Im sure he would let me slide and go to Heaven"...Prince cracked up laughing, and said..."oh? he will let you slide huh"

Now, answer me this...a true atheist would not even state the possibility of "If there is a God" would they???
This isnt an atheist...this is a lost person not knowing what to believe is it not???
Therefore if that lil joke about all dressed up having no where to go offended you...then maybe thats tellin you a little bit about yourself, that maybe you should explore for yourself...provoked by Prince.

Preach on sista! I agree, if ever offense is taken then most of the time, personally, I would say, the person taking the offense has a lack of confidence somewhere. Check urself, where's ur mind at? Better yet, where's ur heart really at? It ain't 2 late yet, but u never know when it will b. "Rise up" y'all.

Peace

Pluv said:

Sdldawn, thanks for making the effort in expressing your disappointement with Prince/NPG. You've taken a lot of heat here so I thought that I would share this with you in hopes that you will continue to speak up. Saying anything, is better than saying nothing at all.

A Word About The Power Of Silence

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.

Then they come for the trade unionist
and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak for me.


Pastor Niemoeller (victim of the Nazis)

Pluv said:

I agree with Jon and Skleton. Whether this so called "joke" offends any atheists or not, the point is that it was unprofessional and in very poor taste, no matter who makes it.

It is truly sad that we still live in a society where biased comments based on, race, sexual orientation, family composition, culture, socioeconomic status, age, beliefs (political/religious), ability (physical, mental), appearance and sex are still made without much regard.
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 20:03:12 PDT 2002 by ronnie]

Totally agree Ronnie

It is truly sad that we still live in a society where biased comments based on, race, sexual orientation, family composition, culture, socioeconomic status, age, beliefs (political/religious), ability (physical, mental), appearance and sex are still made without much regard.[/quote]

i think its truly sad that we live in an age where political correctness has gone mad and noone has the ability to see a harmlesss joke for what it is without jumping on the bandwagon and trying to see who might be offended, as an atheist i found the joke amusing, not hilarious as its not that funny, but certainly not offensive, please dont get me wrong as im not trying to speciffically aim my comments at you but the wider picture of political correctness i feel strongly about, i grew up in england, i was brought up to respect everyone no matter what there race sex or sexual orientation was and i was happy with that, then came the lefty liberal lunatics who made it thier mission to ban the use of the term blackboard, or black coffee, or the nursery ryme bah bah black sheep as it would offend blacks, these were white liberals i must point out, so now in england u have a situation where people like myself end up feeling resentment for these ludicrous acts of supposed racial harmony, and what do u think the black community order when the they go to a cafe, a non white coffee, i dont think so, because this lunacy pisses them off more than it does me, one university has changed the name of history to past sciences as HIStory is apparently sexist, just remember everthing goes in swings and roundabouts, and political movements will eventually create a backlash in the other direction as the masses get sick of certain ideas, the backlash against politiacal correctness is a frightening concept and is in my opinion on its way in the next decade or so, and the left wing liberals will have only thereselves to blaim.
.
.

Thank you Sdldawn, Skletonkee and Jon for your well stated views. I have nothing to add that you haven't already said...

Pluv said:

Ya think?