spud80 said:

He most definitely is and I love Him.

spud80 said:

He most definitely is and I love Him.

4bjb said:

A brief but beautiful post, definetly worth posting twice

JazzMeUp said:

"We have all been created for greater things--to love and to be loved. Love is love--to love a person without conditions, without any expectations.
Works of love are works of peace and purity.
Works of love are always a means of becoming closer to God, so the more we help each other,the more we really love Gd better by loving each other. Jesus very clearly said 'Love one another as I have loved you'. Love in action is what gives us grace. We pray and, if we are able to love with a whole heart, then we will see the need. Those who are unwanted, unloved, and uncared for become just a throwaway of society--that's why we must really make everybody feel wanted.---Mother Teresa

Can we "come together" right now?

4bjb said:

That's a very good question... Hopefully Prince's shows will have been an eye opener for many, and his good work hasn't been wasted like Pearls B4 the Swine...
[Edited 9/15/07 13:19pm]

JazzMeUp said:

That's a matter of opinion.

I was there and it was a great show though.

Tokyo said:

Wow, this song "God is Good" is really good stuff! I had never heard of Sam J before, the guy should be famous! Thanks for posting that link Tokyo!

Praise the Lord for Prince (and I ain't religious and certainly not superstitious)!!!

Indi

VanessaB8tt said:

I totally agree with u Vanessa. I was brought up a catholic and believe in a higher source. I have also read the CP too. x

JazzMeUp said:

While I don't share your religious beliefs, I have many friends who do. As such, I can understand why you would feel that god had reached out on that particular night.

I think it's fair to say that pretty much everyone in the Indigo felt similar things to you but your interpretation of it is different because of your faith. I certainly felt a warm feeling but I'm sure that god wasn't with me. With 2,000 people in one place, all sharing love for a man and his music, there are bound to be many positive and warm feelings abundant in the room. For a start, we would have all been eternally grateful that he showed up in the first place, which immediately puts everyone in a great mood. I often look around to people at the shows and I'm smiling, they smile back and we're all having a good time. It feels great to see and hear other people having a good time.

Then on top of that you get pulled up on stage to dance with Prince. This would have put you on a massive high and it's fully understandable that a person of faith would thank god for such a circumstance. But what of those that were pulled up on stage to dance and don't share the faith? They would also have experienced a massive high. Is it possible that you were all just in the right place at the right time?

I'm not trying to knock your faith, or make you question it. As I said, I have many friends of various religions and I respect them all. I am fascinated by faith though and can talk with my friends for hours about it. One element that I find particularly fascinating is the way that people so quickly thank god for the good things that happen, yet when something bad happens they don't have a go at him. Instead they say that it's just gods will and it wasn't meant to be.

TheEnglishGent said:

Thanks for your honest and interesting response. And I am glad you felt the warm feeling too.

JazzMeUp said:

Thanks for responding in a friendly manner. I particularly like the implication that god touched me even if I didn't realise it. That's a wink that I know well from my friends.

Something that does interest me is how you feel about Prince and how these feelings may or may not conflict with one of the first of the 10 commandments, (specific placement dependant on your particular belief but it's usually in the top two). I'm sure you know to which one I am referring, the one about false idols. I'm trying not to assume anything about your feelings for Prince but the way you describe being pulled onstage suggests there is at least some degree of idolisation present. This particular commandment is something I've pondered since Prince became a JW. He can't possibly be comfortable at the way some of his fans, (not implying you here, as I said, trying not to assume anything), behave towards him.

TheEnglishGent said:

This is some deep shit man! but very interesting indeed. The false idols commandment would only be referring to someone who was being worshipped instead of or as a replacement of the 'true' god. So if Jazz it up were worshipping Prince like he was the creator of all things and denying that the 'real' god - was god then she would be breaking that commandment - which clearly she isn't so she's all good for false idols. I think its the term idols that is confusing - remember those commandments were written thousands of years ago and 'idols' as we talk about them didn't exist then. When I was a kid I often thought the whole thing about praying to statues in the Catholic faith smacked of the whole false idol thing but when I got older and a bit wiser i realised people did not pray 'to' the statues - rather they used them as a focus point for their prayers - praying 'through' the statue to commuicate with god.

