alandail said:

have you ever bought a $2 fundraising candy bar from a kid? technically, you could go down to walgreens and get the same candy bar for 69 cents, but the point is, you're giving to charity. the candy bar is just an added bonus. that's how i see the prince tracks. the point is for everyone who belongs to the club to give a measley 77 cents (at the VERY least) - and for that, he's made a track or two available with, yes, the limited playback resources that the club has always had. but the point isn't the product this time around. the point is they've given club members another resource for contributing.

i'm sure you get my point by now, and i'm sure you still disagree. and that's fine. i agree with you about the general issue re: mac files, but i disagree that this is the time to continue your argument. and that's....okay.

of course apple can license DRM AAC files, its just they choose not 2. its fuck all like kmart vs walmart. MS license thier DRM which is y npgmc.

mac plug it in and it works only works 2 a limited degree, which means u have 2 have 2 choose from a very limited hardware selection, with a more limited software selection than pc users. by limiting the selection u have 2 pay more. a lot more in some cases, or in other cases u just cant do things with a mac at all that u can do with a pc.

im aware ms office runs on a mac as thats 1 of the peices of software we had the most problems with when i worked with them. the hanging and crashing on macs isnt well documented, but it certainly happens. i guess as only 5% of computer users use macs, that xplains y all the problems with macs arent as well known as the pc problems. add mac users unwillingness 2 admit 2 macs problems, the faults with mac hardware and OS arent as widely known. 2 tell the truth, i've had comparitively more problems and hassle using macs than using pcs

getting back on topic, MS allow licensed DRM files which is y they r used. apple wont allow it, thus its not used. if ure not happy with this, complain 2 apple

r u telling us that u've paid 4 the files, but u can't listen 2 them at all, and no1 is prepared 2 help u out by giving u an unproteced copy? u have no access 2 a windows pc that u can use 2 burn the files 2 a cd so u can listen 2 them?

regarding the itunes issue, it's been clarified and xplained, so y go on about it? out of the 99c charged, how much money gets back 2 prince, and how much money will b left 2 go 2 the charity? i'm sure prince is well aware that he can sell a lot more on itunes, but he specifically chooses not 2. even if he offered itunes the track, who is 2 say they will put it on the front page? prince moves in mysterious ways. plenty of other ppl can stick tracks on itunes 2 raise money 4 charity in thier own way, prince preferes 2 use his own methods

what u just said about apple taking 99c a file and passing 70c 2 prince, more than he would make if he sold himself due 2 credit card charges, just doesnt make the slightest bit of sense. how can apple get charged less 4 credit cards, take a cut 2 cover costs and/or profit, and pass it 2 prince, with the admin costs involved? and where xactly do u get the information of these charges? i'd love 2 learn more if u can pass on the relative links. it would b interesting 2 c how much every1 gets out of the share of itunes profits, particularly in light of apple claiming they dont make much/any profit

i still cant c where i said the music was xclusive 2 the club members, so perhaps u quote quote the xact part where i said that, as it appears 2 me u have taken a couple of different lines, put them 2gether and drawn the wrong conclusion.

prince is running a music club, offering xclusive music 2 his fans. the problem is that there is no secure option available 4 him 2 sell his music direct on the mac platform as apple chooses not 2 license its software 4 use by any1 else. putting it on itunes reduces his income 4 the music, and reduces the xclusivity of the material 2 club members

it just appears 2 me that mac owners get very touchy whenever any1 dares 2 question thier beloved computers that they have paid more money 4 than an equivilant pc, and is stuck with limited upgrade options, thus they have 2 satisfy themselves personally that they werent actually screwed over by apples advertising and college and charity targetted promotions.

npgmc r well aware of the mac user issues, but thier official standpoint is similar 2 what i've tried 2 clarify - it's apple that prevent them from offering protected files. u could argue that it's MS fault 4 not providing the similar options in macs media player, but at least MS offer mac versions of software, but apple dont offer the same, xpect 4 itunes as they want 2 sell as many profit making ipods as possible

the bottom line is, if u want 2 do something about it, target apple, tell them some of the points and problems i've raised, and ask them what they r prepared 2 do about resolving them

Again, all that's being said here is that we want to buy and listen to Prince's music.

