mcslomo said:

It has to be said, the sound at the first NSJF Rotterdam show in the Ahoy was absolutely terrible, in parts the sound was painful, ear-bleeding. In addition to this, everything was way too loud, way up in the mix, way too much treble & too bright, P's guitar barely audible at times being drowned out by everything else, and there were many more issues as well. Tarnished the music and the experience I think.

Anyone else experience this?

I must say that after seeing a few other shows on the first day of the North Sea Jazz Fest, all of them had good to great sound except for Prince. I just couldn't believe it as it was happening.

?

true

unique said:

hjd said:

In my view the performing artist is responsible for the quality of the performance, including the sound and lighting. It's a fact that out of the 50+ shows I have attended by Prince, there were sound issues at at least 15 of them and the sound was never, ever, very good with the exeption of Indigo2. Brixton Academy comes to mind as an absolute low. NSJ was my worst overall experience (because of the hopeless lighting too).

When you are in a business for as long as Prince has been and at your shows the sound is consistently below average (and I've seen at least 25 shows in any given year for the last 30+ years, so I am in a position to compare), sound appears not to be your top priority.

He is still the best live act I ever saw though. Imagine how good it would be if he got the sound right....

let's just clarify the number of shows you've been to, it's just about 50 right? out of 25 years, so an average of only 2 shows a year? so basically what you are saying is you don't really have a tremendous experience of prince gigs on that basis?

brixton academy sound was shite from where i was, but i was front row and then onstage, and any seasoned gig goer will tell you that sound quality will vary depending on the type of venue and where you stand

the sound quality isn't the artists responsibility. the artists responsibility is to play the music and it's other peoples responsibility to setup the PA and operate the sound desk. we are fortunate that prince is pretty adapt at helping sound guys in their job, but prince's job is to play, not fix the sound

50+ Prince shows among al least 750+ shows by other artists, in all kinds of venues home and abroad give me ample experience to have an opinion about the sound quality Prince shows generally provide. He is usually firmly in the Mediocre section.

I think the artist and/or the artists'management are responsible for the whole concert experience, including choice of venue, merchandise, lights and sound, ticketprices etc. That is not to say they have to do the job themselves.

As to the equipment: artists can go different routes. Queen, for example, made the decision they wanted to own their lights and sound. Others hire the same stuff for a whole tour. Up and coming artists often use the stuff from the venue they play. I have no preference for any of the options, as long as it sounds good.

hjd said:

unique said:

let's just clarify the number of shows you've been to, it's just about 50 right? out of 25 years, so an average of only 2 shows a year? so basically what you are saying is you don't really have a tremendous experience of prince gigs on that basis?

brixton academy sound was shite from where i was, but i was front row and then onstage, and any seasoned gig goer will tell you that sound quality will vary depending on the type of venue and where you stand

the sound quality isn't the artists responsibility. the artists responsibility is to play the music and it's other peoples responsibility to setup the PA and operate the sound desk. we are fortunate that prince is pretty adapt at helping sound guys in their job, but prince's job is to play, not fix the sound

50+ Prince shows among al least 750+ shows by other artists, in all kinds of venues home and abroad give me ample experience to have an opinion about the sound quality Prince shows generally provide. He is usually firmly in the Mediocre section.

I think the artist and/or the artists'management are responsible for the whole concert experience, including choice of venue, merchandise, lights and sound, ticketprices etc. That is not to say they have to do the job themselves.

As to the equipment: artists can go different routes. Queen, for example, made the decision they wanted to own their lights and sound. Others hire the same stuff for a whole tour. Up and coming artists often use the stuff from the venue they play. I have no preference for any of the options, as long as it sounds good.

Agreed, well put.

hjd said:

unique said:

let's just clarify the number of shows you've been to, it's just about 50 right? out of 25 years, so an average of only 2 shows a year? so basically what you are saying is you don't really have a tremendous experience of prince gigs on that basis?

brixton academy sound was shite from where i was, but i was front row and then onstage, and any seasoned gig goer will tell you that sound quality will vary depending on the type of venue and where you stand

the sound quality isn't the artists responsibility. the artists responsibility is to play the music and it's other peoples responsibility to setup the PA and operate the sound desk. we are fortunate that prince is pretty adapt at helping sound guys in their job, but prince's job is to play, not fix the sound

50+ Prince shows among al least 750+ shows by other artists, in all kinds of venues home and abroad give me ample experience to have an opinion about the sound quality Prince shows generally provide. He is usually firmly in the Mediocre section.

