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Reply #60 posted 10/17/21 1:11am

Vannormal

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:

.

Previous pandemics and epidemics have not seen such a strong political movement primarily by the far right to fight commonsense and such efforts seek to blame everyone else rather than just handle the outbreak. There were some protests against the moves to manage the Spanish flu, but they were not as silly. I think it is because they are victims of other people's successes - We are less often exposed to outbreaks in the West, whereas people in Asia and Africa are used to managing outbreaks.


Vaccination should be voluntary.
It's good it's available and those people who want to take it, by all means, go ahead and take it.
But for people for whom it's not realy necessary, like for me since I've had had Covid-19 in March 2020, they should not be pressured/pushed and discriminated. That's ridiculous.
Especially now it becomes more and more obvious that vaccination does not prevent people from 'catching' the virus.

-

You only feel pressured or pushed when you have no other options available anymore.

It has nothing to do whatsoever with 'discimination' (or 'freedom, 'free will' whatever out of context and constantly misused words)...

We're all trapped here in this fucking pandemic, and it'll last just as long as those who refuse to participate.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #61 posted 10/17/21 4:53am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Evidence suggests fully vaccinated people are three times less likely to be infected with coronavirus. https://www.imperial.ac.u...er-double/
But then with 40,000+ people in the UK still picking up the infection every day, this means herd immunity and the virus withering away isn't going to happen. Worse still, double jabbed people can still get severely ill and die, though at rates even lower than the flu.

The only way to really beat this virus is to take it back to the lab, tweak it so it becomes far less virulent, therefore not deadly, while at the same time making it super transmissible like the measles (every measles sufferer is thought to pass it on to another 12-18 people). This way, it will outpace the delta variant. And everyone will be exposed to it within a period of 3 months. Which means that everyone will have strong level of antibody protection, continuously, on top of b and t cell memory, which themselves confer a degree of protection and allow these antibodies to modify in response to meeting the Delta variant, should people encounter that later on. Everyone wins! Except, this is a science fiction idea and may be impossible.


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #62 posted 10/17/21 11:10pm

TweetyV6

avatar

Vannormal said:

TweetyV6 said:


Vaccination should be voluntary.
It's good it's available and those people who want to take it, by all means, go ahead and take it.
But for people for whom it's not realy necessary, like for me since I've had had Covid-19 in March 2020, they should not be pressured/pushed and discriminated. That's ridiculous.
Especially now it becomes more and more obvious that vaccination does not prevent people from 'catching' the virus.

-

You only feel pressured or pushed when you have no other options available anymore.

It has nothing to do whatsoever with 'discimination' (or 'freedom, 'free will' whatever out of context and constantly misused words)...

We're all trapped here in this fucking pandemic, and it'll last just as long as those who refuse to participate.

-

The stupidity has flushed over the threshold again

Discrimination comes from the latin word Discriminat which means 'distinguish between'.
Now say again that it has nothing to do with discrimination.... rolleyes rolleyes

We're all trapped in this because of weasel politicians and people in their advisory boards who make a shitload of money from this situation.

In the Netherlands that board is called OMT, Outbreak Management Team
ALL of the core members of that team have earned significant amounts of money from this 'pandemic' (which it isn't anymore, it has become endemic), some of them a couple of million Euro's

Same in Germany.
Germany's top adisory virologist, Dr. Drosten has 'invented' the PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 together with a company owned by a good friend of his and where Drosten is a silent share holder of.

Allegedly (a Swiss newspaper researched this) he earnes somewhere between €1,50 - €2,50 per sold PCR testkits.
Guess why is is not in favour of lifting restrictions and keep the mandatory testing alive.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #63 posted 10/17/21 11:16pm

TweetyV6

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

Evidence suggests fully vaccinated people are three times less likely to be infected with coronavirus. https://www.imperial.ac.u...er-double/
But then with 40,000+ people in the UK still picking up the infection every day, this means herd immunity and the virus withering away isn't going to happen. Worse still, double jabbed people can still get severely ill and die, though at rates even lower than the flu.

