I just read it at the U Tell U section at NPGMC...

Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended — and Y?

Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?

In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?

The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether — but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?

Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”? Just how big is r human family?

2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?

What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one?

We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?

Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?

How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?

7 days of music, peace, and love — and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?

What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?


Now, I did want to attend Celebration 2003 (if there's one), but now I'm truly scared... will I have to say a prayer??? will anybody who believes in more than one god must/should turn their belief to just one god???

and separation between God and state (what state) let me answer - the state we ALL live in, not just those who believe in one God)

what do you think?

Here are my replies. Please share yours as well!

1. Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended — and Y?

Indeed, I did acquire a case of post-Celebration blues and it was anything but small. In fact, as a member of prince.org, I posted in great length about the feeling. More than anything, my post-Celebration blues stemmed from the fact that I had met so many wonderful people and had experienced such wonderful music. I was openly and warmly accepted and loved by people who days before were strangers. My post-Celebration blues are also symptomatic of the fact that I will be headed 1,700 miles from home in less than a month as I enter graduate school for statistics. That said, the Celebration for me symbolized much more than a week of concerts. It symbolized a celebration of youth, closeness and togetherness that I only hope to continue to exude in graduate school.

2. Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?

It is misrepresentative to suggest that those present during the Celebration represent the backgrounds and interests of the world as a whole. The Celebration fee of $250, the location within the United States and the requirement of Internet access precludes the inclusion of a large constituency of people. Regardless, the fact that Prince has in large part promoted racial and socioeconomic unity and that those in attendance were there to see Prince indicates that most of them agree with his messages. That being said, most of the people present came to the Celebration with open minds and hearts.

3. In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?

Borders are phenomena that separate two distinct bodies, whether they be nations, social classes, or other classifications. In essence, their existence indicates the presence of differences. Borders are erased “when the funk drops” simply because the essence of borders lies in their separatist nature, but the music enjoyed at the Celebration was a shared experience.

4. The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether — but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?

This depends on how “we” is defined. Given that fans of Prince are a diverse crowd, there are a multitude of differing backgrounds, belief systems, and ages represented. Given that everyone is on a unique spiritual path, distinguished by past experiences, present circumstances and future hopes, it is unlikely that all fans of Prince are in the same boat spiritually. Furthermore, the message of Christ clamored for INCLUSION rather than EXCLUSION and all those who are not of similar belief system to the one represented in the worship WILL FEEL EXCLUDED. Regardless, Prince may proceed as he feels is right to him, although organizing a time of worship, although it would not alienate me as a Christian, would inherently alienate those of different practices.

5. Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”? Just how big is r human family?

I like to liken the dual nature of spirituality- individual and collective, to the dual role of cells in the body. Cells are individuals that carry on a number of processes within the realm of the cell. However, cells also serve a greater purpose in the context of the body. Similarly, people are each unique individuals with unique relationships with God. However, people also usually belong to a certain group or “family.” Families who pray together are unified both spiritually and emotionally. God’s ideal “church” includes billions of people coming together as one family. As far as the term “family,” it may in such a manner be extended from the biological standpoint. That being said, the human family is populated by every living human being.

6. 2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?

Personally, I would have felt perfectly comfortable with a prayer, being a Christian myself. I would have prayed for the safety and well-being of all those present.

7. What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one?

While this is debatable to many who hold polytheistic beliefs, I believe that there is only one God. One of the topics emphasized during the Celebration was the name of God. However, even Jesus referred to God with different names, so the semantics of determining His name are irrelevant to me. As many said, God is inside all of us. It is my belief that God has left his imprint in every living creature and has blessed us all with a unique set of gifts and abilities.

8. We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?

While I am happy to admit to being a Christian, I understand the need for everyone to feel included. Our nation was founded upon the principles of religious freedom by individuals who fled religious persecution. Regardless, our nation’s history indicates that the sentiment of freedom has not been shared by all residents (Salem witch trials, the equating of atheists and communists in the 1950s, etc.). Our country has never been united under a single God and although personally I would love it to be that way, the fact is that we must not deny the God-given right that every individual has to free will. Just as Adam and Eve were granted free will to eat the fruits of the Tree of Knowledge, we must comply with his wishes and grant citizens free will to religion, thus deeming separation of church and state necessary. Forcing citizens to revere Christianity as their own religion would be a REGRESSION and would indicate that we have not learned anything from the reprehensible subjection of the Natives of Mexico and the rest of Latin America to the Catholicism imposed upon them by the Spanish conquistadors. FORCING INDIVIDUALS TO CONFORM TO ANY SET OF BELIEFS IS AGAINST GOD’S WILL. As a Christian (follower of Christ), I am called to lead by EXAMPLE, not by force. Certainly, I may be used as an instrument of God to teach (by example) the benefits of a Christian lifestyle. However, intervening with God’s plan by imposing a set of beliefs on someone is only a DETERRENT. The seeds of Christianity are watered by the Gospel, but planted by example.

9. Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?

All of mankind’s attempts at creating Utopia have been exclusionary by nature and consequently contradict the very nature of a Utopian state. In a truly Utopian place (Heaven), NO ONE is excluded and ALL are CONCURRENTLY following the same path. The only successful attempt to create Utopia will be manifested by the Second Coming of Christ, and it is written that no man knows the hour of his arrival. Subsequently, I believe that the focus of the desire to improve the world inherent in attempts to create Utopia should be directed to good works, such as non-evangelical mission trips whereby the example of Christ is made apparent.

10. How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?

Our society can eliminate Xenophobia by educating its people to not hold fear. Hatred and fear are learned characteristics and can be traced to the family model. Moreover, the plight of xenophobia is fortified by the very nature of our society. The United States was founded upon the principles of individualism, which quickly morphed into capitalism and other types of stratification. In essence, the various strata have been defined by those in power, and unwilling to relinquish this power, legislature was enacted to further stratify society by restricting women, blacks, Native Americans and immigrants. The stratification also yielded a lack of contact between various social groups. This lack of contact only led to a sense of familiarity and transformed into fear. Seeking the things we have in common rather than the things that separate us will result in a greater sense of familiarity and community. A revolution of the very principles upon which American society is founded is necessary to eliminate xenophobia, but it is a course of action that all Christians should deem necessary. Christ gave numerous examples of the holiness of sacrifice and as we are to emulate him, we should make efforts to sacrifice our own advantages in order to bridge the gap between the desperate and the comfortable.

11. 7 days of music, peace, and love — and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?

The world is VERY real. Pain, suffering, and woe are ubiquitous in society. However, what is deemed as the “real world” could benefit greatly from the sense of community and togetherness that was omnipresent at the Celebration.

12. What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?

The difference between agreement and harmony lies in the fact that agreement implies sharing a similar viewpoint whereas harmony implies exuding a sense of togetherness and community. It IS possible for harmony to exist between groups of people who disagree. A Muslim and a Shinto are not going to fully agree about spirituality, but they still are capable of coming together to do good, by building homes for the homeless, for example. In my opinion, God should be the one concerned with achieving agreement among his people, whereas people should focus on achieving harmony, coming together for the common good of everyone.

?
[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 1:51:44 PST 2003 by IstenSzek]

agarze said:

***

SensualMelody said:

agarze, If you attended this year and enjoyed yourself, there is no reason to think that next year will be
different.
Giving feedback to these questions may well help determine
the extent that the next celebration will focus on
the things that make you uncomfortable. Let your
voice be heard! Reply to the NPGMusic club on those questions that important to you.

-

IstenSzek said:

That IS the most important question!

Maybe they are trying to create more of a "community" at the musicclub? I'm reallly interested to see what they do with this input...

I lost interest in what Prince thinks about life a long time ago. I have long thought the man is a fruit cake (as are most geniuses). I just wanna have his music on some kind of medium which allows playback at any chosen moment.

But the more his music suffers due to his beliefs, the more I dont give a shit. And right now, I really couldnt care less what the NPGMC or Prince himself wants to know about me. And I certainly have no ambition to share my beliefs with them.

The sooner Prince quits with the propaganda the better. If he doesnt, then the time will come when I wont bother with the music either.

I dont mind religeous undertones to his comments or songs, but blatant preaching goes against everything I hold true: We must all find out FOR OURSELVES!

So, NPGMC, stick your questions where the sun dont shine and start acting like a music club and not a bible club. Because I didnt pay to be preached at. I paid for the music. Prince got to where he is today because of the music, so my suggestion to him is be true to the people that put you there. If you want to preach and become some kind of new age pastor then come out and say as much. Do not attempt to quietly convert your musical following into something else - because it will ostrasise you even more.

