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Thread started 11/22/21 7:29am

RichardS

Should teachers teach whatever they want?

Following the court ruling detailed on the 'only two genders' thread, should teachers be allowed to teach whatever they want e.g. flat earth, creationism, moon landing was a hoax, Holocaust didn't happen, the Bible is a work of fiction, BLM - all based on whatever they believe?

[Edited 11/22/21 9:01am]

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Reply #1 posted 11/22/21 7:50am

EmmaMcG

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I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program.

And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.
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Reply #2 posted 11/22/21 7:53am

OldFriends4Sal
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I think we all know the answer is NO

college elective courses are a bit different like : Religion

.

hey is this your first thread created? anxiety usually follows

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
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Reply #3 posted 11/22/21 7:55am

OldFriends4Sal
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examples of why the answer is NO

.

.

.

"My parents are freaking dumb, okay. And the minute I figured that out, the world opens up. You don't have to do everything your parents say. And you don't have to believe what your parents believe. Because most likely, you're smarter than them. ...


If I hear you say a damn word about [the LGBTQIA+ community], I will open a can, and I will make your life a living hell. ..."

Replying to @libsoftiktok
A parent of a student in this teacher’s class posted this on Facebook:

USSANews.com | The Tea Pa...ront Page.

image.png?width=980

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #4 posted 11/22/21 7:58am

OldFriends4Sal
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Antifa teacher set to be fired by school after attempting to radicalize children

"Natomas Unified will be taking the legally required next steps to place the teacher on unpaid leave and fire the teacher."

A California school district is planning on firing one of its teachers after an undercover Project Veritas video revealed he was radicalizing the students. According to Natomas Unified School District, "Yesterday, a group released an undercover video that has been covered extensively. In this video, a teacher at Inderkum High School was recorded sharing his educational approach that is disturbing and undermines the public's trust."

The Project Veritas report released on Tuesday exposes Inderkum High School AP government teacher Gabriel Gipe for politically indoctrinating students and stating that he is turning his students into "revolutionaries." "I have 180 days to turn them [students] into revolutionaries … Scare the f— out of them," said Gipe in the undercover footage filmed by Project Veritas.

Despite initially ignoring Project Veritas when approached, the district now says, "As of today, this teacher was placed on paid leave because of his actions and choices in the classroom. Natomas Unified will be taking the legally required next steps to place the teacher on unpaid leave and fire the teacher."

The district also addressed the imagery in Gipe's classroom, including the Antifa flag and the poster of the murderous dictator Mao Zedong. In their statement, the district notes they removed the imagery and also found more disturbing political material.

a video of him talking in the link

...

BREAKING: Antifa teacher ...Millennial

maxresdefault.jpg

Mother of 'Antifa Teacher' Student Destroys Him in School Board Meeting!
Listen/Download my podcast "Rob Smith Is Problematic" for more: apple.co/2YsROgS

Mother DESTROYS Natomas Unified School Board Members Over Gabriel Gipe

MUST WATCH: Brave Mother ... - YouTube

https://youtu.be/v4J5hkUlOpU

Antifa teacher angers par...- TheBlaze

Parents were not satisfied by the school board's actions. On Wednesday, livid parents attended the Natomas Unified School District to demand accountability for the teacher that was freely able to spew radical ideas in the classroom to indoctrinate students at a public school.

One impassioned mother slammed the school board for allowing her daughter to be influenced by the far-left teacher.

"The reason why my daughter is standing behind me is because my job as a parent is to protect her from anybody that has ill will towards her," the mother told the school board.

"In two weeks and 13 days, he was allowed to change my daughter's mind about some fascist crap that y'all have let in this school," she exclaimed.

"I'm from Texas. This does not go on in Texas," the mom proclaimed. "So to think that my very sound-minded daughter would go against me and my wishes and our values in our home to be able to go and support this man, and he is putting her in harm's way."

"What the hell are y'all doing? I'm tired. How long does it have to go on? Before somebody says something? How long? How long? What are you going to do? That's the question. Get him out of here. We don't f***ing care about this boy. He got to go," she declared, which received applause from the other parents.

Another parent noted, "We're gathered here today because we have teachers who've decided to become indoctrineers and not educators."

An enraged father asked, "You feel this pain right here? It's not going away. The only question I got is where does the f***ing buck stop? This is bigger than one teacher … there were so many red flags. The man had an Antifa flag behind his desk. He had Chairman Mao in the f***ing corner. Are you kidding me?"



hqdefault.jpg

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #5 posted 11/22/21 8:03am

RichardS

EmmaMcG said:

I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

The problem with that is that many people disagree on a lot of 'facts' e.g. how many genders are there?

