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Reply #210 posted 07/29/21 9:52am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

djThunderfunk said:

The bottom line, I don't care which political direction authoritariansim is directed from, it' the same damn thing. All authoritarians are fascists.


Vrai. There is far more in common between the hard left and the far right than any uni professor these days is willing to admit. Were Stalin and Mao so different from Hitler? Economically, they weren't black and white different. Nazi Germany were into big government projects. In political terms, they were the same. Contempt for democracy and any form of dissent, no matter how peaceful. Totalitarianism is maybe the most apt word.

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #211 posted 07/29/21 9:57am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

It's a shame the vaccines can kill too. At least there is no 'long covid (vaccine)'. Well, um, there is Shawn Skelton.

Controversial.

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #212 posted 07/29/21 12:17pm

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

The bottom line, I don't care which political direction authoritariansim is directed from, it' the same damn thing. All authoritarians are fascists.

.

This is your made up bottom line.

.

It is wrong because you can be authoritarian without being fascist specifically because of the political direction you came to your authoritarianism from.

.

It is right because once you are either a far-right authoritarian fascist or a far-left authoritarian stalinist (for example) the authoritarian in you means you apply your extremism is very similar ways.

.

Not all authoritarians are fascists or stalinists, but all authoritarian extremists are bad.

.

The bottom line is everyone who parrots the far-right media extremists seeking to spread the propaganda that anyone on the left who stands up to far-right nationalism, racism or in ways to control their violence is fascist is simply factually and historically wrong.

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Reply #213 posted 07/29/21 12:37pm

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

JorisE73 said:


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.



Joris, dan heb je toch iets verkeerd begrepen.

You can't become infecious from the vaccination.
The whole process of building the spike protein by your own cells and then triggering your imune system to build anti-bodies mainly takes place within your bloodstream.

To be infectious, you need a certain viral load in your throat.

What the RIVM said was that vaccinated people can become infectious. Which is true.
When a vaccinated person inhales virus loaded aerosoles and the imune system of the vaccinated person is slow in making anti-bodies, the viral load in the throat can grow beyond the threshold where one becomes infecious.

.

Thanks for clearing the misunderstanding.

.

The same thing can happen regardless of whether your immunity is from a vaccine or having had covid 19 if your immune system is slow in making sufficient anti-bodies (or the ones made are ineffective against the strain), so the viral load can grow beyond the threshold where one becomes infectious. It is always a race between the immune response and growth in the viral load regardless of how it is spread (eg touch or aerosol) and how your body recognises the threat (eg inherited, own developed or from a vaccine). The question is still very much open in how prevalent this is or will be - and this is a key factor in whether it will be endemic in the future.

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Reply #214 posted 07/29/21 12:51pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Funny how some cherry pick when a person has individual rights or not. There are risks to any vaccine. If there were not then there would not be any people with some excuse as to why they can't have it.

If you can't get it take precautions. If you lack faith in it then take precautions.

As wrong as some here were proven to be...I have to laugh at some of the posts.
"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #215 posted 07/29/21 12:54pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:

The bottom line, I don't care which political direction authoritariansim is directed from, it' the same damn thing. All authoritarians are fascists.

.

This is your made up bottom line.

.

It is wrong because you can be authoritarian without being fascist specifically because of the political direction you came to your authoritarianism from.

.

It is right because once you are either a far-right authoritarian fascist or a far-left authoritarian stalinist (for example) the authoritarian in you means you apply your extremism is very similar ways.

.

Not all authoritarians are fascists or stalinists, but all authoritarian extremists are bad.

.

The bottom line is everyone who parrots the far-right media extremists seeking to spread the propaganda that anyone on the left who stands up to far-right nationalism, racism or in ways to control their violence is fascist is simply factually and historically wrong.


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

I'm in the control group.
https://www.britannica.co...trol-group
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Reply #216 posted 07/29/21 1:06pm

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

This is your made up bottom line.

.

It is wrong because you can be authoritarian without being fascist specifically because of the political direction you came to your authoritarianism from.

.

It is right because once you are either a far-right authoritarian fascist or a far-left authoritarian stalinist (for example) the authoritarian in you means you apply your extremism is very similar ways.

.

Not all authoritarians are fascists or stalinists, but all authoritarian extremists are bad.

.

The bottom line is everyone who parrots the far-right media extremists seeking to spread the propaganda that anyone on the left who stands up to far-right nationalism, racism or in ways to control their violence is fascist is simply factually and historically wrong.


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

.

I am opposed to people that are authoritarians - They manipulate their followers to tag other people so they express their hate of others instead of realising just how manipulated they are by their side's propagandists. They encourage people to repeat their rhetoric with things like it is the enemy who are the fascists, not us.

