IceNine said:

[Image of Mini Me kicking Prince's ass] Could happen.

GoldiesParade said:

What are you talking about, could happen? It is a well-documented fact that Prince has a restraining order out against Gary Coleman...

IceNine said:

I only wish I saw it. I bet he fights like a girly.

GoldiesParade said:

From what I understand, he came out acting all manly and stuff but descended to scratching, slapping and biting when it came down to action...

Coleman had him on the ground in about 6 seconds and it was over soon after... Prince couldn't throw blows with a REAL man.

IceNine said:

I bet there was hair pulling and nail digging.

GoldiesParade said:

Yep... sources also say that Prince thought about kicking Mr. Coleman in the testicles but decided against it, stating that he believed that Mr. Coleman might become really enraged by that technique, and instead opted for the slap-fest that ensued.

Luckily, Mr. Coleman's head had recently been shaved, thus eliminating the diminuative pop star's primary attack plan.

...
[This message was edited Thu Jul 11 14:01:53 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

IceNine said:

BITCH SLAPPING cool

GoldiesParade said:

Unfortunately for our short hero, Gary Coleman opted to PIMP SLAP instead of bitch slap and was victorious.

herbthe4 said:

just laughin' at the misspelling of prey, should've been pray...right???
ease up...i did read the rest...good post

IceNine said:

made my eyeballs ache

Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended — and Y?

Au contraire, since Prince doesn't feel like touring europe anymore, i'm waiting in anticipation the bootleggs of the per4mances, some were quite good i heard.

Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?
I'm presuming this question did not include the little man himself, since he seem 2 have beef with about half of the people he worked with in that place.
Lets c, if u xclude alcohol and sigarettes, u charge big membership and big ticket prices, u'r eliminating most of the scum. Btw, i read several complaints about line picking and stuff, so it went smooth, but could've been smoother

In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?
Borders can b created to increase stability, 4 protection, 4 order, ... They can also b created 4 xclusion, hostility, egoism. 4xample when u charge xcessif ticket prices, u'r creating a border between rich and poor, when u support 1 religion u'r creating borders between believers and non believers. Borders should b erased when the funk drops bcause wealth, opinions, origins, ... should no longer matter, only the music should. Can i stress 'should'?

The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether — but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?
The only truth is there is no truth and the only worshipping that should take place is the worshipping of each individuals freedom 2 blieve and support there own, by definition wrong, truth.


Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”? Just how big is r human family?
God is like u'r favorite football team: there r many teams, and everybody can choose which team he or she supports, or not 2 support a team, or 2 think football is stupid, or 2 play a little football on u'r own without watching the big boys play. Fact is, if everybody supports the same team, everybody will get along. But since it's impossible 2 tell wich team will win in the end, and all individuals have different reasons 2 support one, or no team, this is unlikely. There4 the only thing what will keep the family 2gether is the freedom 2 b a football fan or not, and the respect 4 the choices of the other family members.


2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?
If a prayer is a converation with whatever god u want, i'd been pretty pissed cause i was there 2 xperience the funk and not the creation of borders. If a prayer is an individual, contemplative moment, i wouldn't have mind, but then again, nobody should do that 4 me.

What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one?
What point is there 2 pray 2 one god when there r different? What point is there 2 pray to a god when there is non? What point is there in asking suggestive questions about something u, i or anybody that is know shit about. When the final judgement comes (if there is such a freaky thing in the first place), u'd think the Big Dude (Dudes, Dudess, ...) would prefer u were tolerant 2 all men and his beliefs, or that u forced one (very possibly wrong) selfish opinion on2 everybody?


We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?
State ... as in organised society ... as in respecting other peoples freedom ... as in allowing condoms or divorce ... as in allowing woman 2 b equal 2 men ... as in freedom of speech, thought ... as in democracy mayb. But mayb some would consider this regress...


Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?
Bcause there is no such thing, there's only our miserable short lived xistence as i peace of dust floating around. And instead of making this an as pleasant xperience as it could b, some just can't handle it and ruine the fun by trying 2 give it all a deeper or bigger meaning.

How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?
Honestly? worldwide communism. But no human is as honest or compassionate 2 make that work, so lets stick 2 elimination of fear, acting 4 the best of all, not only u'rself, 4giving the past, understanding mistakes, and since this is a top-down society, this should b a top down process. Trying 2 understand without beeing understood is important.