The only way to really beat this virus is to take it back to the lab, tweak it so it becomes far less virulent, therefore not deadly, while at the same time making it super transmissible like the measles (every measles sufferer is thought to pass it on to another 12-18 people). This way, it will outpace the delta variant. And everyone will be exposed to it within a period of 3 months. Which means that everyone will have strong level of antibody protection, continuously, on top of b and t cell memory, which themselves confer a degree of protection and allow these antibodies to modify in response to meeting the Delta variant, should people encounter that later on. Everyone wins! Except, this is a science fiction idea and may be impossible.



I advise you to read 'The Transmission of Epidemic Influenza' by RE Hope-Simpson.

It's a well known FACT that virusses that are transmitted by air, which SARS-CoV-2 is, over time mutate to become more virtulent but at the same time less deadly.

Which makes sense when you look at it from the standpoint of the virus.
Both changes implicate a bigger succes of surviving.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #64 posted 10/18/21 3:19am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Evidence suggests fully vaccinated people are three times less likely to be infected with coronavirus. https://www.imperial.ac.u...er-double/
But then with 40,000+ people in the UK still picking up the infection every day, this means herd immunity and the virus withering away isn't going to happen. Worse still, double jabbed people can still get severely ill and die, though at rates even lower than the flu.

The only way to really beat this virus is to take it back to the lab, tweak it so it becomes far less virulent, therefore not deadly, while at the same time making it super transmissible like the measles (every measles sufferer is thought to pass it on to another 12-18 people). This way, it will outpace the delta variant. And everyone will be exposed to it within a period of 3 months. Which means that everyone will have strong level of antibody protection, continuously, on top of b and t cell memory, which themselves confer a degree of protection and allow these antibodies to modify in response to meeting the Delta variant, should people encounter that later on. Everyone wins! Except, this is a science fiction idea and may be impossible.



I advise you to read 'The Transmission of Epidemic Influenza' by RE Hope-Simpson.

It's a well known FACT that virusses that are transmitted by air, which SARS-CoV-2 is, over time mutate to become more virtulent but at the same time less deadly.

Which makes sense when you look at it from the standpoint of the virus.
Both changes implicate a bigger succes of surviving.


Except in this case with the Delta variant, there's no evidence it's become less deadly. But it's helluva lot more transmissible. And Occam's Razor would theorize this is due to it becoming more aerosolized...

See https://en.wikipedia.org/...s_diseases

With Delta, the PRRA chain became a RRRA chain. What happens if the alanine (A) becomes another arginine (R)? How possible, likely is this, and will that make it more transmissible again?


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #65 posted 10/18/21 5:17am

Vannormal

TweetyV6 said:

Vannormal said:

-

You only feel pressured or pushed when you have no other options available anymore.

It has nothing to do whatsoever with 'discimination' (or 'freedom, 'free will' whatever out of context and constantly misused words)...

We're all trapped here in this fucking pandemic, and it'll last just as long as those who refuse to participate.

-

The stupidity has flushed over the threshold again

Discrimination comes from the latin word Discriminat which means 'distinguish between'.
Now say again that it has nothing to do with discrimination.... rolleyes rolleyes

- I'm fully aware of what Discimination means in case you'd like to know. wink

We're all trapped in this because of weasel politicians and people in their advisory boards who make a shitload of money from this situation.

- Don't start about those who get rich on whatever. It's old.

There are also stupid people who don't believe in vaccinations who get rich on this too.

In the Netherlands that board is called OMT, Outbreak Management Team
ALL of the core members of that team have earned significant amounts of money from this 'pandemic' (which it isn't anymore, it has become endemic), some of them a couple of million Euro's

- Irrelevant. Money is earned everywhere on every occasion, be it any crisis, pademic, endemic, epidemic or whatever total disaster is being caused by nature.

I should even dare to put it stronger. Make that scientists earn more. So they are not dependent.

Same in Germany.
Germany's top adisory virologist, Dr. Drosten has 'invented' the PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 together with a company owned by a good friend of his and where Drosten is a silent share holder of.