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Reply #217 posted 07/29/21 1:46pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

.

I am opposed to people that are authoritarians - They manipulate their followers to tag other people so they express their hate of others instead of realising just how manipulated they are by their side's propagandists. They encourage people to repeat their rhetoric with things like it is the enemy who are the fascists, not us.

you opposed them unless you agree with them. it is the ones trying to mandate the shots are trying to manipulate their followers.

To snitch on rule breakers.

To silence any that say anything out of line.

Is it seems to be the ones that want to force shots and masks and all that are the ones that excuse when their people's statements which have been shown to be false is them learning NEW information... YET give no credit to those that we saying it from the start.



"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #218 posted 07/29/21 2:25pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

IanRG said:

.

I am opposed to people that are authoritarians - They manipulate their followers to tag other people so they express their hate of others instead of realising just how manipulated they are by their side's propagandists. They encourage people to repeat their rhetoric with things like it is the enemy who are the fascists, not us.

you opposed them unless you agree with them. it is the ones trying to mandate the shots are trying to manipulate their followers.

To snitch on rule breakers.

To silence any that say anything out of line.

Is it seems to be the ones that want to force shots and masks and all that are the ones that excuse when their people's statements which have been shown to be false is them learning NEW information... YET give no credit to those that we saying it from the start.



.

This is a response full of rhetoric and assumptions but no actual substance. You have not been missed.

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No, I oppose authoritarians and those convinced to support them by propaganda and assumptions.

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I have enough intelligence to work out that this is not a choice between just absolute authoritarianism and total anarchy. The real world exists in the middle. The rules of law and commonsense properly apply between the two, not at the extremes.

.

Snitching on rule breakers if they kill someone or rob a bank etc is not being authoritarian.

.

Discussing the errors made by far right extremists is not silencing anyone - it is discussing it.

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Reply #219 posted 07/29/21 2:40pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

IanRG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you opposed them unless you agree with them. it is the ones trying to mandate the shots are trying to manipulate their followers.

To snitch on rule breakers.

To silence any that say anything out of line.

Is it seems to be the ones that want to force shots and masks and all that are the ones that excuse when their people's statements which have been shown to be false is them learning NEW information... YET give no credit to those that we saying it from the start.



.

This is a response full of rhetoric and assumptions but no actual substance. You have not been missed.

.

No, I oppose authoritarians and those convinced to support them by propaganda and assumptions.

.

I have enough intelligence to work out that this is not a choice between just absolute authoritarianism and total anarchy. The real world exists in the middle. The rules of law and commonsense properly apply between the two, not at the extremes.

.

Snitching on rule breakers if they kill someone or rob a bank etc is not being authoritarian.

.

Discussing the errors made by far right extremists is not silencing anyone - it is discussing it.

double standards are a virus or are they bacteria?

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #220 posted 07/29/21 2:59pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

IanRG said:

.

This is a response full of rhetoric and assumptions but no actual substance. You have not been missed.

.

No, I oppose authoritarians and those convinced to support them by propaganda and assumptions.

.

I have enough intelligence to work out that this is not a choice between just absolute authoritarianism and total anarchy. The real world exists in the middle. The rules of law and commonsense properly apply between the two, not at the extremes.

.

Snitching on rule breakers if they kill someone or rob a bank etc is not being authoritarian.

.

Discussing the errors made by far right extremists is not silencing anyone - it is discussing it.

double standards are a virus or are they bacteria?

.

Ah, so you are back to bringing up the lie you made about me from long ago?

.

There is no double standard.

.

It was silly of you to bring up your previous embarrasing errors when you had the opportunity to let them slip with your absenses. I never said that the SARS-CoV-2 was a bacteria.

.

I compared the spread of a disease through a population to the spread of bacteria in a petri dish. It was an analogy between people with a disease and bacteria. I am sorry to see that you have not overcome your language difficulties in your time away. Look up analogy and people and see if either of these means virus.

[Edited 7/29/21 15:02pm]

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Reply #221 posted 07/29/21 3:04pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

People suffering bad effects from the vaccines are having their videos taken down by the big tech companies. Which is essentially end of uncurtailed freedom of speech. Disgusting. confused


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #222 posted 07/29/21 3:19pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

This is your made up bottom line.

.

It is wrong because you can be authoritarian without being fascist specifically because of the political direction you came to your authoritarianism from.

.

It is right because once you are either a far-right authoritarian fascist or a far-left authoritarian stalinist (for example) the authoritarian in you means you apply your extremism is very similar ways.

.

Not all authoritarians are fascists or stalinists, but all authoritarian extremists are bad.

.