I think the artist and/or the artists'management are responsible for the whole concert experience, including choice of venue, merchandise, lights and sound, ticketprices etc. That is not to say they have to do the job themselves.

As to the equipment: artists can go different routes. Queen, for example, made the decision they wanted to own their lights and sound. Others hire the same stuff for a whole tour. Up and coming artists often use the stuff from the venue they play. I have no preference for any of the options, as long as it sounds good.

an average of 2 prince shows a year doesn't make you an expert on sound quality at prince gigs. i've been to far more and i can tell you that poor sound quality isn't the norm at a prince show

and the artist and his management aren't responsible for the whole experience. it's just not possible for them to do that. they are hired by the promotor and it's the promotors responsibility to take care of that end, it's the artists responsibility to perform. of course the artist benefits from having a better sound thus wants the sound to be the best possible, but the artist can only work with that is provided by the promotor, such as venue and PA. with some venue and PA combinations you aren't going to get a great sound no matter what you do, it's out of the artists control

the one thing that strikes me at a prince concert in particular normally is how good the sound is, because usually prince will soundcheck for hours before the show to get everything sounding as good as possible. but when arriving in a new town for the first time on showday or getting access to the venue on showday with stage / PA setup time included, it cuts down on soundcheck time. that's partly why the musicology tour sounded so bad, less setup time and shows in the round in new arenas most days. do you remember the sound at the musicology shows?

unique said:

hjd said:

50+ Prince shows among al least 750+ shows by other artists, in all kinds of venues home and abroad give me ample experience to have an opinion about the sound quality Prince shows generally provide. He is usually firmly in the Mediocre section.

I think the artist and/or the artists'management are responsible for the whole concert experience, including choice of venue, merchandise, lights and sound, ticketprices etc. That is not to say they have to do the job themselves.

As to the equipment: artists can go different routes. Queen, for example, made the decision they wanted to own their lights and sound. Others hire the same stuff for a whole tour. Up and coming artists often use the stuff from the venue they play. I have no preference for any of the options, as long as it sounds good.

an average of 2 prince shows a year doesn't make you an expert on sound quality at prince gigs. i've been to far more and i can tell you that poor sound quality isn't the norm at a prince show

and the artist and his management aren't responsible for the whole experience. it's just not possible for them to do that. they are hired by the promotor and it's the promotors responsibility to take care of that end, it's the artists responsibility to perform. of course the artist benefits from having a better sound thus wants the sound to be the best possible, but the artist can only work with that is provided by the promotor, such as venue and PA. with some venue and PA combinations you aren't going to get a great sound no matter what you do, it's out of the artists control

the one thing that strikes me at a prince concert in particular normally is how good the sound is, because usually prince will soundcheck for hours before the show to get everything sounding as good as possible. but when arriving in a new town for the first time on showday or getting access to the venue on showday with stage / PA setup time included, it cuts down on soundcheck time. that's partly why the musicology tour sounded so bad, less setup time and shows in the round in new arenas most days. do you remember the sound at the musicology shows?

I Didn't get to see Musicology. As I was expecting that tour to come to Europe (that seemed certain at the time, Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it), I didn't bother to fly to the US to see it. Only tour I missed since 1986.

I don't think Prince is hired by a promotor these days. He pretty much decides where he wants to play and then calls a promotor to set it up. That's certainly what happened at NSJ.

And he didn't soundcheck at NSJ on friday, saturday and sunday. He apparently did on thursday, but given the horrible sound on friday that wasn't much help.

Well, I see many, many shows by all kinds of other artists and it strikes me how below average the sound at Prince shows is. So, who else do you go and see besides Prince?

hjd said:

unique said:

an average of 2 prince shows a year doesn't make you an expert on sound quality at prince gigs. i've been to far more and i can tell you that poor sound quality isn't the norm at a prince show

and the artist and his management aren't responsible for the whole experience. it's just not possible for them to do that. they are hired by the promotor and it's the promotors responsibility to take care of that end, it's the artists responsibility to perform. of course the artist benefits from having a better sound thus wants the sound to be the best possible, but the artist can only work with that is provided by the promotor, such as venue and PA. with some venue and PA combinations you aren't going to get a great sound no matter what you do, it's out of the artists control

the one thing that strikes me at a prince concert in particular normally is how good the sound is, because usually prince will soundcheck for hours before the show to get everything sounding as good as possible. but when arriving in a new town for the first time on showday or getting access to the venue on showday with stage / PA setup time included, it cuts down on soundcheck time. that's partly why the musicology tour sounded so bad, less setup time and shows in the round in new arenas most days. do you remember the sound at the musicology shows?