- (...)

Allegedly (a Swiss newspaper researched this) he earnes somewhere between €1,50 - €2,50 per sold PCR testkits.
Guess why is is not in favour of lifting restrictions and keep the mandatory testing alive.

(sigh)

-

"From ignorance comes negativity and suspicouness.

They are the poverty of human results driven by fear."

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #66 posted 10/18/21 5:29am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Colin Powell Dies at 84 -...times.com)

Colin Powell Dies at 84

A former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, secretary of state and national security adviser, Mr. Powell died on Monday, his family said.

Oct. 18, 2021, 8:12 a.m. ET

Colin L. Powell, who in four decades of public life served as the nation’s top soldier, diplomat and national security adviser, and whose speech at the United Nations in 2003 helped pave the way for the United States to go to war in Iraq, died on Monday. He was 84.

He died of complications from Covid-19, his family said in a statement. He was fully vaccinated and was treated at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, his family said.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #67 posted 10/18/21 7:09am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'YOU UNO UND YOUR "FINAL" BOOSTER +2 DR FAUCI'

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #68 posted 10/18/21 7:38am

TweetyV6

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

TweetyV6 said:


I advise you to read 'The Transmission of Epidemic Influenza' by RE Hope-Simpson.

It's a well known FACT that virusses that are transmitted by air, which SARS-CoV-2 is, over time mutate to become more virtulent but at the same time less deadly.

Which makes sense when you look at it from the standpoint of the virus.
Both changes implicate a bigger succes of surviving.


Except in this case with the Delta variant, there's no evidence it's become less deadly.



Just look at the data. Significantly more cases in the UK end Dec '02/beginning Jan '21 (peak at 68.192 on 8th Jan 2021 vs. 5163 on 8th April 2020)), about 12x as high as the first peak but deaths (peak @ 1826 on Jan 20th 2021 vs. 1224 on April 21st 2020)

So let's assume the peak infections lead to the peak deaths a couple of days later.
The the first wave peak Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 23,7% (1224/5163)
The 'delta' peak CFR was: 2,6%

So Delta was 12x as much virtulent and 10x less deadly. (in the UK)

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #69 posted 10/18/21 7:55am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Except in this case with the Delta variant, there's no evidence it's become less deadly.



Just look at the data. Significantly more cases in the UK end Dec '02/beginning Jan '21 (peak at 68.192 on 8th Jan 2021 vs. 5163 on 8th April 2020)), about 12x as high as the first peak but deaths (peak @ 1826 on Jan 20th 2021 vs. 1224 on April 21st 2020)

So let's assume the peak infections lead to the peak deaths a couple of days later.
The the first wave peak Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 23,7% (1224/5163)
The 'delta' peak CFR was: 2,6%

So Delta was 12x as much virtulent and 10x less deadly. (in the UK)


Correlation doesn't equal causation. How many more people have been vaccinated since January of this year? Very few people in UK were vaccinated at all, end of last year. So you need to take into account vaccination rate, because we know that vaccination significantly decreases covid mortality. Delta variant is not going to lead to a natural lower mortality rate. It just isn't and noone's claimed it does. If anything, because it produces such a high viral load it's going to be more deadly. https://www.nature.com/ar...21-01986-w

You appear to be confusing 'virulent' with 'contagious/transmissible' again. Virulent means how ill a virus makes you. The more virulent a virus the more it's going to kill people.


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #70 posted 10/18/21 9:41am

TweetyV6

avatar

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #71 posted 10/18/21 9:55am

TweetyV6

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

TweetyV6 said:


Just look at the data. Significantly more cases in the UK end Dec '02/beginning Jan '21 (peak at 68.192 on 8th Jan 2021 vs. 5163 on 8th April 2020)), about 12x as high as the first peak but deaths (peak @ 1826 on Jan 20th 2021 vs. 1224 on April 21st 2020)

So let's assume the peak infections lead to the peak deaths a couple of days later.
The the first wave peak Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 23,7% (1224/5163)
The 'delta' peak CFR was: 2,6%