I dont know how many of you are giving this music club its last chance. But if you are, then like me you are using year 2 as the straw that will either break or make the camels back. So far, I have to say that year three will not be involving me. Not unless the music picks up and the preaching takes more of a back seat.

JohnnyBoyRebel-

I think A LOT of people are in the same place you are!

One question for you:
Did you send this input to the NPGMC?

If not, please do and others who agree with you should follow suit.

This celebration was weird. One one hand, I thought they truly responded to input from people to make the experience good. On the other hand, P's style of preaching went from something I could stomach to something that drove me out of the room. My point? I half think he is LISTENING these days, so if you haven't PLEASE send your response to the club.
(well, maybe reword it in a few spots to make it more 'diplomatic')

I hear what you are saying, though!

SensualMelody said:

SensualMelody - on one hand I do agree that we should simply let our opinions be heard at NPGMC... but first of all, I don't really think they will post anything negative and secondly it's kinda difficult to discuss anything with people who apparently do not want a discussion, as they prefer preaching instead. And while it's true that he asks (instead of saying plainly how it is), the tone and the message in these questions set certain beliefs which I'm pretty sure are not shared by everybody.

Moonbeam, I read your responses to the questions. I agree with your thinking. You kept mentioning being more of an example of Christ. It made me think more about being a Christian, which I am (but not in detail sure of what it means), and the whole purpose of Christianity. I think I'll be more of an example of Christ to others from now on. Thank you.

and to be perfectly honest I'm also bitter because I haven't received by ONA CD yet although I joined the club in January (six months ago!!!)... and all they tell me is that they need MORE TIME...

and I am pissed off that instead of the music I get to hear the preaching... that's not what I paid for!!!

6868 said:

You are most welcome! Thanks for the compliment!

endorphin74 said:

When was that? I didn't read any reports of preaching this year.

Anyway, speaking of straws breaking camels backs, I'm coming at it from the other angle. I haven't rejoined after year 1 but I will if they give me a good reason to.

This isn't it! This veiled attempt at discussing religious nonsense is about the only thing to have come from the site in months!

Saxjedi said:

To get you up to speed, I borrowed some words from ROVERLO from a thread in the celebration forum:


I thought about these two nites, A LOT. I've been to many a show in my days, and the preaching was at most a momentary distraction. These two nites it actually drove me out of the concert. As the crowd was seated in their neat rows being instructed to sit and stand and eventually the lights were raised for everyone to sing along I felt that I was at a revival. Before, I could at least deal with the preachng cos it felt spiritual. This time, it felt RELIGIOUS, pointed and with a definite intention of making the point that ONLY his way was right.

Had Prince actually said "the name of god is Jehovah and we all must agree" after his ramblings, I may have left and never come back.

I dunno, I'll stop now and save this for my reply to the NPGMC...

WHAT HE SAID!!!

JonnyBoyRebel said:

Moonbeam,

Thanks for sharing your answers. You appear to be a very warm person, even if your avatar confuses me with who you really are.

Moonbeam said:

Nice reply, Moonbeam. Here's mine (posted elsewhere):

Did u get a small case of “post-Celebration blues” when the event ended — and Y?

No. I didn't go. Sounded like fun though.

Y do people of all backgrounds get along at Paisley Park, and not elsewhere?

They don't always. I've never been 2 Paisley Park, but I've seen a few disagreements at concerts. Generally, Prince's music has always been all inclusive, (black, white, straight, gay, male, female, etc.) much like his bands, and has a message suggesting togetherness. positivity, peace and acceptance. This tends to attract a more docile and agreeable crowd, united in their appreciation of Prince's art. I hope all of this ONE GOD thinking doesn't lose that idea of tolerance, inclusiveness and love for one another.

In actuality, what r BORDERS? And y r they erased when the Funk drops?

Borders can be demonstrated by the walls and gates at Paisley Park, ticket turnstiles, bodyguards and exclusive membership rights. Also, by the insulation of individuals from the public or from society in general. Those are good examples. They are designed to protect and insulate, usually, but not always, in the interests of safety, comfort and privacy. They don't ALWAYS drop.

The Celebration proved that people from various backgrounds can party 2gether — but will we ever b able 2 worship in Truth 2gether?