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Reply #6 posted 11/22/21 8:13am

RichardS

The argument on the 'only two genders' thread is "Freedom of speech and religion includes the freedom not to speak messages contrary to our core beliefs, and public schools shouldn’t require teachers to personally endorse a belief with which they disagree, but that’s exactly what Policy 8040 does".

If a teacher believes in flat earth, should they be forced to endorse that the earth is a sphere?

OF4S has given examples of crazy teachers, but what about the crazy teacher who refuses to believe in gender fluidity - shouldn't that teacher be treated in the same way as those other examples?

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Reply #7 posted 11/22/21 8:14am

OnlyNDaUsa

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You can edit the title...


And to the question no they should stick to the curriculum if they do not agree they can quit. Or risk being fired.


But I may have the a 4th option... Normally I say you have 3.

Suck it up, lobby for Change, leave... But just maybe just ignoring it may be a 4th. It may fall between suck it up and lobby for Change...
i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #8 posted 11/22/21 8:21am

OldFriends4Sal
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RichardS said:

The argument on the 'only two genders' thread is "Freedom of speech and religion includes the freedom not to speak messages contrary to our core beliefs, and public schools shouldn’t require teachers to personally endorse a belief with which they disagree, but that’s exactly what Policy 8040 does".

If a teacher believes in flat earth, should they be forced to endorse that the earth is a sphere?

OF4S has given examples of crazy teachers, but what about the crazy teacher who refuses to believe in gender fluidity - shouldn't that teacher be treated in the same way as those other examples?

you can have that last question in the only two genders thread kiddo

the other stuff keep here

they are are very different subject types

I'll post some stuff from thread we had on this subject earlier this year

... in the only two genders thread

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #9 posted 11/22/21 8:23am

OldFriends4Sal
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“Okay, so during third period, we have announcements and they do the pledge of allegiance,” Pitzen said in the video posted to social media. “I always tell my class, stand if you feel like it, don’t stand if you feel like it, say the words if you want, you don’t have to say the words.”

Since there is no American flag in the classroom, one of her students asked her where to look during the pledge of allegiance.

“I tell this kid, ‘We do have a flag in the class that you can pledge your allegiance to. And he like, looks around and goes, ‘Oh, that one?,'” she said in the video, panning the camera to the pride flag.

The school addressed the video on the teacher’s personal social media account, which has since been taken down and “caused alarm and concern related to saluting the American flag,” NMUSD wrote in its statement.

“Showing respect for our nation’s flag is an important value our District instills in our students and is an expectation of our employees,” the district added.

Richard Grenell, former acting director of National Intelligence, lambasted the video asking how a parent could “allow their child to be taught by this wacko?”

...

School Investigates Teach...ily Caller

Screenshot/Twitter/LibsOfTikTok

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #10 posted 11/22/21 8:24am

OldFriends4Sal
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RichardS said:

Following the court ruling detailed on the 'only two genders' thread, should teachers be allowed to teach whatever they want e.g. flat earth, creationism, moon landing was a hoax, Holocaust didn't happen, the Bible is a work of fiction, BLM - all based on whatever they believe?

here is something more direct to your topic (non more than two genders discussion)

I disagree with this statement and teacher

.

.

.

I'm a teacher. Parents should stay out of the classroom and let us decide what to teach our students.

insider@insider.com (Matt Walton) 57 mins ago

Terry McAuliffe, Democratic candidate for Governor of Virginia, has been under fire after he made remarks in the final gubernatorial debate regarding parental input and involvement into Virginia public schools.

McAuliffe, whom I've endorsed, said in his final debate with Republican nominee Glenn Younkin, that "I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach."

...

I'm a teacher. Parents sh... (msn.com)

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #11 posted 11/22/21 8:24am

RichardS

OnlyNDaUsa said:

You can edit the title...

Hadn't spotted that, but somehow I prefer that way.

Clearly my teachers refused to teach spelling.

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Reply #12 posted 11/22/21 8:26am

RichardS

OldFriends4Sale said:

“Okay, so during third period, we have announcements and they do the pledge of allegiance,” Pitzen said in the video posted to social media. “I always tell my class, stand if you feel like it, don’t stand if you feel like it, say the words if you want, you don’t have to say the words.”

Since there is no American flag in the classroom, one of her students asked her where to look during the pledge of allegiance.

“I tell this kid, ‘We do have a flag in the class that you can pledge your allegiance to. And he like, looks around and goes, ‘Oh, that one?,'” she said in the video, panning the camera to the pride flag.

The school addressed the video on the teacher’s personal social media account, which has since been taken down and “caused alarm and concern related to saluting the American flag,” NMUSD wrote in its statement.

“Showing respect for our nation’s flag is an important value our District instills in our students and is an expectation of our employees,” the district added.

Richard Grenell, former acting director of National Intelligence, lambasted the video asking how a parent could “allow their child to be taught by this wacko?”

...

School Investigates Teach...ily Caller

Screenshot/Twitter/LibsOfTikTok

Now I'm going to have to start a new thread on whether 1970s glasses should have come back into fashion.

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Reply #13 posted 11/22/21 8:40am

OldFriends4Sal
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I thought nose rings were out

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #14 posted 11/22/21 9:57am

EmmaMcG

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RichardS said:



EmmaMcG said:


I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

The problem with that is that many people disagree on a lot of 'facts' e.g. how many genders are there?



If something has been proven to be true, for example, the Holocaust or a spherical earth, then it is a fact that can not be argued with. These are the kinds things that should be taught in schools.


That second part depends entirely on your definition of gender.
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Reply #15 posted 11/22/21 10:34am

OldFriends4Sal
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The poll question: Should education policies require teachers to follow a prescribed curriculum so all students can learn the same content, or should education policies give teachers flexibility to teach in ways they think best?

First, a comment on the question itself: apples and oranges, alas. The question is not well-framed. The survey conflates the ‘what’ with the ‘how’ of teaching. Content can be mandated while teaching can still vary: the question obscures this important distinction as framed (probably just to be sensible to laypersons).

In fact, this distinction probably reflects the norm. i. e. in most districts and even many private schools there is a curriculum framework that obligates all who teach the courses/grades in question, while little is mandated in terms of specific teaching techniques or instructional activities; that is typically left up to teachers. The public’s response – 70% want teachers to have the flexibility – probably reflects a broadly-held view that practitioners (in any field) should be able to exercise judgment about what clients need.

Yet, this result (and the conflated version of the question) begs an important question about just what it means to be a professional. How much freedom to teach a certain way should a professional educator have?

I trust readers agree that professional freedom does not permit one to deviate from the content of the curriculum to ignore specified content goals. Teachers aren’t self-employed entrepreneurs to whom we ‘rent space in the educational mall’ (as one exasperated high school principal once said to me.) There is an organization and it has a Mission and students have a right to a valid and coherent education over time and across teachers and schools if they move. Indeed, the research is clear and common sense about the virtue of such a mandate.

A ‘guaranteed and viable’ curriculum in Marzano’s phrase (summing up all the meta-analyses over the years) is key if you want to ensure that the largest number of students achieve desired outcomes. The success of the Standards movement among rank and file teachers shows that we have come to accept this view. However, not enough frank discussion has been had in schools about the other issue – the so-called right to teach as one sees fit.

Though the 25-year-old rebel in me says “Of course!” and the 61-year-old in me has a negative visceral reaction to scripted teaching programs like Success For All, it is, in fact, a difficult position to maintain objectively. All learning goals imply that some pedagogies are appropriate and others are not – given the stated goals and given how people learn.

You can’t only lecture if you aim to develop critical thinkers.

You can’t merely march through textbook exercises in math if you seek to develop great problem solvers.

You cannot just tell students what history means if you want them to develop the ability to analyze events and documents themselves.

...

How Much Freedom Should A...ought.com)

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #16 posted 11/22/21 10:53am

IanRG

EmmaMcG said:

I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

.

I thnk there is a scale depending on age and ability of the students. At the beginning of their time at school the child needs the tools of education, not the facts - how to read, count, maths spelling, the process of learning. Then the facts. After this the best thing a teacher can teach is how to learn and think critically. This is beyond the facts and into understanding.

.

Religious creation stories are fine - In religion, never in science and if you teach one creation story, this should be compared to other religious creation stories. Being taught to discern conspiracy theories or political spin is important.

.

But this should be as per a properly structured curriculum without radicalising teachers or parents seeking to deny facts.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #17 posted 11/22/21 10:58am

OldFriends4Sal
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IanRG said:

EmmaMcG said:

I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

.

I thnk there is a scale depending on age and ability of the students. At the beginning of their time at school the child needs the tools of education, not the facts - how to read, count, maths spelling, the process of learning.

Those are not Facts? so 1 + 1 doesn't factually = 2?

I can spell READ(as in read a book) as Reed Rede?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #18 posted 11/22/21 11:06am

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

IanRG said:

.

I thnk there is a scale depending on age and ability of the students. At the beginning of their time at school the child needs the tools of education, not the facts - how to read, count, maths spelling, the process of learning.

Those are not Facts? so 1 + 1 doesn't factually = 2?

I can spell READ(as in read a book) as Reed Rede?

.

Semantics - The tools of maths are based on facts but what you are taught is to use the tools, not just recite the fact. The most important thing in early maths is how to use 1 + 1 etc, so you can develop the skill to add multiple different numbers together. You are not taught why 1 + 1 = 2 until quite high maths.

[Edited 11/22/21 11:35am]

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #19 posted 11/22/21 12:46pm

RichardS

EmmaMcG said:

RichardS said:

The problem with that is that many people disagree on a lot of 'facts' e.g. how many genders are there?

If something has been proven to be true, for example, the Holocaust or a spherical earth, then it is a fact that can not be argued with. These are the kinds things that should be taught in schools. That second part depends entirely on your definition of gender.

I pretty much agree. But we have seen a teacher get a court ruling to say he doesn't have to use the personal pronouns that students wish to use, because it is against his beliefs. What if he believes in creationism? Should he be allowed to refuse to teach Darwinism? The court ruling would suggest that such a refusal is OK. A precedent has been set - where does it end?

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Reply #20 posted 11/22/21 3:45pm

EmmaMcG

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RichardS said:



EmmaMcG said:


RichardS said:


The problem with that is that many people disagree on a lot of 'facts' e.g. how many genders are there?



If something has been proven to be true, for example, the Holocaust or a spherical earth, then it is a fact that can not be argued with. These are the kinds things that should be taught in schools. That second part depends entirely on your definition of gender.

I pretty much agree. But we have seen a teacher get a court ruling to say he doesn't have to use the personal pronouns that students wish to use, because it is against his beliefs. What if he believes in creationism? Should he be allowed to refuse to teach Darwinism? The court ruling would suggest that such a refusal is OK. A precedent has been set - where does it end?



I haven't been keeping up with the other thread but I assume this is in America? Regardless, I don't think people who use their religious beliefs as a shield should ever be hired as a teacher in the first place.
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Reply #21 posted 11/22/21 3:56pm

EmmaMcG

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IanRG said:



EmmaMcG said:


I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

.


I thnk there is a scale depending on age and ability of the students. At the beginning of their time at school the child needs the tools of education, not the facts - how to read, count, maths spelling, the process of learning. Then the facts. After this the best thing a teacher can teach is how to learn and think critically. This is beyond the facts and into understanding.


.


Religious creation stories are fine - In religion, never in science and if you teach one creation story, this should be compared to other religious creation stories. Being taught to discern conspiracy theories or political spin is important.


.


But this should be as per a properly structured curriculum without radicalising teachers or parents seeking to deny facts.



I was accounting for maths etc when I said "provable facts" but I think I understand what you mean. And I agree. Though I do think religion has no place in schools. As an optional, after-school thing, that's fair enough. But school should be for real education, not horseshit like invisible men and imaginary friends.
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Reply #22 posted 11/22/21 4:26pm

IanRG

EmmaMcG said:

IanRG said:

.

I thnk there is a scale depending on age and ability of the students. At the beginning of their time at school the child needs the tools of education, not the facts - how to read, count, maths spelling, the process of learning. Then the facts. After this the best thing a teacher can teach is how to learn and think critically. This is beyond the facts and into understanding.

.

Religious creation stories are fine - In religion, never in science and if you teach one creation story, this should be compared to other religious creation stories. Being taught to discern conspiracy theories or political spin is important.

.

But this should be as per a properly structured curriculum without radicalising teachers or parents seeking to deny facts.

I was accounting for maths etc when I said "provable facts" but I think I understand what you mean. And I agree. Though I do think religion has no place in schools. As an optional, after-school thing, that's fair enough. But school should be for real education, not horseshit like invisible men and imaginary friends.

.

I agree for State Schools (or whatever secular schools are called where you are). But there are religious schools. None of my family went to a religious school.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #23 posted 11/23/21 1:40am

JorisE73

IanRG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Those are not Facts? so 1 + 1 doesn't factually = 2?

I can spell READ(as in read a book) as Reed Rede?

.

Semantics - The tools of maths are based on facts but what you are taught is to use the tools, not just recite the fact. The most important thing in early maths is how to use 1 + 1 etc, so you can develop the skill to add multiple different numbers together. You are not taught why 1 + 1 = 2 until quite high maths.

[Edited 11/22/21 11:35am]


Fully agree with this, when developing and adding more to your toolkit 1+1 can also equal 3 (binary).

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Reply #24 posted 11/29/21 1:08am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

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No way.
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Reply #25 posted 11/29/21 8:08am

Empress

EmmaMcG said:

I think that teachers should just teach provable facts. Anything else, like religion for example, should be an optional after-school program. And if anyone believes in creationism, flat earth, the moon landing is a hoax or that the Holocaust didn't happen then they're not fit to teach and should not be hired. Like I said, stick to actual, provable facts and that's it.

Great post! I completely agree.

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