So Delta was 12x as much virtulent and 10x less deadly. (in the UK)


Correlation doesn't equal causation. How many more people have been vaccinated since January of this year? Very few people in UK were vaccinated at all, end of last year. So you need to take into account vaccination rate, because we know that vaccination significantly decreases covid mortality. Delta variant is not going to lead to a natural lower mortality rate. It just isn't and noone's claimed it does. If anything, because it produces such a high viral load it's going to be more deadly. https://www.nature.com/ar...21-01986-w

You appear to be confusing 'virulent' with 'contagious/transmissible' again. Virulent means how ill a virus makes you. The more virulent a virus the more it's going to kill people.



Ok, messed up with the virtulent. I mean contagious(ness).

In April 2020 there were no vaccines. In Dec/Jan 2021 vaccination rate in the UK still was low (7,9% first shots, 0,7% fully vaccinated - campaign just started) to make any (significant) impact.

And you see that in all countries.
Infection (cases) rose 'sky high' compared to early 2020, but the CFR plunged by the end of 2020/beginning 2021.

Which is not only like Simpson documented, but it's also in line with Farr's law.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #72 posted 10/18/21 10:17am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Tweety, Colin Powell.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #73 posted 10/18/21 10:34am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Correlation doesn't equal causation. How many more people have been vaccinated since January of this year? Very few people in UK were vaccinated at all, end of last year. So you need to take into account vaccination rate, because we know that vaccination significantly decreases covid mortality. Delta variant is not going to lead to a natural lower mortality rate. It just isn't and noone's claimed it does. If anything, because it produces such a high viral load it's going to be more deadly. https://www.nature.com/ar...21-01986-w

You appear to be confusing 'virulent' with 'contagious/transmissible' again. Virulent means how ill a virus makes you. The more virulent a virus the more it's going to kill people.



Ok, messed up with the virtulent. I mean contagious(ness).

In April 2020 there were no vaccines. In Dec/Jan 2021 vaccination rate in the UK still was low (7,9% first shots, 0,7% fully vaccinated - campaign just started) to make any (significant) impact.

And you see that in all countries.
Infection (cases) rose 'sky high' compared to early 2020, but the CFR plunged by the end of 2020/beginning 2021.

Which is not only like Simpson documented, but it's also in line with Farr's law.


But vaccinations changed everything. They reduce CFR, IFR, the percentage of people who get severe illness, and the overall mortality. These reductions have nothing to do with Delta variant.


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #74 posted 10/18/21 10:40am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

As even Sam Harris said better to get it than to not. He even dropped his friendship with Bret Weinstein for his vaccine truthership.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #75 posted 10/18/21 1:08pm

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Except in this case with the Delta variant, there's no evidence it's become less deadly.



Just look at the data. Significantly more cases in the UK end Dec '02/beginning Jan '21 (peak at 68.192 on 8th Jan 2021 vs. 5163 on 8th April 2020)), about 12x as high as the first peak but deaths (peak @ 1826 on Jan 20th 2021 vs. 1224 on April 21st 2020)

So let's assume the peak infections lead to the peak deaths a couple of days later.
The the first wave peak Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 23,7% (1224/5163)
The 'delta' peak CFR was: 2,6%

So Delta was 12x as much virtulent and 10x less deadly. (in the UK)

.

You need to look at the quality of the data and the factual circumstances to understand basic statistics, not just choose data points that support what you want to believe.

.

The figures on the April 2020 peak in the UK are affected by its slow response to properly track and trace infections. The UK CFR (based on a 28 day average and an assumed average 10 day shift between confirming infection and death) plummeted in August 2020 - Once the health care system got a breather and they started to get their act together on identifying infections.

.