Think we should all be good for any sort of idolisation of Prince - he's worth it. If there is a god - he's bound to be funky - it'll all be sweet

For the record am not sure where I stand on this issue but a friend of mine has written a cool track called "God is Good" for believers and non-believers alike.

Take a listen while you think on - inspired by all the good people (feedback welcome):

http://www.myspace.com/samjb2

T

Jazz Me Up - apologies have since read your thread - much appreciated...will pass it on.

T

VanessaB8tt said:

Well, that's one interpretation and just an example of how so many parts of the bible can be taken in different ways. Does it really mean that, or has it been adapted to that over the years by people looking to excuse their particular vice? Couldn't money be considered a false idol? I'd argue that people chasing money above all else would be breaking that commandment.

But what of the fans that don't believe in god and do actually worship Prince and would let what he says affect their lives? If they don't worship or believe in god, then Prince is actually becoming an idol as you interpret it. That can't sit comfortably with him and I wonder how that will affect his future after this stay as he takes time off to study the bible more deeply.

VanessaB8tt said:

Maybe not in the mould of a pop stars but surely some people would have idolised pharoahs, prophets , kings or similar?

I live your probing thoughts English gent...yeah I think you hit it there - so much of the bible is about interpretation - you take out of it what suits you sometimes. And def if people are chasing money or power over all other things then they are absolutely 'worshipping false idols' as those things will never bring true happiness - all they bring is destruction. Its very hard to fight your way to the 'top' with out throwing a few punches. In my work there is a guy who spends his days pointing out other peoples mistakes so he can look better to the bosses - he would step on your head to get a step up and very sadley he has got promoted twice recently and other people in the company have started to change their own behaviour to gain status too - I don't want to work there anymore as I would rather be promoted for my good work than for being a backstabbing bitch - and you know what? this guys is a so called 'born again Christian'I dont even think he can see it! He is so blinded by the hunt for power. I pity him. actually I pity the people in his department who are being changed by his influence - I'm just glad I don't have to deal with him very often but I see my friends being stepped on every day and changing to do the same - its really horrible. If there is such a thing as the devil - (which i don't think there is) then he is at work through this guy. In the end of the day my view if that all religions are there as a guide - to keep on the path of trying to be a good person. Most religions have that core message of 'do onto others as you would have done onto you' so if you live you life by that idea - whether it is Karma or whatever - its a pretty good path to be on - but I personally don't need a 'religion' or to go to church to know what - but some people do so I don't think people who believe in 'God' and who are religious should be looked down on as sometimes I think they are....anyhoo...I'm off to have my Sunday lunch - and listen to '17 days' again as its raining outside Thanks!

TheEnglishGent said:

A lot of people throughout history have indeed misinterpreted the Bible in order to justify their evil acts which certainly were not based on love for one another but rather division and hatred. Take the KKK for example. And yes there are a lot of vices that even believers need to watch out for. Believing in God certainly does not make a person perfect. Rather it should make them aware of their imperfections. But God teaches you that it is normal to be imperfect and have weaknesses, as long as you are willing to learn from them. God still loves people who are imperfect. And this makes you humble. There is no point in trying to be perfect. If you listen to God, you will naturally strive towards purity, love and gradually will get closer and closer to God.
I am sure those extreme fans will sooner or later understand the message that is very obviously contained in most of Prince’s songs. I agree that some of them must be so blinded by Prince himself that they might not see the content immediately, which can indeed be a hindrance. However, you must admit that Prince takes a lot of time and effort to remind people about God anyway. In most of his interviews and even during shows, his main focus is on God and he seems very eager to guide “his” people towards Him.