No, not all of us. God, and more accurately, religion are subjects and ideas best left to an individual's interpretation and judgment. These perceptions tend to vary greatly, especially when dealing with an abstract concept such as God. As long as we remain more interested in convincing OTHERS of how right WE are, and subsequently how wrong and misguided those are that disagree, we will never reach this goal collectively. Tolerance and understanding come first.

Many say that one’s own relationship with God is a “personal thing.” That being said, how would that work next 2: “A family that prays 2gether stays 2gether.”?

Just how big is r human family? It's pretty big, encompassing many different rationales and traditions of theological thought, study, HISTORY and spiritual concepts. It's incredibly diverse, which is at once its greatest strength and most vulnerable weakness. I've seen many families that prey together, stay together and shouldn't. "Heaven's Gate" was one. The Manson family is another, admittedly extreme, example. They believed that God spoke to them through Beatles' records, and they were convinced THEY WERE RIGHT.

2 say “Amen” at the end of a prayer simply means that u agree with the prayer. If someone had closed the Celebration in prayer, would u have bowed ur head and simply made up ur own prayer in ur mind?

Probably. I DO believe in God, and usually, out of respect for the thoughts and beliefs of others, I simply remain silent. Why sould I have a problem with a prayer?


What point is there 2 pray 2 different Gods if there is only one? Here is the main problem.

Says who? There are other religions that teach multiple deities, and others that teach us to worship the earth. I would never be so bold or pompous as to suggest that I knew all of the answers to questions that have been asked throughout time or that all of these folks are WRONG, and I caution those that would to kindly watch their step and keep their minds open, less the learning process cease. Personally, I find it rude. If you follow this dialogue to its most common conclusion, you tend to get a big, fat war. Look around.

We hear talk of separation of God and State… State of What? Mind? R the efforts made by certain members of society 2 remove God from State a sign of progress or regress?

This is actually pretty simple. History has taught us that when the Church and the Government are one and the same, BIG problems ensue. Our country was founded, in part, to escape this kind of indoctrination and allow people to choose freely for themselves and find their own way and worship how they please. A government sanctioned religion does no good and that's what that separation means. What if we decided to institute Catholicism as the "official" religion, and made laws in accordance with their theology? Where would that leave the Jews, the Hindus...? Indeed, where would that leave YOU? I doubt that your personal journey and the discoveries you've made along the way would have been nearly as rewarding. Prince arrived where he is spiritually at least in part thanks to this freedom.

Y have all of mankind’s attempts at creating UTOPIA 4 itself failed so far?

We are flawed. Our reality can never catch up to imagination. The best artists in history have attested to NEVER reaching their true visions. That's what keeps us going: the concept that we can always improve. We are not prefect, yet the idea exists in our minds. Also, many of us have a natural tendency to call people that don't agree with us or see things our way "wrong".

How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?

Continued cross pollination and "mixing" of the races, with less emphasis on keeping something "pure" (whatever that means), will ultimately eliminate race (or "foreigners) as an issue. We are all "foreigners". It's the context that defines. "XENOPHOBIA", to some degree I think, is natural. That's why the definition contains the words "an IRRATIONAL fear..."

7 days of music, peace, and love — and then back 2 the “real world”… How real is the “real world”?

Less and less real all the time, especially when experienced through TV and, to a greater extent, the internet. There is almost no way to know what's true anymore unless you actually see it with your own eyes. Digital manipulation and the biased corporate ownership of our media outlets leaves us barely able to believe our own eyes and ears. Want "real"? Watch a street musician play a song or an artist paint a picture. Listen to someone speak and look them eye. Pet an animal. Write something.

What is the difference between AGREEMENT and HARMONY?

Very little as I see it, even if the agreement is to disagree.

Moonbeam said:

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WORDING THAT SO EFFECTIVELY! I absolutely agree!

Isn't Moonbeam good!!

Herbthe4...I enjoyed your replies as well, sock it to 'em!!

So, who writes these stupid ass questions anyways? Do they come from Prince himself? Because number 8 pisses me off.

Edit: I meant number 7, but come to think of it, I don't like 8 either...
[This message was edited Thu Jul 11 8:23:59 PDT 2002 by BattierBeMyDaddy]

JonnyBoyRebel said:

Fruit cakes being a genius? is that a compliment or an insult? Sorta like saying "you pillow-biting, ass munching homos have such great fashion sense!"

I'm just giving u a hard time.