The bottom line is everyone who parrots the far-right media extremists seeking to spread the propaganda that anyone on the left who stands up to far-right nationalism, racism or in ways to control their violence is fascist is simply factually and historically wrong.


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

Are you trying to say IanRG is an authoritarian? hmmm

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #223 posted 07/29/21 3:23pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

The UK yellow card scheme shows that 1,490 people have died as a result of the vaccination so far. 1,490 eek


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Life Matters
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Reply #224 posted 07/29/21 3:51pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

djThunderfunk said:


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

Are you trying to say IanRG is an authoritarian? hmmm

Ian said so himself said people should not have an option to be vaccanated or not.

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #225 posted 07/29/21 4:07pm

EmmaMcG

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:

The UK yellow card scheme shows that 1,490 people have died as a result of the vaccination so far. 1,490 eek


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting



Almost 130,000 people have died from COVID-19 in the UK so far.

Plus, it's estimated that the vaccine has prevented 60,000 deaths in the UK according to the deputy chief medical officer.


No vaccine in the world is completely without an element of risk. But it's far safer to have the vaccine than to be exposed to Covid with no vaccination.


I understand your (and others) distrust of your government and I know that it's extremely difficult to find a news source that's actually, genuinely and completely unbiased from a political standpoint. But you can't argue with facts. We can all go hunting for figures that back up our preconceived notions but if you take a step back and look at the facts (REAL facts) you'd see that the vaccine is by far the lesser of two "evils".
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Reply #226 posted 07/29/21 4:18pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

No matter how low the risk of the vaccine is it is still a risk. Get a shot or don't get a shot. If you do not or can not get a shot then take whatever steps you feel like you need to take. Sames goes with your opinion of their effectiveness.

but there is no argument to be made that is not authoritarian to compel anyone to get one or to show if they have or not.

Irony how for some they use the double standard of My body my choice unless they think it should not be.

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #227 posted 07/29/21 4:48pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

djThunderfunk said:


Okay you convinced me... you're JUST an authoritarian. I fucking hate authoritarians.

Are you trying to say IanRG is an authoritarian? hmmm


He certainly supports and approves of those that are, so yes, that's enough.

I'm in the control group.
https://www.britannica.co...trol-group
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Reply #228 posted 07/29/21 4:49pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Are you trying to say IanRG is an authoritarian? hmmm

Ian said so himself said people should not have an option to be vaccanated or not.


Those that support authoritarianism are as guilty as those that enforce it.


I'm in the control group.
https://www.britannica.co...trol-group
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Reply #229 posted 07/29/21 4:49pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

CherryMoon57 said:

The UK yellow card scheme shows that 1,490 people have died as a result of the vaccination so far. 1,490 eek


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Almost 130,000 people have died from COVID-19 in the UK so far. Plus, it's estimated that the vaccine has prevented 60,000 deaths in the UK according to the deputy chief medical officer. No vaccine in the world is completely without an element of risk. But it's far safer to have the vaccine than to be exposed to Covid with no vaccination. I understand your (and others) distrust of your government and I know that it's extremely difficult to find a news source that's actually, genuinely and completely unbiased from a political standpoint. But you can't argue with facts. We can all go hunting for figures that back up our preconceived notions but if you take a step back and look at the facts (REAL facts) you'd see that the vaccine is by far the lesser of two "evils".

I've no preconceptions... I'm just genuinely shocked and saddened to learn so many died just by getting the jab. Did you know this already? These are the officially published governmental figures btw. And yes, you are right, I kind of had to 'hunt' to find them as they were well hidden at the bottom of different reports (I also had to add them up myself), and the link to these was at the bottom of a long page, so it wasn't a straightforward thing to do... I know the virus has sadly claimed many lives, but didn't these other lives matter too? Why shouldn't we mention them?



[Edited 7/29/21 16:58pm]

Life Matters
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Reply #230 posted 07/29/21 5:54pm

PennyPurple

avatar

IanRG said:

JorisE73 said:


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.

.

Vaccines do not make you infectious spreaders of covid 19 at all. Try googling it

No the sure don't. Covid vaccine doesn't have the live virus in it.

You can't be infected by a person who got the vax, and you didn't (from the vaccine). That's not true Joris.

U.S.A.
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Reply #231 posted 07/29/21 5:58pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

PennyPurple said:

IanRG said:

.

Vaccines do not make you infectious spreaders of covid 19 at all. Try googling it

No the sure don't. Covid vaccine doesn't have the live virus in it.

You can't be infected by a person who got the vax, and you didn't (from the vaccine). That's not true Joris.

Huh Wait a moment... it is possable to be vacanated get the virus and then spread it.