I Didn't get to see Musicology. As I was expecting that tour to come to Europe (that seemed certain at the time, Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it), I didn't bother to fly to the US to see it. Only tour I missed since 1986.

I don't think Prince is hired by a promotor these days. He pretty much decides where he wants to play and then calls a promotor to set it up. That's certainly what happened at NSJ.

And he didn't soundcheck at NSJ on friday, saturday and sunday. He apparently did on thursday, but given the horrible sound on friday that wasn't much help.

Well, I see many, many shows by all kinds of other artists and it strikes me how below average the sound at Prince shows is. So, who else do you go and see besides Prince?

regardless of what you think, prince is hired by promotors. that's how the music business works

i see all sorts of artists new and old of all different styles in all different types of venues. i've been lucky to see many big names in small venues at arms length instead of the usual football stadium apart, including the likes of macca, radiohead, rem, weller, amy winehouse, as well as larger gigs with the likes of floyd, george michael, guns n roses, duran duran, beck, muse. gigs in tv studios, bars, clubs, theatres, arenas, stadiums and fields. saw coldplay too unfortunately. the lowest point of concert attendance. i've been happier at funerals. better music and atmosphere too

i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact

unique said:

hjd said:

I Didn't get to see Musicology. As I was expecting that tour to come to Europe (that seemed certain at the time, Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it), I didn't bother to fly to the US to see it. Only tour I missed since 1986.

I don't think Prince is hired by a promotor these days. He pretty much decides where he wants to play and then calls a promotor to set it up. That's certainly what happened at NSJ.

And he didn't soundcheck at NSJ on friday, saturday and sunday. He apparently did on thursday, but given the horrible sound on friday that wasn't much help.

Well, I see many, many shows by all kinds of other artists and it strikes me how below average the sound at Prince shows is. So, who else do you go and see besides Prince?

regardless of what you think, prince is hired by promotors. that's how the music business works

i see all sorts of artists new and old of all different styles in all different types of venues. i've been lucky to see many big names in small venues at arms length instead of the usual football stadium apart, including the likes of macca, radiohead, rem, weller, amy winehouse, as well as larger gigs with the likes of floyd, george michael, guns n roses, duran duran, beck, muse. gigs in tv studios, bars, clubs, theatres, arenas, stadiums and fields. saw coldplay too unfortunately. the lowest point of concert attendance. i've been happier at funerals. better music and atmosphere too

i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact

"i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact"

Come on Unique, is this your definition of a "fan" or do you just want to be right???

eireboy34 said:

unique said:

regardless of what you think, prince is hired by promotors. that's how the music business works

i see all sorts of artists new and old of all different styles in all different types of venues. i've been lucky to see many big names in small venues at arms length instead of the usual football stadium apart, including the likes of macca, radiohead, rem, weller, amy winehouse, as well as larger gigs with the likes of floyd, george michael, guns n roses, duran duran, beck, muse. gigs in tv studios, bars, clubs, theatres, arenas, stadiums and fields. saw coldplay too unfortunately. the lowest point of concert attendance. i've been happier at funerals. better music and atmosphere too

i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact

"i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact"

Come on Unique, is this your definition of a "fan" or do you just want to be right???

it's not the definition of a fan, but the guy is bragging about seeing prince so many times but didn't see his biggest ever tour once

unique said:

eireboy34 said:

"i'm surprised someone who considers themselves a big fan didn't see him at least once during his biggest ever tour, the most profitable tour of the year in fact"

Come on Unique, is this your definition of a "fan" or do you just want to be right???

it's not the definition of a fan, but the guy is bragging about seeing prince so many times but didn't see his biggest ever tour once

It puzzles me how simply stating that I have been to Prince shows 50+ times, in a discussion about sound quality, can be labelled as bragging. First of al 50+ shows isn't that many around here. Second the number of 50 Prince shows is only mentioned (as is the number of 750+ shows by other artists) to put my opinion about the sound in context. The numbers are mentioned to underline my argument, not to brag.

As for not seeing the Musicology tour: I thought I had explained what happened. I was expecting an European leg of that tour, as were many others. Maybe you have all the time and money in the world, but I don't. So I have to weigh my options and at the time it didn't seem much of a gamble that the tour would come to Europe. As I said before: Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it, so even she thought it would happen. And as you know she was taking part in the tour.

hjd said:

unique said:

it's not the definition of a fan, but the guy is bragging about seeing prince so many times but didn't see his biggest ever tour once

It puzzles me how simply stating that I have been to Prince shows 50+ times, in a discussion about sound quality, can be labelled as bragging. First of al 50+ shows isn't that many around here. Second the number of 50 Prince shows is only mentioned (as is the number of 750+ shows by other artists) to put my opinion about the sound in context. The numbers are mentioned to underline my argument, not to brag.