Se7en said:

the point on princes side is that the music is xclusive 2 his website, and he cant sell secure music direct 2 mac owners at the momement due 2 macs licensing. M$ allows him 2 do it which is y he releases DRM files. he's trying 2 persade fans 2 join his club with the temptation of new music, so he can make more profit from the $25 joining fee. as u don't need 2 b a member 2 purchase trax he is open 2 any1 buying

anyways, about not putting the tracks on ipods, again thats apple putting restrictions on thier software and hardware by refusing 2 allow WMA files which other players allow. i'm sure M$ has purposely refused 2 allow DRM WMA files 2 run on macs 4 some reason 2 do with this

but there is a way around it, if u can get the music files somehow and burn them 2 cd, u can rip them back 2 ure pc and put on ure ipod, so it's not impossible 2 do. pc's with internet and cd burner r so common now, there can't b a huge percantage of fans who cant do this now. i would have thought if mac owners r so tech savvy as 2 purchase a "superior machine" they would know ppl with pcs, or know where they can find an internet cafe 2 download and burn, or quite simply get contacts online where they can get other fans 2 send them a version of the track that they can use - i'm sure a lot of that goes on. the DRM rights arguement is another issue really, i don't think any1 would mind if u legally paid 4 trax that other ppl can legally burn 2 cd and put on mp3 players, and got some1 2 rip and send u a copy that u could make use off - in the member help section on npgmc they pretty much suggest that, if they don't directly state it

the issue isnt so much that the club can do much about it 2 sell protected music in mac format, but more that apple refuse 2 license the technology in a way that M$ does. M$ has built thier success on allowing many ppl 2 share in software technology, whereas apples small computer market share is the result of thier refusal 2 do so. that policy might have struck them lucky with ipods, but they r now finally making the change with thier computers 2 intel and an mac OS that can run on a regular pc - hopefully they will allow windows 2 run on thier hardware, i'm sure someone can provide a work around

so complaining 2 prince isnt going 2 help, u have a better chance complaining 2 apple or microsoft, and hopefully persade MS 2 allow DRM on macs or get apple 2 license 2 other ppl. if enuff ppl complained they would sit up and take notice

i agree with s4dfish about trying 2 argue mac vs pc - its just like talking 2 a brick wall with mac owners. they have less choice of hardware and software and OS and pay more 4 a less upgradeable machine that does less dollar for dollar than a comparable pc, and gives u a load of incompatibility headaches and issues such as discussed here about the WMA files - and after all that they still think thier computer is better! at least im not hearing as many blue screen arguments these days, now that almost 5 years have passed since MS released a more stable OS. pc doesnt always mean MS tho, as well as the widest choice of hardware u have the widest choice of OS, u can even install mac OS on a pc now, and faster than it runs on apple hardware. so that puts most of the OS arguments down the toilet now, and puts an end 2 any1 saying u can do more on a mac than a pc

anyways, i notice that every1 is just moaning and complaining on this thread, rather than asking how they can get the music 2 work

is there any1 who still cant get the music 2 play?

and is there any1 who can help them out? - i'm sure fellow mac users who have solved the problem will b willing 2 help out other mac fans

so complaining 2 prince isnt going 2 help, u have a better chance complaining 2 apple or microsoft, and hopefully persade MS 2 allow DRM on macs or get apple 2 license 2 other ppl. if enuff ppl complained they would sit up and take notice

the club has no choice in selecting a DRM based format 2 sell 2 mac users tho does it? and who's is 2 blame 4 that?

as long as it takes b4 u get 1 of the 1st points across -

prince doesnt want 2 put his music anywhere else, he wants 2 keep it xclusive 2 the club - the whole point of the npg MUSIC club

i still cant c where i said the music was xclusive 2 the club members, so perhaps u quote quote the xact part where i said that, as it appears 2 me u have taken a couple of different lines, put them 2gether and drawn the wrong conclusion.

so getting back 2 another of the 1st points, its apple who is stopping u from being able 2 listen 2 the music.

y should prince give his music 2 itunes just cuz apple wont allow ppl 2 sell music direct themselves? u all know that prince is stubborn, and doesnt care about increased sales via avenues he doesnt like

well as i've said numerous times, the point of the club is 2 offer xclusive music 2 his fans, that they can't get anywhere else

u still seem 2 have a problem comprehending that, judging by ure previous post. u seem 2 confuse making material available xclusive 2 his website, with keeping it xclusive 2 his subscribed members. as u mention, he has his other albums on itunes, so y would he not want 2 put those downloads on itunes either? the answer? look at what i've been trying 2 say 4 the past few days. does that make any sense 2 u now? those r xclusive trax 2 try and bring in new members, but at the same time he isn't stopping non members from purchasing them

the music is also available 2 non members at a slightly higher price, which appears 2 b in line with itunes

the hope is that non members will perhaps check out the downloads and sign up 2 join the club and pay $25

by putting the music on itunes, ppl don't even need 2 visit his site, thus reducing the opportunity 2 sign up new fans at $25 and perhaps get them 2 buy more downloads or mechandise, and some1 else takes a cut of the profits unecesarily if he puts them on itunes