So there is that issue. we can not just make up false blanket statments

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #232 posted 07/29/21 6:14pm

PennyPurple

avatar

I don't know why everyone is so frickin worried about mandating shots...they've done that for at least 55+ years. Before we could be enrolled in school, we had to have our shots. I remember the health department coming to my elementary school, and all of us had to stand in line to get some of the vaccinations.


Heck I even had to show my shot records and get catch-up shots for my employer, once I was hired. The flu shot is required where I work also, and we have to show them proof that we received it.


If you went to school in the USA chances are you were mandated to get vaccines.

U.S.A.
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Reply #233 posted 07/29/21 6:15pm

PennyPurple

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

People suffering bad effects from the vaccines are having their videos taken down by the big tech companies. Which is essentially end of uncurtailed freedom of speech. Disgusting. confused


That is not true.

Stop spreading falsehoods.

U.S.A.
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Reply #234 posted 07/29/21 6:18pm

PennyPurple

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

PennyPurple said:

No the sure don't. Covid vaccine doesn't have the live virus in it.

You can't be infected by a person who got the vax, and you didn't (from the vaccine). That's not true Joris.

Huh Wait a moment... it is possable to be vacanated get the virus and then spread it.

So there is that issue. we can not just make up false blanket statments

You don't understand what I said.


If I get the vaccine, and my spouse doesn't I can't give covid to my spouse from just getting the vaccine.

U.S.A.
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Reply #235 posted 07/29/21 6:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

PennyPurple said:

I don't know why everyone is so frickin worried about mandating shots...they've done that for at least 55+ years. Before we could be enrolled in school, we had to have our shots. I remember the health department coming to my elementary school, and all of us had to stand in line to get some of the vaccinations.


Heck I even had to show my shot records and get catch-up shots for my employer, once I was hired. The flu shot is required where I work also, and we have to show them proof that we received it.


If you went to school in the USA chances are you were mandated to get vaccines.

and I do not know why anyone is so worried if some people choose to not get a shot... what shots have been required? Not where I live... are you sure your kids had to have them? many states offer them.

and wait by your logic why change any laws to give people more freedoms, rights, or liberties?


as of now most states have exemptions for kids in public schools... a few do not respect individual freedoms...

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #236 posted 07/29/21 6:28pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

PennyPurple said:

I don't know why everyone is so frickin worried about mandating shots...they've done that for at least 55+ years. Before we could be enrolled in school, we had to have our shots. I remember the health department coming to my elementary school, and all of us had to stand in line to get some of the vaccinations.


Heck I even had to show my shot records and get catch-up shots for my employer, once I was hired. The flu shot is required where I work also, and we have to show them proof that we received it.


If you went to school in the USA chances are you were mandated to get vaccines.


There have always been exemptions. Proponents of covid shot mandates do not want to allow for any exemptions. Most of you don't even believe there are legitimate exemptions for wearing a mask.

I'm in the control group.
https://www.britannica.co...trol-group
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Reply #237 posted 07/29/21 6:29pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

PennyPurple said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

People suffering bad effects from the vaccines are having their videos taken down by the big tech companies. Which is essentially end of uncurtailed freedom of speech. Disgusting. confused


That is not true.

Stop spreading falsehoods.


Bullshit!! Facebook has DEFINITELY been taking them down.

I'm in the control group.
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Reply #238 posted 07/29/21 6:32pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

PennyPurple said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

People suffering bad effects from the vaccines are having their videos taken down by the big tech companies. Which is essentially end of uncurtailed freedom of speech. Disgusting. confused


That is not true.

Stop spreading falsehoods.

so you are saying that not a single person had any adverse *that means bad* side affects? (I remember one not so bright orger who insisted that if there are ANY bad side effects--no matter how slight and no matter how good the drug is otherwise... that the FDA would never ever approve it and that the FDA never ever once weighed to benefits from the side effects to make a decision.

"So the best way to get something done, if you, if you hold near and dear to that, you uh um, like to be able uh...Anyway." - Joe Biden
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Reply #239 posted 07/29/21 6:38pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

PennyPurple said:

That is not true.

Stop spreading falsehoods.

so you are saying that not a single person had any adverse *that means bad* side affects? (I remember one not so bright orger who insisted that if there are ANY bad side effects--no matter how slight and no matter how good the drug is otherwise... that the FDA would never ever approve it and that the FDA never ever once weighed to benefits from the side effects to make a decision.


The vaccine for the 1976 swine flu caused over 500 people to develop Guillain-Barre syndrome and 25 deaths. That was enough to pull it off the market.

Compared to the complications and deaths resulting from the covid shots, that's nothing.

https://www.latimes.com/a...story.html




[Edited 7/29/21 18:39pm]

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