If you look at the world data to smooth out local issues. Compare the Dec/Jan 2021 peak (as just before any significant vaccination and after places had time to establish identification, services and treatments) to the August 2021 peak, then this tells a different story. The pre-vaccine peak had a 7 day average cases of 742,000 10/1/2020 and over the next couple of weeks the 28 day CFR jumped from 1.8% to 2.0% (and more as the infections shifted off their peak). The April 2021 peak - the first true delta peak - had a case peak of 829,000 24/4/21 and the 28 day CFR was still around 2%. The August 2021 peak - as more places started to get good vaccine figures peaks at only 663,000 and the 28 day CFR continues to reduce from 1.6% to bottom out at 1.46% at the end of September 2021 with it starting to rise as the North starts to head to winter (only to low 1.5's so far).

.

Delta is significantly more contagious but the change in CFR (once processes to track and treat were established) simply does not show that delta is anywhere near 10x less deathly - the drop in CFR is from a many different things: The number of people vaccinated, the number of people who have had the disease, the knowledge on what to expect if it progresses to dangerous phases and what to do about this, the build up of infrastructure and resources, the shift in the average age of infected people downwards, etc etc. This is all as a result of people who have bought us time by following commonsense covid management processes from socially distancing, masks, vaccines, processes to protect the unvaccinated and, above all, pulling together and caring for others.

[Edited 10/18/21 13:26pm]

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Reply #76 posted 10/21/21 3:52am

TweetyV6

avatar

IanRG said:

TweetyV6 said:


Just look at the data. Significantly more cases in the UK end Dec '02/beginning Jan '21 (peak at 68.192 on 8th Jan 2021 vs. 5163 on 8th April 2020)), about 12x as high as the first peak but deaths (peak @ 1826 on Jan 20th 2021 vs. 1224 on April 21st 2020)

So let's assume the peak infections lead to the peak deaths a couple of days later.
The the first wave peak Case Fatality Rate (CFR) was 23,7% (1224/5163)
The 'delta' peak CFR was: 2,6%

So Delta was 12x as much virtulent and 10x less deadly. (in the UK)

.

You need to look at the quality of the data and the factual circumstances to understand basic statistics, not just choose data points that support what you want to believe.

.

The figures on the April 2020 peak in the UK are affected by its slow response to properly track and trace infections. The UK CFR (based on a 28 day average and an assumed average 10 day shift between confirming infection and death) plummeted in August 2020 - Once the health care system got a breather and they started to get their act together on identifying infections.

.

If you look at the world data to smooth out local issues. Compare the Dec/Jan 2021 peak (as just before any significant vaccination and after places had time to establish identification, services and treatments) to the August 2021 peak, then this tells a different story. The pre-vaccine peak had a 7 day average cases of 742,000 10/1/2020 and over the next couple of weeks the 28 day CFR jumped from 1.8% to 2.0% (and more as the infections shifted off their peak). The April 2021 peak - the first true delta peak - had a case peak of 829,000 24/4/21 and the 28 day CFR was still around 2%. The August 2021 peak - as more places started to get good vaccine figures peaks at only 663,000 and the 28 day CFR continues to reduce from 1.6% to bottom out at 1.46% at the end of September 2021 with it starting to rise as the North starts to head to winter (only to low 1.5's so far).

.

Delta is significantly more contagious but the change in CFR (once processes to track and treat were established) simply does not show that delta is anywhere near 10x less deathly - the drop in CFR is from a many different things: The number of people vaccinated, the number of people who have had the disease, the knowledge on what to expect if it progresses to dangerous phases and what to do about this, the build up of infrastructure and resources, the shift in the average age of infected people downwards, etc etc. This is all as a result of people who have bought us time by following commonsense covid management processes from socially distancing, masks, vaccines, processes to protect the unvaccinated and, above all, pulling together and caring for others.

[Edited 10/18/21 13:26pm]


I've pointed out many times before that data integrity and data accracy regarding these figures is beyond CRAP when you and others were trying to make their point.

Now I do the same (and hey, these are the official released data wink ) and you're disputing those....

Just another indication of how useless this discussion is.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #77 posted 10/21/21 3:53am

TweetyV6

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Tweety, Colin Powell.


He died. Because of cancer.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #78 posted 10/21/21 4:00am

TweetyV6

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

TweetyV6 said:


Ok, messed up with the virtulent. I mean contagious(ness).