As for not seeing the Musicology tour: I thought I had explained what happened. I was expecting an European leg of that tour, as were many others. Maybe you have all the time and money in the world, but I don't. So I have to weigh my options and at the time it didn't seem much of a gamble that the tour would come to Europe. As I said before: Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it, so even she thought it would happen. And as you know she was taking part in the tour.

eireboy34 said:

hjd said:

It puzzles me how simply stating that I have been to Prince shows 50+ times, in a discussion about sound quality, can be labelled as bragging. First of al 50+ shows isn't that many around here. Second the number of 50 Prince shows is only mentioned (as is the number of 750+ shows by other artists) to put my opinion about the sound in context. The numbers are mentioned to underline my argument, not to brag.

As for not seeing the Musicology tour: I thought I had explained what happened. I was expecting an European leg of that tour, as were many others. Maybe you have all the time and money in the world, but I don't. So I have to weigh my options and at the time it didn't seem much of a gamble that the tour would come to Europe. As I said before: Candy Dulfer cleared her schedule for it, so even she thought it would happen. And as you know she was taking part in the tour.

True. Couldn't let the bragging thing pass, though. Not from someone who posts pics from his extensive Prince memorabilia collection on the org.

hjd said:

eireboy34 said:

True. Couldn't let the bragging thing pass, though. Not from someone who posts pics from his extensive Prince memorabilia collection on the org.

jealous too?

unique said:

hjd said:

True. Couldn't let the bragging thing pass, though. Not from someone who posts pics from his extensive Prince memorabilia collection on the org.

jealous too?

Nope. Collecting Prince stuff does not interest me.

hjd said:

unique said:

jealous too?

Nope. Collecting Prince stuff does not interest me.

or having a sense of humour?

nokhai said:

Enough said about the horrible sound&lights during the 1st gig. However I still experience hearing problems in my left ear. Sort of num feeling, loss of hearing. Went to the see a specialist and propably have permanent damage. More tests should give an exact diagnose. I don't go to many concerts and never felt the need for earplugs. Big mistake... I was wondering if anybody else (still has) problems with their hearing, or that it's just my bad luck

it can take a few weeks for hearing to get back to normal sometimes. you could have permanent damage BUT things can improve. in other words right after the show your ears may ring, the next few days or even weeks your hearing is a bit muddy. that muddiness can gradually go away, but you have to avoid listening to loud music, particularly earbuds on ipods that pump sound right in your ear instead of cans or preferably speakers

if you do go to more gigs, get some decent earplugs, the type that let in all frequencies but stop you going deaf. i've been using them for about 5 years and it makes a big difference. at hop park as soon as the first band went on stage everyone was wincing from the volume and asking for earbuds as it was so loud at the front, but i was fine

just keep off the loud music for a few weeks/couple of months

once i was at a duran duran gig and the sound was fine and i was at the mixing desk, but there were pyrotechnics during the last song and my left ear starting ringing and it took a couple of months or so until that ear got back to normal, and still if i don't use earplugs at gigs i can sometimes get a muddy sound in that ear for a day or two. if you don't let your ears recover you can do serious permanent damage

Helsinki also had some problems with the sound. It wasn't clear in the beginning (Stratus) and the microphones echoed when they got too close each other and people had their ears covered!
The venue has held numerous concerts and I have to admit Princes sound could have been much better. Sometimes I couldn't get the melody out of the songs. Prince's own guitar was too high. And it mixed up the sound quality in the way back of the arena, they say.

I don't get it.

Some Dutch people were saying on the Cologne threads that the sound was a "German "problem.

Seems to be a recurring problem all over Europe??

eireboy34 said:

I don't get it.

Some Dutch people were saying on the Cologne threads that the sound was a "German "problem.

Seems to be a recurring problem all over Europe??

Yes it is. I was in Rotterdam the 26th of july and the sound was way too loud. By now I always use earplugs at Prince shows, so it didn't bother me too much, but the people around me spend quite a bit of the show with their fingers in their ears.

Through the earplugs you could hear the mix wasn't too bad. The bass was too loud and Shelby was very loud every now and then. You could also hear Andy Allo and Ida sing out of tune a lot, wich suggest problems with their monitor.

The soundlevel was ridiculous though.

I am still looking for a used concert ticket from this show

Please let me know if you have this

Roald Bakker

roaldbakker@hotmail.com