Believe me, at this point I cant wait till Feb 2003, so I can have the gratification of refusing to join for NPGMC pt 3. I plan on sending them a detailed letter explaining why.

I used to think Prince's take on religion was his own unique blend, nows he's gone for some canned faith.

Here's what eye sent...

1. It was beautiful 2 c so many people of so many backgrounds, beliefs, etc. get 2gether 2 share their love for Prince and his music. It was cool how we were all there based on the fact that we all dig Prince and his music, but that didn't limit our discussions, and many of us talked 2 people we probably wouldn't have had the opportunity 2, otherwise. It was also cool 2 hang with a bunch of people who feel really passionate about the same thing.

2. Because if they break the rules, security will kick them out

3. Borders are erected both physically and mentally by facists and Republicans in an attempt 2 draw more or less importance 2 something. Silly people living in their silly worlds. Borders are also erected 2 stop stupid people from going where they shouldn't go. But we're not all stupid r we?

4. We will never b able 2 worship in truth 2gether because everyone has a different idea of THE TRUTH. When 1 stops believing what's in their heart and starts believing what other people 4ce on them, CHAOS AND DISORDER is sure 2 arise. Prince & the NPGMC are no strangers to believing in ourselves and not letting someone 4ce us 2 all go down the same path, unless that is what we choose. Life is death without CHOICE.

5. The human family is as big as our hearts tell us it is, not as dictated to us by a "leader."

6. I would have made up my own prayer. I think it's great that people feel strongly in what they believe in, but their beliefs belong to them and nobody else. It's great when people all feel the same way about something, but who should be judged 4 dancing 2 the beat of our own drum? If the GOD I believe in exists, HE knows what's in my heart, whether I show up at a church, or am stuck in traffic. GOD IS ALIVE and is inside all of us. I can speak to GOD through my heart. I don't need to donate to a church or temple, and I don't need some1 2 tell me they have more salvation than me because they live their life "better" than I live mine. If so, DEFINE the word "Better." It's all a state of mind, isn't it?

7. Religious beliefs aside, show us all SCIENTIFIC PROOF of God, right here, right now. Unless someone currently living was there to witness what is written in the BIBLE or any other religious book, it doesn't make any sense to treat is as anything more or less than speculation and interpretation at best. Remeber the exercize in 2nd grade where u line up all the people in a row and the teacher tells the first person in line 2 repeat "2 the best of their knowledge" a really long sentence, and by the time the story gets 2 the end of the line, the story has become completely different? Well, what's the difference here?

8. Progress. If u want 2 worship or not worship, that's cool by me. I am not interested in listening to someone trying to 4ce their beliefs on me. If I think a topic sounds interesting enough to research, I will and then I will draw my OWN conclusions.

9. Because we have a bunch of people running around this earth trying to tell every1 else that they are right and every1 else is wrong. If people were allowed to do their own thing, tensions would decrease. They may not cease, but they would certainly decline.

10. Teach the folks of the world that we are all HUMAN. Our race, sexuality, belief system, place of birth, etc. was chosen for us and we have no control over it. There4, there is no logical reason to judge some1 for something they had nothing to do with and cannot change.

11. The "real" world is depressing. It's full of closed-minded people, egos, conflict and sadness. It's very cool when u can find the "ENLIGHTENED" 1s. We are hiding out until XENOPHOBIA ceases and then we will show ourselves.

12. Agreement is the ACTION. Harmony is the REACTION.


-clubby

yes, i know... i wasn't at the celly this year.. but i went last year, so i have the vibe down.

Clubkid said:

I am very glad that you sent that to them... there is very little doubt that your name will be put on a list of heretics who should be summarily burned, but I am still glad that you sent them a view other than some fawning fan letter.

Bravo!

Tom said:

Agreed. VERY refreshing to read the thoughts of someone who adheres strongly to their beliefs yet is open minded enough to express themselves so eloquently and clearly. If I saw and read more stuff like this, I'd be much more open minded about religion.

I think it's time we start the "Prince is a fucking idiot" thread.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

I can head that up... if you are not interested in starting it...

:LOL:

IceNine said:

I'll do it!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Bravo!!!

I will gladly post a reply or twenty to that topic!

How can r society eliminate XENOPHOBIA?



If we stop thinking we should pray to one and the same
God

love,

winterman said:

You are damned right! This religious bigotry causes a TON of problems...

Moonbeam said:

Took the words right out of my mouth!
Well said.