In April 2020 there were no vaccines. In Dec/Jan 2021 vaccination rate in the UK still was low (7,9% first shots, 0,7% fully vaccinated - campaign just started) to make any (significant) impact.

And you see that in all countries.
Infection (cases) rose 'sky high' compared to early 2020, but the CFR plunged by the end of 2020/beginning 2021.

Which is not only like Simpson documented, but it's also in line with Farr's law.


But vaccinations changed everything. They reduce CFR, IFR, the percentage of people who get severe illness, and the overall mortality. These reductions have nothing to do with Delta variant.



TOO STUPID TO READ!
Data are from times there was no vaccination and when vaccination programmes were just on it's way and did not have any significant imact yet.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #79 posted 10/21/21 4:39am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:

.

You need to look at the quality of the data and the factual circumstances to understand basic statistics, not just choose data points that support what you want to believe.

.

The figures on the April 2020 peak in the UK are affected by its slow response to properly track and trace infections. The UK CFR (based on a 28 day average and an assumed average 10 day shift between confirming infection and death) plummeted in August 2020 - Once the health care system got a breather and they started to get their act together on identifying infections.

.

If you look at the world data to smooth out local issues. Compare the Dec/Jan 2021 peak (as just before any significant vaccination and after places had time to establish identification, services and treatments) to the August 2021 peak, then this tells a different story. The pre-vaccine peak had a 7 day average cases of 742,000 10/1/2020 and over the next couple of weeks the 28 day CFR jumped from 1.8% to 2.0% (and more as the infections shifted off their peak). The April 2021 peak - the first true delta peak - had a case peak of 829,000 24/4/21 and the 28 day CFR was still around 2%. The August 2021 peak - as more places started to get good vaccine figures peaks at only 663,000 and the 28 day CFR continues to reduce from 1.6% to bottom out at 1.46% at the end of September 2021 with it starting to rise as the North starts to head to winter (only to low 1.5's so far).

.

Delta is significantly more contagious but the change in CFR (once processes to track and treat were established) simply does not show that delta is anywhere near 10x less deathly - the drop in CFR is from a many different things: The number of people vaccinated, the number of people who have had the disease, the knowledge on what to expect if it progresses to dangerous phases and what to do about this, the build up of infrastructure and resources, the shift in the average age of infected people downwards, etc etc. This is all as a result of people who have bought us time by following commonsense covid management processes from socially distancing, masks, vaccines, processes to protect the unvaccinated and, above all, pulling together and caring for others.

[Edited 10/18/21 13:26pm]


I've pointed out many times before that data integrity and data accracy regarding these figures is beyond CRAP when you and others were trying to make their point.

Now I do the same (and hey, these are the official released data wink ) and you're disputing those....

Just another indication of how useless this discussion is.

.

I've pointed out many times before that your data interpretative skills are beyond CRAP when you have done things like this so many times before.

.

Now you do the same and I am disputing your errors again.

.

Just another indication of how people can misuse statistics when they seek to find their pre-determined opinion despite the facts.

.

I addressed the clear errors in your "analysis". You could have defended your errors, but you knew you could not. Your claim that delta is 12x more "virulent" and 10x less deadly is just plain wrong and is based on nube data analysis errors.

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Reply #80 posted 10/21/21 4:54am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


But vaccinations changed everything. They reduce CFR, IFR, the percentage of people who get severe illness, and the overall mortality. These reductions have nothing to do with Delta variant.



TOO STUPID TO READ!
Data are from times there was no vaccination and when vaccination programmes were just on it's way and did not have any significant imact yet.


No. I'm just addressing the previous points you've made about Coronavirus. You seem more in the anti-vax crowd, anti-lockdown crowd. So I was basing my response actually on your narrative through the threads. The elephant in the room, where you're concerned, is that Covid vaccinations do far more good than harm. They've significantly reduced the mortality rate from all Covid variants, including Delta.

Also, about freedoms, your freedom could mean someone else's death from Covid. The anti-lockdown movement are completely wrong from a selfish point of view, as well as in their belief, restrictions are to no avail.