when mac owners make up only 5% of the pc market place, it means that only a relatively small amount of prince fans r potentially mac users. out of about 40,000 ppl signed up 2 the club, thats about 2000 mac users. out of that, im pretty sure a fair precentage, perhaps half, perhaps even more, would have the facilities 2 access a pc and obtain and burn the material that way - such as an office pc, friends pc, internet cafe, etc. and im also sure a reasonable amount of the remaining ppl who cant or dont want 2 obtain the material via another pc can find alternate methods 2 b able 2 listen 2 the music they have legally purchased

taking that in2 consideration it leaves relatively few mac users in the position of not being able 2 listen 2 the downloads

statistically speaking, if u take in2 consideration the amount of pc owners who may not have broadband, cd burners, soundcards, pcs at home (only using at work with no cd burning facilities), or ppl without tech savvy 2 do so, im sure there r far more pc owners who cant listen 2 the music than mac owners

what uve quoted from the club about MS media player does read as "microsoft prevents apple users from listening 2 the music" - it reads 2 me that there is a technical issue that means it wont work - not that MS is trying 2 stop apple users from using it. personally i wouldnt b surprised if they were holding back as i find it hard 2 belive that they cant get it 2 work with the vast resources of ms, but i could understand y they would want 2 stop mac users from using it, in the same way apple dont want 2 license thier technology. the problem is the 2 big boys fighting and arguing over competiting technologies. i would have thought tho that it would likely benefit MS from allowing DRM 2 run on macs in order 2 given them the chance of getting a larger marketshare and making DRM a more wideley accepted standard. perhaps apple being aware of this has something in the OS 2 prevent MS from using DRM 2 try and push thier own system. if apple wanted 2, they could work with MS 2 make DRM work on mac OS, thats if MS also wanted 2. hopefully the pair of them will have the issue resolved 4 the new intel based mac OS

anyway, there r plenty of ways 2 get the music 2 play on ure computer and ipod. ive suggested a few ways, and the tech savvy out there can figure out the rest. with the available options, at least 99.99% of multimedia compatible mac owners should b able 2 play the music, and that seems 2 b the point of the thread. mac owners just want 2 listen 2 the music.

i think were finally seeing 2wards more similar views now. i think we now agree that some of the things that the club or prince does may b debatable whether or not they make sense, ie. using xclusive music 2 get ppl 2 sign up fairweather fans

i think whilst some fans may have 2 break DRM laws 2 listen 2 the music, nevertheless they will do so and thus can listen 2 the music, and as long as the law is an ass and apple and MS have the software/licensing issues frustratingly preventing them from offering music direct and easily 2 fans, npgmc/prince essentially turn a blind eye 2 this or don't care what u need 2 do as long as u can listen 2 it and u've bought it (this assumption based on various things read at the club - not just mac/music, but other topics)

1 other thing, i understand the DRM laws, or the millenium act or whatever it's called applies 2 america, and not the rest of the world, so out of that 5%, perhaps only half r in america, the other half spread across the world. so thats 1000 mac users in america, using the original equation of half of them having pc access (or another way 2 get the files 2 work), thats about 1.25% of mac users in america with the problem - or 500 mac using prince fans. i'm pretty certain the 40,000 figure is true, figures jumpted from low thousands 2 this figure during last year when he toured - there is a way u can do a search on usernames and get the totals and 37,000 odd was the last time i recall some1 doing this

if some1 outside of america ripped the track legally in thier country, say uk or holland where he has a large fan base, and uploaded it 2 u, it's debatable whether any laws r breaking, as u legally own the music, and u didn't bypass any protection ureself, thus a legal (if ackward) way around it

getting back 2 my original post, i think we can now agree that no matter how many times u ask npgmc about this, they just aren't going 2 shift on the matter, particularly as they think it affects such a tiny proportion of fans

(ironicaly they used 2 use more macs at paisley park, and now it's more pc's, altho its a mac laptop used in the studio where prince works, and desktops used in the other rooms 4 music and video work) -

thus as prince isn't going 2 shift (actually i was just thinking about u mentioning the other albums sold on itunes, would i b right in saying those r put up there by the record companies, ie. warners and sony, and not by prince? - thus prince hasn't put a single track on itunes?),

targetting apple or MS may b a better way, as they will look at things in a businesslike manner. ask them some of the questions i asked, y can't windows media player work on macs, and y can't apple licence so ppl can sell DRM files direct 2 apple users, r apple trying 2 monopolise DRM 4 macs, that kind of thing, ask if they will provide support in new releases

this issue doesn't just affect prince fans who own macs, but fans of other artists, and the general public who own macs, so the true solution is 4 the software companies 2 make the change. y should all the artists b forced 2 confirm 2 something they don't want 2 do? it's like apple is trying 2 create a monopoly of selling DRM tracks 2 mac users isn't it?

so now, who's the bad man?