7 days of music, peace, and love — and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?
Actually there is some music, peace and love in the real world also. Sadly there is not enough of it. But when u put the 3 2gether, shouldn't u try to protest in the music against what prevents peace and love in the real world. Or at least ignore it, bcause it takes away the magic of the music

What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?
2 me, harmony cannot xcist without some very basic level of agreement. People should b able 2 agree on the right to disagree. People should als agree on some very basic freedoms, and support these freedoms as more important than their individual opinions.

Clive85 said:

WHO TOLD YOU ABOU...um..ah...yes..heh...intersting...


How do you know I'm not already a member??...

1. Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended - and Y?

no, not really.

2. Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?

this question contains three false statements. first, not all people get along at paisley park. i have personally witnessed hostile altercations between fans at paisley park on more than one occasion. second, there are other places in the world where people of all backgrounds get along. third, those gathered for the celebration were not ‘of all backgrounds’, in fact they were demographically similar in that they were all: 1) devoted fans of prince, 2) economically able to afford, travel, membership and pass costs, 3) mostly from north america.

3. In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?

borders are abstract and physical demarcations which separate and help to define ideas and things. they are not 'erased' when the funk drops, they simply become less important for the duration of the funk.

4. The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether - but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?

first, define ‘truth’. then tell me why it would be desirable for all people to ‘worship in truth together’. in my opinion, diversity is good. to answer your question, no we will never be able to worship together because this world is filled with many people who adhere to different religious beliefs. no one religious belief is any more valid than another.

5 Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”? Just how big is r human family?

my personal experience has taught me that families who pray together do not always stay together. my ‘human family’ includes all human beings.

6. 2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?

prince DID close the celebration in prayer and that is one part of the reason why i left early. generally, however, when i am the guest of those who adhere to a religious belief which differs from my own beliefs i respectfully remain silent when others say ‘amen’.

7. What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one?

the wording of this question is flawed. most individual people simply pray according to their own belief system, they do not ‘pray 2 different gods’. furthermore, to reverse your question: what point is there to pray to one god if there are many individuals with differing beliefs regarding god? what point is there to pray to one god if there are many individuals who do not even believe that god exists? there are as many interpretations of the concept of ‘god’ as there are individuals in the world. i am able to live harmoniously with individuals who have different religious beliefs from my own because i respect their right and their freedom to believe and to worship as they choose. the only time i have a problem with another person’s religious viewpoint, even when it is different from my own viewpoint, is when that person attempts to force their belief system on me.

8. We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?

it is talk of ‘separation of church and state’ we hear about, not ‘separation of god and state’. the separation of the church (religion) and the state (government) is a fundamental element of the american nation. this country, america, was founded by people who understood that there are many religions. the founders of this country realized that individuals should have the right to freely worship according to their own belief systems. for example, the recent ninth circuit court of appeals decision (determining the wording of the american pledge of allegiance to be unconstitutional due to the inclusion of the phrase “under god”) was made in order to PROTECT an individual’s freedom and legal right to worship in his or her own way. there are many citizens of america who do not believe in 'god'. separation of the church and the state is a sign of an enlightened society and is therefore a sign of PROGRESS.

9. Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?

utopia does not exist. in my opinion utopia is a state of mind. furthermore, one person's utopia' can be another person's hell.

10. How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?

through education of society’s individual members. development of a society-wide understanding of the differences and similarities between different cultures and different nations can help promote respect and understanding, which help to eliminate fear of those who are different.

11. 7 days of music, peace, and love - and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?

this question is flawed. yes the celebration lasted for 7 days but it had moments of non-peace and non-love between those who attended it. there were those who fought with others over placement in line, seating, ill-behaved children, etc. in addition, i found the world at paisley park to be far less ‘reality based’ than any place i’ve been for a while. for example, in my opinion the notion of a ‘theocratic order' (as preached to the crowd by prince during one show) does not ring true in an american society wherein single mothers are commonplace (matriarchal society). i prefer the world outside of paisley park these days, as it seems more real to me.

12. What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?

this question is flawed because it seeks to play a pointless semantic ‘word game’ of the sort which the NPGMC seems to enjoy. in the dictionary, harmony is literally defined as ‘agreement’. however, in my opinion, the word ‘harmony’ implies a complementary relationship between different elements, while ‘agreement’ implies concurrence, or conformity between similar elements.

now, it’s my turn.
when i joined the NPGMC i paid for access to prince’s music. i am interested in receiving updates about prince's music. yet, the questions posed by this questionnaire don't tell me anything about the music. these questions are, in fact, religious in nature. and not only are they religious in nature, they are oriented only toward the christian religion. hello? many members of the NPGMC do not even believe in any kind of christian god. NPGMC members have been asking for updates about NPGMC product for months now, and instead you give us this???!!! that’s madness.
i respect prince as a person and as an artist. i respect his freedom to choose any religious path he prefers, even if that is the path of the jehovah's witnesses, which i personally consider to be a cult. even so and with all due respect, i would prefer not to receive any more emails containing religious content from the NPGMC. thank you.
[This message was edited Thu Jul 11 16:37:46 PDT 2002 by XxAxX]
[This message was edited Fri Jul 12 11:29:08 PDT 2002 by XxAxX]

XxAxX said:

wow...i agree 99% with what you had to say..I have family and friends who are JWs...In my opinion, they are not a cult. I think your opinion might have been better heard (from the NPGMC camp and possibly Prince) without the name calling...you had me till then bub...

what is ur definition of the word "cult"?

SpcMs said:

Wonderful, awsome letter. Honest and intelligent.

XxAxX said:

Man, I hope they're reading these! Excellent.

Why are "non-believers" or whatever "they" call us (almost) always infinitely more rational, polite, respectful, courteous and succinct when they write?

XxAxX said:

Wow XxaxX! Great response!

since double posting our answers seems to be the trend...

here it goes again!

1.Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended — and Y?

I did get a case of the blues. 90% of that stems from saying goodbye to people. I met many GREAT people once again this year. I also bonded extra tightly with a small group of these people and shared nearly the entire experience with this group. It was hard to have them leave and know that we may not see each other again for many months.

2.Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?

I do think people of all backgrounds can get along in many places. The key is to find a common denominator. For the Celebration, we had the link of Prince. All people were there to see him, so we all had a common point where connections could be started from. With that being said, I know of a number of people who did have problems with the celebration, so it wasn't a perfect world. I feel bad for those who had a negative experience. I didn't mainly because I chose to focus on the good and feel the love washing over me from all the new beautiful people I met.

3.In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?

Borders are imagined lines, drawn by people to seperate people. Borders cause tension, struggle and war. Borders are not 'real.' Music (funk) is real. It touches a primal spot in the human spirit and sets that in motion. In the environment of the celebration, the huge majority of people enjoyed the music (funk) and were able to forget about the man-made divisions which we accept as part of our daily reality.

4.The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether — but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?

I partied HARD at the Celebration. I danced till I could dance no more, I yelled for joy, I wept in happiness, and I hugged and loved those around me constantly. This is my truth, this is my way to worship. The point of life to me is to enjoy each moment as much as possible, love those around me as much as possible and help, not hurt, others. I did this at the celebration and "worshipped" in truth.
Notice, please, I made no reference to a 'God'. I do believe in a higher spirit and energy that sustains life. By day 7, this force was keeping me on my feet and dancing. As I believe it was doing for the rest of those present. With this as my truth I feel we all did, in a way, worship together.

5.Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”? Just how big is r human family?

Our human family is as big as we let it be. It grows each time a person decides to keep an open mind and love his/her neighbor, regardless of their differences.
I formed a family at the celebration. Our beliefs went from intensely spiritual christian to intensely rationale atheist. Some ate meat, some didn't. Some smoked, some didn't. The key was, we all respected each other enough that we saw past these differences to the beautiful souls inside and loved and accepted each other completely. With this respect and acceptance as our prayers, we were one tight group of love.

6.2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?

I honestly would've left the room, and did when moments got close to prayer. Out of respect for those who believed in that form of prayer, I thought that was for the best. Out of respect for me and my enjoyment of the nite, I chose to leave for that portion. If leaving isn't an option, I would bow my head out of respect, but not say 'amen.'
I believe spirituality is most true and powerful when explored and celebrated in a person's soul on their own. As the numbers grow it becomes more of an act and show than a true connection to the spiritual side, in my opinion.

I respect Prince's need to express himself about his convictions. I just wish he'd save it for a more appropriate time. There were "musician workshops" why not "spiritual workshops" during the day. That way those at the celebration who want to explore these religious issues could do so. Let the concerts continue to be an all inclusive celebration. If the song has spirtual tones, GREAT! Just please, let the music speak for itself at the shows on the deeper issues. Keep the speeches lighthearted and open.

7.What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one?

This type of pointed question is what bothers me about the RELIGION Prince is now speaking of. As a long term Prince fan, and a non-christian, I'm accustomed to references to God. In the past, though, it seemed more openminded and more spiritual. I still connected with the references and the music because I could apply it to my own thoughts about a higher power.
This question follows suit with the whole idea of the "We all need to agree on God's name" comments made during nites 6 and 7 by Prince. Spirituality is beautiful, enriching and life expanding. Religion is dangerous, inhibiting and limiting. It's a fine line. All too often once spiritual people lose sight of this and lose themselves in the dogma of a religion.

8.We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?

If you believe in a higher power, this belief will always at some level guide you at all times, regardless of your environment. If you do not this is a moot point. The beauty of the IDEA of freedom in America is that both types of people can exist side by side without forcing their beliefs on the other.

9.Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?

Utopia is a subjective thing. Attempts to create Utopia fail because MANkind does it with a strict plan. All those who don't fit this plan don't belong. To be part of the Utopia you must change and become something you are not, which already has ruined the idea of Utopia.

10.How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?

Through Agape, unconditional love. I mean true love. Not, "I love them (out of pity) even though they don't believe as I do and will face damnation if they don't change their ways."
Through truly embracing diversity in race, appearance, sexuality and spirituality. Through not giving into the human tendency to feel your choices, values and beliefs are superior to another's.

11.7 days of music, peace, and love — and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?

Unfortunately, too real for most of us. I for one am not indepenently wealthy, and have to work long and hard to be able to afford a week as uplifting as the celebration. Untill the veil of money falls, and people realize what a farce it is, we have no choice but to be in that "real world" for most of the year.
The key is to not get mired down and find ways to still live and love in spite of working your butt off day in and day out to provide for the basic needs of life.

12.What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?
Agreement generally occurs issue by issue. Harmony occurs in totality.

Arcamar said:

Awomen!

i apologize for being judgemental, Skletonkee. i am working hard to correct that arrogant part of me.

the reason i feel that the JWs are a cult are as follows:

1. the concept of 'dis-fellowshipping' is a man-made concept, and directly contradicts the teachings of the bible. a divinely inspired religion does not condone such cruelty to its needful members. sometimes, when we are 'sinning', that is when we need god's love and the su0pport of our loved ones the most. in my opinion, the JWS use this threat to control their members.

2. the notion that 144,000 people ONLY will get to heaven. huh? what? this is also clearly a man-made concept and also directly contradicts the teachings of the bible.

3. the 'report cards' JWs must use to keep track of how much time they 'witness' to others. in my opinion, this is another man-made concept and serves mainly to increase the numbers of members and therefore the finances of the JWS

4. the JW rejection of other religions, and their insistence that there is only one 'truth'. in my opinion, god has many faces and it does not limit itself to one. why would an all powerful force ever be so narrowminded?

5. JW rejection of homosexuality. god does not judge a soul by its physiognomy, but rather by its light. wherever real love is created between two people, no matter their race, creed or gender, god exists.

6. the insistence that god's name, 'jehovah' is important. does it truly matter? is god deaf to us if we call it YAHWEH? would it ignore a sincere prayer simply because the one praying did not call it 'jehovah'? imo, god has many faces and would never limit itself to a single name

there are more reasons. i've studied a bit on the mechanics of cults and have read what has been written by those who have 'escaped' from cults. their experiences seem very similar to what i have read by those who have 'escaped' from the JW fold.

still, i'm sorry to have offended you and will try not to use the word 'cult' again.

SkletonKee said:

Hi XxAxX!

DCM here,

Ilove your list!!

Keep em comin!!

(Im still working on # 3 myself!

DCM

XxAxX said:

XxAxX, while I understand your viewpoints, I can't say that the things you've mentioned are characteristics of a cult...


I think you make some good, valid points concerning disfellowship of ANY religion...I'm not sure, but I don't think the JWs are the only religion which follows such practices...and actually, many individual churches require you to go thru a "screening process" of sorts before they will consider you to be an official member...you can still attend the church, services, seminars and workshops, and are welcomed and encouraged to with open arms...but to want to join and be recognized as an official member of a church often requires more...not sure how the JWs do it, of course...but many individual churches of other faiths and religions do have their own processes when it concerns being an official member.


It is, though, in the Bible..so it's not simply a "man-made" concept...the specific figure of 144,000 is mentioned in the context of how many will be in heaven at the end of the world...can't quote exactly, but I'm sure someone around here will..lol...it's not a figure made up or pulled out of someone's ass or something..lol...it does have biblical origins...now, people can debate what the significance of that 144,000 figure mentioned in the bible means...but it is definitely not merely man-made.


I remember this being talked about on another thread...I had been hearing about these "report cards" from non-members for awhile, and it seemed a strange practice...so I wanted to hear a view from a JW member that gave an explaination about how they're used, and why...and see if it made sense or if it seemed like rehearsed propaganda...well, from what I heard several JWs say on this site about the "report cards", it was used for the purposes of encouragement, to let members around the world see what their "brothers" and "sisters" are doing in their spreading of the "word" and "truth"...the data was comprised either at the end of each quarter or at the end of the year...and these members said it was all voluntary...I'm sure it was stressed as being important..but stressed is not the same as forced...


That's my opinion, too...but just because a religion's views on the subject differ from mine doesn't qualify it as a cult...


Views on sexuality and homosexuality are not a qualifying characteristic of a cult, either...simply a differencing of opinion...it's important for it to be seen that way, or else you give the JWs--and all other religions and organizations--free reign to label those who feel as you and I do as only being part of some "cult"...


Basically, the JWs believe that the Bible is to be followed precisely, and that includes what name we give to God...are they right or wrong??...I dunno...hardly matters...but their belief in the precise following of the Bible does not by default put them into the catagory of "cult"...

Like I said...you mention some good and valid points about why you disagree with the JW doctrine and practices...but you didn't mention one good reason why they should be considered a cult...just my .02...




....well, my .02 edited anyway....
[This message was edited Fri Jul 12 10:05:18 PDT 2002 by wellbeyond]

.
[This message was edited Fri Jul 12 10:07:15 PDT 2002 by XxAxX]

XxAxX said:

LoL..I know, I know...it's easier around here to not actually talk about and discuss things when people don't agree with us...far easier to just state our opinions and accept the pats on the back from those who think like we do...lol...

WB i have an opinion which differs from yours. i have facts to support my opinion. but, i dislike your 'debate' style. you spend a lot of time arguing 'opinions' so let's remain friends and agree to disagree

XxAxX said:

Hmmm...interesting...because throughout my response, I kept saying you made some good and valid points, and that I agreed with your views in a lot of places...my only disagreement was in thinking those views should constitute seeing the JWs as a "cult"...if that's all it takes to bother you--and if you think my post warrants a "whatever, WB lol"--then not sure what to tell ya...




...edit's build character...
[This message was edited Fri Jul 12 11:16:38 PDT 2002 by wellbeyond]

wellbeyond said:

Hi WB,

This link may help you:

http://www.jwfiles.com/cult.htm

or maybe not!

DCM

no WB i'm not bothered.
and i don't mean to belittle you. i did delete the 'whatever' statement not long after i posted it.

i said what i did about your debate style because i read your recent arguments on the topic of consumer rights and the NPGMC's business style. you and i had a similar discussion a few months back. in both instances you tenaciously hold to and defend an opinion which contradicts consumer law.

and yes, i know you enjoy debate, but i dislike argument for the sake of mere argument.

i still maintain that the JWs are a cult. the mention of 144,000 heaven-eligible individuals in the bible is contradicted elsewhere in that book. heaven is not limited to a 144,000 capacity seating. i would bet that the 144,000 is a figure mentioned by one of the many individuals who contributed to the bible. therefore, man-made.

i have other reasons and facts based upon research for defining the JWs as i do. but, i do not have time to get into a lengthy explanation.

no offense, WB

Actually, XxAxX, the views I held didn't contradict consumer law...I simply took the stance that what was being voiced did not prove that law had been broken...definitely a difference...

And while I do enjoy debate--stimulates the mind like nothing else, strengthens and challenges our views, forcing us to see the holes in our theories and philosophies and either patch them up adequately or think about finding another viewpoint with less holes--I rarely jump into debate just for the sake of arguing with someone...if I don't agree, I voice it, and why

At any rate...you are more than free to maintain that the JWs are a cult...I'm not convinced that they AREN'T..lol...but...if you also voice on a message board why they should be considered a cult, be prepared for somebody to question the logic of why those reasons are valid...even if that "somebody" is me...

And no offense taken...