Prince is a very gifted artist. This is what gave him the status of star that he so rightly deserves. He does seem very aware of his own talent and radiates a lot of self-confidence. This can sometimes be mistaken for self-importance. He has in reality remained very humble. Ok, as a public figure, he has to be careful and often isolates himself for safety and tranquility, but otherwise he seems very keen to cross those boundaries between him and his fans and, at least in theory, this should play down the “fame” factor. Do you know many famous people who spend most of their nights in a small venue giving people a spectacular aftershow? And how many talk to people in person and let them go on stage? This I think reveals how humble he is deep down and how he wants to make people feel on the same level.

When I was up there, it felt really normal to be there with him, and he seemed more like a friend rather than an iconic statue. I still felt very exalted but that was more because of the beauty of the situation and the love I felt that was going in on in the whole room.

And I do think God has touched all of us that night. Although some might not know it yet...

Hey Jazz it up! I know what you mean about feeling normal once you actually were up there with him - I met the guys from Kasabian a few months ago and its still amazes me what such normal guys they were - we were just hanging out and chatting and although when they went on stage to perform we were all in awe but when they came back off and were chatting and telling us yarns it was like they were just your average mates - was cool to have such a levelling experience of people we throught woudl be 'too cool for school' - couldn't be farther from the truth. Really nice guys.

spud80 said:

I quite agree.... superstitious is a strong noun and just like the original post by jazzmeup, everyones experiences r down 2 perception n experience.....

jasonh , ur perception is that which u expressed... but others think differently, n r completely entitled 2.
,
....and until u become a moderator u have no rights based on ur perception,
2 tel others who have written about their experience and perception,....that they shouldn't do so.
this is a forum....not a school.,
if u have kids, or others do....isn't it the responsibility of parents / guardians 2 discuss n educate them upon issues they themselves r exposed 2?

through sharing experiences n stories we grow n lean, n appreciate 1 another!

OMI, love is what is all about.... treating others as u would want 2 b treated!

and spreading and sharing your joy....with or with out the Prince concerts,
new years eve resoulutions, or any kind of worship.


[Edited 9/16/07 5:50am]

lovealotbare said:

JazzMeUp started this thread with these assertions
1) God is real
2) God is good
3) God is powerful
These assertions were stated as fact, not opinion. The fact that JazzMeUp and others hold this list to be the truth doesn't make it so.I find it interesting that people like JazzMeUp are never held to account when they make these bold but baseless remarks, all one hears is a lot of woolly remarks about 'respecting other's views' What if JazzMeUp had said
1) Homosexuality is wrong
2) No woman has the right to an abortion
3) All non believers shall burn in hell
What would the reaction or orgers and moderators be then? Would you respect these views? I ask because, whether you like it or not THAT is part of the message behind JazzMeUp's words, love for some not for all.

VanessaB8tt said:

Serge from Kasabian is one of my gf's best mates from home. He's a lovely lovely guy as per your comments. Not all performance artists are c*cks, just like not all regular peeople are nice!

On a subject related to this thread, (and I cannot actually believe that I am saying this in all honesty) I got some God in my life this year. I never really had faith in anything before but I guess sometimes you have to get to a place where only one thing (faith) can help you before you start to have any.

I went there and now I've got something else in my life. I wouldn't foist my views on anyone but I'd advise everyone to keep an open mind in life. It won't do you any harm and you might well reap some benefits.

jasonh said:

And u r r right 2 to express ur views..... i personally dont agree with all that is posted... and wouldn't agree with some of the above.... but i would not tell someone that they should n't post because of children...its through debate and discussion that we learn and understand.
yes debate what jazzmeup has written as we would debate with people who talk of homosexuality and abortion.... and i have stood on the street 4 hours disussing all of these topics,, but i would not tell another human being not 2 express and share his/her joy just so my children don't read it.

That is selfish and lazy on the part of parents not open to then further discuss something they read.
I went to a catholic school and they told me lots of things that i was suppossed to take as face value given facts.... BUT
my parents taught me to ask questions and debate and research and share n talk to many and then form my opinion.

It would b inconceivable 2 filter everything urs or other children r exposed 2, but u can communicate and discuss things through with them and guide them the way u want 2... however at the end of the day, urs or any1s child is a future adult who will make all of their choices themselves and u or they cannot blame any1 4 those choices, as they made them....