^ But to address your specific point about the supposedly higher CFR in 2021, indicating lower death rate, the UK was barely testing anyone in the early months of 2020. This is what explains the low CFR. That's the elephant in the room your post completely missed. The Delta variant does not lead to lower mortality rate. If anything, the opposite is true, as it's recently been reported in the UK hospitalization rates are twice as high for those catching Delta - higher hospitalization rates always lead to higher death rates.


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #81 posted 10/22/21 4:47am

TweetyV6

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

TweetyV6 said:


TOO STUPID TO READ!
Data are from times there was no vaccination and when vaccination programmes were just on it's way and did not have any significant imact yet.


No. I'm just addressing the previous points you've made about Coronavirus. You seem more in the anti-vax crowd, anti-lockdown crowd.


Anti-vax, no. I'm vaccinated. But I do respect the liberty for each person to decide whether they take the vaccine or not.
Anti lock down: hell yes. These have had close to 0 effect and only cost more life years then they saved.


So I was basing my response actually on your narrative through the threads. The elephant in the room, where you're concerned, is that Covid vaccinations do far more good than harm. They've significantly reduced the mortality rate from all Covid variants, including Delta.

'
You cant say that yet. We're not even 1 year onwards in the vaccination programme.
I've had complications after vaccination, as did (and still does) my wife.

Mortality rate already was low. So low, that all taken 'precautions' we're overkill. IFR is not even twice as high as a severe flu.
Far, far more people die from smoking than from Covid-19. Why don't we ban smoking then?



Also, about freedoms, your freedom could mean someone else's death from Covid.


That's plain and utter BULLSHIT. It's what they want you to believe, to emotionally blackmail people into whatever 'precautions' these idiots think of.

That 'someone else' has his/her OWN responsibility. If you're susceptible to Covid-19 and if you're at risk dying from it, TAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING PRECAUTIONS. By now, everyone shoould know what not to do if they think they might die from Covid-19. It's THEIR OWN DECISION whether or not to take precautions.

The anti-lockdown movement are completely wrong from a selfish point of view, as well as in their belief, restrictions are to no avail.


^ But to address your specific point about the supposedly higher CFR in 2021, indicating lower death rate, the UK was barely testing anyone in the early months of 2020. This is what explains the low CFR. That's the elephant in the room your post completely missed. The Delta variant does not lead to lower mortality rate. If anything, the opposite is true, as it's recently been reported in the UK hospitalization rates are twice as high for those catching Delta - higher hospitalization rates always lead to higher death rates.


This anwer can only come from someone who doesn't understand what RATE means.

Read fucking Hope Simpson. IT'S SCIENCE WHICH SAYS SO!

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #82 posted 10/22/21 6:50am

RichardS

Their own precautions might include needing to stay indoors, not go shopping or to other public events.

In other words, you're not for freedom per se, you're only for your own freedom, and fuck everyone else's.

TweetyV6 said:

That 'someone else' has his/her OWN responsibility. If you're susceptible to Covid-19 and if you're at risk dying from it, TAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING PRECAUTIONS. By now, everyone shoould know what not to do if they think they might die from Covid-19. It's THEIR OWN DECISION whether or not to take precautions.

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Reply #83 posted 10/22/21 9:21am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

.

[Edited 10/22/21 9:22am]

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #84 posted 10/22/21 9:23am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

fortuneandserendipity said:

No. I'm just addressing the previous points you've made about Coronavirus. You seem more in the anti-vax crowd, anti-lockdown crowd.


TweetyV6 said:

Anti-vax, no. I'm vaccinated. But I do respect the liberty for each person to decide whether they take the vaccine or not.
Anti lock down: hell yes. These have had close to 0 effect and only cost more life years then they saved.


Most people including me would disagree with you about lockdowns. Just by shutting down mass crowd events, many lives were saved. What happened in the UK - recognised now as a huge factor behind the spike in cases, early 2020: Cheltenham races went ahead, and that was outdoors where the virus proliferates far less. The less people intermingle, intermix, the less chance for the virus to spread. That's just science. Lockdowns have saved more lives than they've cost.
The evidence, for example, lockdowns caused suicides rates to shoot up is sketchy, and not what some people may think. Obviously, this is likely to differ, country to country, though.



fortuneandserendipity said:
So I was basing my response actually on your narrative through the threads. The elephant in the room, where you're concerned, is that Covid vaccinations do far more good than harm. They've significantly reduced the mortality rate from all Covid variants, including Delta.

TweetyV6 said:
You cant say that yet. We're not even 1 year onwards in the vaccination programme.
I've had complications after vaccination, as did (and still does) my wife.

Mortality rate already was low. So low, that all taken 'precautions' we're overkill. IFR is not even twice as high as a severe flu.
Far, far more people die from smoking than from Covid-19. Why don't we ban smoking then?


Sorry to hear about your complications. This needs reporting to the VAERS database if you haven't done already.

But the point still stands, vaccines do more good than harm. Compare the graphs, 'Daily New Cases' with 'Daily New Deaths' @ https://www.worldometers....ountry/uk/ and explain to me how cases in the last half year have been so high, compared to deaths that are so low?

IFR is at least twice as high for coronavirus as severe flu. You forget many people get the flu, get it mild, maybe because they've had it before, or because their immune systems are strong. Some people may even get it asymptomatically. The real point missing here is, we don't test for the flu. So the flu's IFR is likely to be an overestimate. That, in turn, would make the mortality rate lower than reported.

Smoking is a choice. Catching coronavirus isn't.




fortuneandserendipity said:

Also, about freedoms, your freedom could mean someone else's death from Covid.

TweetyV6 said:

That's plain and utter BULLSHIT. It's what they want you to believe, to emotionally blackmail people into whatever 'precautions' these idiots think of.

That 'someone else' has his/her OWN responsibility. If you're susceptible to Covid-19 and if you're at risk dying from it, TAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING PRECAUTIONS. By now, everyone shoould know what not to do if they think they might die from Covid-19. It's THEIR OWN DECISION whether or not to take precautions.


Hmm, nice terminology borrowed from the pious one™. The problem with your argument is, it assumes that if a vulnerable person shopping for food is wearing a face mask, but someone carrying coronavirus but not really ill with it, is not wearing a face mask, that person can't infect the other person and can't possibly kill them that way. Which to use your term, is a BULLSHIT argument. And if you argue that the 'vulnerable' person shouldn't be doing their own food shopping, then what about the carer, who despite being double-vaxxed can still pass it on to the dependent, if they catch it from someone in the store?



fortuneandserendipity said:
The anti-lockdown movement are completely wrong from a selfish point of view, as well as in their belief, restrictions are to no avail.

^ But to address your specific point about the supposedly higher CFR in 2021, indicating lower death rate, the UK was barely testing anyone in the early months of 2020. This is what explains the low CFR. That's the elephant in the room your post completely missed. The Delta variant does not lead to lower mortality rate. If anything, the opposite is true, as it's recently been reported in the UK hospitalization rates are twice as high for those catching Delta - higher hospitalization rates always lead to higher death rates.

TweetyV6 said:
This anwer can only come from someone who doesn't understand what RATE means.


Read fucking Hope Simpson. IT'S SCIENCE WHICH SAYS SO!


Hope Simpson, or Homer Simpson? You do realize how old chickenpox and the measles are? They go back centuries. The only reason these viruses don't really mutate, is because their surface proteins, were they to mutate, would signal death to the virus. As such, they survive in a relatively unchanged state. Coronavirus, on the other hand, mutates rapidly and has more than doubled its transmission rate in less than a year. Which has probably never happened before. In other words, Coronavirus has effectively (at least partially) rewritten the rules of science, concerning virology. Why should it not be surprising, therefore, that this virus hasn't (so far) become less virulent as it's become more transmissible? Maybe because it came from a lab? Its evolution is darn fast.

Read my previous post again. Delta variant is likely to be deadlier, not less deadly than previous variants. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58354342


[Edited 10/22/21 9:27am]

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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