Their future choices r not totally dependant on a forum where some1 posts, nor r they totally dependent on what u don't allow them 2 b exposed 2.

I appreciate ur concerns 4 our progeny but Let people have their joy.
jazz wasn't b-ing negative or antagonistic. U can share a moment to explain n discuss all the forums with ur child... as well as the contents of prince's lyrics, sum of which do come with parental guidance sticker on the album cover!

And every one who posts here takes as granted that this is a forum.

which means its a forum for debate... not a school, college, university or any other place of published journal that tries to teach/ announce thgings as facts...
Forum for debate means opinions... some of us have to put IMO (in my opinion) when this has to b reminded to others but generally we all know its always someones peception and experience, whether any1 else agrees or not, whether its a radical view or not.



if u really think he was then report it 2 a moderator..... they have the final say.....


live4lovelex
[quote]
[Edited 9/16/07 7:40am]
[Edited 9/16/07 7:43am]

antine1 said:

Nice experience, Just like when i met the man himself on the 12th! he came across as a genuinely nice person, but just with a lot of make up on!! He could have preached to us on becoming a JW, but he never - he seemed to actually care for the peeps q'ing to see him.

That night and in reflection it was like the main man/woman/God was like dont think i forgot about you boy, you may have forgot about me, but im still looking out for you! Scientifically we know now that the place where we were Q'ing is the back of the Indigo and it wouldnt be largely unexpected for P to be pulling up there at some point as he could be playing an aftershow, and i may have been lucky to be in the back the Q. I guess faith kicks in where you beleive in that little bit thats open to interpretation or doesnt make sense when tested in any other way. As long as your not bothering anyone i guess itl make you a better person - overall its a personal thing right. And let that be the end

jasonh said:

Hello jasonh. I detect some anger in your message and I can understand that if you thought that your 3 points were "hidden" behind my message you would have all rights to feel that way. But they weren't.

It would be too long to get into the details of why I had made those assertions, as they are based on a life long experience with God. I am sorry if the start of the thread appears a little vague to you. As most people are Prince fans here, I had wrongly assumed that most of you were already familiar with God's message as it is so often referred to in his lyrics. I would love to share those experiences with you unfortunately it could take a long time and this forum is (obviously) not the right place for it.

Again, based on my own experiences and that of many others, I confirm that God does love EVERYONE.

You should read a cool book written by Philip Yancey, called "What's so amazing about grace". I think this book will surprise you, especially in connection with what you have written above.

Please do not let my positive thread become a source or irritation in your heart. It was something I felt like sharing with others, not some kind of judgement directed towards those who don't believe.

JazzMeUp said:

Then may I also recommend they read another cool book. It's written by Richard Dawkins and is called "The God Delusion".

TheEnglishGent said:

From what I've just read, Richard Dawkins's ideas seem very impressive.

He also wrote another book called "Unweaving the Rainbow" in which he "addresses the common perception of ordinary people who find science dull and cannot understand why scientists find it not only important but also thrilling, interesting and beautiful".

It's a shame he hasn't opened his heart to God yet. With his brilliant demonstrative skills he could then address the common perception of ordinary people who find spirituality dull and cannot understand why believers find it not only important but also thrilling, interesting and beautiful.

The world is full of misunderstood people...

JazzMeUp said:

Fascinating.

The fact that you indicate that he'd need to open his heart to god suggests it's a very emotional thing. I'd say that Dawkins opened his mind and found more logical answers. Speaking to friends who believe, I can see the great joy that their faith brings to their lives and seeing that it's hard to knock it and suggest it is a bad thing. I've personally found it increasingly liberating to discover my own personal belief in the non-existance of god.

The moment I realised that this was my one and only chance on this planet was like a bolt from the sky and I'd imagine that it's not too disimilar from the feelings people get when they're born again. To know that there's nothing else means you have to make the most of every single day.
[Edited 9/17/07 6:05am]

TheEnglishGent said: